Chris Anderson: Shep, thank you so much for coming. I think your plane landed literally two hours ago in Vancouver. Such a treat to have you. So, talk us through how do you get from Einstein's equation to a black hole?
克里斯安德森:謝普, 非常謝謝你來訪。 你的飛機應該是兩小時前 才在溫哥華降落的吧。 你能來真的太好了。 跟我們談談你是如何 從愛因斯坦的方程式走到黑洞的?
Sheperd Doeleman: Over 100 years ago, Einstein came up with this geometric theory of gravity which deforms space-time. So, matter deforms space-time, and then space-time tells matter in turn how to move around it. And you can get enough matter into a small enough region that it punctures space-time, and that even light can't escape, the force of gravity keeps even light inside.
謝普多勒曼:至少一百年前, 愛因斯坦提出了這個 關於重力的幾何理論, 它會讓空間-時間變形。 物質會讓空間-時間變形, 接著換成空間-時間告訴物質 要如何在它周圍移動。 當你把足夠的物質 放入一個足夠小的區域中, 它會打穿空間-時間, 即使光也無法逃脫, 重力會讓光被留在裡面。
CA: And so, before that, the reason the Earth moves around the Sun is not because the Sun is pulling the Earth as we think, but it's literally changed the shape of space so that we just sort of fall around the Sun.
克:所以,在那之前, 地球繞行太陽的原因, 並不是我們所想的那樣, 太陽在拉著地球, 而是它改變了空間的形狀, 所以我們只算是掉到太陽的周圍。
SD: Exactly, the geometry of space-time tells the Earth how to move around the Sun. You're almost seeing a black hole puncture through space-time, and when it goes so deeply in, then there's a point at which light orbits the black hole.
謝:沒錯,空間-時間的幾何學 告訴地球要如何在太陽周圍移動。 你幾乎看見一個黑洞 打穿了空間-時間, 當非常深入時, 會到達一個點,在這個點, 光會繞著黑洞運轉。
CA: And so that's, I guess, is what's happening here. This is not an image, this is a computer simulation of what we always thought, like, the event horizon around the black hole.
克:所以,我猜, 畫面上的狀況就是如此。 這不是影像, 這是把我們過去的想法 用電腦模擬出來, 黑洞周圍的事相面 (event horizon)。
SD: Until last week, we had no idea what a black hole really looked like. The best we could do were simulations like this in supercomputers, but even here you see this ring of light, which is the orbit of photons. That's where photons literally move around the black hole, and around that is this hot gas that's drawn to the black hole, and it's hot because of friction. All this gas is trying to get into a very small volume, so it heats up.
謝:直到上週,我們都還不知道 黑洞看起來是什麼樣子的。 用超級電腦來做這類模擬, 已經是我們所能做到最好的了, 但,就算在這裡,可以看見這光環, 這是光子的軌道。 也就是光子繞著黑洞移動的位置, 周圍則是被吸向黑洞的熱氣, 之所以是熱的,是因為磨擦。 所有這些氣體都試著擠進 極小的體積中,溫度變會上升。
CA: A few years ago, you embarked on this mission to try and actually image one of these things. And I guess you took -- you focused on this galaxy way out there. Tell us about this galaxy.
克:幾年前,你開始了這項任務, 試著真的把黑洞畫出來。 我想你把—— 你把焦點放在這個銀河系。 跟我們談談這銀河。
SD: This is the galaxy -- we're going to zoom into the galaxy M87, it's 55 million light-years away.
謝:這個銀河系—— 我們要放大看的是 M87 銀河系, 它位于 5500 萬光年之外。
CA: Fifty-five million.
克:5500 萬。
SD: Which is a long way. And at its heart, there's a six-and-a-half-billion- solar-mass black hole. That's hard for us to really fathom, right? Six and a half billion suns compressed into a single point. And it's governing some of the energetics of the center of this galaxy.
