Okay, so 90 percent of my photographic process is, in fact, not photographic. It involves a campaign of letter writing, research and phone calls to access my subjects, which can range from Hamas leaders in Gaza to a hibernating black bear in its cave in West Virginia. And oddly, the most notable letter of rejection I ever received came from Walt Disney World, a seemingly innocuous site.
好的, 事实上,我摄影过程的百分之九十, 不仅仅只是照相。 它是一个包涵了写信, 研究以及电话联系得以接触拍摄对象 的复杂过程。 我的拍摄对象的范围可以从加沙地区的哈马斯领导人, 到西弗吉尼亚州一只蛰伏于洞穴中的黑熊。 到西弗吉尼亚州一只蛰伏于洞穴中的黑熊。 奇怪的是,我所收到的所有拒信中, 最值得注意的一封, 来自于迪斯尼世界, 一个看起来完全无害的地方。
And it read -- I'm just going to read a key sentence: "Especially during these violent times, I personally believe that the magical spell cast upon guests who visit our theme parks is particularly important to protect and helps to provide them with an important fantasy they can escape to."
我只打算读读最关键的一句: “尤其实在现在这样一个恐怖时期, 我个人相信, 在游览我们主题公园的客人们身上带有的神奇魔力, 特别重要, 它为帮助 人们实现逃离现实进入一个想象中的神奇世界 提供了保障。”
Photography threatens fantasy. They didn't want to let my camera in because it confronts constructed realities, myths and beliefs, and provides what appears to be evidence of a truth. But there are multiple truths attached to every image, depending on the creator's intention, the viewer and the context in which it is presented.
摄影会威胁想象力。 他们不想让我的照相机进入迪斯尼, 因为照相机能挑战了他们所建立的现实、神秘以及信仰, 并提供了真正 事实的证据。 但每幅照片,都被赋予了不止一个真相, 这取决于拍摄者的目的,以及观看者 以及照片本身所处的环境。
Over a five year period following September 11th, when the American media and government were seeking hidden and unknown sites beyond its borders, most notably weapons of mass destruction, I chose to look inward at that which was integral to America's foundation, mythology and daily functioning. I wanted to confront the boundaries of the citizen, self-imposed and real, and confront the divide between privileged and public access to knowledge.
在911之后的五年多, 当美国媒体和政府在寻找 美国境外 隐藏的和不为人所知的地点 和著名的大规模杀伤武器, 我选择去探究一些更深层次的东西—— 它们对美国的国家基础、 神话和国家机能来说,是不可或缺的。 我自愿并真诚地 希望去突破公民的边界, 突破特权和公共介入信息之间的鸿沟, 突破特权和公共介入信息之间的鸿沟,
It was a critical moment in American history and global history where one felt they didn't have access to accurate information. And I wanted to see the center with my own eyes, but what I came away with is a photograph. And it's just another place from which to observe, and the understanding that there are no absolute, all-knowing insiders. And the outsider can never really reach the core.
这在美国历史乃至世界历史上, 都是重要的时刻—— 人们发现他们无法触及精确的信息。 我希望我能亲眼看见这一切的核心, 但随我上路的,只是一部相机。 那只是另一个让我观察的地方, 并让我了解到, 世上没有绝对的、无所不知的知情人。 而局外人则永远也无法真正触及事情的核心。
I'm going to run through some of the photographs in this series. It's titled, "An American Index of the Hidden and Unfamiliar," and it's comprised of nearly 70 images. In this context I'll just show you a few. This is a nuclear waste storage and encapsulation facility at Hanford site in Washington State, where there are over 1,900 stainless steel capsules containing nuclear waste submerged in water. A human standing in front of an unprotected capsule would die instantly. And I found one section amongst all of these that actually resembled the outline of the United States of America, which you can see here.
我将展示这一系列中的一些相片。 这个系列取名为: 探寻隐藏的美国。 它由将近70幅照片组成。 在今天的演讲里,我只能展示其中的一些。 这是一个存储、封装核废料的基地 位于华盛顿州的汉福德, 这里有超过1900个浸入于水中的 不锈钢容器, 它们盛有核废料。 如果一个人站在毫无任何保护措施的容器前,他将立刻死亡。 我发现其中的一部分 正好勾勒出了美国领土的轮廓。 正好勾勒出了美国领土的轮廓。 你可以在这里看到。
And a big part of the work that is sort of absent in this context is text. So I create these two poles. Every image is accompanied with a very detailed factual text. And what I'm most interested in is the invisible space between a text and its accompanying image, and how the image is transformed by the text and the text by the image. So, at best, the image is meant to float away into abstraction and multiple truths and fantasy. And then the text functions as this cruel anchor that kind of nails it to the ground. But in this context I'm just going to read an abridged version of those texts.
