Vincent Moon: How can we use computers, cameras, microphones to represent the world in an alternative way, as much as possible? How, maybe, is it possible to use the Internet to create a new form of cinema? And actually, why do we record?
文森‧慕:我們如何使用電腦, 照相機,麥克風來呈現這個世界, 以另一種方式, 儘可能地展現? 或許,如何才能使用網路 去創作一部具有新題材的電影? 問題是,我們為什麼要記錄呢?
Well, it is with such simple questions in mind that I started to make films 10 years ago, first with a friend, Christophe Abric. He had a website, La Blogothèque, dedicated to independent music. We were crazy about music. We wanted to represent music in a different way, to film the music we love, the musicians we admired, as much as possible, far from the music industry and far from the cliches attached to it. We started to publish every week sessions on the Internet. We are going to see a few extracts now.
10 年前我開始拍攝電影時, 這個簡單的問題一直存在心裡, 最早是和朋友克里斯多福‧阿布里克 一起 他有一個網站叫做拉布拉格鐵克 (La Blogothèque), 是一個專為獨立音樂設立的網站。 我們非常熱愛音樂 想要以不同的方式來展現音樂, 因此我們拍攝喜愛的音樂, 我們所尊敬的音樂家, 儘可能去遠離音樂產業, 遠離大家一直重複在做的事。 我們開始每週 在網路上發佈影片。 現在我們來看一些片段。
From Grizzly Bear in the shower to Sigur Ros playing in a Parisian cafe. From Phoenix playing by the Eiffel Tower to Tom Jones in his hotel room in New York. From Arcade Fire in an elevator in the Olympia to Beirut going down a staircase in Brooklyn. From R.E.M. in a car to The National around a table at night in the south of France. From Bon Iver playing with some friends in an apartment in Montmartre to Yeasayer having a long night, and many, many, many more unknown or very famous bands.
從浴室裡的灰熊樂團(Grizzly Bear) 到席格若斯樂團(Sigur Ros ) 在巴黎咖啡廳的演奏。 從在艾菲爾鐡塔表演的 鳯凰城樂團(Phoenix) 到紐約飯店裡的湯姆‧瓊斯。 從拱廊之火樂團 ( Arcade Fire ) 在奧林匹亞的一個電梯裡的表演 到貝魯特在布魯克林下樓梯時的表演。 從 R.E.M. 在車子裡面的表演 到全國人民樂團(The National) 在南法夜晚圍繞著桌子的表演。 從邦‧利柏與朋友們 在蒙馬特公寓的表演 到肯定樂團(Yeasayer ) 的漫漫長夜, 還有很多,很多 不知名或非常有名樂團。
We published all those films for free on the Internet, and we wanted to share all those films and represent music in a different way. We wanted to create another type of intimacy using all those new technologies. At the time, 10 years ago actually, there was no such project on the Internet, and I guess that's why the project we were making, the Take Away Shows, got quite successful, reaching millions of viewers.
我們將這些影片 免費發佈到網路上, 我們要分享 這些影片以及 以不同的方式來呈現音樂。 我們想要以這些新科技 來創造另一種讓人 親近音樂的形式。 當時,實際上是 10 年前, 網路上沒有如此多的影片, 我想這就是為什麼我們製作的 「帶走秀」 能夠如此成功 達到百萬人次的點閱率。
After a while, I got a bit — I wanted to go somewhere else. I felt the need to travel and to discover some other music, to explore the world, going to other corners, and actually it was also this idea of nomadic cinema, sort of, that I had in mind. How could the use of new technologies and the road fit together? How could I edit my films in a bus crossing the Andes? So I went on five-year travels around the globe. I started at the time in the digital film and music label collection Petites Planètes, which was also an homage to French filmmaker Chris Marker. We're going to see now a few more extracts of those new films.
過了一陣子之後,我有一點,恩... 我想去別的地方。 我覺得我需要去旅行, 去發現一些不同的音樂, 去探索這個世界, 前往其他的角落, 實際上我那時候也就想要拍 這樣的遊牧電影了。 要怎樣才能在旅途中結合新科技呢? 當我穿越 安地斯山脈時 如何在車內編輯影片? 所以我展開一段五年的旅行, 前往世界各地。 那時我開始經營收錄數位影片和 分類音樂的「小行星」網站 創立這個網站也是向 法國製片家克里斯‧馬克致敬 現在我們再來看一些 剛拍好的影片片段。
From the tecno brega diva of northern Brazil, Gaby Amarantos to a female ensemble in Chechnya. From experimental electronic music in Singapore with One Man Nation to Brazilian icon Tom Zé singing on his rooftop in São Paolo. From The Bambir, the great rock band from Armenia to some traditional songs in a restaurant in Tbilisi, Georgia. From White Shoes, a great retro pop band from Jakarta, Indonesia to DakhaBrakha, the revolutionary band from Kiev, Ukraine. From Tomi Lebrero and his bandoneon and his friends in Buenos Aires, Argentina, to many other places and musicians around the world.
