To understand the business of mythology and what a Chief Belief Officer is supposed to do, you have to hear a story of Ganesha, the elephant-headed god who is the scribe of storytellers, and his brother, the athletic warlord of the gods, Kartikeya. The two brothers one day decided to go on a race, three times around the world. Kartikeya leapt on his peacock and flew around the continents and the mountains and the oceans. He went around once, he went around twice, he went around thrice. But his brother, Ganesha, simply walked around his parents once, twice, thrice, and said, "I won." "How come?" said Kartikeya. And Ganesha said, "You went around 'the world.' I went around 'my world.'" What matters more?
要了解什麼是神話, 以及一位首席精神領袖應該要做什麼, 你必須要聽一個故事 有關格涅沙, 也就是象頭神。 祂是說故事的人的書記, 還有祂的弟弟, 那矯健的戰神, 迦帝羯耶。 有一天兩兄弟決定要來個比賽, 看誰最快繞世界三圈。 迦帝羯耶跳上孔雀, 飛過各大洲, 飛過群山四海, 一圈, 兩圈, 三圈, 但格涅沙 只有繞著父母走。 一圈、兩圈、三圈, 然後說,我贏了。 為什麼? 迦帝羯耶說。 格涅沙說: 你繞的是外在世界。 我繞的是「我的」世界。 哪一個比較重要?
If you understand the difference between 'the world' and 'my world,' you understand the difference between logos and mythos. 'The world' is objective, logical, universal, factual, scientific. 'My world' is subjective. It's emotional. It's personal. It's perceptions, thoughts, feelings, dreams. It is the belief system that we carry. It's the myth that we live in.
如果你了解「外在世界」和「我的世界」的不同, 你就了解哲學思考和神話的不同。 「外在」世界是客觀的。 合乎邏輯的,放諸四海皆準的,事實的, 科學的。 「我的世界」是主觀的。 是情感的、私人的。 有關感知、思想、感覺和夢。 是我們遵循的信仰, 是我們所活的神話世界,
'The world' tells us how the world functions, how the sun rises, how we are born. 'My world' tells us why the sun rises, why we were born. Every culture is trying to understand itself: "Why do we exist?" And every culture comes up with its own understanding of life, its own customized version of mythology.
外在世界告訴我們這世界如何運作, 太陽如何升起, 我們如何出生。 我的世界告訴我們太陽「為何」升起 我們「為何」出生。 每個文化都試著想了解自己, 我們為什麼存在? 而且每個文化都有自己一套對生命的解釋, 符合自己需求的神話。
Culture is a reaction to nature, and this understanding of our ancestors is transmitted generation from generation in the form of stories, symbols and rituals, which are always indifferent to rationality. And so, when you study it, you realize that different people of the world have a different understanding of the world. Different people see things differently -- different viewpoints.
文化是相對於自然的產物, 而這個對於我們祖先的知識 一代傳一代, 化身為故事、符號、和儀式。 與理性完全不相干。 因此,當你研究神話,你會領悟到。 不同地方的人。 對世界有不同的理解。 每個人看事情 的角度都不一樣。
There is my world and there is your world, and my world is always better than your world, because my world, you see, is rational and yours is superstition. Yours is faith. Yours is illogical. This is the root of the clash of civilizations. It took place, once, in 326 B.C. on the banks of a river called the Indus, now in Pakistan. This river lends itself to India's name. India. Indus.
我有我的世界,你有你的世界。 我的世界永遠比你的世界好, 因為我的世界是理性的, 你的世界是迷信的。 是信仰, 是不合理的。 這就是文化之間衝突的根源。 在西元前326年時,曾經有一次這樣的衝突。 在一個叫印度斯的河岸, 現在在巴基斯坦。 印度之名就是源自於此河。 印度,印度斯。
Alexander, a young Macedonian, met there what he called a "gymnosophist," which means "the naked, wise man." We don't know who he was. Perhaps he was a Jain monk, like Bahubali over here, the Gomateshwara Bahubali whose image is not far from Mysore. Or perhaps he was just a yogi who was sitting on a rock, staring at the sky and the sun and the moon.
