Now this is a very un-TED-like thing to do, but let's kick off the afternoon with a message from a mystery sponsor.
Ovo nije stvar koja nalikuje TED-u ali hajde da započnemo ovo popodne porukom misterioznog sponzora.
Anonymous: Dear Fox News, it has come to our unfortunate attention that both the name and nature of Anonymous has been ravaged. We are everyone. We are no one. We are anonymous. We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. We are but the base of chaos.
Anonimus: Drage Foks vesti na naše razočarenje, došli smo do saznanja da su ime i priroda Anonimusa i priroda Anonimusa izvrgnuti ruglu. Mi smo svako i mi smo niko. Mi smo anonimni. Mi smo legija. Mi ne opraštamo. Mi ne zaboravljamo. Mi smo temelj haosa.
Misha Glenny: Anonymous, ladies and gentlemen -- a sophisticated group of politically motivated hackers who have emerged in 2011. And they're pretty scary. You never know when they're going to attack next, who or what the consequences will be. But interestingly, they have a sense of humor. These guys hacked into Fox News' Twitter account to announce President Obama's assassination. Now you can imagine the panic that would have generated in the newsroom at Fox. "What do we do now? Put on a black armband, or crack open the champagne?" (Laughter) And of course, who could escape the irony of a member of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. being a victim of hacking for a change.
Miša Gleni: Anonimus, dame i gospodo, je sofisticirana grupa politički motivisanih hakera koja se uzdigla 2011. Prilično su strašni. Nikada ne znate kada ili koga će sledeći put da napadnu, i kakve će posledice biti. Međutim, ono što je zanimljivo, jeste da imaju smisla za humor. Ovi momci su hakovali Tviter profil Foks vesti da najave atentat na predsednika Obamu. Možete da zamislite kakvu je to paniku izazvalo u redakciji Foksa. "Šta ćemo sada da radimo? Hoćemo li obući crninu ili otvoriti šampanjac?" (Smeh) Naravno, kome može da promakne ironija da je, za promenu, član Njuz korporacije Ruperta Murdoka bio žrtva hakerskog napada.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
(Applause)
(Aplauz)
Sometimes you turn on the news and you say, "Is there anyone left to hack?" Sony Playstation Network -- done, the government of Turkey -- tick, Britain's Serious Organized Crime Agency -- a breeze, the CIA -- falling off a log. In fact, a friend of mine from the security industry told me the other day that there are two types of companies in the world: those that know they've been hacked, and those that don't. I mean three companies providing cybersecurity services to the FBI have been hacked. Is nothing sacred anymore, for heaven's sake?
Ponekad, kada pogledate vesti, prosto se zapitate: "Da li je ostao još neko ko bi mogao biti hakovan?" Soni plejstejšn mreža -- urađeno, vlada Turske -- štiklirano, Britanska agencija za borbu protiv organizovanog kriminala - prosto kao pasulj CIA -- ništa lakše. U stvari, moj prijatelj iz bezbednosne industrije rekao mi je pre neki dan da na svetu postoje dve vrste kompanija: one koje znaju da su hakovane i one koje to ne znaju. Ja mislim da su tri kompanije koje FBI-u pružaju usluge sajber sigurnosti bile hakovane. Zar više ništa nije sveto, zaboga?
Anyway, this mysterious group Anonymous -- and they would say this themselves -- they are providing a service by demonstrating how useless companies are at protecting our data. But there is also a very serious aspect to Anonymous -- they are ideologically driven. They claim that they are battling a dastardly conspiracy. They say that governments are trying to take over the Internet and control it, and that they, Anonymous, are the authentic voice of resistance -- be it against Middle Eastern dictatorships, against global media corporations, or against intelligence agencies, or whoever it is. And their politics are not entirely unattractive. Okay, they're a little inchoate. There's a strong whiff of half-baked anarchism about them. But one thing is true: we are at the beginning of a mighty struggle for control of the Internet. The Web links everything, and very soon it will mediate most human activity. Because the Internet has fashioned a new and complicated environment for an old-age dilemma that pits the demands of security with the desire for freedom.
