Frank Gehry: I listened to this scientist this morning. Dr. Mullis was talking about his experiments, and I realized that I almost became a scientist. When I was 14 my parents bought me a chemistry set and I decided to make water. (Laughter) So, I made a hydrogen generator and I made an oxygen generator, and I had the two pipes leading into a beaker and I threw a match in. (Laughter) And the glass -- luckily I turned around -- I had it all in my back and I was about 15 feet away. The wall was covered with ... I had an explosion.
Frank Gehry: Slušao sam jutros jednog znanstvenika. Dr. Mullis je govorio o svojim eksperimentima i shvatio sam da sam gotovo postao znanstvenik. Kad mi je bilo 14, roditelji su mi kupili pribor za kemiju. I ja sam odlučio napraviti vodu. (Smijeh) Izradio sam generator vodika i generator kisika. Dvije su cijevi vodile u epruvetu, a ja sam u nju ubacio šibicu. (Smijeh) I čaša --.srećom, okrenuo sam se -- Leđa su mi bila puna, a bio sam udaljen oko pet metara. Zid je bio prekriven... Eksplodiralo je.
Richard Saul Wurman: Really?
Richard Saul Wurman: Zbilja?
FG: People on the street came and knocked on the door to see if I was okay. RSW: ... huh. (Laughter)
FG: Ljudi su izvana došli i lupali na vrata ne bi li vidjeli jesam li dobro. RSW: ... ha. (Smijeh)
I'd like to start this session again. The gentleman to my left is the very famous, perhaps overly famous, Frank Gehry. (Laughter) (Applause) And Frank, you've come to a place in your life, which is astonishing. I mean it is astonishing for an artist, for an architect, to become actually an icon and a legend in their own time. I mean you have become, whether you can giggle at it because it's a funny ... you know, it's a strange thought, but your building is an icon -- you can draw a little picture of that building, it can be used in ads -- and you've had not rock star status, but celebrity status in doing what you wanted to do for most of your life. And I know the road was extremely difficult. And it didn't seem, at least, that your sell outs, whatever they were, were very big. You kept moving ahead in a life where you're dependent on working for somebody. But that's an interesting thing for a creative person. A lot of us work for people; we're in the hands of other people. And that's one of the great dilemmas -- we're in a creativity session -- it's one of the great dilemmas in creativity: how to do work that's big enough and not sell out. And you've achieved that and that makes your win doubly big, triply big. It's not quite a question but you can comment on it. It's a big issue.
Volio bih ovaj razgovor započeti ponovno. Gospodin s moje lijeve strane vrlo je slavan, možda suviše slavan, Frank Gehry. (Smijeh) (Pljesak) I Frank, došao si do točke u životu, koja je zadivljujuća. Mislim, zadivljujuće je za umjetnika, za arhitekta, postati istinska ikona i legenda još za života. Hoću reći, postao si, smijao se ti tome ili ne, jer je smiješno... znaš, neobična je to misao... Ali, tvoja je zgrada ikona... Možete nacrtati sličicu te zgrade, koristiti je u oglasima -- Imao si i status ne rock-zvijezde, nego celebrityja u onome što si čitavog života želio raditi. A znam da je put do toga bio izrazito težak. Nije se činilo da su tvoji ustupci, kakvi god bili, bili odviše veliki. Nastavio si svojim putem ka životu u kojemu ovisiš o radu za nekoga drugoga. No, to je vrlo zanimljivo za jednu kreativnu osobu. Puno nas radi za druge ljude; u rukama smo drugih ljudi. To je jedna od velikih dvojbi -- a sad govorimo o kreativnosti -- to je jedna od velikih dvojbi glede kreativnosti: Kako raditi dovoljno značajne stvari i pritom se ne "prodati"? Ti si u tome uspio i to tvoj uspjeh čini dvostruko, trostruko većim. Ovo nije baš pitanje, ali možeš prokomentirati. Velik je to problem.
FG: Well, I've always just ... I've never really gone out looking for work. I always waited for it to sort of hit me on the head. And when I started out, I thought that architecture was a service business and that you had to please the clients and stuff. And I realized when I'd come into the meetings with these corrugated metal and chain link stuff, and people would just look at me like I'd just landed from Mars. But I couldn't do anything else. That was my response to the people in the time. And actually, it was responding to clients that I had who didn't have very much money, so they couldn't afford very much. I think it was circumstantial.