謝:非常的遠。 在它的心臟地帶, 有一個黑洞, 質量為 65 億太陽質量。 我們很難揣摸,對吧? 65 億太陽質量壓縮到單一個點中。 它會影響到這個銀河系 中心的一些能量學。
CA: But even though that thing is so huge, because it's so far away, to actually dream of getting an image of it, that's incredibly hard. The resolution would be incredible that you need.
克:但,雖然它很巨大, 因為太實在太遠了, 無法想像要如何取得它的影像, 那太困難了。 需要的解析度會非常高。
SD: Black holes are the smallest objects in the known universe. But they have these outsize effects on whole galaxies. But to see one, you would need to build a telescope as large as the Earth, because the black hole that we're looking at gives off copious radio waves. It's emitting all the time.
謝:就我們所知, 黑洞是宇宙中最小的物體。 但它們對於整個銀河 有特別大的影響。 但若要看見黑洞, 你得要打造一個 和地球一樣大的望遠鏡。 因為我們看到的這個黑洞, 會放出大量無線電波。 它隨時都在釋放。
CA: And that's exactly what you did.
克:那正是你所做的。
SD: Exactly. What you're seeing here is we used telescopes all around the world, we synchronized them perfectly with atomic clocks, so they received the light waves from this black hole, and then we stitched all of that data together to make an image.
謝:沒錯。各位在這裡看到的, 是我們借用全世界的望遠鏡, 用原子鐘將它們做到完美的同步, 讓它們接收來自這個黑洞的光波, 我們再把所有的資料縫起來, 做出一張影像。
CA: To do that the weather had to be right in all of those locations at the same time, so you could actually get a clear view.
克:要做到這件事, 那些地點全部同時都要有好天氣, 才能有清晰的視野。
SD: We had to get lucky in a lot of different ways. And sometimes, it's better to be lucky than good. In this case, we were both, I like to think. But light had to come from the black hole. It had to come through intergalactic space, through the Earth's atmosphere, where water vapor can absorb it, and everything worked out perfectly, the size of the Earth at that wavelength of light, one millimeter wavelength, was just right to resolve that black hole, 55 million light-years away. The universe was telling us what to do.
謝:在許多方面 我們都需要很好的運氣。 有時,功力高不如運氣好。 在這個情況中, 我傾向認為我們兩者兼備。 但光必須要是來自黑洞的。 它必須要通過銀河間的空間, 通過地球的大氣, 大氣中的水汽可能會吸收它, 而一切都很順利圓滿, 地球的尺寸, 搭配那樣的光波波長, 一毫米的波長, 就剛好是對的組合,可以解析 5500 萬光年之外的那個黑洞。 宇宙在告訴我們該怎麼做。
CA: So you started capturing huge amounts of data. I think this is like half the data from just one telescope.
克:所以你開始 捕捉極大量的資料。 這應該只是一台望遠鏡 收集到的一半資料吧。
SD: Yeah, this is one of the members of our team, Lindy Blackburn, and he's sitting with half the data recorded at the Large Millimeter Telescope, which is atop a 15,000-foot mountain in Mexico. And what he's holding there is about half a petabyte. Which, to put it in terms that we might understand, it's about 5,000 people's lifetime selfie budget.
謝:是的,這位是我們的 團隊成員林迪布萊克本, 他身邊的資料是 大型毫米波望遠鏡 記錄下來的一半資料, 這台望遠鏡位在墨西哥 一萬五千英呎的高山上。 他身邊的資料量大約是五百兆位元 (500 000 000 000 000 位元)。 用大家能懂的用語來說, 大概是五千個人自拍 一輩子的預算量。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
CA: It's a lot of data. So this was all shipped, you couldn't send this over the internet. All this data was shipped to one place and the massive computer effort began to try and analyze it. And you didn't really know what you were going to see coming out of this.