Uglavnom, ova misteriozna grupa Anonimus -- a ovo bi oni i sami za sebe rekli -- čine nam uslugu time što nam pokazuje koliko kompanije nisu vične zaštiti naših podataka. Postoji i veoma bitan aspekt Anonimusa -- njih pokreće ideologija. Oni tvrde da se bore protiv zle i okrutne zavere. Po njihovom mišljenju, vlade se trude da preuzmu internet i kontrolišu ga a oni, Anonimus, su jedinstveni glas otpora, bilo protiv diktatora na Srednjem Istoku, protiv globalnih medijskih kuća, obaveštajnih agencija, ili bilo koga drugog. Njihova politika nije potpuno neprivlačna. Dobro, oni jesu pomalo nejasni. Vezan za njih, postoji jak trag polu-anarhizma. Međutim, postoji jedna istina: to je da smo mi na početku velike bitke za prevlast na internetu. Mreža povezuje sve i uskoro će posredovati većini ljudskih aktivnosti, zato što je internet oblikovao novo i komplikovano okruženje za jednu staru dilemu, koje zahteve za sigurnošću suprotstavlja želji za slobodom.
Now this is a very complicated struggle. And unfortunately, for mortals like you and me, we probably can't understand it very well. Nonetheless, in an unexpected attack of hubris a couple of years ago, I decided I would try and do that. And I sort of get it. These were the various things that I was looking at as I was trying to understand it. But in order to try and explain the whole thing, I would need another 18 minutes or so to do it, so you're just going to have to take it on trust from me on this occasion, and let me assure you that all of these issues are involved in cybersecurity and control of the Internet one way or the other, but in a configuration that even Stephen Hawking would probably have difficulty trying to get his head around. So there you are. And as you see, in the middle, there is our old friend, the hacker. The hacker is absolutely central to many of the political, social and economic issues affecting the Net. And so I thought to myself, "Well, these are the guys who I want to talk to." And what do you know, nobody else does talk to the hackers. They're completely anonymous, as it were.
Ovo je veoma komplikovana borba. Nažalost, smrtnici kao što smo vi i ja, verovatno ne mogu dobro da je razumeju. Pa ipak, u jednom neočekivanom napadu oholosti, pre nekoliko godina, odlučio sam da probam baš to. I donekle sam ukapirao. Ovo su razne stvari kojima sam posvetio pažnju dok sam pokušavao da razumem tu bitku. Ali, da bih vam objasnio celu tu priču, bilo bi mi neophodno još nekih 18 minuta, tako da ćete morati da mi verujete ovom prilikom, kada vam kažem da su svi ovi problemi umešani u sajber bezbednost i kontrolu interneta, na jedan ili drugi način, a u takvoj konfiguraciji koju bi čak i Stiven Hoking, razumeo sa velikim poteškoćama. Evo nas. Kao što možete da vidite, tu je naš stari prijatelj, haker. Haker je apsolutni centar većine političkih, socijalnih i ekonomskih problema koji pogađaju Mrežu. I tako sam jednom prilikom pomislio: "Ovo su momci sa kojima želim da razgovaram". Znate šta, niko drugi ne priča sa hakerima. Oni su potpuno anonimni.
So despite the fact that we are beginning to pour billions, hundreds of billions of dollars, into cybersecurity -- for the most extraordinary technical solutions -- no one wants to talk to these guys, the hackers, who are doing everything. Instead, we prefer these really dazzling technological solutions, which cost a huge amount of money. And so nothing is going into the hackers. Well, I say nothing, but actually there is one teeny weeny little research unit in Turin, Italy called the Hackers Profiling Project. And they are doing some fantastic research into the characteristics, into the abilities and the socialization of hackers. But because they're a U.N. operation, maybe that's why governments and corporations are not that interested in them. Because it's a U.N. operation, of course, it lacks funding. But I think they're doing very important work. Because where we have a surplus of technology in the cybersecurity industry, we have a definite lack of -- call me old-fashioned -- human intelligence.