FG: Pa, uvijek sam... Nisam nikad, zapravo, tražio posao. Uvijek sam čekao da me, na neki način, strefi u glavu. I kad sam počinjao, mislio sam da je arhitektura uslužna industrija, i da trebamo udovoljiti klijentu, i slično. Shvatio sam kad bih dolazio na sastanke s tim valovitim limovima i žičanim mrežama, i ljudi bi me samo gledali kao da sam sletio s Marsa. Ja, jednostavno, nisam mogao raditi išta drugo. U to doba, to je bio moj odgovor ljudima. Ustvari, bilo je to odgovaranje onim mojim klijentima koji nisu imali osobito mnogo novca, pa si i nisu previše mogli priuštiti. Mislim da je ovisilo o okolnostima.
Until I got to my house, where the client was my wife. We bought this tiny little bungalow in Santa Monica and for like 50 grand I built a house around it. And a few people got excited about it. I was visiting with an artist, Michael Heizer, out in the desert near Las Vegas somewhere. He's building this huge concrete place. And it was late in the evening. We'd had a lot to drink. We were standing out in the desert all alone and, thinking about my house, he said, "Did it ever occur to you if you built stuff more permanent, somewhere in 2000 years somebody's going to like it?" (Laughter) So, I thought, "Yeah, that's probably a good idea." Luckily I started to get some clients that had a little more money, so the stuff was a little more permanent. But I just found out the world ain't going to last that long, this guy was telling us the other day. So where do we go now? Back to -- everything's so temporary.
Sve dok se nije radilo o mojoj kući, pri čemu je klijentica bila moja supruga. Kupili smo tu sićušnu prizemnicu za odmor u Santa Monici, i za nekih 50 tisuća izgradio sam kuću oko nje. I nekoliko se ljudi uzbudilo zbog nje. S umjetnikom Michaelom Heizerom bio sam u obilasku negdje u pustinji, blizu Las Vegasa. Gradio je neku veliku betonsku kuću. Bilo je kasno uvečer. Dosta smo i popili. Stajali smo vani, u pustinji, posve sami, i, razmišljajući o svojoj kući, rekao sam: "Jesi li ikad pomislio da budeš li gradio trajnije objekte, nekome će se za nekih 2000 godina to i svidjeti." (Smijeh) Pomislio sam: "A-ha, to je vjerojatno dobra ideja." Nasreću, počeo sam pribavljati klijente s malo više novca, pa su i objekti bili malo trajniji. No, upravo sam shvatio da svijet neće trajati toliko dugo, kao što nam je onaj dečko govorio neki dan. Dakle, kamo sada? Natrag prema -- sve je tako prolazno.
I don't see it the way you characterized it. For me, every day is a new thing. I approach each project with a new insecurity, almost like the first project I ever did, and I get the sweats, I go in and start working, I'm not sure where I'm going -- if I knew where I was going, I wouldn't do it. When I can predict or plan it, I don't do it. I discard it. So I approach it with the same trepidation. Obviously, over time I have a lot more confidence that it's going to be OK. I do run a kind of a business -- I've got 120 people and you've got to pay them, so there's a lot of responsibility involved -- but the actual work on the project is with, I think, a healthy insecurity.
Ne vidim to baš tako kako si ti opisao. Za mene je svaki dan novina. Svakom projektu prilazim iznova nesiguran, gotovo kao prvom svom projektu. I znojim se, uhvatim se s tim ukoštac i započnem raditi -- kad bih znao kamo idem, ne bih to radio. Kad mogu predvidjeti ili isplanirati, ja to ne radim. Odbacujem takav projekt. Dakle, pristupam mu s uvijek istom drhtavicom. Očito, tijekom vremena stekao sam puno više pouzdanja da će sve biti u redu. Vodim svojevrsni posao -- Imam 120 ljudi koje moram plaćati, što znači da tu ima poprilično odgovornosti -- ali, stvaran rad na projektu odvija se u, mislim, zdravoj neizvjesnosti.
And like the playwright said the other day -- I could relate to him: you're not sure. When Bilbao was finished and I looked at it, I saw all the mistakes, I saw ... They weren't mistakes; I saw everything that I would have changed and I was embarrassed by it. I felt an embarrassment -- "How could I have done that? How could I have made shapes like that or done stuff like that?" It's taken several years to now look at it detached and say -- as you walk around the corner and a piece of it works with the road and the street, and it appears to have a relationship -- that I started to like it.
