Now this is a very un-TED-like thing to do, but let's kick off the afternoon with a message from a mystery sponsor.
Ovo je vrlo ne-TED-ovska stvar za napraviti, ali započnimo ovo popodne s porukom od tajanstvenog sponzora.
Anonymous: Dear Fox News, it has come to our unfortunate attention that both the name and nature of Anonymous has been ravaged. We are everyone. We are no one. We are anonymous. We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. We are but the base of chaos.
Anonimus: Drage Fox vijesti, opazili smo nažalost kako su i ime i priroda Anonimusa oštečeni. Mi smo svi. Mi smo nitko. Mi smo anonimus. Mi smo legija. Mi ne opraštamo. Mi ne zaboravljamo. Mi smo osnova kaosa.
Misha Glenny: Anonymous, ladies and gentlemen -- a sophisticated group of politically motivated hackers who have emerged in 2011. And they're pretty scary. You never know when they're going to attack next, who or what the consequences will be. But interestingly, they have a sense of humor. These guys hacked into Fox News' Twitter account to announce President Obama's assassination. Now you can imagine the panic that would have generated in the newsroom at Fox. "What do we do now? Put on a black armband, or crack open the champagne?" (Laughter) And of course, who could escape the irony of a member of Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. being a victim of hacking for a change.
Misha Glenny: Anonimus, dame i gospodo -- sofisticirana grupa politički motiviranih hakera koji su nastali 2011. I oni su prilično strašni. Ne znate kada će idući put napasti, koga ili koje će biti posljedice. Ali zanimljivo, imaju smisao za humor. Ti momci su hakirali Twitter račun Fox vijesti kako bi najavili atentat na predsjednika Obamu. Sada možete zamisliti paniku koju bi to moglo uzrokovati u sobi za vijesti na Foxu. "Što da učinimo sada? Stavimo crni povez za ruku ili otvorimo šampanjac?" (Smijeh) I, naravno, tko bi mogao pobjeći ironiji člana Rupert Murdochove korporacije za vijesti koji je za promjenu žrtva hakiranja.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
Sometimes you turn on the news and you say, "Is there anyone left to hack?" Sony Playstation Network -- done, the government of Turkey -- tick, Britain's Serious Organized Crime Agency -- a breeze, the CIA -- falling off a log. In fact, a friend of mine from the security industry told me the other day that there are two types of companies in the world: those that know they've been hacked, and those that don't. I mean three companies providing cybersecurity services to the FBI have been hacked. Is nothing sacred anymore, for heaven's sake?
Ponekad upalite vijesti i kažete, "Postoji li još netko koga se može hakirati?" Sony Playstation mreža -- učinjeno, Turska vlada -- obilježeno, Britanska agencija za ozbiljan organizirani kriminal -- vrlo lako, CIA -- prelako. Zapravo, moj prijatelj iz industrije osiguranja rekao mi je neki dan kako postoje dvije vrste kompanija na svijetu: one koje znaju kako su bile hakirane, i one koje ne znaju. Mislim, tri kompanije koje pružaju uslugu internetske zaštite FBI-u su bile hakirane. Ne postoji li više išta sveto, za Boga miloga?
Anyway, this mysterious group Anonymous -- and they would say this themselves -- they are providing a service by demonstrating how useless companies are at protecting our data. But there is also a very serious aspect to Anonymous -- they are ideologically driven. They claim that they are battling a dastardly conspiracy. They say that governments are trying to take over the Internet and control it, and that they, Anonymous, are the authentic voice of resistance -- be it against Middle Eastern dictatorships, against global media corporations, or against intelligence agencies, or whoever it is. And their politics are not entirely unattractive. Okay, they're a little inchoate. There's a strong whiff of half-baked anarchism about them. But one thing is true: we are at the beginning of a mighty struggle for control of the Internet. The Web links everything, and very soon it will mediate most human activity. Because the Internet has fashioned a new and complicated environment for an old-age dilemma that pits the demands of security with the desire for freedom.
