What is bioenergy? Bioenergy is not ethanol. Bioenergy isn't global warming. Bioenergy is something which seems counterintuitive. Bioenergy is oil. It's gas. It's coal. And part of building that bridge to the future, to the point where we can actually see the oceans in a rational way, or put up these geo-spatial orbits that will twirl or do microwaves or stuff, is going to depend on how we understand bioenergy and manage it. And to do that, you really have to look first at agriculture.
什麽是生物能源? 生物能源不是乙醇。 生物能源不是全球變暖。生物能源是 一種看上去違反直覺的東西。生物能源 是石油,是煤氣,是煤碳。 我們建造通向未來的橋梁-直到我們 能夠真正以理性的眼光來看待海洋或 建造可以旋轉或釋放微波或其他物質的地球空間軌道- 將取決於 我們怎樣理解和管理生物能源。要做到這些, 你真的必須首先瞭解農業。
So we've been planting stuff for 11,000 years. And in the measure that we plant stuff, what we learn from agriculture is you've got to deal with pests, you've got to deal with all types of awful things, you've got to cultivate stuff. In the measure that you learn how to use water to cultivate, then you're going to be able to spread beyond the Nile. You're going to be able to power stuff, so irrigation makes a difference.
我們已經從事種植業有11,000年了。 在種植的過程中,我們從農業中學到的 是你需要對付害蟲, 你需要對付各種各樣的可怕的東西, 你需要培育作物。 你在種植的過程中學會怎樣用水進行灌溉,然後 你才能將種植業傳播到尼羅河以外的地區。 你需要能夠提供動力,所以灌溉 使事情發生了變化。
Irrigation starts to make you be allowed to plant stuff where you want it, as opposed to where the rivers flood. You start getting this organic agriculture; you start putting machinery onto this stuff. Machinery, with a whole bunch of water, leads to very large-scale agriculture. You put together machines and water, and you get landscapes that look like this. And then you get sales that look like this. It's brute force. So what you've been doing in agriculture is you start out with something that's a reasonably natural system. You start taming that natural system. You put a lot of force behind that natural system. You put a whole bunch of pesticides and herbicides -- (Laughter) -- behind that natural system, and you end up with systems that look like this.
灌溉開始使你能夠 在你想要種的地方種植作物,而不只是局限於 河流自然流到的地域。於是你開始了這種有機 農業, 你開始在農業中使用機械。 機械與大量的水一起, 導致了大規模農業的產生。 你將機器和水放在一起,就得到 看上去是這樣子的景觀。然後你獲得 看上去是這樣子的銷售。這是蠻力。所以 你在農業領域所做的是,你從 一個相對說來是自然的系統出發。 你開始征服這一自然系統。 你在這一自然系統的背後添加了大量機械動力。 你將大量的殺蟲劑和除草劑 -(笑聲)-添加到這個自然系統的背後,你 最終得到的是看上去是這樣子的系統。
And it's all brute force. And that's the way we've been approaching energy. So the lesson in agriculture is that you can actually change the system that's based on brute force as you start merging that system and learning that system and actually applying biology. And you move from a discipline of engineering, you move from a discipline of chemistry, into a discipline of biology. And probably one of the most important human beings on the planet is this guy behind me.
這些都是蠻力。這就是我們 處理能源的方式。所以, 在農業上我們得到 的教訓就是實際上你可以改變這種 基於蠻力的體系,當你開始 將不同的元素融入這一系統,並且試圖瞭解這一系統,並且 在其中實際運用生物學的原理。這樣,你就從 工程學的領域,你就從 化學的領域,轉向了 生物學的領域。可能地球上最重要的 一個人就是我身後的這個人。
This is a guy called Norman Borlaug. He won the Nobel Prize. He's got the Congressional Medal of Honor. He deserves all of this stuff. And he deserves this stuff because he probably has fed more people than any other human being alive because he researched how to put biology behind seeds. He did this in Mexico. The reason why India and China no longer have these massive famines is because Norman Borlaug taught them how to grow grains in a more efficient way and launched the Green Revolution. That is something that a lot of people have criticized. But of course, those are people who don't realize that China and India, instead of having huge amounts of starving people, are exporting grains.