Uprkos činjenici da ulažemo milijarde, stotine milijardi dolara u sajber bezbednost -- za najneverovatnija tehnička rešenja -- niko ne želi da priča sa ovim momcima, hakerima, od kojih svi problemi potiču. Umesto toga, preferiramo zbunjujuća tehnološka rešenja, koja nas koštaju ogromne svote novca. Tako da se ništa ne ulaže u hakere. Iako sam rekao ništa, zapravo postoji jedna jako mala istraživačka jedinica u Torinu, u Italiji nazvana "Projekat profilisanja hakera". Oni vrše fantastično istraživanje o osobinama, mogućnostima i socijalizaciji hakera. Oni posluju pod pokroviteljstvom Ujedinjenih Nacija i možda je to razlog zašto vlade i korporacije nisu zainteresovane za njih. Zbog toga što su deo Ujedinjenih Nacija, nedostaju im investicije. Ali, po mom mišljenju, oni se bave veoma bitnim poslom, zato što tamo gde imamo višak tehnologije u industriji sajber sigurnosti, ono što nam nedostaje -- slobodno me nazovite staromodnim-- je ljudska inteligencija.
Now, so far I've mentioned the hackers Anonymous who are a politically motivated hacking group. Of course, the criminal justice system treats them as common old garden criminals. But interestingly, Anonymous does not make use of its hacked information for financial gain. But what about the real cybercriminals? Well real organized crime on the Internet goes back about 10 years when a group of gifted Ukrainian hackers developed a website, which led to the industrialization of cybercrime. Welcome to the now forgotten realm of CarderPlanet. This is how they were advertising themselves a decade ago on the Net. Now CarderPlanet was very interesting. Cybercriminals would go there to buy and sell stolen credit card details, to exchange information about new malware that was out there. And remember, this is a time when we're seeing for the first time so-called off-the-shelf malware. This is ready for use, out-of-the-box stuff, which you can deploy even if you're not a terribly sophisticated hacker.
Do sada sam pomenuo samo hakere Anonimusa koji su politički motivisana grupa hakera. Naravno, naš pravosudni sistem njih tretira kao obične kriminalce. Međutim, interesantno je da Anonimus ne koristi hakovane informacije za finansijsku dobit. Šta su zapravo sajber kriminalci? Pravi organizovani kriminal na internetu može se pratiti 10 godina u prošlost, kada je grupa nadarenih hakera iz Ukrajine razvila veb sajt koji nas je odveo u industrijalizaciju sajber kriminala. Dobrodošli u sada zaboravljeno carstvo Karder Planeta. Ovako su se oni reklamirali na internetu pre jedne decenije. Karder Planeta je bila veoma zanimljiva. Sajber kriminalci su odlazili tamo da bi prodali i kupili informacije o ukradenim kreditnim karticama i razmenili informacije o novom, zlonamernom softveru. Zapamtite, tada smo se po prvi put sreli sa gotovim, zlonamernim softverom. Ovaj softver je spreman za upotrebu čim ga kupite i možete ga koristiti čak iako niste jako sofisticirani haker.
And so CarderPlanet became a sort of supermarket for cybercriminals. And its creators were incredibly smart and entrepreneurial, because they were faced with one enormous challenge as cybercriminals. And that challenge is: How do you do business, how do you trust somebody on the Web who you want to do business with when you know that they're a criminal? (Laughter) It's axiomatic that they're dodgy, and they're going to want to try and rip you off. So the family, as the inner core of CarderPlanet was known, came up with this brilliant idea called the escrow system. They appointed an officer who would mediate between the vendor and the purchaser. The vendor, say, had stolen credit card details; the purchaser wanted to get a hold of them. The purchaser would send the administrative officer some dollars digitally, and the vendor would sell the stolen credit card details. And the officer would then verify if the stolen credit card worked. And if they did, he then passed on the money to the vendor and the stolen credit card details to the purchaser. And it was this which completely revolutionized cybercrime on the Web. And after that, it just went wild. We had a champagne decade for people who we know as Carders.