Kakobilo, ta tajanstvena grupa Anonimus -- i oni bi to rekli za sebe -- oni pružaju uslugu demonstrirajući koliko su nemoćne kompanije u zaštiti svojih podataka. Ali postoji isto i veoma ozbiljan aspekt Anonimusa -- oni su vođeni ideologijom. Oni tvrde kako se bore protiv kukavičke zavjere. Oni tvrde kako vlade pokušavaju preuzeti Internet i kontrolirati ih, a oni, Anonimus, predstavljaju autentičan glas otpora -- bilo to protiv diktatura Bliskog istoka, protiv globalnih medijskih korporacija, ili protiv obavještajnih agencija, ili koga god već. A njihova politika nije potpuno neprivlačna. U redu, malo su novi. Postoji snažan dašak polupečenog anarhizma u njima. Ali jedna stvar je istinita: nalazimo se na početku velike borbe za kontrolu Interneta. Internet sve povezuje, i vrlo brzo će posredovati u većini ljudskih aktivnosti. Jer je Internet donio novo i komplicirano okruženje za dilemu starog vijeka koje suprotstavlja potrebu za sigurnošću sa željom za slobodom.
Now this is a very complicated struggle. And unfortunately, for mortals like you and me, we probably can't understand it very well. Nonetheless, in an unexpected attack of hubris a couple of years ago, I decided I would try and do that. And I sort of get it. These were the various things that I was looking at as I was trying to understand it. But in order to try and explain the whole thing, I would need another 18 minutes or so to do it, so you're just going to have to take it on trust from me on this occasion, and let me assure you that all of these issues are involved in cybersecurity and control of the Internet one way or the other, but in a configuration that even Stephen Hawking would probably have difficulty trying to get his head around. So there you are. And as you see, in the middle, there is our old friend, the hacker. The hacker is absolutely central to many of the political, social and economic issues affecting the Net. And so I thought to myself, "Well, these are the guys who I want to talk to." And what do you know, nobody else does talk to the hackers. They're completely anonymous, as it were.
To je jako komplicirana borba. I nažalost, za smrtnike kao što ste vi i ja, mi vjerojatno ne možemo to dobro shvatiti. No, bez obzira, u neočekivanom napadu oholosti prije par godina, odlučio sam kako ću pokušati to učiniti. I na neki način shvaćam. Ovo su bile neke od raznih stvari koje sam promatrao kada sam ih pokušavao shvatiti. Ali kako bih pokušao objasniti cijelu stvar, biti će mi potrebno otprilike dodatnih 18 minuta kako bih to učinio, tako da ćete mi ovaj put morati vjerovati na riječ, i dopustiti mi da vas uvjerim kako su sve te stvari uključene u Internetsku zaštitu i kontrolu Interneta na ovaj ili onaj način, ali u konfiguraciji koju bi čak i Stephen Hawking s teškoćom mogao shvatiti. Dakle, ovdje ste. I kao što vidite, u sredini, je naš stari prijatelj, haker. Haker je u potpunosti ključan za mnoga politička, društvena i ekonomska pitanja koja utječu na Internet. I stoga sam pomislio, "Pa, ovdje su momci s kojima želim razgovarati." I pazite ovo, nitko drugi ne razgovara s hakerima. Oni su u potpunosti anonimni.
So despite the fact that we are beginning to pour billions, hundreds of billions of dollars, into cybersecurity -- for the most extraordinary technical solutions -- no one wants to talk to these guys, the hackers, who are doing everything. Instead, we prefer these really dazzling technological solutions, which cost a huge amount of money. And so nothing is going into the hackers. Well, I say nothing, but actually there is one teeny weeny little research unit in Turin, Italy called the Hackers Profiling Project. And they are doing some fantastic research into the characteristics, into the abilities and the socialization of hackers. But because they're a U.N. operation, maybe that's why governments and corporations are not that interested in them. Because it's a U.N. operation, of course, it lacks funding. But I think they're doing very important work. Because where we have a surplus of technology in the cybersecurity industry, we have a definite lack of -- call me old-fashioned -- human intelligence.