一位年輕的馬其頓人,亞歷山大, 在那裡遇到一位「修行者」, 意指「裸體的智者」。 我們不知道他是誰。 或許是一個耆那教徒。 就像這裡的巴乎巴立。 哥馬塔須瓦拉 巴乎巴立 長得有點像麥索爾。 或許他只是一個瑜珈修士, 坐在岩石上盯著天空, 太陽和月亮看。
Alexander asked, "What are you doing?" and the gymnosophist answered, "I'm experiencing nothingness." Then the gymnosophist asked, "What are you doing?" and Alexander said, "I am conquering the world." And they both laughed. Each one thought that the other was a fool. The gymnosophist said, "Why is he conquering the world? It's pointless." And Alexander thought, "Why is he sitting around, doing nothing? What a waste of a life."
亞歷山大問他,你在做什麼? 裸體修行者答說: 我正在感受「虛無」。 裸體靈修者問: 你呢? 亞歷山大說:我在征服這個世界。 然後他們同時笑了。 彼此都認為對方是傻子。 裸體靈修者說:他為什麼要征服世界。 毫無意義啊! 亞歷山大心想, 他為什麼要整天坐在那裡無所是事? 真是浪費生命!
To understand this difference in viewpoints, we have to understand the subjective truth of Alexander -- his myth, and the mythology that constructed it. Alexander's mother, his parents, his teacher Aristotle told him the story of Homer's "Iliad." They told him of a great hero called Achilles, who, when he participated in battle, victory was assured, but when he withdrew from the battle, defeat was inevitable. "Achilles was a man who could shape history, a man of destiny, and this is what you should be, Alexander." That's what he heard.
為了理解觀點的不同, 我們必須了解 亞歷山大主觀的真理, 他的神話和其中的神話學。 亞歷山大的母親,他的父母和老師亞里斯多德 告訴他荷馬的史詩─伊里亞德。 他們告訴他有關偉大的英雄阿基里斯的故事, 攻無不克,戰無不勝。 但是當他從戰役撤回時, 敗仗無可避免。 阿基里斯是一個能創造歷史的人, 一個已注定了偉大命運的人。 你就應該像他一樣,亞歷山大 這是他聽到了故事。
"What should you not be? You should not be Sisyphus, who rolls a rock up a mountain all day only to find the boulder rolled down at night. Don't live a life which is monotonous, mediocre, meaningless. Be spectacular! -- like the Greek heroes, like Jason, who went across the sea with the Argonauts and fetched the Golden Fleece. Be spectacular like Theseus, who entered the labyrinth and killed the bull-headed Minotaur. When you play in a race, win! -- because when you win, the exhilaration of victory is the closest you will come to the ambrosia of the gods."
你不應該變成什麼呢? 薛西弗斯。 他每天把推石頭上山, 石頭卻在晚山滾下來。 不要一成不變地生活著, 庸庸碌碌,毫無意義。 要活得轟轟烈烈, 就像希臘的英雄們, 像傑生,漂洋過海 與亞戈水手們去取金羊毛。 像賽修斯一樣勇猛, 進入迷宮殺死牛頭人。 當你參加比賽,你就要贏! 因為當你勝利時,那種興奮感 就像嚐了神的美味食物。
Because, you see, the Greeks believed you live only once, and when you die, you have to cross the River Styx. And if you have lived an extraordinary life, you will be welcomed to Elysium, or what the French call "Champs-Élysées" -- (Laughter) -- the heaven of the heroes.
因為系臘人相信, 你只活一次。 而當你死時,你必須越過冥河, 如果你過了一個很精采的人生, 極樂世界將會敞開大門歡迎你, 也就是法國人所說的「香榭大道」! (笑聲) 英雄們的天堂!