克:好大的資料量。 所以這要用運送的, 不能透過網路來傳輸。 所有這些資料被運送到一個地方, 再用電腦花非常大的努力 來試圖分析這些資料。 且你當時並不知道 你會從這些資料中看到什麼。
SD: The way this technique works that we used -- imagine taking an optical mirror and smashing it and putting all the shards in different places. The way a normal mirror works is the light rays bounce off the surface, which is perfect, and they focus in a certain point at the same time. We take all these recordings, and with atomic clock precision we align them perfectly, later in a supercomputer. And we recreate kind of an Earth-sized lens. And the only way to do that is to bring the data back by plane. You can't beat the bandwidth of a 747 filled with hard discs.
謝:我們使用的 這種技術的運作方式—— 想像把一個光學反射鏡打破, 把所有的碎片放到不同的地方。 正常鏡子的運作方式是: 光線在鏡面上完美地反彈, 所有光線同時聚焦在同一個點上。 我們取得所有這些記錄, 再加上原子時鐘的精準度, 後續便能在超級電腦上 把資料完美地對應起來。 我們便重新創造出了 地球尺寸的鏡片。 唯一行得通的方式就是 用飛機把資料帶回來。 裝滿硬碟的 747 是最大的頻寬。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
CA: And so, I guess a few weeks or a few months ago, on a computer screen somewhere, this started to come into view. This moment.
克:我猜幾週或幾個月前, 在某處的電腦螢幕上, 這樣的影像開始出現了。 這個時刻。
SD: Well, it took a long time.
謝:花了很長的時間。
CA: I mean, look at this. That was it. That was the first image.
克:我是指,看看它。 這就是它。 第一張影像。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
So tell us what we're really looking at there.
告訴我們,我們在看的是什麼。
SD: I still love it.
謝:我仍然很愛它。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
So what you're seeing is that last orbit of photons. You're seeing Einstein's geometry laid bare. The puncture in space-time is so deep that light moves around in orbit, so that light behind the black hole, as I think we'll see soon, moves around and comes to us on these parallel lines at exactly that orbit. It turns out, that orbit is the square root of 27 times just a handful of fundamental constants. It's extraordinary when you think about it.
各位看到的,是光子最後的軌道。 各位看到的是赤裸裸的 愛因斯坦幾何學。 打穿空間-時間的 這個洞非常之深, 以致於光繞著它移動,形成軌道, 我想我們很快就能看到 在黑洞後面的光 一邊移動一邊朝我們行進, 且正是沿著那軌道上的平行線。 結果發現那軌道是 27 開根號, 乘以少數幾個基本常數。 如果仔細想想, 這是很不可思議的。
CA: When ... In my head, initially, when I thought of black holes, I'm thinking that is the event horizon, there's lots of matter and light whirling around in that shape. But it's actually more complicated than that. Well, talk us through this animation, because it's light being lensed around it.
克:當…… 一開始,我在腦海中想像黑洞時, 我在想的是,那是事相面, 那是很多物質和光, 以那種形狀繞著轉。 但其實是更複雜的。 帶我們了解這段動畫, 因為拍攝到的是它周圍的光。
SD: You'll see here that some light from behind it gets lensed, and some light does a loop-the-loop around the entire orbit of the black hole. But when you get enough light from all this hot gas swirling around the black hole, then you wind up seeing all of these light rays come together on this screen, which is a stand-in for where you and I are. And you see the definition of this ring begin to come into shape. And that's what Einstein predicted over 100 years ago.
謝:你們在這裡看到的, 是它背後的光被拍攝到, 還有一些光是繞圈的方式 繞著整個黑洞在轉。 但如果有足夠的光, 來自繞著黑洞打轉的熱氣, 那麼你就能夠看到這些光線, 在螢幕上顯示出來, 這是你我所在的視角。 會看到這個環的輪廓開始成形。 至少一百年前, 愛因斯坦就已經預測到了。
CA: Yeah, that is amazing. So tell us more about what we're actually looking at here. First of all, why is part of it brighter than the rest?
克:是的,那很了不起。 多跟我們說一些, 我們看到的是什麼。 首先,為什麼有些部分 比其他部分明亮?
