I'd like to do pretty much what I did the first time, which is to choose a lighthearted theme. Last time, I talked about death and dying.
Želeo bih da uradim isto što i prvi put, a to je da izaberem neku vedru temu. Prošli put sam govorio o smrti i umiranju.
(Laughter)
Ovaj put ću govoriti o mentalnim bolestima.
This time, I'm going to talk about mental illness.
(Laughter)
But it has to be technological, so I'll talk about electroshock therapy.
Ali pošto mora biti u skladu sa tehnologijom, govoriću o terapiji elektrošokovima. (Smeh)
(Laughter)
Znate, otkad je čovek primetio
You know, ever since man had any notion that some of his other people, his colleagues, could be different, could be strange, could be severely depressed or what we now recognize as schizophrenia, he was certain that this kind of illness had to come from evil spirits getting into the body. So the way of treating these diseases in early times was to, in some way or other, exorcise those evil spirits. And this is still going on, as you know.
da neko od njegovih bližnjih, njegovih kolega, može biti drugačiji, može biti čudan, može biti ozbiljno depresivan ili ono što danas prepoznajemo kao šizofreniju, bio je siguran da je ova vrsta bolesti morala da dolazi od zlih duhova koji zaposedaju telo. Pa, način da se leče ove bolesti u ranijim vemenima je bio, na jedan ili drugi način, isterivanje ovih zlih duhova, a ovo se i dalje dešava, kao što znate.
But it wasn't enough to use the priests. When medicine became somewhat scientific, in about 450 BC, with Hippocrates and those boys, they tried to look for herbs, plants that would literally shake the bad spirits out. So they found certain plants that could cause convulsions. And the herbals, the botanical books of up to the late Middle Ages, the Renaissance, are filled with prescriptions for causing convulsions to shake the evil spirits out.
Ali nije dovoljno samo prisustvo sveštenika. Kada je medicina postala koliko-toliko naučna, otprilike oko 450. godine p.n.e., sa Hipokratom i tim momcima, oni su pokušavali da nađu lekovito bilje, biljke koje bi bukvalno otresle loše duhove van. Tako da su našli određene biljke koje izazivaju konvulzije. A knjige lekovitog bilja, botaničke knjige sve do kasnog srednjeg veka, renesanse su pune recepata za izazivanje konvulzija koji bi istresli zle duhove.
Finally, in about the 16th century, a physician whose name was Theophrastus Bombastus Aureolus von Hohenheim -- called Paracelsus, a name probably familiar to some people here --
Konačno, otprilike u 16. veku, lekar čije je ime Teofrastus Bombastus Aureolus fon Hoenajm, zvani Paracelzus, ovo ime je verovatno poznato nekima od vas -
(Laughter)
(Smeh) - dobri, stari Paracelzus
good old Paracelsus -- found that he could predict the degree of convulsion by using a measured amount of camphor to produce the convulsion. Can you imagine going to your closet, pulling out a mothball and chewing on it if you're feeling depressed? It's better than Prozac, but I wouldn't recommend it.
je otkrio da može predvideti stepen konvulzija koristeći izmerenu količinu kamfora da bi proizveo konvulzije. Možete li da zamislite da odete do vašeg ormara, uzmete kuglicu protiv moljaca i žvaćete je ukoliko ste depresivni? Bolje je od prozaka, ali ga ja ne bih preporučio.
(Laughter)
Ono što vidimo je da se u 17., 18. veku
So, what we see in the 17th, 18th century is the continued search for medications other than camphor that'll do the trick. Well, along comes Benjamin Franklin, and he comes close to convulsing himself with a bolt of electricity off the end of his kite. And so people begin thinking in terms of electricity to produce convulsions.
konstantno traže lekovi osim kamfora koji će da urade šta treba. Zatim dolazi Bendžamin Franklin i biva blizu da i sebi izazove konvulzije munjom elektriciteta sa kraja njegovog zmaja. Tako su ljudi počeli da razmišljaju o električnoj struji zarad proizvodnje konvulzija.
And then we fast-forward to about 1932, when three Italian psychiatrists who were largely treating depression began to notice among their patients, who were also epileptics, that if they had a series of epileptic fits, a lot of them in a row -- the depression would very frequently lift. Not only would it lift, but it might never return. So they got very interested in producing convulsions, measured types of convulsions.