從巴西北部鐵諾布雷嘉 女主唱蓋比‧阿瑪冉爾都斯 到一個車臣的女性樂團。 從新加坡「一個人的國度」 實驗電子音樂 到巴西的指標歌手湯姆‧喬 在聖保羅的自家屋頂唱歌。 從有名的亞美尼亞搖滾樂團斑比爾 到喬治亞第比利斯 餐廳裡的傳統音樂。 從印尼雅加達,一個有名的 復古流行樂團「白襪子」 到烏克蘭基輔的 創新樂團達哈布拉哈。 從湯米‧樂柏賀羅 與朋友在阿根廷布宜諾斯艾利斯 的班多鈕風琴表演。 到許多其他地方 以及世界上的音樂家。
My desire was to make it as a trek. To do all those films, it would have been impossible with a big company behind me, with a structure or anything. I was traveling alone with a backpack — computer, camera, microphones in it. Alone, actually, but just with local people, meeting my team, which was absolutely not professional people, on the spot there, going from one place to another and to make cinema as a trek. I really believed that cinema could be this very simple thing: I want to make a film and you're going to give me a place to stay for the night. I give you a moment of cinema and you offer me a capirinha. Well, or other drinks, depending on where you are.
我希望把它做成一個音樂之旅。 要製作這些影片, 如果背後有一個大公司 這是不可能完成的, 因為會有公司組織或制度。 我背著我的背包獨自旅行- 帶著電腦,照相和麥克風, 真的只有我自己,與當地的人 一起開會,在場的人, 他們絶對不是專業人士, 再從一個地方到另外一個地方 一面旅行,一面編輯影片。 我相信電影藝術 可以非常單純: 我想拍攝一部電影, 你提供我一個可以過夜的地方, 我幫你們拍一段影片, 你們就給我一杯鷄尾酒 或其他飲料, 看你在什麼地方啦
In Peru, they drink pisco sour. Well, when I arrived in Peru, actually, I had no idea about what I would do there. And I just had one phone number, actually, of one person. Three months later, after traveling all around the country, I had recorded 33 films, only with the help of local people, only with the help of people that I was asking all the time the same question: What is important to record here today? By living in such a way, by working without any structure, I was able to react to the moment and to decide, oh, this is important to make now. This is important to record that whole person. This is important to create this exchange. When I went to Chechnya, the first person I met looked at me and was like, "What are you doing here? Are you a journalist? NGO? Politics? What kind of problems are you going to study?" Well, I was there to research on Sufi rituals in Chechnya, actually — incredible culture of Sufism in Chechnya, which is absolutely unknown outside of the region. As soon as people understood that I would give them those films — I would publish them online for free under a Creative Commons license, but I would also really give them to the people and I would let them do what they want with it. I just want to represent them in a beautiful light. I just want to portray them in a way that their grandchildren are going to look at their grandfather, and they're going to be like, "Whoa, my grandfather is as cool as Beyoncé." (Laughter) It's a really important thing. (Applause)
在祕魯,人們喝酸味皮斯可鷄尾酒。 當我剛到祕魯時, 我真的不知道在那裡要做什麼。 我手上就只有 一個人的電話號碼 三個月之後, 當我遊遍整個國家之後, 我拍了 33 部影片, 只藉著當地人的幫助, 僅僅靠著人們的協助, 我總是一直問相同的問題: 今天這裡最值得記錄的是什麼? 以這種方式生活, 沒有組織結構的工作方式, 我能夠與當下互動 決定這是現在要去做的重要事。 記錄整個人是重要的。 與他人交流是重要的。 當我到了車臣, 我碰到的第一個人 看著我,像是說, "你在這裡做什麼? 你是記者嗎?非營利組織? 還是政治人物? 你是要研究什麼樣的問題?" 我來這裡是要研究 車臣的蘇菲儀式, 不可思議的車臣蘇菲文化, 它絶對是外界無法得知的文化。 當地人民很快得知 我要將他們拍攝成影片- 在知識共享協議下, 將影片免費發佈到網路上, 我給當地人我所拍攝的影片 我讓當地人決定 拍攝影片的方式。 我要以美麗的光芒來展現他們。 我要以一種方式去刻畫他們 讓他們的孫子看到其祖父母, 將會很喜歡, "哇,我的祖父母和碧昂絲一樣酷" (笑聲) 這是一件很重要的事情。 (掌聲)
It's really important, because that's the way people are going to look differently at their own culture, at their own land. They're going to think about it differently. It may be a way to maintain a certain diversity. Why you will record? Hmm. There's a really good quote by American thinker Hakim Bey which says, "Every recording is a tombstone of a live performance." It's a really good sentence to keep in mind nowadays in an era saturated by images. What's the point of that? Where do we go with it? I was researching. I was still keeping this idea in mind: What's the point? I was researching on music, trying to pull, trying to get closer to a certain origin of it. Where is this all coming from? I am French. I had no idea about what I would discover, which is a very simple thing: Everything was sacred, at first, and music was spiritual healing. How could I use my camera, my little tool, to get closer and maybe not only capture the trance but find an equivalent, a cine-trance, maybe, something in complete harmony with the people?