I kao što je neki dan dramski pisac rekao -- Mogu ga razumjeti: Niste sigurni. Nakon što je muzej u Bilbau bio završen, i kad sam ga pogledao, vidio sam sve pogreške, vidio sam... To nisu bile pogreške; vidio sam što sam sve poželio promijeniti i bilo mi je neugodno zbog toga. Nisam mogao vjerovati -- "Kako sam to mogao učiniti? Kako sam mogao napraviti takve oblike ili učiniti takve stvari?" Trebalo mi je nekoliko godina da ga nepristrano pogledam i kažem -- dok ga zaobilaziš oko ugla i jedan je dio u skladu s cestom i s ulicom, i čini se da je u odnosu -- koji mi se počeo sviđati.
RSW: What's the status of the New York project?
RSW: Kakav je status njujorškog projekta?
FG: I don't really know. Tom Krens came to me with Bilbao and explained it all to me, and I thought he was nuts. I didn't think he knew what he was doing, and he pulled it off. So, I think he's Icarus and Phoenix all in one guy. (Laughter) He gets up there and then he ... comes back up. They're still talking about it. September 11 generated some interest in moving it over to Ground Zero, and I'm totally against that. I just feel uncomfortable talking about or building anything on Ground Zero I think for a long time.
FG: Doista ne znam. Tom Krens mi je objasnio cijeli projekt u Bilbau, i pomislio sam da je lud. Nisam mislio da zna što radi, ali uspio ga je provesti u djelo. Zato, mislim da je on i Ikar i Feniks, u jednoj osobi. (Smijeh) On se diže i onda se... ponovno podiže. Još se uvijek o tome priča. 11. rujna je potaknuo izvjesno zanimanje za njegovo premještanje na Nultu Točku, ali ja sam izrazito protiv toga. Jednostavno, nelagodno mi je govoriti o tome ili išta graditi na Nultoj Točki; zadugo, mislim.
RSW: The picture on the screen, is that Disney?
RSW: Fotografija na ekranu, je li to Disney?
FG: Yeah.
FG: Je.
RSW: How much further along is it than that, and when will that be finished?
RSW: Koliko još preostaje izgradnje i kad će ovo biti dovršeno?
FG: That will be finished in 2003 -- September, October -- and I'm hoping Kyu, and Herbie, and Yo-Yo and all those guys come play with us at that place. Luckily, today most of the people I'm working with are people I really like. Richard Koshalek is probably one of the main reasons that Disney Hall came to me. He's been a cheerleader for quite a long time. There aren't many people around that are really involved with architecture as clients. If you think about the world, and even just in this audience, most of us are involved with buildings. Nothing that you would call architecture, right? And so to find one, a guy like that, you hang on to him. He's become the head of Art Center, and there's a building by Craig Ellwood there. I knew Craig and respected him. They want to add to it and it's hard to add to a building like that -- it's a beautiful, minimalist, black steel building -- and Richard wants to add a library and more student stuff and it's a lot of acreage. I convinced him to let me bring in another architect from Portugal: Alvaro Siza.
FG: Bit će dovršeno 2003 -- u rujnu, listopad -- Nadam se da će Kyu, Herbie, Yo-Yo i svi ti momci doći igrati se s nama na tom mjestu. Nasreću, većinu ljudi s kojima danas radim ja doista i volim. Richard Koshalek je vjerojatno jedan od najzaslužnijih što mi je pristupio Disney Hall. Navijao je poprilično dugo. Nema mnogo ljudi koji su stvarno vezani uz arhitekturu kao klijenti. Razmislite li o svijetu, pa čak i samo u ovoj publici, većina je nas vezana uza zgrade. Ništa što biste nazvali arhitekturom, zar ne? Zato da biste našli jednog, momka poput njega, držat ćete ga se. Postao je prvi čovjek Umjetničkog centra; ondje je zgrada Craiga Elwooda. Poznavao sam Craiga i poštivao ga. Željeli su joj nešto pridodati, a takvoj je građevini teško išta dodati -- To je prelijepa, minimalistička zgrada, od crnoga čelika -- Richard želi pridodati knjižnicu i više nekih studentskih sadržaja, a to zahtijeva dosta površine. Uvjerio sam ga da mi dopusti dovesti jednog arhitekta iz Portugala - Alvara Sizu.
RSW: Why did you want that?
RSW: Zašto si to želio?
FG: I knew you'd ask that question.