在这样的情况下, 作品里缺失的,是文字。 因此,我创建了两个部分: 每幅图片都配有一段非常详尽的、确凿的文字说明。 而我最感兴趣的是, 存在于文字和对应图片之间的 隐形的距离, 以及照片如何被转述为文字, 文字又如何由照片阐释。 所以,最理想的情况,照片也注定要转变为 抽象的概念、真相和想象。 而文字则如同锐利的锚 将这些漂浮的东西牢牢地按在地上。 今天时间有限, 我只能读缩略的版本。
This is a cryopreservation unit, and it holds the bodies of the wife and mother of cryonics pioneer Robert Ettinger, who hoped to be awoken one day to extended life in good health, with advancements in science and technology, all for the cost of 35 thousand dollars, for forever.
这是一个冷冻保存单元 里面保存了人体冷冻法先驱 罗伯特爱丁格的妻子和母亲的尸体。 罗伯特希望有一天能唤起并延续她们的生命, 用先进的科学技术使她们重新获得健康。 这项技术一次性收费35000美元。
This is a 21-year-old Palestinian woman undergoing hymenoplasty. Hymenoplasty is a surgical procedure which restores the virginal state, allowing her to adhere to certain cultural expectations regarding virginity and marriage. So it essentially reconstructs a ruptured hymen, allowing her to bleed upon having sexual intercourse, to simulate the loss of virginity.
这是一个21岁的巴勒斯坦女性, 她正在接受处女膜修复手术。 处女膜成形术是一项用来恢复处女之身的手术, 这使她能够满足特定的 贞洁观和婚姻观的要求。 这项手术基本上就是修复已经破裂的处女膜, 使得她能在性交的时候流血, 来模拟失去贞操的过程。
This is a jury simulation deliberation room, and you can see beyond that two-way mirror jury advisers standing in a room behind the mirror. And they observe deliberations after mock trial proceedings so that they can better advise their clients how to adjust their trial strategy to have the outcome that they're hoping for. This process costs 60,000 dollars.
这是一个陪审团审理模拟房间, 你可以看到在双向玻璃镜后面, 陪审团顾问站在镜子后的另一个房间里。 在模拟审判后, 顾问们会观察审判的过程, 这样他们就能更好地为他们的客户提建议,告诉他们如何调整审判的策略, 以达到他们所期望的结果。 这个过程需要60000美元。
This is a U.S. Customs and Border Protection room, a contraband room, at John F. Kennedy International Airport. On that table you can see 48 hours' worth of seized goods from passengers entering in to the United States. There is a pig's head and African cane rats. And part of my photographic work is I'm not just documenting what's there. I do take certain liberties and intervene. And in this I really wanted it to resemble an early still-life painting, so I spent some time with the smells and items.
这是美国海关和边境保护局的一个房间, 位于约翰肯尼迪机场,用来存放查处的走私品。 在那张桌子上,你可以看到48小时之内 从入境美国的乘客身上搜查出的物品。 这里有一个猪头和非洲蔗鼠 我的摄影工作的一部分是, 我并不只是记录下那里有什么, 我还行使了一定的自由权力和介入。 在这幅照片中, 我希望它看起来能像一副早期的静物画。 因此我花了一些时间来忍受其间的各种味道和奇怪的物品。
This is the exhibited art on the walls of the CIA in Langley, Virginia, their original headquarters building. And the CIA has had a long history with both covert and public cultural diplomacy efforts. And it's speculated that some of their interest in the arts was designed to counter Soviet communism and promote what it considered to be pro-American thoughts and aesthetics. And one of the art forms that elicited the interest of the agency, and had thus come under question, is abstract expressionism.