I tako je KarderPlaneta postala neka vrsta supermarketa za sajber kriminalce. Njegovi kreatori su bili neverovatno pametni i preduzimljivi zato što su se suočavali sa neverovatnim izazovom, tj. sajber kriminalciima. Izazov leži u sledećem: Kako voditi posao i kako verovati nekome sa kime želite da poslujete preko interneta kada znate da su oni kriminalci? (Smeh) Očigledno je da su nepošteni i da će želeti da vas prevare. Tako je "porodica", najuži krug KarderPlanete, došla na neverovatnu ideju koju su nazvali "Eskrou" sistem. Postavili su jednog službenika koji je posredovao između prodavca i kupca. Recimo da prodavac ima ukradene detalje o kreditnoj kartici; kupac želi da ih se domogne. Kupac bi službeniku poslao nešto novca elektronskim putem, a prodavac bi mu prodao detalje o ukradenoj kartici. Službenik bi onda proverio da li ukradena kartica radi. Ako kartica radi, novac bi poslao prodavcu, a detalje o kartici kupcu. Upravo je ovo izazvalo kompletnu revoluciju sajber kriminala na Mreži. Nakon toga, to je postalo nezaustavljivo. Nastupila je decenija slavlja za ljude koje danas znamo kao Kardere.
Now I spoke to one of these Carders who we'll call RedBrigade -- although that wasn't even his proper nickname -- but I promised I wouldn't reveal who he was. And he explained to me how in 2003 and 2004 he would go on sprees in New York, taking out $10,000 from an ATM here, $30,000 from an ATM there, using cloned credit cards. He was making, on average a week, $150,000 -- tax free of course. And he said that he had so much money stashed in his upper-East side apartment at one point that he just didn't know what to do with it and actually fell into a depression. But that's a slightly different story, which I won't go into now. Now the interesting thing about RedBrigade is that he wasn't an advanced hacker. He sort of understood the technology, and he realized that security was very important if you were going to be a Carder, but he didn't spend his days and nights bent over a computer, eating pizza, drinking coke and that sort of thing. He was out there on the town having a fab time enjoying the high life.
Ja sam razgovarao sa jednim od njih, nazovimo ga CrvenaBrigada, iako to nije bio njegov pravi nadimak, ali sam mu obećao da neću otkriti ko je on. Objasnio mi je kako je 2003. i 2004. u Njujorku često obilazio bankomate, uzimajući 10 hiljada dolara sa jednog bankomata, 30 hiljada dolara sa drugog, a sve to koristeći falsifikovane platne kartice. U proseku je nedeljno zarađivao 150 hiljada dolara. Naravno, sve je bilo oslobođeno poreza. Rekao mi je da je u jednom trenutku imao toliko novca u svom stanu u bogataškom kraju Njujorka da nije znao šta da radi sa njim i zato je pao u depresiju. Međutim, to je malo drugačija priča, u koju sada neću da zalazim. Ono što je interesantno kod CrveneBrigade jeste da on nije bio napredni haker. Donekle je razumeo tehnologiju i shvatio je da je bezbednost veoma bitna ako želite da budete Karder, ali nije provodio dane i noći ispred kompjutera, jedući picu, pijući kolu i slično. Ne, on se u stvari provodio u gradu uživajući u životu na visokoj nozi.
And this is because hackers are only one element in a cybercriminal enterprise. And often they're the most vulnerable element of all. And I want to explain this to you by introducing you to six characters who I met while I was doing this research. Dimitry Golubov, aka SCRIPT -- born in Odessa, Ukraine in 1982. Now he developed his social and moral compass on the Black Sea port during the 1990s. This was a sink-or-swim environment where involvement in criminal or corrupt activities was entirely necessary if you wanted to survive. As an accomplished computer user, what Dimitry did was to transfer the gangster capitalism of his hometown onto the Worldwide Web. And he did a great job in it. You have to understand though that from his ninth birthday, the only environment he knew was gangsterism. He knew no other way of making a living and making money.