FG: Znao sam da ćeš postaviti to pitanje.
It was intuitive. (Laughter)
Bilo je to intuitivno. (Smijeh)
Alvaro Siza grew up and lived in Portugal and is probably considered the Portuguese main guy in architecture. I visited with him a few years ago and he showed me his early work, and his early work had a resemblance to my early work. When I came out of college, I started to try to do things contextually in Southern California, and you got into the logic of Spanish colonial tile roofs and things like that. I tried to understand that language as a beginning, as a place to jump off, and there was so much of it being done by spec builders and it was trivialized so much that it wasn't ... I just stopped. I mean, Charlie Moore did a bunch of it, but it didn't feel good to me. Siza, on the other hand, continued in Portugal where the real stuff was and evolved a modern language that relates to that historic language. And I always felt that he should come to Southern California and do a building. I tried to get him a couple of jobs and they didn't pan out. I like the idea of collaboration with people like that because it pushes you. I've done it with Claes Oldenburg and with Richard Serra, who doesn't think architecture is art. Did you see that thing? RSW: No. What did he say?
Alvaro Siza odrastao je i živio u Portugalu, i vjerojatno je najvažniji portugalski arhitekt. Posjetio sam ga prije nekoliko godina i on mi je pokazao svoje rane radove, A njegovi su rani radovi nalikovali mojima. Pošto sam završio koledž, započeo sam raditi kontekstualno, u južnoj Kaliforniji. Tako uvidite logiku španjolskih kolonijalnih krovova od opeke, i sličnih stvari. Nastojao sam razumjeti taj jezik kao početak, kao točku za odskok, Ondje su toliko toga gradili špekulativni građevinari, i toliko je toga bilo trivijalizirano da nije bilo... Jednostavno sam prestao. Hoću reći, Charlie Moore napravio je toliko toga, ali meni se to nije činilo dobrim. Naprotiv, Siza je nastavio u Portugalu, gdje su se zbivale prave stvari, i razvio suvremen jezik koji je povezan s povijesnim jezikom. Oduvijek sam osjećao da bi on trebao doći u južnu Kaliforniju i izgraditi zgradu. Nastojao sam mu pribaviti par poslova, ali nije ispalo dobro. Sviđa mi se zamisao o suradnji s takvim ljudima, jer vas to tjera naprijed. Radio sam s Claesom Oldenburgom i s Richardom Serrom, Koji ne misli da je arhitektura umjetnost. Jesi li vidio to? RSW: Ne. Što je rekao?
FG: He calls architecture "plumbing." (Laughter)
FG: Arhitekturu naziva "instalaterstvom". (Smijeh)
FG: Anyway, the Siza thing. It's a richer experience. It must be like that for Kyu doing things with musicians -- it's similar to that I would imagine -- where you ... huh?
FG: Kako god, Siza. Iskustvo je bogatije. Vjerojatno je to tako i kad Kyu radi s glazbenicima -- Pretpostavljam da je slično tome -- kad vi... ha?
Audience: Liquid architecture.
Publika: Protočna arhitektura.
FG: Liquid architecture. (Laughter) Where you ... It's like jazz: you improvise, you work together, you play off each other, you make something, they make something. And I think for me, it's a way of trying to understand the city and what might happen in the city.
FG: Protočna arhitektura. (Smijeh) Kad vi... To je poput jazza: improvizirate, radite zajedno, nadigravate se međusobno, vi stvorite nešto, oni stvore nešto. I mislim po meni, to je način da pokušate razumjeti grad i što se u gradu može dogoditi.
RSW: Is it going to be near the current campus? Or is it going to be down near ...
RSW: Hoće li biti u blizini sadašnjeg kampusa? Ili će biti dolje, bliže...
FG: No, it's near the current campus. Anyway, he's that kind of patron. It's not his money, of course. (Laughter)
FG: Ne, blizu je sadašnjeg kampusa. Svejedno, on je takav pokrovitelj. Nije njegov novac, naravno. (Smijeh)
RSW: What's his schedule on that?
RSW: Kakav mu je plan po tom pitanju?
FG: I don't know. What's the schedule, Richard? Richard Koshalek: [Unclear] starts from 2004.
FG: Ne znam. Kakav je plan, Richarde? Richard Koshalek: [Nejasno] započinje 2004.