SD: So what's happening is that the black hole is spinning. And you wind up with some of the gas moving towards us below and receding from us on the top. And just as the train whistle has a higher pitch when it's coming towards you, there's more energy from the gas coming towards us than going away from us. You see the bottom part brighter because the light is actually being boosted in our direction.
謝:這裡發生的狀況是黑洞在旋轉。 結果就是,底部的 一些氣體會朝向我們移動, 上面的氣體則是在遠離我們。 就像火車在靠近你的時候 汽笛聲的音高較高, 相對的,氣體朝我們而來時的能量 會比遠離我們時更高。 下面看起來比較亮, 是因為光被朝向我們的方向推進。
CA: And how physically big is that?
克:它實體上有多大?
SD: Our entire solar system would fit well within that dark region. And if I may, that dark region is the signature of the event horizon. The reason we don't see light from there, is that the light that would come to us from that place was swallowed by the event horizon. So that -- that's it.
謝:我們的整個太陽系可以塞進 那黑色區域。 可以讓我說一句嗎, 黑色區域其實就是事相面的特徵。 我們看不到那個區域的光, 是因為從那個區域朝我們過來的光 都被事相面吞噬了。 所以,就這樣。
CA: And so when we think of a black hole, you think of these huge rays jetting out of it, which are pointed directly in our direction. Why don't we see them?
克:想到黑洞時, 會想到這些大型射線從黑洞噴出, 直接指向我們的方向。 為什麼我們看不到?
SD: This is a very powerful black hole. Not by universal standards, it's still powerful, and from the north and south poles of this black hole we think that jets are coming. Now, we're too close to really see all the jet structure, but it's the base of those jets that are illuminating the space-time. And that's what's being bent around the black hole.
謝:這是一個非常強大的黑洞。 不是根據通用標準, 它仍然非常強大, 我們認為,噴流來自 這個黑洞的北極和南極。 我們太靠近了, 無法看到整個噴流的結構, 但,照亮空間-時間的, 就是這些噴流的基部。 而它在黑洞的附近會被彎曲。
CA: And if you were in a spaceship whirling around that thing somehow, how long would it take to actually go around it?
克:如果我們在太空船中, 以某種方式繞行那東西, 要花多長的時間才能繞過它?
SD: First, I would give anything to be in that spaceship.
謝:首先,我會 不計代價上那台太空船。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
Sign me up. There’s something called the -- if I can get wonky for one moment -- the innermost stable circular orbit, that's the innermost orbit at which matter can move around a black hole before it spirals in. And for this black hole, it's going to be between three days and about a month.
我要報名。 有樣東西叫做—— 讓我偏離中心一下—— 最內層的穩定圓形軌道 是最內層的軌道, 物質在被旋進黑洞之前 可以在這個軌道上繞著黑洞移動。 就這個黑洞來說, 可能要三天到一個月的時間。
CA: It's so powerful, it's weirdly slow at one level. I mean, you wouldn't even notice falling into that event horizon if you were there.
克:它太強大了, 在一個層面上,它慢得很奇怪。 我是指,如果你人在那裡, 你甚至不會注意到 你正在落入事相面。
SD: So you may have heard of "spaghettification," where you fall into a black hole and the gravitational field on your feet is much stronger than on your head, so you're ripped apart. This black hole is so big that you're not going to become a spaghetti noodle. You're just going to drift right through that event horizon.
謝:你可能聽過「麵條化」, 當你在落入黑洞時, 你的腳所承受的重力場 比你的頭還要強太多, 所以你被扯斷了。 這個黑洞太大了, 你不會變成義大利麵條。 你會直接漂過事相面。
CA: So, it's like a giant tornado. When Dorothy was whipped by a tornado, she ended up in Oz. Where do you end up if you fall into a black hole?
克:所以,它就像巨型的龍捲風。 桃樂絲被龍捲風掃走, 最後到了奧茲國。 如果你掉進黑洞,最後會到哪裡?
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
SD: Vancouver.
謝:溫哥華。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
CA: Oh, my God.
