Imagine that you invented a device that can record my memories, my dreams, my ideas, and transmit them to your brain. That would be a game-changing technology, right? But in fact, we already possess this device, and it's called human communication system and effective storytelling. To understand how this device works, we have to look into our brains. And we have to formulate the question in a slightly different manner.
想象一下你发明了一个设备, 可以记录我的记忆、 我的梦想、我的想法, 并把它们传输到你的大脑里。 那将是改变世界的新科技,对吧? 但事实上,我们已经拥有了这样的设备, 它被称作"人类沟通系统" 和"有效的故事叙述"。 为理解这个设备的运作方式, 我们必须对大脑进行一番研究。 并且稍稍改变提问的方向。
Now we have to ask how these neuron patterns in my brain that are associated with my memories and ideas are transmitted into your brains. And we think there are two factors that enable us to communicate. First, your brain is now physically coupled to the sound wave that I'm transmitting to your brain. And second, we developed a common neural protocol that enabled us to communicate.
我们改问: 我大脑中那些 与我的记忆和想法相关的神经元, 是如何被传输到你的大脑里的? 我们认为,有两个因素促成沟通。 首先,你的大脑在物理层面上 与我正在传输的声波耦合。 其次,我们有共通的神经通讯协定 使我们能够沟通。
So how do we know that? In my lab in Princeton, we bring people to the fMRI scanner and we scan their brains while they are either telling or listening to real-life stories. And to give you a sense of the stimulus we are using, let me play 20 seconds from a story that we used, told by a very talented storyteller, Jim O'Grady.
那么,我们是如何知道的呢? 在我的普林斯顿实验室里, 我们对受测者进行 功能性核磁共振仪扫描, 就在他们讲述或聆听真实故事时, 扫描他们的大脑。 为了让你们了解我们所使用的刺激物, 我从一段故事中截取了20秒来播放, 这是来自一位 非常有才华的故事讲述者 名为 Jim O'Grady。
(Audio) Jim O'Grady: So I'm banging out my story and I know it's good, and then I start to make it better --
(音频)Jim O'Grady:我现在要 大声说出我的故事,因为很好笑, 然后为了让故事更生动--
(Laughter)
(笑)
by adding an element of embellishment. Reporters call this "making shit up."
我会稍微地加油添醋, 记者们称之为“忽悠”
(Laughter)
(笑)
And they recommend against crossing that line. But I had just seen the line crossed between a high-powered dean and assault with a pastry. And I kinda liked it."
他们建议不要越过那条线, 但我刚看见糕点飞过那条线, 砸在院长大人的脸上。 我还挺开心的。
Uri Hasson: OK, so now let's look into your brain and see what's happening when you listen to these kinds of stories. And let's start simple -- let's start with one listener and one brain area: the auditory cortex that processes the sounds that come from the ear. And as you can see, in this particular brain area, the responses are going up and down as the story is unfolding. Now we can take these responses and compare them to the responses in other listeners in the same brain area. And we can ask: How similar are the responses across all listeners?
尤里.哈森:好,现在我们来观察你的大脑 看看当你听这类故事时发生了什么。 一开始我们先简单点—— 从一位受测听众的大脑区域开始: 处理耳朵听到的声音的 听觉大脑皮层。 如你所见,这特定区域的脑波 会随着故事的进展而上下波动。 现在我们把这些反应 和其他受测听众 同一大脑区域内的反应 进行比较。 我们会问: 所有受测听众的反应有多相似呢?
So here you can see five listeners. And we start to scan their brains before the story starts, when they're simply lying in the dark and waiting for the story to begin. As you can see, the brain area is going up and down in each one of them, but the responses are very different, and not in sync. However, immediately as the story is starting, something amazing is happening.
可以看到这五位受测者的脑波。 在故事展开前, 我们就开始扫描他们的大脑, 当时他们只是躺在黑暗中, 等待故事开始。 正如你们所见, 他们每个人的大脑区域里都有起伏, 但是反应却非常不同, 而且不同步。 然而,就在故事开始后, 一些神奇的事情发生了。
(Audio) JO: So I'm banging out my story and I know it's good, and then I start to make it --
(音频) JO:我现在要 大声说出我的故事,因为很好笑, 然后为了让故事更生动--
UH: Suddenly, you can see that the responses in all of the subjects lock to the story, and now they are going up and down in a very similar way across all listeners. And in fact, this is exactly what is happening now in your brains when you listen to my sound speaking. We call this effect "neural entrainment." And to explain to you what is neural entrainment, let me first explain what is physical entrainment.