FG: 2004. You can come to the opening. I'll invite you. No, but the issue of city building in democracy is interesting because it creates chaos, right? Everybody doing their thing makes a very chaotic environment, and if you can figure out how to work off each other -- if you can get a bunch of people who respect each other's work and play off each other, you might be able to create models for how to build sections of the city without resorting to the one architect. Like the Rockefeller Center model, which is kind of from another era.
FG: 2004. Možeš doći na otvorenje. Pozvat ću te. Ne, ali problematika izgradnje gradova u demokraciji zanimljiva je, jer njome se stvara kaos, zar ne? Svatko tko radi svoj posao doprinosi stvaranju kaotičnog okoliša, i ako se možete dosjetiti kako izraditi jedni druge... Ako možete okupiti skupinu ljudi koji međusobno poštuju ono što drugi rade i nadigravaju se međusobno, mogli biste stvoriti modele gradnji gradskih četvrti a da pritom ne pribjegavate samo jednom arhitektu, poput modela gradnje Rockefellerovog centra, koji kao da je iz nekog drugog doba.
RSW: I found the most remarkable thing. My preconception of Bilbao was this wonderful building, you go inside and there'd be extraordinary spaces. I'd seen drawings you had presented here at TED. The surprise of Bilbao was in its context to the city. That was the surprise of going across the river, of going on the highway around it, of walking down the street and finding it. That was the real surprise of Bilbao.
RSW: Otkrio sam nešto posve izvanredno. Moja predrasuda o muzeju u Bilbau bila je ta čudesna zgrada - ulaziš u nju, a ondje sav taj izvanredan prostor... Vidio sam crteže koje si prezentirao ovdje, na TED-u. Iznenađujuće kod tog Bilbaa bio je taj njegov položaj prema gradu. Bilo je to iznenađenje prelaska rijeke, odlaska na auto-cestu oko njega, hodanja ulicom i pronalaženja muzeja. To je bilo istinski iznenađujuće kod Bilbaa.
FG: But you know, Richard, most architects when they present their work -- most of the people we know, you get up and you talk about your work, and it's almost like you tell everybody you're a good guy by saying, "Look, I'm worried about the context, I'm worried about the city, I'm worried about my client, I worry about budget, that I'm on time." Blah, blah, blah and all that stuff. And it's like cleansing yourself so that you can ... by saying all that, it means your work is good somehow. And I think everybody -- I mean that should be a matter of fact, like gravity. You're not going to defy gravity. You've got to work with the building department. If you don't meet the budgets, you're not going to get much work. If it leaks -- Bilbao did not leak. I was so proud. (Laughter) The MIT project -- they were interviewing me for MIT and they sent their facilities people to Bilbao. I met them in Bilbao. They came for three days.
FG: Ali, znaš, Richarde, većina arhitekata, kad predstavljaju svoj rad, većina ljudi koje poznajemo, Ustanete i govorite o svome radu; to je gotovo kao da svima govorite kako ste dobar lik, govoreći: "Gledajte, zabrinut sam za kontekst, zabrinut sam za grad, zabrinut sam za svog klijenta, muči me i budžet, stižem li sve napraviti..." Bla, bla, bla i koješta tome slično. To sliči čišćenju samoga sebe kako biste... Izgovarajući sve to, čini se da je to što radite na neki način dobro. I mislim da svi -- To bi trebala biti činjenica, poput gravitacije. Nećete prkositi gravitaciji. Morate raditi s odsjekom za gradnju. Prekoračujete li budžete, nećete sklapati puno poslova. Procuri li -- Bilbao nije procurio. Silno sam bio ponosan. (Smijeh) Projekt MIT-a -- Intervjuirali su me za MIT i poslali u Bilbao svoje ljude za održavanje objekata. Sreo sam ih u Bilbau. Došli su na tri dana.
RSW: This is the computer building?
RSW: To je računalno konstruiranje?
FG: Yeah, the computer building. They were there three days and it rained every day and they kept walking around -- I noticed they were looking under things and looking for things, and they wanted to know where the buckets were hidden, you know? People put buckets out ... I was clean. There wasn't a bloody leak in the place, it was just fantastic. But you've got to -- yeah, well up until then every building leaked, so this ... (Laughter)
FG: Je, računalno konstruiranje. Bili su ondje tri dana i kiša je padala svaki dan... I oni su obilazili i obilazili -- Primijetio sam da su zagledavali ispod, da su tražili koješta, željeli su doznati gdje su kante skrivene, znaš? Ljudi ostavljaju kante -- Bio sam čist. Nije bilo jedne jedine pukotine; bilo je to jednostavno fantastično. Ali, morate -- da, sve dotad svaka je građevina procurila, pa je ovo... (Smijeh)
RSW: Frank had a sort of ...