Zatim idemo u 1932. godinu, kada su 3 italijanska psihijatra, koji su mahom lečili depresiju, primetili među svojim pacijentima, koji su takođe epileptičari, da ako imaju seriju epileptičnih napada, dosta njih zaredom - depresija će vrlo često prestati. Ne samo da će prestati, već se možda nikad neće ni vratiti. Zato su postali veoma zainteresovani za stvaranje konvulzija, izmerene tipove konvulzija.
And they thought, "Well, we've got electricity, we'll plug somebody into the wall. That always makes hair stand up and people shake a lot." So they tried it on a few pigs, and none of the pigs were killed. So they went to the police and they said, "We know that at the Rome railroad station, there are all these lost souls wandering around, muttering gibberish. Can you bring one of them to us?" Someone who is, as the Italians say, "gagootz." So they found this "gagootz" guy, a 39-year-old man who was really hopelessly schizophrenic, who was known, had been known for months, to be literally defecating on himself, talking nothing that made any sense, and they brought him into the hospital. So these three psychiatrists, after about two or three weeks of observation, laid him down on a table, connected his temples to a very small source of current. They thought, "Well, we'll try 55 volts, two-tenths of a second. That's not going to do anything terrible to him." So they did that.
Pomislili su: "Pa, imamo struju, samo ćemo priključiti nekoga za zid. To uvek diže kosu na glavi i ljudi se mnogo tresu." To su pokušali na nekoliko svinja i nijedna svinja nije ubijena. Tako da su otišli do policije i rekli: "Znamo da su na železničkoj stanici u Rimu sve te izgubljene duše koje tumaraju okolo, mrmljajući besmislice. Možete li da nam dovedete jednog?" Nekoga ko je, što bi Italijani rekli "tikva". Te su našli tog "tikva" lika, 39-godišnjeg čoveka koji je beznadežni šizofreničar, koji je mesecima bio poznat po tome što je bukvalno vršio nuždu po sebi, nije govorio ništa što ima smisla i doveli su ga u bolnicu. Ova 3 psihijatra su ga, nakon 2-3 nedelje posmatranja, postavili na sto, povezali njegove slepoočnice na mali izvor struje. Mislili su: "Pokušaćemo sa 55 volti, 2 desetine sekunde. To mu neće učiniti ništa strašno." Pa su to i učinili.
Well, I have the following from a firsthand observer, who told me this about 35 years ago, when I was thinking about these things for some research project of mine. He said, "This fellow" -- remember, he wasn't even put to sleep -- "after this major grand mal convulsion, sat right up, looked at these three fellas and said, 'What the fuck are you assholes trying to do?'"
Sledeće sam čuo od neposrednog posmatrača koji mi je ovo rekao pre 35 godina, kada sam razmišljao o ovim stvarima za neki moj projekat. Rekao je: "Ovaj momak" - zapamtite, on nije bio uopšte uspavan - "nakon ove glavne, zle konvulzije, je ustao, pogledao ovu trojicu i rekao: "Šta kog đavola pokušavate da uradite?"" (Smeh)
(Laughter) If I could only say that in Italian.
Kad bih samo mogao to da kažem na italijanskom.
(Laughter)
Oni su bili presrećni jer on
Well, they were happy as could be, because he hadn't said a rational word in the weeks of observation.
nije rekao racionalnu reč svih nedelja posmatranja.
(Laughter)
Te su ga priključili ponovo,
So they plugged him in again, and this time, they used 110 volts for half a second. And to their amazement, after it was over, he began speaking like he was perfectly well. He relapsed a little bit, they gave him a series of treatments, and he was essentially cured. But of course, having schizophrenia, within a few months, it returned.
ali su ovaj put koristili 110 volti pola sekunde. I na njihovo zaprepašćenje, kada je bilo gotovo, on je počeo da govori kao da je savršeno zdrav. Malo je popustio, pa su mu dali seriju tretmana i on je bio u suštini izlečen. Ali naravno, pošto je imao šizofreniju, ona se nakon par meseci vratila.
But they wrote a paper about this, and everybody in the western world began using electricity to convulse people who were either schizophrenic or severely depressed. It didn't work very well on the schizophrenics, but it was pretty clear in the '30s and by the middle of the '40s that electroconvulsive therapy was very, very effective in the treatment of depression.
Ali su napisali rad o ovome i svako u zapadnom svetu je počeo da koristi električnu struju za izazivanje konvulzija kod ljudi koji su ili šizofeničari ili ozbiljno depresivni. Ovo nije bilo uspešno kod šizofreničara, ali je bilo jasno u '30-im i do sredine '40-ih da je terapija elektrokonvulzijama vrlo efikasna u lečenju depresije.