UH:突然间,所有人的脑波回应 都随着故事的进展而上上下下, 波型都很类似。 事实上,各位听我讲话的时候 这种现象也正在你的大脑里发生; 我们把这个效应称作 “神经振荡同步化” 为了解释“神经振荡同步化” 我先来解释一下什么是“物理震盪同步化“
So, we'll look and see five metronomes. Think of these five metronomes as five brains. And similar to the listeners before the story starts, these metronomes are going to click, but they're going to click out of phase.
我们来看看这 5 个节拍器, 想象这5个节拍器是 5 个大脑。 和故事开始前的 5 位受测听众一样, 这五个节拍器会开始打拍子, 但并不同步。
(Clicking)
(咔哒咔哒……)
Now see what will happen when I connect them together by placing them on these two cylinders.
现在来看一下, 当我把它们放在这两个圆筒上, 把它们连起来,会发生什么。
(Clicking)
(咔哒咔哒……)
Now these two cylinders start to rotate. This rotation vibration is going through the wood and is going to couple all the metronomes together. And now listen to the click.
现在这两个圆筒开始滚动, 这种旋转振动贯穿整块木板, 把所有节拍器同步在一起, 现在来听听咔哒声。
(Synchronized clicking)
(同步的咔哒咔哒声……)
This is what you call physical entrainment. Now let's go back to the brain and ask: What's driving this neural entrainment? Is it simply the sounds that the speaker is producing? Or maybe it's the words. Or maybe it's the meaning that the speaker is trying to convey.
这就是所谓的物理震盪同步化。 现在让我们回到大脑, 问一个问题: 是什么在驱动神经振荡同步化? 是说话者发出的声音? 还是所说的字彙? 还是说话者试图传达的意思?
So to test it, we did the following experiment. First, we took the story and played it backwards. And that preserved many of the original auditory features, but removed the meaning. And it sounds something like that.
为了测试,我们做了以下实验。 首先,我们倒退播放这个故事, 这保留了很多原有的听觉特征, 但失去了含义, 听起来就像是这样:
(Audio) JO: (Unintelligible)
(音频)JO:(不知所云)
And we flashed colors in the two brains to indicate brain areas that respond very similarly across people. And as you can see, this incoming sound induced entrainment or alignment in all of the brains in auditory cortices that process the sounds, but it didn't spread deeper into the brain.
我们在两个大脑裡,用闪现的颜色 来标示受测者间 相似脑区块的回应。 正如你们所见, 诱使所有受测者大脑内 处理声音的听觉皮层,全都同步了; 但没有扩散到大脑深层区域。
Now we can take these sounds and build words out of it. So if we take Jim O'Grady and scramble the words, we'll get a list of words.
现在,我们用这些声音来构建文字。 如果我们用 Jim O'Grady 的声音 把文字胡乱拼凑在一起, 我们会得到一系列文字
(Audio) JO: ... an animal ... assorted facts ... and right on ... pie man ... potentially ... my stories
(音频)JO: ... 一只动物.... 各种各样的事实 正在...卖馅饼的人... 可能...我的故事。
UH: And you can see that these words start to induce alignment in early language areas, but not more than that. Now we can take the words and start to build sentences out of them.
UH:你可以看到这些文字 开始引起 早期语言区域的校准, 但也仅仅如此。 现在,我们可以使用文字来组建句子。
(Audio) JO: And they recommend against crossing that line. He says: "Dear Jim, Good story. Nice details. Didn't she only know about him through me?"
(吉姆·雷迪的声音) 他们建议不要逾越那条线。 他说:“亲爱的 Jim 故事不错,细节很棒。 难道她不是通过我才认识他的吗?“
UH: Now you can see that the responses in all the language areas that process the incoming language become aligned or similar across all listeners. However, only when we use the full, engaging, coherent story do the responses spread deeper into the brain into higher-order areas, which include the frontal cortex and the parietal cortex, and make all of them respond very similarly. And we believe that these responses in higher-order areas are induced or become similar across listeners because of the meaning conveyed by the speaker, and not by words or sound. And if we are right, there's a strong prediction over here if I tell you the exact same ideas using two very different sets of words, your brain responses will still be similar.