這個人名叫Norman Borlaug . 他獲得了諾貝爾獎。他獲得了國會榮譽獎章。 這些榮譽都是他應得的。他 應該得到這些榮譽是因為他可能比 任何其他活著的人都養活了更多的人。 因為他從事在種子技術中運用生物學的研究。 他是在墨西哥從事這一研究的。 印度和中國不再有大規模饑荒的原因是 因為Norman Borlaug 教會了他們怎樣 更有效的種植糧食,開啟了 綠色革命的先河。許多 人都曾經批評過這件事。但是當然, 這些批評的人都是 都是沒有意識到中國和印度 不但不再有巨大數量的處於饑荒狀態的人口, 而且變成了糧食出口國的人。
And the irony of this particular system is the place where he did the research, which was Mexico, didn't adopt this technology, ignored this technology, talked about why this technology should be thought about, but not really applied. And Mexico remains one of the largest grain importers on the planet because it doesn't apply technology that was discovered in Mexico. And in fact, hasn't recognized this man, to the point where there aren't statues of this man all over Mexico. There are in China and India. And the Institute that this guy ran has now moved to India. That is the difference between adopting technologies and discussing technologies. Now, it's not just that this guy fed a huge amount of people in the world. It's that this is the net effect in terms of what technology does, if you understand biology.
具有諷刺意味的是, 他從事研究的地方-就是墨西哥-卻 沒有採用他的技術,而是忽略這一 技術,他們談論的是為什麽這一技術 應當得到考慮卻不能真的運用。 墨西哥仍然是全世界最大的糧食 進口國之一,因為它沒有運用 在墨西哥本土發現的技術。實際上, 墨西哥沒有認可這個人, 在整個墨西哥都沒有他的塑像。 在中國和印度卻有他的塑像。 這個人管理的研究機構現在搬到了印度。 這就是採用技術和討論技術的 區別。 現在,不僅僅是關於這個人養活了 世界上為數眾多的人, 而是關於 技術可以帶來什麽樣的凈效應,如果你 瞭解生物學的話。
What happened in agriculture? Well, if you take agriculture over a century, agriculture in about 1900 would have been recognizable to somebody planting a thousand years earlier. Yeah, the plows look different. The machines were tractors or stuff instead of mules, but the farmer would have understood: this is what the guy's doing, this is why he's doing it, this is where he's going. What really started to change in agriculture is when you started moving from this brute force engineering and chemistry into biology, and that's where you get your productivity increases. And as you do that stuff, here's what happens to productivity.
農業領域中發生過什麽?如果你觀察 一個世紀以來的農業, 一千年前從事種植的人是可以辨認出 1900年左右的農業的。是的,犁看起來 不同。使用的機器是拖拉機等機械 而不是騾子,但是農人能夠 理解,這個人做的是什麽, 他為什麽這麼做,他會得到什麽結果。 農業真正開始變化的時候是 你開始從 工程和化學的蠻力向生物學轉變時。 你的生產力是在這裡得到增長的。 當你從事這種生產時,生產力的變化 是這樣的。
Basically, you go from 250 hours to produce 100 bushels, to 40, to 15, to five. Agricultural labor productivity increased seven times, 1950 to 2000, whereas the rest of the economy increased about 2.5 times. This is an absolutely massive increase in how much is produced per person. The effect of this, of course, is it's not just amber waves of grain, it is mountains of stuff. And 50 percent of the EU budget is going to subsidize agriculture from mountains of stuff that people have overproduced.