Dakle, bez obzira što počinjemo ulijevati milijarde, stotine milijardi dolara, u zaštitu na Internetu -- za najnaprednija tehnološka rješenja -- nitko ne želi razgovarati s tim momcima, hakerima, koji sve rade. Umjesto, mi preferiramo ta doista zaslijepljujuća tehnološka rješenja, koja koštaju puno novaca. I tako ništa ne odlazi hakerima. Pa, kažem ništa, ali zapravo postoji sićušni, maleni odjel za istraživanje u Torinu, Italiji zvan Projekt profiliranja hakera. I oni rade neka fantastična istraživanja o karakteristikama, sposobnostima i društvenosti hakera. Ali zato jer su oni operacija UN-a, možda zato vlade i korporacije nisu zainteresirane za njih. Zato jer je to operacija UN-a, naravno, nema dovoljno financijskih sredstava. Ali mislim kako oni rade jako važan posao. Jer tamo gdje mi imamo višak tehnologije u industriji internetske zaštite, imamo definitivni manjak -- zovite me staromodnim -- ljudske inteligencije.
Now, so far I've mentioned the hackers Anonymous who are a politically motivated hacking group. Of course, the criminal justice system treats them as common old garden criminals. But interestingly, Anonymous does not make use of its hacked information for financial gain. But what about the real cybercriminals? Well real organized crime on the Internet goes back about 10 years when a group of gifted Ukrainian hackers developed a website, which led to the industrialization of cybercrime. Welcome to the now forgotten realm of CarderPlanet. This is how they were advertising themselves a decade ago on the Net. Now CarderPlanet was very interesting. Cybercriminals would go there to buy and sell stolen credit card details, to exchange information about new malware that was out there. And remember, this is a time when we're seeing for the first time so-called off-the-shelf malware. This is ready for use, out-of-the-box stuff, which you can deploy even if you're not a terribly sophisticated hacker.
Dosad sam spomenuo Anonimus hakere koji su politički motivirana grupa hakera. Naravno, sustav kaznenog prava ih tretira kao obične staromodne kriminalce. Ali zanimljivo, Anonimus ne koristi hakirane informacije za financijsku korist. Ali što je s pravim internetskim kriminalcima? Pa, stvaran organiziran kriminal na Internetu datira od prije 10 godina kada je grupa darovitih hakera iz Ukrajine razvila web stranicu, koja je vodila do industrijalizacije Internetskog zločina. Dobrodošli u sada zaboravljenu stvarnost 'Planeta kartica'. Tako su se oglašavali prije 10 godina na Internetu. 'Planet kartica' je bio jako zanimljiv. Internetski kriminalci bi odlazili tamo kako bi kupili i prodavali ukradene detalje s kreditnih kartica, kako bi razmjenili informacije o novo izašlim zlonamjernim softverima. I upamtite, to je doba kada po prvi put opažamo tako zvani zlobni softver s polica. To je roba spremna za korištenje, iz kutije, koju možete razviti čak i ako niste strašno sofisticiran haker.
And so CarderPlanet became a sort of supermarket for cybercriminals. And its creators were incredibly smart and entrepreneurial, because they were faced with one enormous challenge as cybercriminals. And that challenge is: How do you do business, how do you trust somebody on the Web who you want to do business with when you know that they're a criminal? (Laughter) It's axiomatic that they're dodgy, and they're going to want to try and rip you off. So the family, as the inner core of CarderPlanet was known, came up with this brilliant idea called the escrow system. They appointed an officer who would mediate between the vendor and the purchaser. The vendor, say, had stolen credit card details; the purchaser wanted to get a hold of them. The purchaser would send the administrative officer some dollars digitally, and the vendor would sell the stolen credit card details. And the officer would then verify if the stolen credit card worked. And if they did, he then passed on the money to the vendor and the stolen credit card details to the purchaser. And it was this which completely revolutionized cybercrime on the Web. And after that, it just went wild. We had a champagne decade for people who we know as Carders.