But these are not the stories that the gymnosophist heard. He heard a very different story. He heard of a man called Bharat, after whom India is called Bhārata. Bharat also conquered the world. And then he went to the top-most peak of the greatest mountain of the center of the world called Meru. And he wanted to hoist his flag to say, "I was here first." But when he reached the mountain peak, he found the peak covered with countless flags of world-conquerors before him, each one claiming "'I was here first' ... that's what I thought until I came here." And suddenly, in this canvas of infinity, Bharat felt insignificant. This was the mythology of the gymnosophist.
但是這些不是那位裸體靈修者所聽到的故事, 他聽到的故事完全不一樣。 他聽到一個叫作婆羅的人, 印度因他而被稱作婆羅多。 婆羅也征服了全世界, 然後他跑到了 世界中心的最高峰, 「美魯」頂上。 他想要豎起他的旗子說, 我是來到此地的第一人。 但當他到達峰頂時, 他發現那裡早就佈滿屬不盡的旗子, 來自那些在他之前的世界征服者, 每個人都宣稱:我是第一人。 在來到此之前,我是這麼想的。 突然間,在這幅大無限的世界畫布裡, 婆羅多感到微不足道。 這就是裸體靈修者的神話。
You see, he had heroes, like Ram -- Raghupati Ram and Krishna, Govinda Hari. But they were not two characters on two different adventures. They were two lifetimes of the same hero. When the Ramayana ends the Mahabharata begins. When Ram dies, Krishna is born. When Krishna dies, eventually he will be back as Ram.
你知道,他有像來姆,奈古帕提‧ 來姆, 和奎師那,戈文達‧ 哈里這些英雄。 但是他們不是兩段不同冒險裡的兩個角色, 而是同一個英雄的兩段人生。 當羅摩衍那結束時,摩訶婆羅多即開始。 當雷姆死時,奎斯那即誕生。 奎斯那死去後終究還是會輪迴成雷姆。
You see, the Indians also had a river that separates the land of the living from the land of the dead. But you don't cross it once. You go to and fro endlessly. It was called the Vaitarani. You go again and again and again. Because, you see, nothing lasts forever in India, not even death. And so, you have these grand rituals where great images of mother goddesses are built and worshiped for 10 days ... And what do you do at the end of 10 days? You dunk it in the river. Because it has to end. And next year, she will come back. What goes around always comes around, and this rule applies not just to man, but also the gods. You see, the gods have to come back again and again and again as Ram, as Krishna. Not only do they live infinite lives, but the same life is lived infinite times till you get to the point of it all. "Groundhog Day." (Laughter)
是這樣的,印度人有條河。 它阻隔了活人和死人的世界, 但你不只有跨越過它一次, 你將永無止境地在這兩個世界來回 這條河叫作瓦伊特爾納河 你會一再地前往 因為啊 連死亡也不意外 所以會有那些盛大的儀式 人們建造超大女神像 然後膜拜十天 十天後呢? 就把祂丟入河裡 凡事都有盡頭 明年她會再現 凡事都有輪迴 不只人們有輪迴 神也有 像眾神 也必須這樣地來回輪迴 像萊姆,奎斯那 他們不只有永恆的生命 而且同一個人生還會無限地重複 一直到你了解了人生的真諦 就像電影今天暫時停止一般 (笑聲)
Two different mythologies. Which is right? Two different mythologies, two different ways of looking at the world. One linear, one cyclical. One believes this is the one and only life. The other believes this is one of many lives. And so, the denominator of Alexander's life was one. So, the value of his life was the sum total of his achievements. The denominator of the gymnosophist's life was infinity. So, no matter what he did, it was always zero. And I believe it is this mythological paradigm that inspired Indian mathematicians to discover the number zero. Who knows?
兩種不同的神話 哪個有道理呢? 兩種不同的神話代表兩種看世界的方法 一個是線性的,一個是循環姓的 一個認為要把握唯一此生的當下 另一個認為此生只是輪迴中的一回 所以亞歷山大的人生就那麼一次 所以他人生蓋棺定論 就是他的所有成就 但是裸體靈修者的生命是永恆輪迴的 所以不管他做了什麼 到頭來還是要從頭開始,所以等於零。 因此我相信就是這個神話範例 啟發了印度數學家 發明數字零 搞不好哩?