這是非常重要的, 因為這個方式 人們將以不同的眼光來看待 自己的文化,自己的土地。 他們會有不同的想法。 或許這是一個保有多樣性的方式。 為何要記錄? 嗯,有個很好的引用 美國思想家哈基姆‧貝 的說法「每一個記錄 都是生活表演的墓碑。」 這是一句值得放在中心的佳言 在當今在這個充滿圖像的年代裡。 這代表什麼意義? 這是為了什麼? 我做了研究, 我仍然將此想法放在心上: 有何意義? 我研究音樂,試著取得, 試著更貼近原始風貌。 這些是從那裡來? 我是法國人,我不知道 我會發現什麼, 那是一件簡單的事: 一開始,每件事都是神聖的, 音樂是心靈的治療劑, 我如何使用照相機, 小工具,去貼近 或許不只是捕捉幻境 抓住 也可找到一個平衡點, 一個電影的逸境, 將人們完全融入其中 的影片?
That is now my new research I'm doing on spirituality, on new spirits around the world. Maybe a few more extracts now. From the Tana Toraja funeral ritual in Indonesia to an Easter ceremony in the north of Ethiopia. From jathilan, a popular trance ritual on the island of Java, to Umbanda in the north of Brazil. The Sufi rituals of Chechnya to a mass in the holiest church of Armenia. Some Sufi songs in Harar, the holy city of Ethiopia, to an ayahuasca ceremony deep in the Amazon of Peru with the Shipibo. Then to my new project, the one I'm doing now here in Brazil, named "Híbridos." I'm doing it with Priscilla Telmon. It's research on the new spiritualities all around the country. This is my quest, my own little quest of what I call experimental ethnography, trying to hybrid all those different genres, trying to regain a certain complexity.
是我正在做的研究 心靈上,世界上新的靈性元素。 現在來看幾部短片。 從印尼塔納托拉賈的喪葬儀式 到伊索比亞北部的復活節儀式。 從爪哇島雅西蘭 一種流行的入神舞蹈儀式, 到巴西北部的招魂儀式 車臣的蘇菲儀式 到亞美尼亞教堂最神聖的彌撒。 哈拉爾的蘇菲歌曲, 衣索匹亞的聖城, 到死藤水儀式 祕魯亞馬遜深處的 席匹波族(Shipibo)。 到我的現在正在做的新計劃, 在巴西叫做「混合動力車。」 我和佩西拉‧泰門一起做。 是有關於這個國家的新心靈。 這是我的請求,我自己的小請求, 稱之為實驗民族誌, 試著去混合不同的作品類型, 試著恢復一定的複雜性。
Why do we record? I was still there. I really believe cinema teaches us to see. The way we show the world is going to change the way we see this world, and we live in a moment where the mass media are doing a terrible, terrible job at representing the world: violence, extremists, only spectacular events, only simplifications of everyday life. I think we are recording to regain a certain complexity. To reinvent life today, we have to make new forms of images. And it's very simple.
為什麼要記錄? 我仍然在問這個問題。 我相信拍攝影片這件事教我們去看。 呈現世界面貌的方式 將會改變我們看待世界的方式, 我們身處於大眾媒體 做得很糟糕的時刻,以可怖的方式 呈現世界: 暴力,極端份子 只有引人注目的事件, 只有單純的日常生活。 我認為我們在記錄 以獲得一定的複雜性。 去重塑生活, 我們必需去製作新的印象。 同時也是很簡單。
Muito obrigado.
謝謝。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
Bruno Giussani: Vincent, Vincent, Vincent. Merci. We have to prepare for the following performance, and I have a question for you, and the question is this: You show up in places like the ones you just have shown us, and you are carrying a camera and I assume that you are welcome but you are not always absolutely welcome. You walk into sacred rituals, private moments in a village, a town, a group of people. How do you break the barrier when you show up with a lens?