基本上是這樣的,從1950 年到2000年,你生產100 蒲式耳的糧食的時間 從250小時降到40小時, 再到15小時, 再到5小時。 生產效率提高了七倍。 而同期經濟平均增長率是大約 2.5倍。這絕對是 人均產量的巨大增長。 其效果是,當然,不止是 滾滾而來的糧食,而是糧食堆積成山。 歐共體百分之五十的的預算將會對 農業提供補貼。而歐共體的預算是從人們已經過量生產的 堆積成山的糧食中來的。
This would be a good outcome for energy. And of course, by now, you're probably saying to yourself, "Self, I thought I came to a talk about energy and here's this guy talking about biology." So where's the link between these two things? One of the ironies of this whole system is we're discussing what to do about a system that we don't understand. We don't even know what oil is. We don't know where oil comes from. I mean, literally, it's still a source of debate what this black river of stuff is and where it comes from. The best assumption, and one of the best guesses in this stuff, is that this stuff comes out of this stuff, that these things absorb sunlight, rot under pressure for millions of years, and you get these black rivers.
這對能源來說可以是一個好的結果。 當然,聽到這裡,你可能在對你 自己說,“呀,我認為我來是談能源的, 這個傢伙卻在這裡談生物。” 所以,這兩者之間的聯繫是什麽呢? 這整個體系的自相矛盾之處是 我們在討論對如何操作一個我們 不瞭解的體系。我們甚至都不知道石油是什麽。 我們也不知道石油是從哪裡來的。我的意思是, 準確的說,石油是什麽和石油是從哪裡來的 還是引起爭論的問題。 在這個問題上最好的假設,最好的猜測之一是 石油是從 這些東西來的。這些東西吸收 陽光,在數百年的壓力下腐爛, 你得到的就是這些黑色的河流。
Now, the interesting thing about that thesis -- if that thesis turns out to be true -- is that oil, and all hydrocarbons, turned out to be concentrated sunlight. And if you think of bioenergy, bioenergy isn't ethanol. Bioenergy is taking the sun, concentrating it in amoebas, concentrating it in plants, and maybe that's why you get these rainbows. And as you're looking at this system, if hydrocarbons are concentrated sunlight, then bioenergy works in a different way. And we've got to start thinking of oil and other hydrocarbons as part of these solar panels. Maybe that's one of the reasons why if you fly over west Texas, the types of wells that you're beginning to see don't look unlike those pictures of Kansas and those irrigated plots.
現在,關於這些理論的有趣的事是 -如果這個理論是正確的-石油, 和所有的烴,看來是 積聚的陽光。如果你想到 生物能源,生物能源不是乙醇。生物能源是 吸收光能,將其集中在變形蟲身上, 集中在植物上,可能那就是 你得到這些彩虹的原因。 當你觀察這個系統的時候, 如果烴是聚集的陽光,那麽 生物能源是以不同的方式產生的。我們已經 開始將石油和其他的烴想成 這些太陽能電池板的一部份。 可能那就是原因 如果你飛過德克薩斯西部,你將會開始見到的這種井 不是和堪薩斯的這些照片 和這些灌溉田地沒有相似之處的
This is how you farm oil. And as you think of farming oil and how oil has evolved, we started with this brute force approach. And then what did we learn? Then we learned we had to go bigger. And then what'd we learn? Then we have to go even bigger. And we are getting really destructive as we're going out and farming this bioenergy. These are the Athabasca tar sands, and there's an enormous amount -- first of mining, the largest trucks in the world are working here, and then you've got to pull out this black sludge, which is basically oil that doesn't flow. It's tied to the sand. And then you've got to use a lot of steam to separate it, which only works at today's oil prices.