And that brings us to the mythology of business. If Alexander's belief influenced his behavior, if the gymnosophist's belief influences his behavior, then it was bound to influence the business they were in. You see, what is business but the result of how the market behaves and how the organization behaves? And if you look at cultures around the world, all you have to do is understand the mythology and you will see how they behave and how they do business.
然後這又帶領我們進入各種商業的神話 如果亞歷山大的信仰影響了他的行為 如果裸體靈修者的信仰影響了他的行為 那麼這一定會影響到他們所從事的事業 什麼是商業? 不就是市場行為的產物 以及組織行為的產物 如果你想了解各國文化 你只需要了解各國神話 之後你就會了解他們的行為及商業運作方式
Take a look. If you live only once, in one-life cultures around the world, you will see an obsession with binary logic, absolute truth, standardization, absoluteness, linear patterns in design. But if you look at cultures which have cyclical and based on infinite lives, you will see a comfort with fuzzy logic, with opinion, with contextual thinking, with everything is relative, sort of -- (Laughter) mostly. (Laughter)
我們來看一下 如果你只活一次,而且在這世界上信奉生命只有一次的國家裡, 你就會看到人們對二元論的執迷 絕對真實,標準化 絕對性且線性的設計 但是如果你檢視那些相信輪迴 認為生命永不止息的文化,你會感到慰藉,因為其中的模糊邏輯 意見 有著文化脈絡背景的思考 每件事都是相關連的,幾乎 (笑聲) 大部分 (笑聲)
You look at art. Look at the ballerina, how linear she is in her performance. And then look at the Indian classical dancer, the Kuchipudi dancer, the Bharatanatyam dancer, curvaceous. (Laughter)
你看一下藝術。看一下芭蕾舞者。 她的表演有多麼線性 再看看印度傳統舞者 酷奇普地舞者,婆羅多舞者 曲線多美啊 (笑聲)
And then look at business. Standard business model: vision, mission, values, processes. Sounds very much like the journey through the wilderness to the promised land, with the commandments held by the leader. And if you comply, you will go to heaven.
我們再來看看商業是怎麼一回事 標準商業典型 視野、使命、價值和過程 聽起來很像 穿越荒野前往應許之地的旅程 領隊攜著誡命 如果你達成命令,你就可以上天堂
But in India there is no "the" promised land. There are many promised lands, depending on your station in society, depending on your stage of life. You see, businesses are not run as institutions, by the idiosyncrasies of individuals. It's always about taste. It's always about my taste.
但在印度沒有所謂的那個最終的「應許之地」 應許之地有很多種層次 依你在社會的地位而定 以及你人生中所處的階段而定 是這樣,經營商業並不是像經營一個機構那樣 由個人的習性掌控 它總是與趣味品味有關 是個人導向的
You see, Indian music, for example, does not have the concept of harmony. There is no orchestra conductor. There is one performer standing there, and everybody follows. And you can never replicate that performance twice. It is not about documentation and contract. It's about conversation and faith. It's not about compliance. It's about setting, getting the job done, by bending or breaking the rules -- just look at your Indian people around here, you'll see them smile; they know what it is. (Laughter) And then look at people who have done business in India, you'll see the exasperation on their faces. (Laughter) (Applause)
舉例來說,印度音樂 並沒有和諧的概念 沒有管懸樂團 只有一個表演者站在那裡,然後大家跟著 你不可能重複同一個表演 跟什麼文件合約無關 而是和會話和信仰有關 和承諾無關,和環境有關 只要把工作做好,哪怕要打破規則 看一下你在座的印度人吧 他們會對你微笑,因為他們知道我在說什麼 (笑聲) 再看看那些在印度做過生意的人 他們臉上則是只有惱怒 (笑聲) (拍掌)
You see, this is what India is today. The ground reality is based on a cyclical world view. So, it's rapidly changing, highly diverse, chaotic, ambiguous, unpredictable. And people are okay with it. And then globalization is taking place. The demands of modern institutional thinking is coming in. Which is rooted in one-life culture. And a clash is going to take place, like on the banks of the Indus. It is bound to happen.