And of course, in those days, there were no antidepressant drugs, and it became very, very popular. They would anesthetize people, convulse them ... But the real difficulty was that there was no way to paralyze muscles. So people would have a real grand mal seizure. Bones were broken; especially in old, fragile people, you couldn't use it. And then in the late 1950s, the so-called "muscle relaxants" were developed by pharmacologists, and it got so that you could induce a complete convulsion, an electroencephalographic convulsion -- you could see it on the brain waves -- without causing any convulsion in the body except a little bit of twitching of the toes. So again, it was very, very popular and very, very useful.
I naravno, u tom vremenu nije bilo antidepresiva, pa je ovo postalo veoma popularno. Oni bi davali ljudima anesteziju, izazivali konvulzije, ali prava poteškoća je bila to što nije postojao način da se paralizuju mišići. Zato su ljudi imali stvarno veliki napad. Kosti su lomljene. Posebno kod starih, krhkih ljudi niste mogli ovo da koristite. Zatim u kasnim 1950-im, takozvane lekove za opuštanje mišića su napravili farmaceuti i došlo je do toga da je mogla da se izazove potpuna konvulzija, elektroencefalografska konvulzija - što možete videti na osnovu moždanih talasa - bez izazivanja konvulzija u telu izuzev malog peckanja u prstima. Opet, to je bilo veoma popularno i veoma korisno.
Well, you know, in the middle '60s, the first antidepressants came out. Tofranil was the first. In the late '70s, early '80s, there were others, and they were very effective. And patients' rights groups seemed to get very upset about the kinds of things that they would witness, so the whole idea of electroconvulsive, electroshock therapy disappeared, but has had a renaissance in the last 10 years. And the reason that it has had a renaissance is that probably about 10 percent of the people, severe depressives, do not respond, regardless of what is done for them.
Pa, znate, sredinom1960-ih, proizvedeni su prvi antidepresivi. Tofranil je bio prvi. Kasnih 1970-ih, ranih 1980-ih, postojali su i drugi i bili su vrlo efikasni. A grupe za zaštitu prava pacijenata su se veoma uznemirile zbog stvari kojima su prisustvovale. Tako je cela ideja elektrokonvulzivne, elektrošok terapije nestala, ali je doživela preporod u poslednjih 10 godina. A razlog za ovaj preporod je to što oko 10 posto ljudi, ozbiljno depresivnih, ne reaguju, bez obzira kako ih tretiraju.
Now why am I telling you this story at this meeting? I'm telling you this story because, actually, ever since Richard called me and asked me to talk about -- as he asked all of his speakers -- to talk about something that would be new to this audience that we had never talked about, never written about. I've been planning this moment. This reason really is that I am a man who, almost 30 years ago, had his life saved by two long courses of electroshock therapy. And let me tell you this story.
Zašto vam govorim ovo na ovom sastanku? Govorim vam ovu priču jer me je Ričard pozvao i pitao da govorim o - kao što je pitao sve svoje govornike - da govorim o nečemu što bi bilo novo za ovu publiku, o čemu dosad nismo pričali, nismo pisali, isplanirao sam ovaj trenutak. Razlog je zapravo taj što sam ja čovek kom je, pre skoro 30 godina, spašen život sa 2 duga tretmana terapije elektrošokom. Dozvolite mi da vam ispričam tu priču.
I was, in the 1960s, in a marriage. To use the word "bad" would be perhaps the understatement of the year. It was dreadful. There are, I'm sure, enough divorced people in this room to know about the hostility, the anger, who knows what. Being someone who had had a very difficult childhood, a very difficult adolescence -- it had to do with not quite poverty, but close. It had to do with being brought up in a family where no one spoke English, no one could read or write English. It had to do with death and disease and lots of other things. I was a little prone to depression.
Bio sam 1960-ih u braku. Nazvati ga lošim bi verovatno bilo premalo rečeno. Bio je užasan. Ima, siguran sam, dovoljno razvedenih ljudi u ovoj prostoriji koji su upoznati sa ovim neprijateljstvima, besom, ko zna sa čim još. Pošto sam neko ko je imao teško detinjstvo, tešku adolescenciju - što je imalo veze sa ne baš siromaštvom, ali blizu toga. Imalo je veze sa odrastanjem u porodici u kojoj niko nije govorio engleski, niko nije ni čitao ni pisao na engleskom. Imalo je veze sa smrću i bolešću i mnogim drugim stvarima. Bio sam malo sklon depresiji.