这是展示在美国中央情报局墙上的艺术品, 位于弗吉尼亚州兰利,是中央情报局的最初的总部大楼。 美国中央情报局无论在隐秘的,还是公开的文化外交努力上 都具有悠久的历史。 据推测,他们对于艺术的喜好 是有意对抗苏联共产主义, 来推进他们所代表的先进的美国的 思想和审美。 其中一种艺术引起情报局的兴趣, 并因此引发争议的艺术形式,是抽象表达艺术。
This is the Forensic Anthropology Research Facility, and on a six acre plot there are approximately 75 cadavers at any given time that are being studied by forensic anthropologists and researchers who are interested in monitoring a rate of corpse decomposition. And in this particular photograph the body of a young boy has been used to reenact a crime scene.
这是一个辨证人类学研究的场景。 在一个6英亩的土地上, 任一时间内都有大约75具尸体 供辨证人类学家研究, 他们对观察尸体 腐烂的速度很感兴趣。 在这幅图上,一个男孩的尸体 被用来再现一个犯罪的场景。
This is the only federally funded site where it is legal to cultivate cannabis for scientific research in the United States. It's a research crop marijuana grow room.
这是唯一一个联邦政府支持的 合法制造大麻的地方。 所制造的大麻用作全美范围内的相关科学研究。 这是一个研究用大麻的种植房间。
And part of the work that I hope for is that there is a sort of disorienting entropy where you can't find any discernible formula in how these things -- they sort of awkwardly jump from government to science to religion to security -- and you can't completely understand how information is being distributed.
我的一部分工作的目的是, 因为现在存在一种令人迷失的信息混乱, 你无法找到任何可识别的模式, 来解释这些东西是如何笨拙地从政府跳到科学 又跳到宗教继而跳到安全领域—— 你根本无法完全理解 信息是如何被传播开来的。
These are transatlantic submarine communication cables that travel across the floor of the Atlantic Ocean, connecting North America to Europe. They carry over 60 million simultaneous voice conversations, and in a lot of the government and technology sites there was just this very apparent vulnerability. This one is almost humorous because it feels like I could just snip all of that conversation in one easy cut. But stuff did feel like it could have been taken 30 or 40 years ago, like it was locked in the Cold War era and hadn't necessarily progressed.
这些是跨大西洋的水下通信电缆, 它们横跨了整个大西洋海底, 将北美和欧洲联结起来。 它们同时传递着超过6千万个音频通话。 在许多政府和科技场所 它们看起来非常地脆弱。 这一个近乎滑稽,因为看起来好像我只要 轻轻一剪,就可以随时中断所有通话。 但是工作人员们认为它已经启用了30或40年了, 正如它在冷战时代就已经锁定, 必然没有改进。
This is a Braille edition of Playboy magazine. (Laughter) And this is ... a division of the Library of Congress produces a free national library service for the blind and visually impaired, and the publications they choose to publish are based on reader popularity. And Playboy is always in the top few. (Laughter) But you'd be surprised, they don't do the photographs. It's just the text. (Laughter)
这是一个盲文版本的《花花公子》杂志。 (笑) 这是来自美国国会图书馆的一个部门 为盲人和视觉受损人士 提供的一项全国免费图书馆服务。 他们对出版读物的选择 是基于读者群的分布。 而《花花公子》总是遥遥领先的几个之一。 (笑) 但你一定会感到意外,他们并不刊印图片,只有文字。 (笑)
This is an avian quarantine facility where all imported birds coming into America are required to undergo a 30-day quarantine, where they are tested for diseases including Exotic Newcastle Disease and Avian Influenza. This film shows the testing of a new explosive fill on a warhead. And the Air Armament Center at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida is responsible for the deployment and testing of all air-delivered weaponry coming from the United States. And the film was shot on 72 millimeter, government-issue film. And that red dot is a marking on the government-issue film.
这是一个鸟类检疫隔离装置。 所有入境的鸟 都需要进行30天的检疫隔离。 在这里,它们需要被检疫各种疾病, 包括稀有的新城病 和禽流感。 这个短篇展现了 一个新的爆炸性核弹头测试。 位于佛罗里达州埃格林空军基地的 航空武器中心 负责研发和测试 所有美国的空投武器。 所有美国的空投武器。 这个短篇是用官方制定的72厘米胶片拍摄的。 那个红点就是官方制定胶片上的标志。
All living white tigers in North America are the result of selective inbreeding -- that would be mother to son, father to daughter, sister to brother -- to allow for the genetic conditions that create a salable white tiger. Meaning white fur, ice blue eyes, a pink nose. And the majority of these white tigers are not born in a salable state and are killed at birth. It's a very violent process that is little known. And the white tiger is obviously celebrated in several forms of entertainment. Kenny was born. He actually made it to adulthood. He has since passed away, but was mentally retarded and suffers from severe bone abnormalities.