Ovo je zato što su hakeri samo jedan od elemenata sajber kriminala. Najčešće su i najranjiviji deo od svih. Želim da vam objasnim ovo time što ću vas upoznati sa 6 osoba koje sam upoznao dok sam radio na ovom istraživanju. Dimitrij Golubov, poznatiji kao SKRIPTA-- rođen je u Odesi, u Ukrajini 1982. Razvio je svoje socijalne i moralne norme u ovoj luci na obali Crnog mora 1990tih. Ovo je bilo jedno okrutno okruženje gde ste morali biti umešani u korupciju i kriminalne aktivnosti ako ste želeli da preživite. Ono što je Dimitrij uradio, kao ostvareni kompjuteraš, jeste da je premestio gangsterski kapitalizam svog rodnog grada na Mrežu. To je zaista dobro uradio. Treba da razumemo da je gangsterizam jedino okruženje za koje je on znao od svog devetog rođendana. Nije poznavao nijedan drugi način preživljavanja ili zarađivanja novca.
Then we have Renukanth Subramaniam, aka JiLsi -- founder of DarkMarket, born in Colombo, Sri Lanka. As an eight year-old, he and his parents fled the Sri Lankan capital because Singhalese mobs were roaming the city, looking for Tamils like Renu to murder. At 11, he was interrogated by the Sri Lankan military, accused of being a terrorist, and his parents sent him on his own to Britain as a refugee seeking political asylum. At 13, with only little English and being bullied at school, he escaped into a world of computers where he showed great technical ability, but he was soon being seduced by people on the Internet. He was convicted of mortgage and credit card fraud, and he will be released from Wormwood Scrubs jail in London in 2012.
Dalje imamo Renakanta Sabramaniama, bolje poznatog kao DžiLzi-- on je tvorac CrnogTržišta, rođen u Kolombu, na Šri Lanki. Kao osmogodišnjak sa roditeljima je pobegao iz glavnog grada Šri Lanke zato što su rulje Singaleza preplavile grad u potrazi za Tamilima, kojima je Rena pripadao, da bi ih ubili. Sa 11 godina je bio ispitivan od strane policije Šri Lanke i optužen da je terorista. Njegovi roditelji su ga poslali u Britaniju da kao politički izbeglica zatraži azil. Sa trinaest godina znao je veoma malo engleskog i bio je zlostavljan u školi, tako da je pobegao u svet kompjutera, gde je pokazao ogromne tehničke sposobnosti, ali je uskoro bio zaveden od strane ljudi na Internetu. Osuđen je za falsifikovanje kreditnih kartica i hipoteka i biće oslobođen iz Vormvud zatvora u Londonu 2012. godine.
Matrix001, who was an administrator at DarkMarket. Born in Southern Germany to a stable and well-respected middle class family, his obsession with gaming as a teenager led him to hacking. And he was soon controlling huge servers around the world where he stored his games that he had cracked and pirated. His slide into criminality was incremental. And when he finally woke up to his situation and understood the implications, he was already in too deep.
Matriks001 je bio jedan od administratora CrnogTržišta. Rođen je u južnoj Nemačkoj u dobrostojećoj i uglednoj porodici iz srednje klase. Kao tinejdžer, bio je opsednut igranjem igara što ga je na kraju dovelo do hakovanja. Nedugo potom, kontrolisao je ogromne servere širom sveta, na kojima je čuvao piratizovane verzije igara koje je sam krekovao. Njegov ulazak u kriminal bio je postepen. Kada je konačno shvatio u kakvoj se situaciji nalazi i kada je razumeo implikacije već je bio preduboko zagazio u svet kriminala.
Max Vision, aka ICEMAN -- mastermind of CardersMarket. Born in Meridian, Idaho. Max Vision was one of the best penetration testers working out of Santa Clara, California in the late 90s for private companies and voluntarily for the FBI. Now in the late 1990s, he discovered a vulnerability on all U.S. government networks, and he went in and patched it up -- because this included nuclear research facilities -- sparing the American government a huge security embarrassment. But also, because he was an inveterate hacker, he left a tiny digital wormhole through which he alone could crawl. But this was spotted by an eagle-eye investigator, and he was convicted. At his open prison, he came under the influence of financial fraudsters, and those financial fraudsters persuaded him to work for them on his release. And this man with a planetary-sized brain is now serving a 13-year sentence in California.