這就是你怎樣在油田採油。當你想到 採油和石油是怎樣演變的,我們開始 這種採用蠻力的方法。那麽我們學到了 什麽?那麽我們學到了我們不得不擴大規模。 然後我們學到什麽?然後我們不得不再 擴大規模。這樣我們在走出去開採生物能源時, 我們真的變得有毀滅性了。 這些是阿薩巴斯卡油砂, 數量 巨大-首先是開採, 世界上最大的卡車在這裡工作, 然後 你需要弄出這些黑色的污泥, 這些污泥實際上是不會流動的石油。石油是與 沙混在一起的。然後你需要用大量的蒸汽 來分離它, 這種方式僅僅是在今天的油價下 才能實現的。
Coal. Coal turns out to be virtually the same stuff. It is probably plants, except that these have been burned and crushed under pressure. So you take something like this, you burn it, you put it under pressure, and likely as not, you get this. Although, again, I stress: we don't know. Which is curious as we debate all this stuff. But as you think of coal, this is what burned wheat kernels look like. Not entirely unlike coal.
煤。煤基本上是同樣的 東西。它可能是植物,不同的是它是來自那些 被燃燒並在壓力下粉碎的植物。 所以你拿一些這樣的東西,將它點燃,再 將它置於壓力下,很有可能,你會得到 這個。但是,再一次強調:我們不知道。 這一事實是我們在辯論所有這些時應該感到奇怪的。 但當你想到煤時,這是燒焦的麥核的樣子, 看上去不是完全不像煤。
And of course, coalmines are very dangerous places because in some of these coalmines, you get gas. When that gas blows up, people die. So you're producing a biogas out of coal in some mines, but not in others. Any place you see a differential, there're some interesting questions. There's some questions as to what you should be doing with this stuff. But again, coal. Maybe the same stuff, maybe the same system, maybe bioenergy, and you're applying exactly the same technology.
當然,煤礦是非常危險的 地方,因為在有些煤礦中 有氣體。當這種氣體爆炸時,會死人。所以 在有些煤礦中, 你能從煤里生產沼氣, 但是另一些煤礦卻不能。 在你看到差異的任何地方, 都會有一些 有趣的問題。有些問題是關於 你應當用這種東西來做什麽的。但是 再一次說, 煤。 可能是同樣的東西,可能是同樣的系統, 可能是生物能源,你在運用 完全相同的技術。
Here's your brute force approach. Once you get through your brute force approach, then you just rip off whole mountaintops. And you end up with the single largest source of carbon emissions, which are coal-fired gas plants. That is probably not the best use of bioenergy. As you think of what are the alternatives to this system -- it's important to find alternatives because it turns out that the U.S. is dwindling in its petroleum reserves, but it is not dwindling in its coal reserves, nor is China. There are huge coal reserves that are sitting out there, and we've got to start thinking of them as biological energy, because if we keep treating them as chemical energy, or engineering energy, we're going to be in deep doo-doo.
這就是你的使用蠻力方法。一旦你運用 了使用蠻力的方式, 整座山頂就會被夷平。你最終就 得到了最大的碳排放來源, 即燃煤天然氣發電廠。那可能 不是對生物能源的最好的利用。 當你在思考這一體系的替代方法時 -找到替代方法是重要的, 因為實際上美國的石油儲備 在萎縮,但是煤炭儲備沒有萎縮, 中國的煤炭儲備也沒有萎縮。 煤炭的儲備糧巨大, 我們需要開始將它們設想成生物 能源,因為如果我們繼續將它們當成 化學能源,或工程能源,我們 將不知道會有什麽大麻煩。
Gas is a similar issue. Gas is also a biological product. And as you think of gas, well, you're familiar with gas. And here's a different way of mining coal. This is called coal bed methane. Why is this picture interesting? Because if coal turns out to be concentrated plant life, the reason why you may get a differential in gas output between one mine and another -- the reason why one mine may blow up and another one may not blow up -- may be because there's stuff eating that stuff and producing gas. This is a well-known phenomenon. (Laughter) You eat certain things, you produce a lot of gas. It may turn out that biological processes in coalmines have the same process. If that is true, then one of the ways of getting the energy out of coal may not be to rip whole mountaintops off, and it may not be to burn coal. It may be to have stuff process that coal in a biological fashion as you did in agriculture.