UH:现在你可以看到 在所有受测者中 在处理输入语言的所有语言区域, 他们的反应变得整齐或相似。 然而,只有当我们使用完整、 动人、连贯的故事时, 反应才会进入大脑深层区域 和高阶区域, 其中包括额叶皮层和顶叶皮层。 从而令所有人 都出现非常相似的反应。 我们认为,这些高阶区域内的反应 之所以能被诱发, 或能在不同受测听众之间变得相似, 是因为讲话者所传达的含义, 而不是文字或声音。 如果我们猜想正确, 那就有一种很可能出现的情况, 如果我使用两种 截然不同的语言组合 告诉你同样的想法, 你的大脑反应仍然是相似的。
And to test it, we did the following experiment in my lab. We took the English story and translated it to Russian. Now you have two different sounds and linguistic systems that convey the exact same meaning. And you play the English story to the English listeners and the Russian story to the Russian listeners, and we can compare their responses across the groups. And when we did that, we didn't see responses that are similar in auditory cortices in language, because the language and sound are very different. However, you can see that the responses in high-order areas were still similar across these two groups. We believe this is because they understood the story in a very similar way, as we confirmed, using a test after the story ended.
为了检验这种情况, 我们在我的实验室里做了以下实验。 我们把这个英语故事 翻译成俄语。 现在有了两种不同的 声音和语言系统, 它们传达的意思则完全相同。 你向英语听众播放英语故事, 向俄语听众播放俄语故事。 我们比较这两组听众的反应。 当这样做的时候, 我们没有在听觉皮层 看到相似的反应。 因为语言和声音差异很大。 但是,两组的高阶区域 的反应仍然相似。 我们认为 ,这是因为 他们理解故事的方式非常相似 故事结束后的一个测试 验证了我们的想法。
And we think that this alignment is necessary for communication. For example, as you can tell, I am not a native English speaker. I grew up with another language, and the same might be for many of you in the audience. And still, we can communicate. How come? We think we can communicate because we have this common code that presents meaning.
我们认为, 这种校准对于沟通是必要的。 举个例子,你们都听得出来 英语并不是我的母语。 我在另一种语言中成长 你们当中很多人可能也是如此。 但我们依然可以沟通 为什么? 我们认为,我们之所以能沟通 是因为我们有这种 呈现含义的通用代码。
So far, I've only talked about what's happening in the listener's brain, in your brain, when you're listening to talks. But what's happening in the speaker's brain, in my brain, when I'm speaking to you? To look in the speaker's brain, we asked the speaker to go into the scanner, we scan his brain and then compare his brain responses to the brain responses of the listeners listening to the story. You have to remember that producing speech and comprehending speech are very different processes. Here we're asking: How similar are they? To our surprise, we saw that all these complex patterns within the listeners actually came from the speaker brain. So production and comprehension rely on very similar processes. And we also found the stronger the similarity between the listener's brain and the speaker's brain, the better the communication. So I know that if you are completely confused now, and I do hope that this is not the case, your brain responses are very different than mine. But I also know that if you really understand me now, then your brain ... and your brain ... and your brain are really similar to mine.
到目前为止,我只谈到听众大脑中 所发生的情形, 当你聆听的时候 你的大脑中所发生的情形。 但演讲者的大脑中发生了什么? 当我对你们说话的时候 我的大脑中发生了什么? 为了观察演讲者的大脑, 我们让演讲者接受扫描, 我们扫描了他的大脑, 然后把他的大脑反应 和听众听故事时的大脑反应 进行比较。 你们要记住,发表演讲和理解演讲 是截然不同的过程。 我们问的是:它们有多相似? 令我们惊讶的是, 我们看到,受测听众之间 产生的所有这些复杂模式, 实际上都源自演讲者的大脑。 所以,产出和理解 所倚赖的过程非常相似。 我们还发现 受测者大脑和讲者大脑之间的 相似度越高, 沟通效果越佳。 所以我知道,如果你们 现在完全听不懂我的话, ——我希望不会出现这种情况 你们的大脑反应 就会与我的非常不同。 但我也知道, 如果你们现在真的理解我的话, 你的大脑…你的大脑… 还有你的大脑 就会与我的非常相似。
Now, let's take all this information together and ask: How can we use it to transmit a memory that I have from my brain to your brains? So we did the following experiment. We let people watch, for the first time in their life, a TV episode from the BBC series "Sherlock," while we scanned their brains. And then we asked them to go back to the scanner and tell the story to another person that never watched the movie. So let's be specific. Think about this exact scene, when Sherlock is entering the cab in London driven by the murderer he is looking for.