RSW: Frank je...
FG: Ask Miriam!
FG: Pitaj Miriam!
RW: ... sort of had a fame. His fame was built on that in L.A. for a while. (Laughter)
RSW: ... na neki način bio slavan. Njegova je slava bila izgrađena na tome, neko vrijeme u L.A.-u. (Smijeh)
FG: You've all heard the Frank Lloyd Wright story, when the woman called and said, "Mr. Wright, I'm sitting on the couch and the water's pouring in on my head." And he said, "Madam, move your chair." (Laughter) So, some years later I was doing a building, a little house on the beach for Norton Simon, and his secretary, who was kind of a hell on wheels type lady, called me and said, "Mr. Simon's sitting at his desk and the water's coming in on his head." And I told her the Frank Lloyd Wright story.
FG: Svi ste čuli priču o Franku Lloydu Wrightu, kad je žena nazvala i rekla: "G. Wright, sjedim na ležaju i voda mi se slijeva na glavu." A on je odgovorio: "Gospođo, pomaknite fotelju." (Smijeh) Nekoliko godina kasnije gradio sam kućicu na plaži, za Nortona Simona. Njegova tajnica, svojevrsna ženska Sodoma i Gomora, nazvala me i rekla: "G. Simon sjedi za svojim stolom i voda mu kaplje po glavi." Ispričao sam joj priču Franka Lloyda Wrighta.
RSW: Didn't get a laugh.
RSW: Nije se nasmijala?
FG: No. Not now either. (Laughter)
FG: Ne. Ni sada ovdje. (Smijeh)
But my point is that ... and I call it the "then what?" OK, you solved all the problems, you did all the stuff, you made nice, you loved your clients, you loved the city, you're a good guy, you're a good person ... and then what? What do you bring to it? And I think that's what I've always been interested in, is that -- which is a personal kind of expression. Bilbao, I think, shows that you can have that kind of personal expression and still touch all the bases that are necessary of fitting into the city. That's what reminded me of it. And I think that's the issue, you know; it's the "then what" that most clients who hire architects -- most clients aren't hiring architects for that. They're hiring them to get it done, get it on budget, be polite, and they're missing out on the real value of an architect.
Ali, ono što sam želio reći... Nazvao sam to "I što sad?". Dobro, riješili ste sve probleme, napravili ste sve, lijepo to izveli, voljeli ste svoje klijente, voljeli grad, dobar ste lik, dobra ste osoba... I što sad? Što tad činite? Mislim da je to nešto što me oduvijek zanimalo, To je.-- neka vrlo osobna vrsta ekspresije. Mislim da Bilbao dokazuje da se možete osobno izraziti i pritom obuhvatiti sve što je nužno za uklapanje u grad. Na to me je to podsjetilo. I mislim da je tu problem, znaš; taj "I što sad?" što većina klijenata koji angažiraju arhitekte -- većina klijenata ne angažira arhitekte radi toga. Angažiraju ih da realiziraju željeno, da to učine u okviru budžeta, da budu uljudni, i tako propuštaju iskoristiti stvarnu vrijednost arhitekta.
RSW: At a certain point a number of years ago, people -- when Michael Graves was a fashion, before teapots ...
RSW: U određenom trenutku, prije dosta godina, ljudi -- dok je Michael Graves bio u modi, prije čajnika...
FG: I did a teapot and nobody bought it. (Laughter)
FG: Ja sam izradio čajnik i nitko ga nije kupio. (Smijeh)
RSW: Did it leak?
RSW: Je li propuštao?!
FG: No. (Laughter)
FG: Nije. (Smijeh)
RSW: ... people wanted a Michael Graves building. Is that a curse, that people want a Bilbao building?
RSW: ... ljudi su željeli kuću tipa "Michael Graves". Je li to kletva što ljudi žele zgradu poput Bilbaa?