布魯諾‧朱薩尼:文森,文森,文森, 謝謝。我們必須準備接下來的表演, 我有個問題,這個問題是: 你出現在你給我們看的影片的地方, 你拿著照相機 我假設你受歡迎 但你不總是受歡迎。 你踏入令入害怕的儀式, 在村莊裡的私人時刻, 一群人。 你是如何打破壁壘 在你拿出鏡頭的時候?
VM: I think you break it with your body, more than with your knowledge. That's what it taught me to travel, to trust the memory of the body more than the memory of the brain. The respect is stepping forward, not stepping backward, and I really think that by engaging your body in the moment, in the ceremony, in the places, people welcome you and understand your energy.
文森‧慕:以你的身體打破障礙, 多於用你既定的知識。 這是旅行中學到的, 去相信身體的記憶力 多於大腦的記憶。 尊敬讓你往前邁進, 而不是後退,我真的認為 你的身體融入當下,在儀式中, 這個地方的居民歡迎你 也了解你的想法。
BG: You told me that most of the videos you have made are actually one single shot. You don't do much editing. I mean, you edited the ones for us at the beginning of the sessions because of the length, etc. Otherwise, you just go in and capture whatever happens in front of your eyes without much planning, and so is that the case? It's correct?
朱薩尼:你告訴我們,你所製作的 大部分的影片一次拍攝完成。 不需要太多的編輯。 我的意思是,你為我們編輯影片 我節目開始的時候,因為影片太長, 要不然,你會直接 拍攝你眼前的所有事物 不要太多的規劃, 對嗎?
VM: My idea is that I think that as long as we don't cut, in a way, as long as we let the viewer watch, more and more viewers are going to feel closer, are going to get closer to the moment, to that moment and to that place. I really think of that as a matter of respecting the viewer, to not cut all the time from one place to another, to just let the time go.
文森‧慕:我的想法是 只要不剪輯, 只要讓觀眾看到, 有更多的觀眾會覺得更貼近, 在那時刻更貼近一些, 在那時刻,那地方更貼近了。 我真的認為這是尊重觀眾的方式, 從頭到尾不去剪接, 而是讓時光流逝。
BG: Tell me in a few words about your new project, "Híbridos," here in Brazil. Just before coming to TEDGlobal, you have actually been traveling around the country for that. Tell us a couple of things.
朱薩尼:簡短地告訴我你的新計劃, 在巴西稱為「混合動力車」。 在來到TED全球以前, 還在為這計劃在這國家旅行。 告訴我們一些事。
VM: "Híbridos" is — I really believe Brazil, far from the cliches, is the greatest religious country in the world, the greatest country in terms of spirituality and in experimentations in spiritualities. And it's a big project I'm doing over this year, which is researching in very different regions of Brazil, in very different forms of cults, and trying to understand how people live together with spirituality nowadays.
文森‧慕:「混合動力車」是- 我相信巴西 是世界上最大宗教國, 並非老生常談, 以心靈性層面來說,是最大的國家, 在實驗上,在心靈上都是。 這是我這今年正在做的大計劃, 探索巴西不同的宗教, 有著不同的膜拜儀式, 我試圖了解在面對當今靈性的事物 人們是如何生活在一起。
BG: The man who is going to appear onstage momentarily, and Vincent's going to introduce him, is one of the subjects of one of his past videos. When did you do a video with him?
朱薩尼:即將上台的人 文森‧慕將會介紹他, 是以前拍攝的一個主題之一。 你是何時拍攝他的?
VM: I guess four years ago, four years in my first travel.
文森‧慕:我想是在 4 年前, 4 年前的第一次旅行。
BG: So it was one of your first ones in Brazil. VM: It was amongst the first ones in Brazil, yeah. I shot the film in Recife, in the place where he is from.
朱薩尼:所以這是你 在巴西的第一部影片。 文森‧慕:是的, 我在巴西的第一部影片之一。 我在累西腓拍的, 而他來自累西腓。
BG: So let's introduce him. Who are we waiting for?
朱薩尼:讓我們來介紹他。 即將出場的是誰呢?
VM: I'll just make it very short. It's a very great honor for me to welcome onstage one of the greatest Brazilian musicians of all time. Please welcome Naná Vasconcelos.
文森‧慕:我做個簡短介紹。 非常榮幸邀請有史以來 巴西最偉大的音樂家之一。 讓我你歡迎納納‧瓦斯康塞洛斯。
BG: Naná Vasconcelos!
朱薩尼:納納‧瓦斯康塞洛斯!
(Applause)
(掌聲)
(Music)
(音樂)
Naná Vasconcelos: Let's go to the jungle.
納納‧瓦斯康塞洛斯:讓我們走入叢林
(Applause)
(掌聲)