這樣你了解了吧,這就是現今的印度。現實世界是 建構在一種輪迴觀 所以世界是變換莫測的,超多樣化的 混亂混沌且不可預測的 人們相安無事啊 然後全球化出現 要求現代制度化思考就來啦 它源自相信人只有一次生命的文化 衝突即將發生 就像印度河岸發生的一樣 遲早會發生的
I have personally experienced it. I'm trained as a medical doctor. I did not want to study surgery. Don't ask me why. I love mythology too much. I wanted to learn mythology. But there is nowhere you can study. So, I had to teach it to myself. And mythology does not pay, well, until now. (Laughter) So, I had to take up a job. And I worked in the pharma industry. And I worked in the healthcare industry. And I worked as a marketing guy, and a sales guy, and a knowledge guy, and a content guy, and a training guy. I even was a business consultant, doing strategies and tactics. And I would see the exasperation between my American and European colleagues, when they were dealing with India.
我個人有經驗。我是受醫學訓練的 但我不想學外科手術,別問我問為什麼 我太愛神話學了 我想學但卻沒地方學 所以我只好自己學 神話學一點都不賺錢,好吧,直到現在才賺 (笑聲) 所以我只好找個工作活口,在醫藥業 然後是保健業 行銷和業務 飽學知識的人和訓練師 我還做過商業顧問幫忙作策略 當 我的歐美同事和印度人交涉時, 我看到他們的惱怒
Example: Please tell us the process to invoice hospitals. Step A. Step B. Step C. Mostly. (Laughter) How do you parameterize "mostly"? How do you put it in a nice little software? You can't.
舉例:請告訴我們 開醫院發票的流程 大部分是部驟一二三 (笑聲) 怎麼參數化「大部分」呢? 如何把它放進小軟體裡呢? 你辦不到
I would give my viewpoints to people. But nobody was interested in listening to it, you see, until I met Kishore Biyani of the Future group. You see, he has established the largest retail chain, called Big Bazaar. And there are more than 200 formats, across 50 cities and towns of India. And he was dealing with diverse and dynamic markets. And he knew very intuitively, that best practices, developed in Japan and China and Europe and America will not work in India. He knew that institutional thinking doesn't work in India. Individual thinking does. He had an intuitive understanding of the mythic structure of India.
我會告訴人們我的觀點 但沒人會想聽 直到我遇到未來集團的吉秀‧比亞尼 他那時已經建立了最大的零售連鎖店「大商場」 在全印度50個城市和鄉鎮中 有超過200個模式 他必須處理各式各樣活躍的市場 他直覺認為 在 日本中國歐洲和美國的最佳模式 在印度行不通的 他知道制式化思考在印度行不通,個人化獨立思考才行的通 他已經深刻了解印度的神話般結構
So, he had asked me to be the Chief Belief Officer, and said, "All I want to do is align belief." Sounds so simple. But belief is not measurable. You can't measure it. You can't manage it. So, how do you construct belief? How do you enhance the sensitivity of people to Indian-ness. Even if you are Indian, it is not very explicit, it is not very obvious.
所以他邀我擔任首席精神領袖 他說:我只要你把信仰整合起來 聽起來很簡單 但是信仰是不無法測量的 你無法測量它,更別說管理它了 所以啊,你怎麼建構出信仰? 你如何增進人對印度性的敏感度呢? 幾使你是印度人,你也可能不能清楚感知道它
So, I tried to work on the standard model of culture, which is, develop stories, symbols and rituals. And I will share one of the rituals with you. You see it is based on the Hindu ritual of Darshan. Hindus don't have the concept of commandments. So, there is nothing right or wrong in what you do in life. So, you're not really sure how you stand in front of God. So, when you go to the temple, all you seek is an audience with God. You want to see God. And you want God to see you, and hence the gods have very large eyes, large unblinking eyes, sometimes made of silver, so they look at you. Because you don't know whether you're right or wrong, and so all you seek is divine empathy. "Just know where I came from, why I did the Jugaad." (Laughter) "Why did I do the setting, why I don't care for the processes. Just understand me, please."