所有生活在北美的白虎 都是通过选择性近亲交配所繁殖的。 这意味着母亲和儿子, 父亲和女儿,姐妹和兄弟交配—— 保证基因的条件 能交配出能出售的白虎。 这也就是要白色的皮毛,冰蓝色的眼睛和粉红的鼻子。 而这些白虎中的大多数, 都不能天生满足出售的条件, 在出生时就被杀死了。 这是一个鲜为人知的、非常残忍的过程。 白虎在很多娱乐形式中都非常有名。 肯尼出生并长到成年, 它已经过世了, 但它智力发展迟缓 并有严重的骨头异常。
This, on a lighter note, is at George Lucas' personal archive. This is the Death Star. And it's shown here in its true orientation. In the context of "Star Wars: Return of the Jedi," its mirror image is presented. They flip the negative. And you can see the photoetched brass detailing, and the painted acrylic facade. In the context of the film, this is a deep-space battle station of the Galactic Empire, capable of annihilating planets and civilizations, and in reality it measures about four feet by two feet. (Laughter)
这个用淡色便签做成的东西, 是乔治卢卡斯的个人收藏。 这是一个死去的星球。 展示的是它真实的方向。 在星球大战之绝地归来中, 展示了它的镜像图。 它们反响旋转。 你可以看到光刻黄铜的细节, 以及塑料表面上的图画。 在电影中, 它是银河帝国的深空大战发生的地方, 能够消灭星球和文明。 而在现实中,它只有大约四尺乘以两尺大小。 (笑)
This is at Fort Campbell in Kentucky. It's a Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain site. Essentially they've simulated a city for urban combat, and this is one of the structures that exists in that city. It's called the World Church of God. It's supposed to be a generic site of worship. And after I took this photograph, they constructed a wall around the World Church of God to mimic the set-up of mosques in Afghanistan or Iraq. And I worked with Mehta Vihar who creates virtual simulations for the army for tactical practice. And we put that wall around the World Church of God, and also used the characters and vehicles and explosions that are offered in the video games for the army. And I put them into my photograph.
这是在肯塔基州的福特坎贝尔。 这是一个“城市化地区”的军事行动 总体上,他们模拟了一个城市, 来模拟城市的战斗。 而这是那个城市里的许多结构中的一个。 它叫做“上帝的世界教堂”。 它本应是一个用作礼拜的普通教堂。 在我拍了这幅照片之后, 他们在“上帝的世界教堂”周围筑起了一面墙, 来模仿在阿富汗或伊拉克建起的清真寺。 我与迈塔维亚, 他为军队的战术训练 创建了这些模拟环境。 我们在“上帝的世界教堂”周围筑起围墙, 并使用了人物、交通工具和爆炸效果, 这些都是为制造军用电子游戏的提供的 于是我把他们都装进了我的照片。
This is live HIV virus at Harvard Medical School, who is working with the U.S. Government to develop sterilizing immunity.
这是在哈佛医学院拍摄的活的艾滋病病毒。 哈佛医学院正与美国政府合作, 研制可以灭菌的免疫过程。
And Alhurra is a U.S. Government- sponsored Arabic language television network that distributes news and information to over 22 countries in the Arab world. It runs 24 hours a day, commercial free. However, it's illegal to broadcast Alhurra within the United States. And in 2004, they developed a channel called Alhurra Iraq, which specifically deals with events occurring in Iraq and is broadcast to Iraq.
Alhurra是一个美国政府支助的 阿拉伯语电视网络。 它为阿拉伯世界超过22个国家提供新闻和信息。 它每天运行24个小时,并且是免费的。 然而,在美国境内播放Alhurra是违法的。 在2004年,他们开发了一个叫做"Alhurra 伊拉克"的频道, 专门报道发生在伊拉克的事件, 并对伊拉克播放。
Now I'm going to move on to another project I did. It's titled "The Innocents." And for the men in these photographs, photography had been used to create a fantasy. Contradicting its function as evidence of a truth, in these instances it furthered the fabrication of a lie. I traveled across the United States photographing men and women who had been wrongfully convicted of crimes they did not commit, violent crimes.