I tako je 'Planet kartica' postao neka vrsta supermarketa za internetske kriminalce. I njegovi kreatori su bili nevjerojatno pametni i poduzetni, jer su bili suočeni s jednim ogromnim izazovom kao internetski kriminalci. A taj izazov je: Kako poslujete, kako vjerujete nekome na Internetu tko želi poslovati s vama kada znate kada su oni kriminalci? (Smijeh) Aksiomatično je kako su oni sumnjivi, i kako će vas pokušati okrasti. Stoga je obitelj, tako se nazivala unutarnja jezgra 'Planeta kartica', došla do briljantne ideje zvane sustav obveznica. Postavili su službenika koji bi posredovao između prodavača i kupca. Prodavač je, recimo, imao detalje ukradene kreditne kartice; kupac je želio doći do njih. Kupac bi poslao administrativnom službeniku nekoliko dolara digitalno, a prodavatelj bi prodao detalje ukradene kreditne kartice. A službenik bi tada potvrdio funkcionira li ukradena kreditna kartica. I ako bi, on bi zatim proslijedio novac prodavaču i detalje ukradene kreditne kartice kupcu. I to je bilo ono što je u potpunosti revolucionariziralo internetski kriminal. I nakon toga, samo je podivljalo. Imali smo dekadu šampanjca za ljude koje znamo kao 'Kartice'.
Now I spoke to one of these Carders who we'll call RedBrigade -- although that wasn't even his proper nickname -- but I promised I wouldn't reveal who he was. And he explained to me how in 2003 and 2004 he would go on sprees in New York, taking out $10,000 from an ATM here, $30,000 from an ATM there, using cloned credit cards. He was making, on average a week, $150,000 -- tax free of course. And he said that he had so much money stashed in his upper-East side apartment at one point that he just didn't know what to do with it and actually fell into a depression. But that's a slightly different story, which I won't go into now. Now the interesting thing about RedBrigade is that he wasn't an advanced hacker. He sort of understood the technology, and he realized that security was very important if you were going to be a Carder, but he didn't spend his days and nights bent over a computer, eating pizza, drinking coke and that sort of thing. He was out there on the town having a fab time enjoying the high life.
Pričao sam s jednom 'Karticom' kojeg ćemo zvati CrvenaBrigada -- iako to nije bio ni njegov pravi nadimak -- ali obećao sam kako neću otkriti tko je on. I objasnio mi je kako bi 2003. i 2004. otišao na pohode u New York, uzimajući 10.000 dolara iz bankomata ovdje, 30.000 dolara iz bankomata tamo, koristeći klonirane kreditne kartice. Zarađivao je, prosječno na tjedan, 150.000 dolara -- bez poreza, naravno. I rekao je kako je imao toliko novaca spremljenog u jednom trenutku u svom stanu na upper-East side-u kako jednostavno nije znao što bi s njime i zapravo je pao u depresiju. Ali to je malo drugačija priča, u koju neću sada ulaziti. Sada, zanimljiva stvar o CrvenojBrigadi je kako on nije bio napredan haker. On je shvaćao tehnologiju, i shvatio je kako je sigurnost jako važna ukoliko želite biti 'Kartica', ali nije provodio svoje dane i noći nad računalom, jedući picu, pijući kolu i te stvari. On je bio vani po gradu super se provodeći uživajući u životu na visokoj nozi.
And this is because hackers are only one element in a cybercriminal enterprise. And often they're the most vulnerable element of all. And I want to explain this to you by introducing you to six characters who I met while I was doing this research. Dimitry Golubov, aka SCRIPT -- born in Odessa, Ukraine in 1982. Now he developed his social and moral compass on the Black Sea port during the 1990s. This was a sink-or-swim environment where involvement in criminal or corrupt activities was entirely necessary if you wanted to survive. As an accomplished computer user, what Dimitry did was to transfer the gangster capitalism of his hometown onto the Worldwide Web. And he did a great job in it. You have to understand though that from his ninth birthday, the only environment he knew was gangsterism. He knew no other way of making a living and making money.