FG: Yeah. Since Bilbao opened, which is now four, five years, both Krens and I have been called with at least 100 opportunities -- China, Brazil, other parts of Spain -- to come in and do the Bilbao effect. And I've met with some of these people. Usually I say no right away, but some of them come with pedigree and they sound well-intentioned and they get you for at least one or two meetings. In one case, I flew all the way to Malaga with a team because the thing was signed with seals and various very official seals from the city, and that they wanted me to come and do a building in their port. I asked them what kind of building it was. "When you get here we'll explain it." Blah, blah, blah. So four of us went. And they took us -- they put us up in a great hotel and we were looking over the bay, and then they took us in a boat out in the water and showed us all these sights in the harbor. Each one was more beautiful than the other. And then we were going to have lunch with the mayor and we were going to have dinner with the most important people in Malaga. Just before going to lunch with the mayor, we went to the harbor commissioner. It was a table as long as this carpet and the harbor commissioner was here, and I was here, and my guys. We sat down, and we had a drink of water and everybody was quiet. And the guy looked at me and said, "Now what can I do for you, Mr. Gehry?" (Laughter)
FG: Je. Otkad je otvoren muzej u Bilbau - sad je tome već četiri, pet godina - i Krensu i meni ponudili su barem stotinjak prilika -- u Kini, Brazilu, drugim dijelovima Španjolske -- da dođemo i izazovemo "Bilbao-efekt". I susreo sam se s nekima od ovih ljudi. Obično odmah kažem "Ne", ali neki od njih stignu s pedigreom zvuče dobronamjerno, i dobiju vas na barem jedan ili dva sastanka. U jednom slučaju, letio sam sve do Malage s timom, jer sve je bilo potpisano i zapečaćeno, među njima i nekim vrlo službenim gradskim pečatima. Željeli su da dođem i izgradim zgradu u njihovoj luci. Pitao sam ih kakva je to zgrada bila. "Kad stignete ovamo, objasnit ćemo Vam." Bla, bla, bla. I tako je nas četvero otišlo. Smjestili su nas u sjajan hotel, s pogledom na zaljev. Povezli su nas čamcem i pokazali nam sve te njihove lučke vizure. Svaka je bila ljepša od prethodne. Potom smo trebali ručati s gradonačelnikom, pa onda i večerati s najvažnijim ljudima Malage. Netom prije odlaska na ručak s gradonačelnikom, posjetili smo lučkog upravitelja. Bio je ondje stol dug poput ovog tepiha, i lučki upravitelj je bio tu, ja sam bio ovdje, i moji dečki. Sjedili smo, popili vode, i svi su utihnuli. Čovjek me pogledao i rekao: "Što mogu učiniti za Vas, g. Gehry?" (Smijeh)
RSW: Oh, my God. FG: So, I got up. I said to my team, "Let's get out of here." We stood up, we walked out. They followed -- the guy that dragged us there followed us and he said, "You mean you're not going to have lunch with the mayor?" I said, "Nope." "You're not going to have dinner at all?" They just brought us there to hustle this group, you know, to create a project. And we get a lot of that. Luckily, I'm old enough that I can complain I can't travel. (Laughter) I don't have my own plane yet.
RSW: O, Bože. FG: Ustao sam. Rekao sam svom timu: "Idemo odavde." Ustali smo i otišli. Krenuli su za nama -- Tip koji nas je doveo, pratio nas je i rekao: "Znači li ovo da nećete na ručak s gradonačelnikom?" Rekao sam: "Nećemo." "Nećete ni na večeru?" Doveli su nas onamo da izguramo tu grupu, znaš, da stvorimo projekt. I toga ima dosta. Srećom, dovoljno sam star da se mogu požaliti kako ne mogu putovati... (Smijeh) Nemam još vlastiti avion.
RSW: Well, I'm going to wind this up and wind up the meeting because it's been very long. But let me just say a couple words.
RSW: Dakle, zaključio bih ovo i zaključio bih sastanak, jer se poprilično oduljio, ali dopusti mi samo par riječi.
FG: Can I say something? Are you going to talk about me or you? (Laughter) (Applause)
FG: Mogu li ja nešto reći? Hoćeš li govoriti o meni ili o sebi? (Smijeh) (Pljesak)
RSW: Once a shit, always a shit!
RSW: Jednom govno, uvijek govno!
FG: Because I want to get a standing ovation like everybody, so ...
FG: Jer i ja, kao i svi, priželjkujem ovacije, pa...
RSW: You're going to get one! You're going to get one! (Laughter)
RSW: Dobit ćeš jedne! Dobit ćeš jedne! (Smijeh)
I'm going to make it for you!
Ja ću ti ih priuštiti!
FG: No, no. Wait a minute! (Applause)
FG: Nemoj, nemoj! Pričekaj trenutak! (Pljesak)