现在,我们把所有信息 结合起来,问一个问题: 我们该如何利用它 把我大脑中的记忆 传递到你们的大脑中? 于是我们做了以下实验, 我们让人们首次观看BBC 连续剧 《神探夏洛克》中的一个片段, 同时扫描他们的大脑。 然后我们让他们回到扫描仪前 把故事讲给另一个 从没看过这部电影的人听。 具体来说, 想象这个特定的场景, 夏洛克进入伦敦的一辆出租车, 司机是他正在寻找的杀人凶手。
With me, as a viewer, there is a specific brain pattern in my brain when I watch it. Now, the exact same pattern, I can reactivate in my brain again by telling the word: Sherlock, London, murderer. And when I'm transmitting these words to your brains now, you have to reconstruct it in your mind. In fact, we see that pattern emerging now in your brains. And we were really surprised to see that the pattern you have now in your brains when I'm describing to you these scenes would be very similar to the pattern I had when I watched this movie a few months ago in the scanner. This starts to tell you about the mechanism by which we can tell stories and transmit information. Because, for example, now you're listening really hard and trying to understand what I'm saying. And I know that it's not easy. But I hope that at one point in the talk we clicked, and you got me. And I think that in a few hours, a few days, a few months, you're going to meet someone at a party, and you're going to tell him about this lecture, and suddenly it will be as if he is standing now here with us. Now you can see how we can take this mechanism and try to transmit memories and knowledge across people, which is wonderful, right?
对我而言,作为一名观看者, 当我看的时候, 我的大脑中有一个特定的大脑模式。 现在,通过讲述以下几个词语 我可以再次在大脑中重新激活 这个完全相同的模式: 夏洛克、伦敦、杀人凶手。 当我现在把这些词语传达到你的大脑时, 你得在自己的思维中进行重建。 实际上,我们能看到你们的大脑中 现在出现的模式。 我们非常惊讶地看到, 当我向你描述这些场景的时候, 你的大脑中现在呈现的模式 与我几个月前看这部电影时 扫描仪中显现的我的大脑模式 非常相似。 这开始告诉你们, 我们讲故事和传递信息 所倚赖的机制。 因为,举个例子来说, 现在你们听得非常努力, 尝试理解我所说的话。 我知道这并不容易。 但我希望,到了对话中的某个时刻, 我们能豁然开朗,你们能明白我的意思。 我觉得,在几个小时后,几天后,几个月后, 当你们在派对上遇到某个人, 你会告诉他这次演讲的内容, 突然间,他好像就站在这里, 和我们在一起。 现在你们可以看到, 我们如何利用这个机制 尝试在人与人之间传递记忆和知识, 这很不错,对吧?
But our ability to communicate relies on our ability to have common ground. Because, for example, if I'm going to use the British synonym "hackney carriage" instead of "cab," I know that I'm going to be misaligned with most of you in the audience. This alignment depends not only on our ability to understand the basic concept; it also depends on our ability to develop common ground and understanding and shared belief systems. Because we know that in many cases, people understand the exact same story in very different ways.
但我们的沟通能力 依赖于我们拥有共同点的能力。 因为,举例来说, 如果我使用英式同义词 "出租马车" 取代 "出租汽车" 我知道,大多数听众就无法 与我达成同步的沟通。 沟通的同步不仅取决于 我们对基本概念的理解能力, 也取决于我们形成共性、理解彼此 和共享信仰体系的能力。 因为我们知道,在许多情况下, 即使是完全相同的故事, 人们的理解方式也可能十分不同。
So to test it in the lab, we did the following experiment. We took a story by J.D. Salinger, in which a husband lost track of his wife in the middle of a party, and he's calling his best friend, asking, "Did you see my wife?" For half of the subjects, we said that the wife was having an affair with the best friend. For the other half, we said that the wife is loyal and the husband is very jealous. This one sentence before the story started was enough to make the brain responses of all the people that believed the wife was having an affair be very similar in these high-order areas and different than the other group. And if one sentence is enough to make your brain similar to people that think like you and very different than people that think differently than you, think how this effect is going to be amplified in real life, when we are all listening to the exact same news item after being exposed day after day after day to different media channels, like Fox News or The New York Times, that give us very different perspectives on reality.