A to je zato jer su hakeri samo jedan element u poduzeću internetskog kriminala. I najčešće su oni najranjivi element od svih. I želim vam to objasniti predstavljajući vam šest likova koje sam upoznao kada sam provodio ovo istraživanje. Dimitry Golubov, ili SCRIPT -- rođen u Odessi, Ukrajina 1982. On je razvio svoj društveni i moralni kompas u luci Crnog mora tijekom 1990-ih. To je bilo potoni-ili-plivaj okruženje gdje je uključenost u kriminal ili korumpirane aktivnosti bilo apsolutno potrebno ako ste željeli preživjeti. Kao potvrđeni računalni korisnik, Dimitry je transferirao kapitalizam gangstera svog rodnog grada na World Wide Web. I on je napravio sjajan posao. Ipak morate shvatiti kako je od njegova devetog rođendana, jedino okruženje koje je poznavao bilo gangsterizam. Nije znao niti jedan drugi način življenja i zarađivanja novca.
Then we have Renukanth Subramaniam, aka JiLsi -- founder of DarkMarket, born in Colombo, Sri Lanka. As an eight year-old, he and his parents fled the Sri Lankan capital because Singhalese mobs were roaming the city, looking for Tamils like Renu to murder. At 11, he was interrogated by the Sri Lankan military, accused of being a terrorist, and his parents sent him on his own to Britain as a refugee seeking political asylum. At 13, with only little English and being bullied at school, he escaped into a world of computers where he showed great technical ability, but he was soon being seduced by people on the Internet. He was convicted of mortgage and credit card fraud, and he will be released from Wormwood Scrubs jail in London in 2012.
Zatim imamo Renukantha Subramaniama, ili JiLsi -- osnivača TamnogTržišta, rođenog u Kolombu, Šri Lanci. Kao osmogodišnjak, on i njegovi roditelji su napustili glavni grad Šri Lanke jer je Singalska mafija harala gradom, u potrazi za Tamilima kao što je Renu kako bi ih ubila. U dobi od 11, vojska Šri Lanke ga je ispitivala, optužila da je terorist, i roditelji su ga poslali samoga u Britaniju kao izbjeglicu koja traži politički azil. U dobi od 13 godina, sa samo malo engleskog i maltretiranja u školi, pobjegao je u svijet računala gdje je pokazao veliku tehničku sposobnost, ali je ubrzo zaveden od ljudi na Internetu. Optužen je za hipotekarnu i kartičnu prijevaru, i biti će pušten iz Wormwood Scrubs zatvora u Londonu 2012. godine.
Matrix001, who was an administrator at DarkMarket. Born in Southern Germany to a stable and well-respected middle class family, his obsession with gaming as a teenager led him to hacking. And he was soon controlling huge servers around the world where he stored his games that he had cracked and pirated. His slide into criminality was incremental. And when he finally woke up to his situation and understood the implications, he was already in too deep.
Matrix001, bio je administrator u TamnomTržištu. Rođen u južnoj Njemačkoj u stabilnu i visoko poštovanu obitelj srednjeg sloja, njegova opsjednutost video igricama kao tinejdžera odvela ga je do hakiranja. I ubrzo je kontrolirao ogromne servere diljem svijeta gdje je pohranjivao svoje igre koje je krekirao i bespravno presnimavao. Njegov ulazak u kriminal je bio inkrementalan. I kada je napokon postao svjestan svoje situacije i shvatio implikacije, već je bio preduboko u tome.
Max Vision, aka ICEMAN -- mastermind of CardersMarket. Born in Meridian, Idaho. Max Vision was one of the best penetration testers working out of Santa Clara, California in the late 90s for private companies and voluntarily for the FBI. Now in the late 1990s, he discovered a vulnerability on all U.S. government networks, and he went in and patched it up -- because this included nuclear research facilities -- sparing the American government a huge security embarrassment. But also, because he was an inveterate hacker, he left a tiny digital wormhole through which he alone could crawl. But this was spotted by an eagle-eye investigator, and he was convicted. At his open prison, he came under the influence of financial fraudsters, and those financial fraudsters persuaded him to work for them on his release. And this man with a planetary-sized brain is now serving a 13-year sentence in California.