So, as things got worse, as we really began to hate each other, I became progressively depressed over a period of a couple of years trying to save this marriage, which was inevitably not to be saved. Finally, I would schedule -- all my major surgical cases, I was scheduling them for 12, one o'clock in the afternoon, because I couldn't get out of bed before about 11 o'clock. Anybody who's been depressed here knows what that's like. I couldn't even pull the covers off myself.
Kako su se stvari pogoršale i kako smo stvarno počeli da mrzimo jedno drugo, postao sam progresivno depresivan u roku od par godina, pokušavajući da spasem brak, koji se neizbežno nije mogao spasiti. Konačno, zakazivao bih - sve svoje veće hirurške slučajeve, zakazivao bih ih za 12, 1 sat popodne jer nisam mogao da ustanem pre 11 sati. Svako ko je bio depresivan zna kako to izgleda. Nisam mogao čak ni prekrivač da skinem sa sebe.
Well, you're in a university medical center, where everybody knows everybody. And it's perfectly clear to my colleagues, so my referrals began to decrease. As my referrals began to decrease, I clearly became increasingly depressed, until I thought, "My God, I can't work anymore." And, in fact, it didn't make any difference, because I didn't have any patients anymore.
Pa, vi ste u univerzitetskom medicinskom centru, gde svako poznaje svakoga i sve je savršeno jasno mojim kolegama, pa su moje preporuke počele da opadaju. Kako su se moje preporuke smanjivale, postao sam još depresivniji dok nisam pomislio, moj bože, ja više ne mogu da radim. I zapravo, nije bilo nikakve razlike jer i onako nisam više imao pacijenata.
So, with the advice of my physician, I had myself admitted to the acute care psychiatric unit of our university hospital. And my colleagues, who had known me since medical school, in that place, said, "Don't worry, Shep. Six weeks, you're back in the operating room. Everything's going to be great." Well, you know what bovine stercus is? That proved to be a lot of bovine stercus.
Kako me je savetovao moj lekar, prijavio sam se za akutnu negu u psihijatrijskoj jedinici naše univerzitetske bolnice. Moje kolege, koje su me znale još od medicinske škole u tom mestu, su mi rekle: "Ne brini druže. Za 6 nedelja bićeš ponovo u operacionoj sali. Sve će biti dobro." Da li znate sta je goveđi izmet? E pa ispostavilo se da je to gomila goveđeg izmeta.
(Laughter)
I know some people who got tenure in that place with lies like that.
Znam neke ljude koji su osvojili mandat na tom mestu sa lažima poput ovih.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
(Laughter and applause)
So I was one of their failures.
Tako da sam bio jedan od njihovih promašaja.
But it wasn't that simple, because by the time I got out of that unit, I was not functional at all. I could hardly see five feet in front of myself. I shuffled when I walked. I was bowed over. I rarely bathed. I sometimes didn't shave. It was dreadful. And it was clear -- not to me, because nothing was clear to me at that time anymore -- that I would need long-term hospitalization in that awful place called a "mental hospital."
Ali nije bilo tako jednostavno. Jer kada sam izašao iz te jedinice nisam uopšte mogao da funkcionišem. Jedva sam video na metar i po ispred sebe. Teturao sam se dok hodam. Bio sam nakrivljen. Retko sam se kupao. Nekad se nisam ni brijao. Bilo je užasno. I postalo je jasno - ne meni, jer meni više ništa nije bilo jasno u to vreme - da će mi trebati dugotrajna hospitalizacija u tom groznom mestu zvanom mentalna bolnica.
So I was admitted, in the spring of 1973, to the Institute of Living, which used to be called the Hartford Retreat. It was founded in the 18th century, the largest psychiatric hospital in the state of Connecticut, other than the huge public hospitals that existed at that time. And they tried everything they had.
Bio sam primljen 1973., u proleće 1973. u Living institut, koji se ranije zvao Hartford Retreat. Osnovan je u 18. veku, najveća psihijatrijska bolnica u državi Konektikat, za razliku od ogromnih javnih bolnica koje su postojale u to vreme.
They tried the usual psychotherapy. They tried every medication available in those days. And they did have Tofranil and other things -- Mellaril, who knows what. Nothing happened except that I got jaundiced from one of these things. And finally, because I was well-known in Connecticut, they decided they better have a meeting of the senior staff. All the senior staff got together, and I later found out what happened.