Maks Vižn, poznatiji kao AJSMEN, bio je tvorac KardersTržišta, rođen u Meridijanu, u državi Ajdaho. Maks Vižn je bio jedan od najboljih istraživača mogućih tačaka upada. Radio je u Santa Klari, u Kaliforniji tokom 90tih, za privatne kompanije i kao volonter, za FBI. Tokom kasnih 1990. otkrio je slabe tačke u svim mrežama vlade Sjedinjenih Država i zakrpio ih je-- zbog toga što su one obuhvatale i postrojenja za nuklearna istraživanja-- time čuvajući američku vladu od velike sramote vezane za bezbednost. Isto tako, zato što je bio okoreli hakeraš, ostavio je mali digitalni prolaz kroz koji je samo on znao da se provuče. Međutim, ovo je primetio jedan oštrooki istraživač, a on je osuđen. U njegovom zatvoru sa minimalnim obezbeđenjem dospeo je pod uticaj ljudi koji su se bavili finansijskim prevarama i upravo su ga ti ljudi ubedili da radi za njih nakon njegovog puštanja iz zatvora. Sada je ovaj neverovatno inteligentan čovek na trinaestogodišnjem izdržavanju kazne u Kaliforniji.
Adewale Taiwo, aka FreddyBB -- master bank account cracker from Abuja in Nigeria. He set up his prosaically entitled newsgroup, bankfrauds@yahoo.co.uk before arriving in Britain in 2005 to take a Masters in chemical engineering at Manchester University. He impressed in the private sector, developing chemical applications for the oil industry while simultaneously running a worldwide bank and credit card fraud operation that was worth millions until his arrest in 2008.
Edivalej Taivo, poznatiji kao FediBiBi iz Abudže u Nigeriji, provaljivao je u bankovne račune. Postavio je grupu za razmenu vesti sa veoma dosadnim nazivom bankfrauds@yahoo.co.uk (bankarskeprevare@yahoo.co.uk) pre dolaska u Britaniju u 2005. gde je dobio Master diplomu hemijskog inženjeringa na Univerzitu u Mančesteru. Ostavio je jak trag u privatnom sektoru gde je razvijao hemijske premaze za naftnu industriju dok je istovremeno, širom sveta, radio na bankarskim prevarama i prevarama sa kreditnim karticama koje su mu donele milione dok nije uhapšen 2008.
And then finally, Cagatay Evyapan, aka Cha0 -- one of the most remarkable hackers ever, from Ankara in Turkey. He combined the tremendous skills of a geek with the suave social engineering skills of the master criminal. One of the smartest people I've ever met. He also had the most effective virtual private network security arrangement the police have ever encountered amongst global cybercriminals.
I konačno, Kagatej Eviapan, poznatiji kao Ča0 -- jedan od najizvanrednijih hakera ikada iz Ankare u Turskoj. On je kombinovao neverovatne veštine štrebera sa umilnim socijalnim veštinama velikog kriminalca. On je jedan od najpametnijih ljudi koje sam ikada upoznao. Takodje je posedovao najefektivniju zaštitu virtuelne privatne mreže sa kojom se policija ikada susrela među svetskim sajber-kriminalcima.
Now the important thing about all of these people is they share certain characteristics despite the fact that they come from very different environments. They are all people who learned their hacking skills in their early to mid-teens. They are all people who demonstrate advanced ability in maths and the sciences. Remember that, when they developed those hacking skills, their moral compass had not yet developed. And most of them, with the exception of SCRIPT and Cha0, they did not demonstrate any real social skills in the outside world -- only on the Web.
Sada, ono što je važno a što se tiče svih ovih ljudi jeste da oni dele izvesne osobine, bez obzira na to da dolaze iz veoma različitih sredina. Svi su oni naučili veštine hakovanja kao veoma mladi, najkasnije do 15. godine. Svi oni pokazuju izuzetno napredne sposobnosti za matematiku i druge nauke. Takođe upamtite da dok su razvijali ove veštine, još uvek nisu imali razvijeni moralni kompas. Isto tako, većina njih, sa izuzetkom SKRIPT-a i Ča0, nije pokazivala nikakve društvene veštine u stvarnom svetu-- samo na Mreži.