Max Vision, ili ICEMAN -- vrhovni um kartičnogTržišta. Rođen u Meridianu, Idaho. Max Vision je bio jedan od najboljih testera penetracije koji je radio iz Santa Clare, Kalifornija, u kasnim 90-im za privatne kompanije i dobrovoljno za FBI. Sada, u kasnim 1990-im, otkrio je ranjivost na svim mrežama vlade SAD-a, i ušao je unutra i zakrpao ih -- jer je to uključivalo postrojenja za istraživanje nuklearne energije -- pošteđujući američku vladu velike sigurnosne sramote. Ali ujedno, jer je bio okorjeli haker, ostavio je sićušan digitalni rupu kroz koju bi se on sam mogao provući. Ali to je primjetio istražitelj s okom sokolovim, i bio je optužen. U svom otvorenom zatvoru, došao je pod utjecaj financijskih prevaranata, i ti financijski prevaranti uvjerili su ga da radi za njih nakon njegova puštanja. I taj čovjek s mozgom veličine planeta odležava sada 13-godišnju kaznu u Kaliforniji.
Adewale Taiwo, aka FreddyBB -- master bank account cracker from Abuja in Nigeria. He set up his prosaically entitled newsgroup, bankfrauds@yahoo.co.uk before arriving in Britain in 2005 to take a Masters in chemical engineering at Manchester University. He impressed in the private sector, developing chemical applications for the oil industry while simultaneously running a worldwide bank and credit card fraud operation that was worth millions until his arrest in 2008.
Adewale Taiwo, ili FeddyBB -- majstor dešifiranja bankovnih računa iz Abuje u Nigeriji. Postavio je svoju prozaično naslovljenu grupu, bankovneprijevare@yahoo.co.uk prije dolaska u Britaniju 2005. godine kako bi otišao na magisterij kemijskog inženjeringa na Sveučilištu Manchester. On je impresionirao u privatnom sektoru, razvijajući kemijske aplikacije za industriju nafte dok je simultano vodio svjetsku operaciju bankovnih i kartičnih prijevara koja je bila vrijedna milijune sve do njegova uhićenja 2008. godine.
And then finally, Cagatay Evyapan, aka Cha0 -- one of the most remarkable hackers ever, from Ankara in Turkey. He combined the tremendous skills of a geek with the suave social engineering skills of the master criminal. One of the smartest people I've ever met. He also had the most effective virtual private network security arrangement the police have ever encountered amongst global cybercriminals.
I naposljetku, Cagatay Evyapan, ili Cha0 -- jedan od najnevjerojatnijih hakera ikada, iz Ankare u Turskoj. On je kombinirao ogromne vještine štrebera s ljubaznim vještinama društvenog inženjeringa majstorskog kriminalca. Jedan od najpametnijih ljudi koje sam ikada upoznao. On je ujedno imao i najučinkovitiju virtualnu privatnu mrežu sigurnosti na koju je policija ikada naišla među globalnim internetskim kriminalcima.
Now the important thing about all of these people is they share certain characteristics despite the fact that they come from very different environments. They are all people who learned their hacking skills in their early to mid-teens. They are all people who demonstrate advanced ability in maths and the sciences. Remember that, when they developed those hacking skills, their moral compass had not yet developed. And most of them, with the exception of SCRIPT and Cha0, they did not demonstrate any real social skills in the outside world -- only on the Web.
Sada, važna stvar o svim tim ljudima je kako dijele određene karakteristike unatoč činjenici kako dolaze iz vrlo različitih okruženja. To su sve ljudi koji su naučili svoje vještine hakiranja u svojim ranim i srednjim tinejdžerskim godinama. To su sve ljudi koji pokazuju naprednu sposobnost u matematici i znanostima. Upamtite, kada su razvili te vještine hakiranja, njihov moralni kompas još nije bio razvijen. I većina njih, uz inimku SCRIPT-a i Cha0-a, nisu demonstrirali neke prave društvene vještine u vanjskom svijetu -- samo na Internetu.