Pokušali su sa svim što su imali. Pokušali su sa psihoterapijom. Pokušali su sa svim lekovima dostupnim u to vreme. A imali su tofranil i druge stvari - melaril, ko zna šta sve. Ništa se nije desilo osim što sam dobio žuticu od jedne od ovih stvari. I konačno, pošto sam bio opšte poznat u Konektikatu, odlučili su da sazovu sastanak uprave. Uprava se sastala i kasnije sam saznao šta se dogodilo.
They put all their heads together, and they decided that there was nothing that could be done for this surgeon who had essentially separated himself from the world, who by that time had become so overwhelmed, not just with depression and feelings of worthlessness and inadequacy, but with obsessional thinking, obsessional thinking about coincidences. And there were particular numbers that every time I saw them, just got me dreadfully upset, all kinds of ritualistic observances ... just awful, awful stuff. Remember when you were a kid, and you had to step on every line? Well, I was a grown man who had all of these rituals, and it got so there was a throbbing, there was a ferocious fear in my head. You've seen this painting by Edvard Munch, "The Scream." Every moment was a scream; it was impossible.
Svi su razmislili i rešili da ne postoji ništa što može da se uradi za ovog hirurga koji se suštinski odvojio od sveta, koji je do tada postao toliko preplavljen, ne samo depresijom i osećanjima beskorisnosti i neadekvatnosti, već i opsesivnim razmišljanjima, opsesivnim mislima o slučajnostima. Postojali su određeni brojevi koji su me svaki put kada bih ih video, užasno uznemiravali - sve vrste ritualnih posmatranja, samo užasne, užasne stvari. Sećate se kada ste bili deca i morali ste da nagazite na svaku liniju? Pa, ja sam bio odrastao čovek koji je imao sve ove rituale i postalo je tako probadajuće da se stvorio surovi strah u mojoj glavi. Videli ste ovu sliku Edvarda Munka, Vrisak. Svaki trenutak je bio vrisak.
So they decided there was no therapy, there was no treatment. But there was one treatment, which actually had been pioneered at the Hartford Hospital in the early 1940s, and you can imagine what it was: it was prefrontal lobotomy.
Bio je nemoguće. Zato su odlučili da nema terapije, da nema lečenja. Ali postojao je jedan tretman, koji je zapravo bio započet u Hartford bolnici u ranim 1940-im i možete zamisliti šta je to bilo. Bila je to prefrontalna lobotomija.
(Imitates a popping sound) So they decided -- I didn't know this, again, I found this out later -- that the only thing that could be done was for this 43-year-old man to have a prefrontal lobotomy.
Zato su rešili - nisam znao za ovo, opet, saznao sam tek kasnije - da jedina stvar koja se može uraditi je da ovaj 43-godišnjak ima prefrontalnu
Well, as in all hospitals, there was a resident assigned to my case. He was 27 years old, and he would meet with me two or three times a week. And of course, I had been there, what, three or four months at the time. He asked to meet with the senior staff, and they agreed to meet with him, because he was very well thought of in that place. They thought he had a really extraordinary future.
lobotomiju. Kao i u svim bolnicama, jedan stažista je dodeljen mom slučaju. Imao je 27 godina i posećivao me je 2-3 puta nedeljno. I naravno, ja sam bio tamo oko 3-4 meseca u to vreme. I on je tražio da se sastane sa upravom, oni su prihvatili da se sastanu sa njim jer su svi imali dobro mišljenje o njemu. Mislili su da ga čeka zaista izuzetna budućnost.
And he dug in his heels and said, "No. I know this man better than any of you. I have met with him over and over again. You've just seen him from time to time. You've read reports and so forth. I really honestly believe that the basic problem here is pure depression, and all of the obsessional thinking comes out of it. And you know, of course, what'll happen if you do a prefrontal lobotomy. Any of the results along the spectrum, from pretty bad to terrible, terrible, terrible, is going to happen. If he does the best he can, he will have no further obsessions, probably no depression, but his affect will be dulled, he will never go back to surgery, he will never be the loving father that he was to his two children, his life will be changed. If he has the usual result, he'll end up like 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.' And you know about that, just essentially in a stupor the rest of his life."