天然氣是一個相似的問題。天然氣也是生物 產品。但你想到天然氣時,你認為 你很熟悉天然氣。這是一種 採煤的不同的方法。 這叫做煤床甲烷。為什麼這張 照片有趣呢?因為煤是 濃縮的植物,你可以 在不同的煤礦得到不同的天然氣輸出量的原因- -一個煤礦可能爆炸 另一個煤礦可能不會爆炸的原因-可能是因為 這個東西吃掉那個東西並產生氣體。 這是一個眾所周知的現象。(笑聲)你 吃某些東西,你會生產大量的氣體。 可能煤礦裡的生物過程 也是一樣的。如果這是真的,那麼 從煤炭裡得到能源的方法之一 可能不是把整個山頂鏟掉, 可能不是燃燒煤炭。而可能是用 生物方法處理煤,如同 在農業上採用的方法一樣。
That is what bioenergy is. It is not ethanol. It is not subsidies to a few companies. It is not importing corn into Iowa because you've built so many of these ethanol plants. It is beginning to understand the transition that occurred in agriculture, from brute force into biological force. And in the measure that you can do that, you can clean some stuff, and you can clean it pretty quickly. We already have some indicators of productivity on this stuff. OK, if you put steam into coal fields or petroleum fields that have been running for decades, you can get a really substantial increase, like an eight-fold increase, in your output. This is just the beginning stages of this stuff.
這就是生物能源。生物能源不是乙醇。 不是對一些公司提供補貼。不是 因為建造了這麼多的乙醇工廠, 就進口玉米到愛荷華州。而是開始 瞭解農業中產生的 從蠻力到生物力量的變遷。 在那些可以採用的方法中, 你可以清潔一些東西,你可以很快的 清潔它。 我們在這方面已經有一些提高生產效率的徵兆。 如果你將蒸汽加入已經流動幾了十年的 煤田或油田, 你可以得到巨大的, 大約八倍的輸出增長。 這還只是這種技術的 初期。
And as you think of biomaterials, this guy -- who did part of the sequencing of the human genome, who just doubled the databases of genes and proteins known on earth by sailing around the world -- has been thinking about how you structure this. And there's a series of smart people thinking about this. And they've been putting together companies like Synthetic Genomics, like, a Cambria, like Codon, and what those companies are trying to do is to think of, how do you apply biological principles to avoid brute force? Think of it in the following terms. Think of it as beginning to program stuff for specific purposes. Think of the cell as a hardware. Think of the genes as a software. And in the measure that you begin to think of life as code that is interchangeable, that can become energy, that can become food, that can become fiber, that can become human beings, that can become a whole series of things, then you've got to shift your approach as to how you're going to structure and deal and think about energy in a very different way.
當你想到生物材料,這個人- -他參加了人類基因組排序的工作, 剛剛通過環遊世界的方式讓已知的基因和蛋白質庫 數據翻倍。 -也在考慮怎樣構建這個體系。 許多聰明人都 在考慮它。 他們設立了 Synthetic GenoMICS, CAMBRIA,CONDON 這樣的公司,這些公司 試圖做的是考慮怎樣運用 生物學原理來避免蠻力? 用下面的方式來思考。將它看做 開始進行特殊目的編程。 將細胞看成硬件。將 基因看成軟件。當你 開始將生命看成 可以互換的代碼,它可以變成能源,可以 變成食物,可以變成纖維,可以 變成人,可以變成一系列的 東西。那麼你就會改變你 構建,處理,思考能源問題的方式, 採用非常不同的 方式來思考能源問題。
What are the first principles of this stuff and where are we heading? This is one of the gentle giants on the planet. He's one of the nicest human beings you've ever met. His name is Hamilton Smith. He won the Nobel for figuring out how to cut genes -- something called restriction enzymes. He was at Hopkins when he did this, and he's such a modest guy that the day he won, his mother called him and said, "I didn't realize there was another Ham Smith at Hopkins. Do you know he just won the Nobel?" (Laughter) I mean, that was Mom, but anyway, this guy is just a class act. You find him at the bench every single day, working on a pipette and building stuff. And one of the things this guy just built are these things.