And the other thing is the high incidence of hackers like these who have characteristics which are consistent with Asperger's syndrome. Now I discussed this with Professor Simon Baron-Cohen who's the professor of developmental psychopathology at Cambridge. And he has done path-breaking work on autism and confirmed, also for the authorities here, that Gary McKinnon -- who is wanted by the United States for hacking into the Pentagon -- suffers from Asperger's and a secondary condition of depression. And Baron-Cohen explained that certain disabilities can manifest themselves in the hacking and computing world as tremendous skills, and that we should not be throwing in jail people who have such disabilities and skills because they have lost their way socially or been duped.
A druga stvar je visoka učestalost hakera poput ovih koji imaju karakteristike koje su konzistentne s Aspergerovim sindromom. Sada, razgovarao sam o tome s profesorom Simonom Baron-Cohenom koji je profesor razvojne psihopatologije na Cambridgeu. I on je napravio rad od iznimnog značaja za autizam i potvrdio, ujedno i za nadležne ovdje, kako Gary McKinnon -- koji je tražen od Sjedinjenih Država za hakiranje u Pentagon -- boluje od Aspergera i drugog stupnja depresije. I Baron-Cohen je objasnio kako se određene poteškoće mogu manifestirati u svijetu hakiranja i računalstva kao ogromne vještine, i kako ne bismo smjeli bacati u zatvor ljude s takvim poteškoćama i vještinama jer su izgubili svoj društveni put ili su bili nasamareni.
Now I think we're missing a trick here, because I don't think people like Max Vision should be in jail. And let me be blunt about this. In China, in Russia and in loads of other countries that are developing cyber-offensive capabilities, this is exactly what they are doing. They are recruiting hackers both before and after they become involved in criminal and industrial espionage activities -- are mobilizing them on behalf of the state. We need to engage and find ways of offering guidance to these young people, because they are a remarkable breed. And if we rely, as we do at the moment, solely on the criminal justice system and the threat of punitive sentences, we will be nurturing a monster we cannot tame.
Mislim kako smo previdjeli jedan trik ovdje, jer mislim kako ljudi poput Max Visiona ne bi trebali biti u zatvoru. I dopustite mi da budem iskren o tome. U Kini, Rusiji i hrpi drugih država koje razvijaju sposobnosti internetskog napada, to je upravo ono što rade. One regrutiraju hakere prije i nakon što postaju uključeni u kriminalne i aktivnosti industrijske špijunaže -- mobiliziraju ih od strane države. Moramo se uključiti i pronaći načine pružanja smjernica tim mladim ljudima, jer oni su nevjerojatna sorta. I ako se oslanjamo, kao što to činimo sada, isključivo na sustav kaznenog prava i prijetnju kaznenim osudama, uzgajat ćemo čudovište koje ne možemo ukrotiti.
Thank you very much for listening.
Hvala vam puno za slušanje.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
Chris Anderson: So your idea worth spreading is hire hackers. How would someone get over that kind of fear that the hacker they hire might preserve that little teensy wormhole?
Chris Anderson: Dakle, tvoja ideja koja je vrijedna širenja je unajmiti hakere. Kako će netko prevladati strah kako će hakeri koje unajme možda zadržati malu, sićušnu crvotočinu?
MG: I think to an extent, you have to understand that it's axiomatic among hackers that they do that. They're just relentless and obsessive about what they do. But all of the people who I've spoken to who have fallen foul of the law, they have all said, "Please, please give us a chance to work in the legitimate industry. We just never knew how to get there, what we were doing. We want to work with you."
MG: Mislim, do neke krajnosti, morate razumijeti kako je to aksiomatično kod hakera koji to rade. Oni su jednostavno nemilosrdni i opsjednuti time što rade. Ali svi ljudi s kojima sam razgovarao, koji su završili onkraj zakona, svi su oni rekli, "Molim vas, molim vas, dajte nam šansu da radimo u legitimnoj industriji. Mi jednostavno nikada nismo znali kako doći tamo, što radimo. Mi želimo raditi s vama".
Chris Anderson: Okay, well that makes sense. Thanks a lot Misha.
Chris Anderson: U redu, to ima smisla. Puno ti hvala Misha.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)