On je izvukao iz petnih žila i rekao: "Ne. Poznajem ovog čoveka bolje nego bilo ko od vas. Viđao sam ga iznova i iznova. Vi ste ga viđali s vremena na vreme. Pročitali ste izveštaje i tako dalje. Zaista verujem da je glavni problem ovde čista depresija i da sva ta opsesivna razmišljanja dolaze od nje. A znate, naravno, šta će se desiti ako izvedete prefrontalnu lobotomiju. Svi rezultati širom spektra, od prilično loših ka očajnim, očajnim, očajnim će se desiti. Ako se svojski potrudi, on neće imati više opsesije, verovatno ne depresiju, ali njegove reakcije će biti otupljene, nikad se neće vratiti hirurgiji, nikad neće biti dobar otac svoja 2 deteta, njegov život će se promeniti. Ako ima uobičajene rezultate, završiće kao "Let iznad kukavičjeg gnezda". A znate sve o tome, samo u suštini obamrlost do kraja svog života."
"Well," he said, "can't we try a course of electroshock therapy?" And you know why they agreed? They agreed to humor him. They just thought, "Well, we'll give a course of 10. So we'll lose a little time. Big deal. It doesn't make any difference." So they gave the course of 10, and the first -- the usual course, incidentally, was six to eight, and still is six to eight -- plugged me into the wires, put me to sleep, gave me the muscle relaxant. Six didn't work. Seven didn't work. Eight didn't work. At nine, I noticed -- it's wonderful that I could notice anything -- I noticed a change. And at 10, I noticed a real change.
Pa, rekao je: "Možemo li da probamo sa elektrošok terapijom?" I znate li zašto su se složili? Složili su se da bi mu udovoljili. Samo su pomislili: "Pa, daćemo mu 10 tretmana. Time ćemo malo da izgubimo vreme. Jaka stvar. Ionako ništa neće da se promeni." Te su dali 10 tretmana, i prvi je - uobičajen tretman, slučajno, bio 6 do 8 i dalje je 6 do 8. Priključili su me na žice, uspavali me, dali mi lek za opuštanje mišića. 6 nije delovalo. 7 nije delovalo. 8 nije delovalo. Kod 9., sam primetio - bilo je sjajno što sam bilo šta primetio - primetio sam promenu. A kod 10. sam osetio pravu promenu. On se vratio kod njih i oni su pristali na još 10.
And he went back to them, and they agreed to do another 10. Again, not a single one of them -- I think there are about seven or eight of them -- thought this would do any good. They thought this was a temporary change. But, lo and behold, by 16, by 17, there were demonstrable differences in the way I felt. By 18 and 19, I was sleeping through the night. And by 20, I had the sense, I really had the sense, that I could overcome this, that I was now strong enough that by an act of will, I could blow the obsessional thinking away. I could blow the depression away.
Ponovo, nijedan od njih - mislim da ih je bilo oko 7 ili 8 - nije mislio da će ovo pomoći. Mislili su da je to privremena promena. Ali vidite, do 16., do 17., bilo je očiglednih razlika u tome kako sam se osećao. Do 18. i 19., spavao sam cele noći. Do 20. imao sam osećaj, zaista sam imao osećaj da mogu ovo da prevaziđem, da sam sada dovoljno jak da snagom volje, mogu da odagnam opsesivna razmišljanja. Da mogu da odagnam depresiju.
And I've never forgotten -- I never will forget -- standing in the kitchen of the unit -- it was a Sunday morning in January of 1974 -- standing in the kitchen by myself and thinking, "I've got the strength now to do this." It was as though those tightly coiled wires in my head had been disconnected, and I could think clearly. But I need a formula. I need some thing to say to myself when I begin thinking obsessionally, obsessively. Well, the Gilbert and Sullivan fans in this room will remember "Ruddigore," and they will remember Mad Margaret, and they will remember that she was married to a fella named Sir Despard Murgatroyd. And she used to go nuts every five minutes or so in the play. And he said to her, "We must have a word to bring you back to reality, and the word, my dear, will be 'Basingstoke.'" So every time she got a little nuts, he would say, "Basingstoke!" And she would say, "Basingstoke, it is!" And she'd be fine for a little while.
I nikada nisam zaboravio - nikad neću zaboraviti - stajao sam u kuhinji na odeljenju, bila je nedelja ujutru januara 1974., stajao sam u kuhinji na odeljenju sam i razmišljao: "Sada imam snage da ovo prevaziđem." To je bilo kao da su se one čelične žice u mojoj glavi isključile i mogu da razmišljam jasno. Ali treba mi formula. Treba mi nešto da kažem sebi kada počnem opsesivno da razmišljam. Pa, fanovi Gilberta i Salivena u ovoj prostoriji se sećaju Rudigora i setiće se Mad Margaret i setiće se da je ona bila udata za momka po imenu ser Despard Murgatrojd. Ona je imala običaj da poludi na svakih 5 minuta u predstavi, i on joj je rekao: "Moramo da imamo reč koja će te vratiti u realnost i ta reč, draga moja, biće Basingstok." Tako da svaki put kad bi malo poludela, on bi rekao: "Basingstok!" i ona bi rekla:
(Laughter)
"Basingstok, će biti." I bila bi dobro neko vreme.