這裡最重要的原則是什麽, 我們走的路通向哪裡去呢? 這是這個星球上的一個溫和的巨人。他是你遇到的 最好的人之一。他的名字是漢密爾頓 斯密斯。他因為找出了怎樣分割基因的方法 得到了諾貝爾獎-一種叫限制性內切酶的東西。 當他做這事時是在霍普金斯大學,他是 一個如此謙虛的人,在他得獎的那一天,他的母親 打電話說,“我不知道霍普金斯大學還有一個叫漢密爾頓斯密斯 的人。你知道他剛剛 得到了諾貝爾獎嗎?”(笑聲)我的意思是,那是他的母親。 但是無論如何,這個人只是一類人中的一個。 他每天都在工作臺前, 用微量吸管工作,建構東西。 這個人在建造的東西中的一個 就是這些東西。
What is this? This is the first transplant of naked DNA, where you take an entire DNA operating system out of one cell, insert it into a different cell, and have that cell boot up as a separate species. That's one month old. You will see stuff in the next month that will be just as important as this stuff. And as you think about this stuff and what the implications of this are, we're going to start not just converting ethanol from corn with very high subsidies. We're going to start thinking about biology entering energy. It is very expensive to process this stuff, both in economic terms and in energy terms.
這是什麽呢?這是純DNA的第一次 移植,你將整個DNA運作系統從細胞里 分離出來,將它植入不同的 細胞裡,讓那個細胞成長為一個不同的 物種。它一個月大。在下一個月,你會看到和 這一樣重要的 東西。 當你思考這種東西 及其暗示時,我們將開始不再會 僅僅使用高補貼將玉米變成乙醇。 我們將開始思考生物學進入 能源領域。處理這種東西是 非常昂貴的,在經濟和能源的意義上 都是這樣。
This is what accumulates in the tar sands of Alberta. These are sulfur blocks. Because as you separate that petroleum from the sand, and use an enormous amount of energy inside that vapor -- steam to separate this stuff -- you also have to separate out the sulfur. The difference between light crude and heavy crude -- well, it's about 14 bucks a barrel. That's why you're building these pyramids of sulfur blocks. And by the way, the scale on these things is pretty large.
這是阿爾貝塔省的油砂裡聚集的東西。 這些是硫磺塊。因為當你 將石油從沙裡分離出來時,使用蒸汽你 要使用大量的能量 來分離石油-你也不得不 將硫分離出來。 這是輕原油和重原油 的區別-這區別大約是一桶14美元。 這就是你在建造 這些硫磺金字塔的原因。順便說一下, 它的規模相當大。
Now, if you can take part of the energy content out of doing this, you reduce the system, and you really do start applying biological principles to energy. This has to be a bridge to the point where you can get to wind, to the point where you can get to solar, to the point where you can get to nuclear -- and hopefully you won't build the next nuclear plant on a beautiful seashore next to an earthquake fault. (Laughter) Just a thought.
現在, 如果你可以將從事這種工作 消耗的能源減少一部份,你就簡化了體系, 你就真的開始在將生物學原理用在能源上了。 這是一個橋樑,通過它, 我們可以 將應用延伸到風能,延伸到 太陽能,延伸到 核能-這樣你就有希望不用再在有地震危險的 美麗的海濱建設 核電廠了。(笑聲)。只是一個想法。
But in the meantime, for the next decade at least, the name of the game is hydrocarbons. And be that oil, be that gas, be that coal, this is what we're dealing with. And before I make this talk too long, here's what's happening in the current energy system. 86 percent of the energy we consume are hydrocarbons. That means 86 percent of the stuff we're consuming are probably processed plants and amoebas and the rest of the stuff. And there's a role in here for conservation. There's a role in here for alternative stuff, but we've also got to get that other portion right. How we deal with that other portion is our bridge to the future. And as we think of this bridge to the future, one of the things you should ponder is: we are leaving about two-thirds of the oil today inside those wells. So we're spending an enormous amount of money and leaving most of the energy down there. Which, of course, requires more energy to go out and get energy. The ratios become idiotic by the time you get to ethanol. It may even be a one-to-one ratio on the energy input and the energy output. That is a stupid way of managing this system.