为了在实验室中验证, 我们做了以下实验。 我们采用了 J.D. Salinger 的一个故事, 在这个故事中 , 一位丈夫在派对中与妻子失去了联络, 他打电话给最好的朋友,问他: “你看见我妻子了吗?“ 半数的受测者被告知: 妻子和最好的朋友有一段私情。 而另外一半则被告知: 妻子是忠诚的,是丈夫的忌妒心太重。 故事开始前的一句话 就足以决定大脑的反应, 所有相信妻子不忠的人, 在大脑高阶区域 出现非常相似的反应, 但与另一组人不同。 如果一个句子足以让你的大脑 与持相同看法的人相似, 与持不同看法的人相异, 那么想想看,在现实生活中 这种效应会被放大到什么样的程度? 当我们日复一日听着由不同媒体 所报导的相同新闻, 例如《福克斯新闻》或《纽约时报》 造成我们对事实的观点 有截然不同的看法。
So let me summarize. If everything worked as planned tonight, I used my ability to vocalize sound to be coupled to your brains. And I used this coupling to transmit my brain patterns associated with my memories and ideas into your brains. In this, I start to reveal the hidden neural mechanism by which we communicate. And we know that in the future it will enable us to improve and facilitate communication. But these studies also reveal that communication relies on a common ground. And we have to be really worried as a society if we lose this common ground and our ability to speak with people that are slightly different than us because we let a few very strong media channels take control of the mic, and manipulate and control the way we all think. And I'm not sure how to fix it because I'm only a scientist. But maybe one way to do it is to go back to the more natural way of communication, which is a dialogue, in which it's not only me speaking to you now, but a more natural way of talking, in which I am speaking and I am listening, and together we are trying to come to a common ground and new ideas. Because after all, the people we are coupled to define who we are. And our desire to be coupled to another brain is something very basic that starts at a very early age.
我来总结一下, 如果一切事情都像今晚 计划的那样进行, 我可以用我的声音 与你的大脑产生共鸣。 然后利用这种共鸣, 把我的大脑模式、记忆和想法 传输到你的大脑。 由此,我开始揭示沟通所依赖的 隐藏神经机制。 我们知道,在未来, 它会使我们改进 和加速沟通。 但这些研究也表明, 沟通依赖于共同基础。 我们必须得担心,作为一个社会 我们是否失去了这种共同基础, 是否失去了与那些 与自己稍有不同的人沟通的能力, 因为我们放任少数的强势媒体 控制了麦克风, 操纵了我们的想法。 我只是个科学家, 不知如何解决这个问题。 但或许有一种可能方式, 就是回到更自然的沟通方式, 也就是人与人之间的对话, 不只是像现在这样我对着你说, 而是更自然的谈话方式, 我一边说也一边听, 我们一起努力,获得共同点和新想法。 因为,毕竟, 能与我们产生共鸣的人 定义了我们是什麽样的人。 我们对另一个大脑 产生共鸣的基本渴望 在年龄很小的时候就已经开始了。
So let me finish with an example from my own private life that I think is a good example of how coupling to other people is really going to define who we are.
最后,我用自己生活中的 一个例子作为结束。 我觉得这是一个很好的例子, 说明了「共鸣」定义了我们是谁。
This my son Jonathan at a very early age. See how he developed a vocal game together with my wife, only from the desire and pure joy of being coupled to another human being.
这是我儿子 Jonathan, 在他很小的时候。 看看他如何和我妻子 一起开发出一种声音游戏, 仅仅源自渴望与他人 产生共鸣的单纯喜悦。
(Both vocalizing)
(都在发声)
(Laughter)
(笑)
Now, think how the ability of my son to be coupled to us and other people in his life is going to shape the man he is going to become. And think how you change on a daily basis from the interaction and coupling to other people in your life.
现在来想一想 , 我儿子与我们, 以及他生命中其他人产生共鸣的能力, 将如何把他塑造成他将成为的那个人。 想一想,你每天如何 从与他人的交往和联系中改变。
So keep being coupled to other people. Keep spreading your ideas, because the sum of all of us together, coupled, is greater than our parts.
所以持续跟其他人产生共鸣。 持续分享你的想法, 因为我们共鸣起来的总力量, 远远胜过我们分开的个体力量。
Thank you.
谢谢!
(Applause)
(掌声)