克:喔,我的天。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
It's the red circle, that's terrifying. No, really.
這就是那個紅色的圓圈,好嚇人。 不,是說真的。
SD: Black holes really are the central mystery of our age, because that's where the quantum world and the gravitational world come together. What's inside is a singularity. And that's where all the forces become unified, because gravity finally is strong enough to compete with all the other forces. But it's hidden from us, the universe has cloaked it in the ultimate invisibility cloak. So we don't know what happens in there.
謝:黑洞真的是我們 這個時代的重要謎題, 因為那是量子世界 和重力世界交集的地方。 黑洞裡面有一個奇異點。 所有的力量都在那裡統一, 因為重力終於強到 足以和其他力量競爭。 但我們看不見, 宇宙用隱形斗篷把它蓋住了。 所以我們不知道那裡發生什麼事。
CA: So there's a smaller one of these in our own galaxy. Can we go back to our own beautiful galaxy? This is the Milky Way, this is home. And somewhere in the middle of that there's another one, which you're trying to find as well.
克:在我們自己的銀河系中 有一個比較小的黑洞。 我們能不能回到 我們自己的美麗銀河系? 這個銀河系是我們的家園。 這之間的某處有另一個黑洞, 你也在試著找到它。 謝:我們已經知道它在那裡, 我們已經取得它的資料。
SD: We already know it's there, and we've already taken data on it. And we're working on those data right now. So we hope to have something in the near future, I can't say when.
我們正在處理那些資料。 我們希望不久的將來 能有所成果,我不敢說何時。
CA: It's way closer but also a lot smaller, maybe the similar kind of size to what we saw?
克:它近很多,但也小很多, 也許大小和我們剛看到的差不多?
SD: Right. So it turns out that the black hole in M87, that we saw before, is six and a half billion solar masses. But it's so far away that it appears a certain size. The black hole in the center of our galaxy is a thousand times less massive, but also a thousand times closer. So it looks the same angular size on the sky.
謝:對。結果發現, M87 的那個黑洞, 我們剛看到的那個, 是 65 億太陽質量。 但它太遠了,以致於 看起來是某個大小。 我們的銀河系中間的黑洞, 在質量上小了一千倍, 但也近了一千倍。 所以在天空中看起來的 角度大小是相同的。
CA: Finally, I guess, a nod to a remarkable group of people. Who are these guys?
克:最後,我想要對 這群了不起的人致敬。 這些人是誰?
SD: So these are only some of the team. We marveled at the resonance that this image has had. If you told me that it would be above the fold in all of these newspapers, I'm not sure I would have believed you, but it was. Because this is a great mystery, and it's inspiring for us, and I hope it's inspiring to everyone. But the more important thing is that this is just a small number of the team. We're 200 people strong with 60 institutes and 20 countries and regions. If you want to build a global telescope you need a global team. And this technique that we use of linking telescopes around the world kind of effortlessly sidesteps some of the issues that divide us. And as scientists, we naturally come together to do something like this.
謝:他們是團隊的其中一些人。 這張影像產生的迴響 讓我們感到驚嘆。 如果你告訴我, 它會在所有這些報紙上, 我不確定我會相信你, 但確實發生了。 因為這是個偉大的謎, 它激勵了我們, 我希望它也能激勵所有人。 但,更重要的是, 這些人只是團隊的一小部分。 我們有兩百個成員,六十個機構 和二十個國家及地區。 如果你要打造一台全球望遠鏡, 你就需要一個全球團隊。 我們把世界各地的望遠鏡 連結起來所用的技術 毫不費力地避開了 會分裂我們的一些議題。 身為科學家,我們很自然就會 聯手一起做像這樣的事。
CA: Wow, boy, that's inspiring for our whole team this week. Shep, thank you so much for what you did and for coming here.
克:哇,天,這對我們本週的 整個團隊都很有激勵作用。 謝普,謝謝你所做的一切, 也謝謝你的來訪。
SD: Thank you.
謝:謝謝你。
(Applause)
(掌聲)