现在,我要介绍我做的另一个项目。 名字叫做“无辜的人”。 对于这些照片上的人来说, 摄影已经成为了制造幻想的工具。 不仅仅反驳了事实, 摄影在这些事例中更沦为编织谎言的工具。 我穿越了整个美国, 拍摄那些被误判的人们, 他们被迫承认他们并没有犯下的暴力罪行。
I investigate photography's ability to blur truth and fiction, and its influence on memory, which can lead to severe, even lethal consequences. For the men in these photographs, the primary cause of their wrongful conviction was mistaken identification. A victim or eyewitness identifies a suspected perpetrator through law enforcement's use of images. But through exposure to composite sketches, Polaroids, mug shots and line-ups, eyewitness testimony can change.
我调查了摄影混淆是非的能力, 以及它对于记忆的影响。 这样的影响可以导致非常严重,甚至致命的结果。 对于这些照片里的人, 造成他们误判的主要原因, 是错误的指认。 一个目击者 通过法律强制使用的影像 来指认嫌疑犯。 但看完混合草图、 宝丽来一次成像、脸部图像和一排人的图像后, 目击者的证词可能会改变。
I'll give you an example from a case. A woman was raped and presented with a series of photographs from which to identify her attacker. She saw some similarities in one of the photographs, but couldn't quite make a positive identification. Days later, she is presented with another photo array of all new photographs, except that one photograph that she had some draw to from the earlier array is repeated in the second array. And a positive identification is made because the photograph replaced the memory, if there ever was an actual memory.
我将给你一个这样的例子。 一个妇女被强奸了,而后警方给了她一系列的照片, 要她从中指认出强奸她的人。 她对其中的一张照片有点眼熟, 但并不能完全确定这个人就是罪犯。 几天后, 警方又给她一个新的照片系列。 不过第一列照片中只有之前她表示眼熟的照片, 重新出现在第二系列中。 于是,她做出了一个十分肯定的指认, 因为即使她真的有记忆, 照片也取代了记忆。
Photography offered the criminal justice system a tool that transformed innocent citizens into criminals, and the criminal justice system failed to recognize the limitations of relying on photographic identifications.
于是,照片为犯罪裁决系统 提供了一个能把无辜的人变成罪犯的工具。 而犯罪裁决系统并不能意识到 倚靠照片来指认的缺陷。
Frederick Daye, who is photographed at his alibi location, where 13 witnesses placed him at the time of the crime. He was convicted by an all-white jury of rape, kidnapping and vehicle theft. And he served 10 years of a life sentence. Now DNA exonerated Frederick and it also implicated another man who was serving time in prison. But the victim refused to press charges because she claimed that law enforcement had permanently altered her memory through the use of Frederick's photograph.
我为弗里德雷在这个由13名目击证人 指认他犯罪的地方照了这张照片。 他被一个由白人组成的陪审团 宣判犯有强奸、绑架和盗窃车辆罪。 他为此被判了10年的监禁。 现在,DNA洗清了弗里德雷的罪行, 这还牵涉到另一个 彼时在监狱服刑的人。 但是目击者拒绝为此负责, 她声称法律机关强制使用的弗里德雷的照片, 已经永久性地修改了她的记忆。
Charles Fain was convicted of kidnapping, rape and murder of a young girl walking to school. He served 18 years of a death sentence. I photographed him at the scene of the crime at the Snake River in Idaho. And I photographed all of the wrongfully convicted at sites that came to particular significance in the history of their wrongful conviction. The scene of arrest, the scene of misidentification, the alibi location. And here, the scene of the crime, it's this place to which he's never been, but changed his life forever. So photographing there, I was hoping to highlight the tenuous relationship between truth and fiction, in both his life and in photography.
查尔斯 费恩被判有绑架、强奸和谋杀 一名上学途中的女孩的罪名。 他为此被判死刑,服刑18年 我为他在爱达华的蛇河边照了相, 这就是案件发生的地方。 我为所有这些被误判的人们, 在他们被误判的历史中十分重要的 地方拍了照片。 这些是指他们被逮捕的地方,他们被错误指认的地方, 以及他们在案发当时所在的地方。 而这里——犯罪现场, 是他从来没有到过,却永远地改变了他的命运的地方。 所以,在那里照相,我希望能 强调在他的生命,以及在照片中, 是非之间脆弱的关系。
Calvin Washington was convicted of capital murder. He served 13 years of a life sentence in Waco, Texas.