Well, you know, I'm from the Bronx. I can't say "Basingstoke."
Znate ja sam iz Bronksa. Ja ne mogu reći: "Basingstok".
(Laughter)
Imao sam nešto bolje. I bilo je vrlo jednostavno.
But I had something better. And it was very simple. It was, "Ah, fuck it!"
Bilo je: "E, jebi ga!"
(Laughter)
(Smeh) Mnogo bolje od: "Basingstok",
Much better than "Basingstoke," at least for me. And it worked! My God, it worked. Every time I would begin thinking obsessionally -- again, once more, after 20 shock treatments -- I would say, "Ah, fuck it." And things got better and better, and within three or four months, I was discharged from that hospital. I joined a group of surgeons, where I could work with other people, in a community, not in New Haven, but fairly close by. I stayed there for three years.
bar za mene. I upalilo je - moj bože, upalilo je. Svaki put kad bih počeo opsesivno da razmišljam - opet, još jednom, nakon 20 šok tretmana - rekao bih: "E, jebi ga." I bilo je sve bolje i bolje i u roku od 3 ili 4 meseca, otpušten sam iz bolnice i priključio sam se grupi hirurga, gde sam mogao da radim sa drugim ljudima u zajednici, ne u Nju Hejvenu, ali blizu toga. Ostao sam tamo 3 godine.
At the end of three years, I went back to New Haven, had remarried by that time. I brought my wife with me, actually, to make sure I could get through this. My children came back to live with us. We had two more children after that. Resuscitated the career, even better than it had been before. Went right back into the university and began to write books. Well, you know, it's been a wonderful life. It's been, as I said, close to 30 years. I stopped doing surgery about six years ago and became a full-time writer, as many people know. But it's been very exciting. It's been very happy. Every once in a while, I have to say, "Ah, fuck it." Every once in a while, I get somewhat depressed and a little obsessional. So, I'm not free of all of this. But it's worked. It's always worked.
Po završetku te 3 godine, vratio sam se u Nju Hejven, a u međuvremenu sam se ponovo oženio. Poveo sam suprugu sa sobom, zapravo, da bih bio siguran da mogu da prebrodim to. Moja deca su se vratila da žive sa nama. Imali smo još dvoje dece nakon toga. Oživeo sam karijeru, još više nego što je bila ranije. Vratio sam se pravo na univerzitet i počeo da pišem knjige. Znate, to je bio divan život. Prošlo je, kao što sam rekao, skoro 30 godina. Prestao sam da se bavim hirurgijom pre oko 6 godina i postao pisac sa punim radnim vremenom, kao što mnogi znaju. Bilo je veoma uzbudljivo. Bilo je veoma srećno. S vremena na vreme, moram da kažem: "E, jebi ga." S vremena na vreme, postanem pomalo depresivan i malo opsesivan. Tako da se nisam oslobodio svega toga. Ali je upalilo. Uvek upali.
Why have I chosen, after never, ever talking about this, to talk about it now? Well, those of you who know some of these books know that one is about death and dying, one is about the human body and the human spirit, one is about the way mystical thoughts are constantly in our minds. And they have always to do with my own personal experiences. One might think reading these books -- and I've gotten thousands of letters about them by people who do think this -- that, based on my life's history as I portray it in the books, my early life's history, I am someone who has overcome adversity, that I am someone who has drunk -- drank? -- drunk of the bitter dregs of near-disaster in childhood and emerged not just unscathed but strengthened. I really have it figured out so that I can advise people about death and dying, so that I can talk about mysticism and the human spirit.
Zašto sam izabrao, nakon što nikada nisam govorio o ovome, da govorim sada? Oni koji znaju neke od ovih knjiga znaju da je jedna o smrti i umiranju, jedna je o ljudskom telu i ljudskom duhu, jedna je o načinu na koji su mistične misli uvek u našem umu i one uvek imaju veze sa mojim ličnim iskustvom. Neko bi pomislio čitajući ove knjige - a dobio sam hiljade pisama o njima od ljudi koji zaista ovo misle - da zasnovano na istoriji mog života kao što sam opisao u knjigama, istorija mog ranog života, ja sam neko ko je prevazišao nesreću. A to je da sam ja, neko ko je pijan, pio, pije gorak talog zamalo katastrofalnog detinjstva, isplivao ne samo nepovređen već i ojačan. Zaista sam shvatio, tako da mogu da savetujem ljude o smrti i umiranju, tako da mogu da pričam o misticizmu i ljudskom duhu.