但是同時,至少下一個十年, 遊戲的主角名字的是烴。無論那是 石油,是天然氣,是煤,這是我們正在 使用的。 在我講得太長之前, 這是正在現在的能源體系里 發生的。 我們消耗的百分之八十六的能源是 烴。這意味著我們消費的百分之八十六的能源 可能是植物和 變形蟲和其他的東西演化而來的。 在這裡資源保護有它的作用,替代能源有它的作用。 但是我們也要 把其它的那部份做好。 我們怎樣處理那個部份是我們通向 未來的橋樑。 你應該思考的一件事是: 我們在這些井裡留下了三分之二的 石油。 所以我們花費了大量的 金錢,卻讓大部份的能源留在 那下面。 這當然需要更多的能源 來開採能源。 消耗在開採上的能源與產出的能源的比例 在你到達提煉乙醇這一步時已經顯得愚蠢了。 能源的投入和輸出比例甚至會達到 一比一。 這樣管理這個體系是一種 愚蠢的方法。
Last point, last graph. One of the things that we've got to do is to stabilize oil prices. This is what oil prices look like, OK? This is a very bad system because what happens is your hurdle rate gets set very low. People come up with really smart ideas for solar panels, or for wind, or for something else, and then guess what? The oil price goes through the floor. That company goes out of business, and then you can bring the oil price back up.
最後一點, 最後一個說明圖。我們要做的 一件事是穩定石油價格。 這是石油價格看起來象什麽樣子,好吧? 這是非常糟糕的體系,因為你的 最低回報率被定得很低。例如,當有人 有真的聰明的關於太陽能電池板,或風能,或別的東西的 主意的時候,猜一猜會怎樣? 油價跌到了最低點。這個公司 就倒閉,然後你可以再將 油價提高。
So if I had one closing and modest suggestion, let's set a stable oil price in Europe and the United States. How do you do that? Well, let's put a tax on oil that is a non-revenue tax, and it basically says for the next 20 years, the price of oil will be -- whatever you want, 35 bucks, 40 bucks. If the OPEC price falls below that, we tax it. If the OPEC price goes above that, the tax goes away. What does that do for entrepreneurs? What does it do for companies? It tells people, if you can produce energy for less than 35 bucks a barrel, or less than 40 bucks a barrel, or less than 50 bucks a barrel -- let's debate it -- you will have a business. But let's not put people through this cycle where it doesn't pay to research because your company will go out of business as OPEC drives alternatives and keeps bioenergy from happening. Thank you.
所以如果我可以用一個謙虛的建議來結束我的談話 那就是讓我們在歐洲和美國建立一個穩定的油價。 怎麼做呢?讓我們 對石油徵收一項非收入稅類的稅, 基本上就是說下一個二十年,石油的 價格將是-你想要的任何價格,35美元,40美元。 如果OPEC的價格低於這個價格,我們就 收稅。如果OPEC價格高於這個價格,就不 收稅。 這對企業家有什麽好處呢? 這對 公司有什麽好處呢? 它告訴人們,如果你可以 生產價格低於於35美元一桶的能源,或少於 40美元一桶,或少於50美元 一桶-這是我們可以討論的-你將會 有生意。但是讓我們不要把人們置於 這樣的一個循環,即做研究是沒有回報的,因為 你的公司會破產,因為OPEC 控制了替代能源而讓生物能源 不能成功。 謝謝。