And the other thing is the high incidence of hackers like these who have characteristics which are consistent with Asperger's syndrome. Now I discussed this with Professor Simon Baron-Cohen who's the professor of developmental psychopathology at Cambridge. And he has done path-breaking work on autism and confirmed, also for the authorities here, that Gary McKinnon -- who is wanted by the United States for hacking into the Pentagon -- suffers from Asperger's and a secondary condition of depression. And Baron-Cohen explained that certain disabilities can manifest themselves in the hacking and computing world as tremendous skills, and that we should not be throwing in jail people who have such disabilities and skills because they have lost their way socially or been duped.
Druga bitna stvar je učestalost hakera koji imaju osobine dosledne onima koje se javljaju kod Aspergerovog sindroma. Diskutovao sam o ovome sa profesorom Sajmonom Baron-Kohenom, profesorom razvojne psihopatologije na Kembridžu. Sproveo je revolucionaran rad na polju istraživanja autizma i potvrdio, takođe i za ovdašnje vlasti, da Geri MekKinon-- za kojim je izdata poternica u Sjedinjenim Državama zbog hakovanja Pentagona-- boluje od Aspergerovog sindroma i sekudarnog stanja depresije. Baron-Kohen je takođe objasnio da se neke nesposobnosti mogu pokazati kao neverovatne veštine u svetu hakovanja i kompjutera i da ne bi trebali da zatvaramo ljude koji pate od takvih nesposobnosti i veština samo zbog toga što su izgubili svoj put u društvu ili zato što su bili prevareni.
Now I think we're missing a trick here, because I don't think people like Max Vision should be in jail. And let me be blunt about this. In China, in Russia and in loads of other countries that are developing cyber-offensive capabilities, this is exactly what they are doing. They are recruiting hackers both before and after they become involved in criminal and industrial espionage activities -- are mobilizing them on behalf of the state. We need to engage and find ways of offering guidance to these young people, because they are a remarkable breed. And if we rely, as we do at the moment, solely on the criminal justice system and the threat of punitive sentences, we will be nurturing a monster we cannot tame.
Mislim da propuštamo jednu bitnu činjenicu, pošto ja ne mislim da ljudi kao Maks Vižn treba da budu u zatvoru. Dozvolite mi da budem otvoren. U Kini, Rusiji i mnoštvu drugih zemalja u kojima se javlja ponašanje koje se opisuje kao sajber-opasno, čini se upravo sledeća stvar. Oni regrutuju hakere pre i nakon što oni postanu umešani u kriminal i industrijsku špijunažu-- i mobilišu ih zarad dobrobiti države. Moramo da se uključimo i pronađemo načine da ovim mladim ljudima ponudimo vodilju, zato što oni čine jednu neverovatnu grupu ljudi. Ako nastavimo da se oslanjamo, kao i do sada samo na pravosudni sistem i pretnju kažnjavanjem, odgajićemo čudovište koje nećemo moći da savladamo.
Thank you very much for listening.
Hvala vam puno što ste me saslušali.
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Chris Anderson: So your idea worth spreading is hire hackers. How would someone get over that kind of fear that the hacker they hire might preserve that little teensy wormhole?
Kris Anderson: Dakle, tvoja ideja vredna širenja jeste da treba zaposliti hakere. Kako neko može da prevaziđe strah da hakeri koje je unajmio neće ostaviti takvu malenu rupu kroz koju mogu da se provuku?
MG: I think to an extent, you have to understand that it's axiomatic among hackers that they do that. They're just relentless and obsessive about what they do. But all of the people who I've spoken to who have fallen foul of the law, they have all said, "Please, please give us a chance to work in the legitimate industry. We just never knew how to get there, what we were doing. We want to work with you."
Miša Gleni: Mislim da donekle treba da razumemo da su to očigledne stvari koje hakeri rade. Jako su uporni i opsednuti onime što rade. Ali, svi ljudi sa kojima sam razgovarao, svi koji su prekršili zakon, rekli su: "Molimo vas, dajte nam šansu da radimo nešto u legalnoj industriji. Nikada nismo znali kako da dođemo do toga, nismo znali šta radimo. Mi želimo da radimo sa vama."
Chris Anderson: Okay, well that makes sense. Thanks a lot Misha.
Kris Anderson: Dobro, to ima smisla. Hvala mnogo, Miša.
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