And I've always felt guilty about that. I've always felt that somehow I was an impostor, because my readers don't know what I have just told you. It's known by some people in New Haven, obviously, but it is not generally known. So one of the reasons that I have come here to talk about this today is to -- frankly, selfishly -- unburden myself and let it be known that this is not an untroubled mind that has written all of these books.
Oduvek sam se osećao krivim zbog toga. Oduvek sam osećao da sam nekako uljez jer moji čitaoci ne znaju šta sam vama upravo rekao. Poznato je nekim ljudima u Nju Hejvenu, očito, ali nije opšte poznato. Stoga, jedan od razloga zbog kog sam došao ovde da govorim o ovome danas je da - iskreno, sebično - rasteretim sebe i stavim do znanja da ovo nije neopterećen mozak koji je napisao sve ove knjige.
But more importantly, I think, is the fact that a very significant proportion of people in this audience are under 30, and there are many, of course, who are well over 30. For people under 30, and it looks to me like almost all of you, I would say all of you, are either on the cusp of a magnificent and exciting career or right into a magnificent and exciting career: anything can happen to you. Things change. Accidents happen. Something from childhood comes back to haunt you. You can be thrown off the track. I hope it happens to none of you, but it will probably happen to a small percentage of you. To those to whom it doesn't happen, there will be adversities. If I, with the bleakness of spirit -- with no spirit -- that I had in the 1970s, and no possibility of recovery as far as that group of very experienced psychiatrists thought, if I can find my way back from this, believe me, anybody can find their way back from any adversity that exists in their lives.
Ali što je još važnije, mislim, je činjenica da veoma značajan deo ljudi u publici ima ispod 30 godina i ima mnogih, naravno, koji su uveliko prešli 30. Za ljude ispod 30, a meni se čini da skoro svi vi - rekao bih svi vi - su ili na vrhuncu veličanstvene i uzbudljive karijere ili usred veličanstvene i uzbudljive karijere: svašta vam se može desiti. Stvari se menjaju. Nesreće se dešavaju. Nešto iz detinjstva se vrati da vas proganja. Možete ispasti iz koloseka. Nadam se da se to nikome od vas neće desiti, ali verovatno će se desiti malom delu vas. Za one kojima se ne desi, postojaće nesreće. Ako ja, sa opustelim duhom, bez duha, ono što sam doživljavao 1970-ih, bez mogućnosti oporavka, kao što je ta grupa veoma iskusnih psihijatara mislila, ako sam ja mogao da nađem izlaz iz toga, verujte mi, svako može da nađe izlaz iz bilo koje nesreće koja postoji u našim životima.
And for those who are older, who have lived through perhaps not something as bad as this, but who have lived through difficult times, perhaps where they lost everything, as I did, and started out all over again: some of these things will seem very familiar. There is recovery. There is redemption. And there is resurrection. There are resurrection themes in every society that has ever been studied, and it is because not just only do we fantasize about the possibility of resurrection and recovery, but it actually happens. And it happens a lot.
A za one koji su stariji, koji su preživeli nešto možda ne toliko loše kao ovo, ali koji su proživeli teška vremena, gde su možda izgubili sve, kao ja i počeli sve ispočetka, nešto od ovoga će im delovati vrlo poznato. Postoji oporavak. Postoji iskupljenje. I postoji vaskrsnuće. Postoje teme o vaskrsnuću u svakom društvu koje je ikada bilo proučavano i to ne samo što maštamo o mogućnosti vaskrsnuća i oporavka, već zato što se to zaista dešava. I dešava se često.
Perhaps the most popular resurrection theme, outside of specifically religious ones, is the one about the phoenix, the ancient story of the phoenix, who, every 500 years, resurrects itself from its own ashes to go on to live a life that is even more beautiful than it was before.
Možda najpopularnija tema o vaskrsnuću, van onih religioznih, je ona o feniksu, drevna priča o feniksu, koji, svakih 500 godina, vaskrsne iz svog pepela da bi živeo život koji je još lepši od prethodnog. Ričarde,
Richard, thanks very much.
mnogo ti hvala.