凯文华盛顿被宣判犯有蓄意谋杀罪。 他在德州瓦克度过了13年的监禁岁月。
Larry Mayes, I photographed at the scene of arrest, where he hid between two mattresses in Gary, Indiana, in this very room to hide from the police. He ended up serving 18 and a half years of an 80 year sentence for rape and robbery. The victim failed to identify Larry in two live lineups and then made a positive identification, days later, from a photo array.
我为拉里梅在印第安纳州盖里拍了这张照片。 这是他被捕的地方,当时就在这个房间里,藏在两个床垫之间, 躲避警察的抓捕。 他因强奸和抢劫罪,被判了80年监禁, 最后服刑18年半。 目击证人在两次排队照片中 没有指认出拉里, 却在几天之后从一系列照片中 肯定了拉里是罪犯。
Larry Youngblood served eight years of a 10 and half year sentence in Arizona for the abduction and repeated sodomizing of a 10 year old boy at a carnival. He is photographed at his alibi location.
拉里杨伯德被判在一个嘉年华上 拐骗和鸡奸一名10岁男童罪 他在亚利桑那州服了10年监禁中的8年。 他在案发当时他所在的地方照了相。
Ron Williamson. Ron was convicted of the rape and murder of a barmaid at a club, and served 11 years of a death sentence. I photographed Ron at a baseball field because he had been drafted to the Oakland A's to play professional baseball just before his conviction. And the state's key witness in Ron's case was, in the end, the actual perpetrator.
罗威廉姆森被判强奸并杀害 一名酒吧女服务员, 并被判死刑,服刑了11年。 我为罗在一个棒球场照了相, 因为就在他被判有罪之前, 他刚刚加入奥克兰棒球队,准备开始职业棒球生涯。 而最后才证实, 罗的案子中最重要的目击证人,才是真正的罪犯。
Ronald Jones served eight years of a death sentence for rape and murder of a 28-year-old woman. I photographed him at the scene of arrest in Chicago.
罗纳德琼斯因强奸并杀害一名28岁女子 而被判死刑,服刑8年。 我为他在芝加哥被捕地点照了一张相。
William Gregory was convicted of rape and burglary. He served seven years of a 70 year sentence in Kentucky.
威廉格里格雷被判为强奸和入室盗窃罪,监禁70年。 他在肯塔基州过了其中7年的牢狱生活。
Timothy Durham, who I photographed at his alibi location where 11 witnesses placed him at the time of the crime, was convicted of 3.5 years of a 3220 year sentence, for several charges of rape and robbery. He had been misidentified by an 11-year-old victim.
我为蒂姆德伦在案发时他不在的地方照了相。 而11名目击证人指正他在这里犯下强奸和抢劫罪。 他因此被判3220年监禁, 服刑了3年半。 服刑了3年半。 他是被一名11岁的证人错误指认的。
Troy Webb is photographed here at the scene of the crime in Virginia. He was convicted of rape, kidnapping and robbery, and served seven years of a 47 year sentence. Troy's picture was in a photo array that the victim tentatively had some draw toward, but said he looked too old. The police went and found a photograph of Troy Webb from four years earlier, which they entered into a photo array days later, and he was positively identified.
卓伊韦伯在弗吉尼亚的犯罪现场被拍摄了这张照片。 他被判有强奸、绑架和抢劫罪, 在监狱里度过了47年刑罚中的7年。 卓伊是在一系列照片中被证人指认的, 证人对这个指认并不十分确定, 认为卓伊看起来太老了一点。 于是警察就去找了一张卓伊 四年前的照片, 几天后把它放进照片系列里, 于是卓伊就被指认了。
Now I'm going to leave you with a self portrait. And it reiterates that distortion is a constant, and our eyes are easily deceived. That's it. Thank you. (Applause)
现在,我要最后展示一个我的自拍照。 它继续说明了相片的失真是经常发生的, 而我们的眼睛非常容易受到欺骗。 谢谢大家。 (鼓掌)