所以我試著從文化的標準模型下手 也就是發產出故事象徵和儀式 我將和你們分享其中一個儀式 它是基於印度儀式中的達顯。 印度教並沒有戒律的概念。 所以你人生所做的事並沒有對或錯。 你在神之面前於是會不知所措。 所以你去廟宇時,你只想當神的觀眾。 你想看到神。 你也想讓神看到你,所以神都有很大的眼睛。 而且不眨眼的, 有時還是銀做的。 神看著你, 因為以不知道自己做錯作對,所以你只冀求 神聖的神入。 只想知道我從哪裡來,我為什麼要當創意天才? (笑聲) 為什麼我佈置這些? 我為什麼不在意程序? 請了解我吧。
And based on this, we created a ritual for leaders. After a leader completes his training and is about to take over the store, we blindfold him, we surround him with the stakeholders, the customer, his family, his team, his boss. You read out his KRA, his KPI, you give him the keys, and then you remove the blindfold. And invariably, you see a tear, because the penny has dropped. He realizes that to succeed, he does not have to be a "professional," he does not have to cut out his emotions, he has to include all these people in his world to succeed, to make them happy, to make the boss happy, to make everyone happy. The customer is happy, because the customer is God.
根據這些呢,我們為領導者創造了一個儀式 在領導者結束訓練即將掌管商店時 我們蒙住他的眼睛,所有它的關係人圍繞著他, 他的顧客家人團隊和老闆。 唸出他的組織績效、流程績效,給他那些關鍵。 然後移去蒙眼條, 然後你總是會看到對方留下眼淚 因為他已經悟道了。 他領悟到要成功的話, 他並不需要成為一個專業人士, 他不需要屏除他的情緒。 要成功的話他必須把這些人納入他的世界 讓他們愉快。 讓老闆愉快,讓每個人愉快。 顧客就是神,所以要讓他們愉快。
That sensitivity is what we need. Once this belief enters, behavior will happen, business will happen. And it has. So, then we come back to Alexander and to the gymnosophist. And everybody asks me, "Which is the better way, this way or that way?" And it's a very dangerous question, because it leads you to the path of fundamentalism and violence. So, I will not answer the question. What I will give you is an Indian answer, the Indian head-shake. (Laughter) (Applause)
我們需要感性。只要你相信這個信仰, 就會有好的行為,商業也會跟著來。 它的確已經開始了。 好,我們在回到亞歷山大 和裸體靈修者。 大家都問我哪一個比較好啊? 這個問題很危險, 因為他領導你走向基本教義派和暴力。 所以我不會回答。 我要給你一個印度人的答案, 印度式搖頭 (笑聲) (掌聲)
Depending on the context, depending on the outcome, choose your paradigm. You see, because both the paradigms are human constructions. They are cultural creations, not natural phenomena. And so the next time you meet someone, a stranger, one request: Understand that you live in the subjective truth, and so does he. Understand it. And when you understand it you will discover something spectacular. You will discover that within infinite myths lies the eternal truth. Who sees it all? Varuna has but a thousand eyes. Indra, a hundred. You and I, only two. Thank you. Namaste. (Applause)
視文化脈絡而定 視結果而定 來選擇你的模範。 因為兩者都是人類的產物。 是文化的創造, 不是自然現象。 所以下一次你遇到一個陌生人, 請你 要體悟到你有主觀的意識 他也有。 去了解這件事吧。 當你了解了,你會發現驚奇的事。 你會發現在無限的神話裡, 有著永恆不變的真理。 誰看得到真理呢? 瓦魯納有一千隻眼睛, 印迪拉有一百隻, 你我都只有兩隻。 謝謝 (掌聲)