I'm going to ask and try to answer, in some ways, kind of an uncomfortable question. Both civilians, obviously, and soldiers suffer in war; I don't think any civilian has ever missed the war that they were subjected to. I've been covering wars for almost 20 years, and one of the remarkable things for me is how many soldiers find themselves missing it. How is it someone can go through the worst experience imaginable, and come home, back to their home, and their family, their country, and miss the war? How does that work? What does it mean? We have to answer that question, because if we don't, it'll be impossible to bring soldiers back to a place in society where they belong, and I think it'll also be impossible to stop war, if we don't understand how that mechanism works.
接下来我会问一些而且也会回答一些 令人感到不太舒服的问题 很显然,不管是老百姓还是士兵 都深受战争之苦 我觉得老百姓中不会有哪个人会想念 曾经经历过的战争 20多年来我一直致力于战地报道 有一件事让我感触很深 那就是许多士兵会怀念战争 而当一个人 在经历了无法想象的艰难困苦之后 终于回到故土,回到自己的家 回到亲人中间,回到祖国之后,却怎么会怀念战争? 这是为什么?这又意味着什么? 我们必须要回答这个问题 因为不这样的话,就不能够 让士兵们重新融入 他们曾经生活的社会环境中 而且要想阻止战争 就必须知道这其中的道理
The problem is that war does not have a simple, neat truth, one simple, neat truth.
但是,关于战争有个问题 那就是没有一个简单、清楚的评述 哪怕是一个这样的评述都没有
Any sane person hates war, hates the idea of war, wouldn't want to have anything to do with it, doesn't want to be near it, doesn't want to know about it. That's a sane response to war. But if I asked all of you in this room, who here has paid money to go to a cinema and be entertained by a Hollywood war movie, most of you would probably raise your hands. That's what's so complicated about war. And trust me, if a room full of peace-loving people finds something compelling about war, so do 20-year-old soldiers who have been trained in it, I promise you. That's the thing that has to be understood.
任何一个有理智的人都厌恶战争 厌恶打仗这种想法 不想与战争有任何干系 不想听,也不想知道 这是对于战争应有的反应 但如果我问在座的各位 有没有花过钱 去电影院 看精彩的好莱坞战争大片? 应该大多数人都会举手 这就是为什么很难评说战争 而且我敢说,即使一群和平爱好者中间 也不乏有人认为战争具有吸引力 更何况是对于一个20岁出头的小伙子 经受了战争的洗礼,他更能感受战争的诱惑 我们必须要明白这一点
I've covered war for about 20 years, as I said, but my most intense experiences in combat were with American soldiers in Afghanistan. I've been in Africa, the Middle East, Afghanistan in the '90s, but it was with American soldiers in 2007, 2008, that I was confronted with very intense combat. I was in a small valley called the Korengal Valley in eastern Afghanistan. It was six miles long. There were 150 men of Battle Company in that valley, and for a while, while I was there, almost 20 percent of all the combat in all of Afghanistan was happening in those six miles. A hundred and fifty men were absorbing almost a fifth of the combat for all of NATO forces in the country, for a couple months. It was very intense. I spent most of my time at a small outpost called Restrepo. It was named after the platoon medic that had been killed about two months into the deployment. It was a few plywood B-huts clinging to a side of a ridge, and sandbags, bunkers, gun positions, and there were 20 men up there of Second Platoon, Battle Company. I spent most of my time up there. There was no running water. There was no way to bathe. The guys were up there for a month at a time. They never even got out of their clothes. They fought. The worked. They slept in the same clothes. They never took them off, and at the end of the month, they went back down to the company headquarters, and by then, their clothes were unwearable. They burned them and got a new set. There was no Internet. There was no phone. There was no communication with the outside world up there. There was no cooked food. There was nothing up there that young men typically like: no cars, no girls, no television, nothing except combat. Combat they did learn to like.
我从事战地报道20年 记忆最深的当数 和在阿富汗的美国士兵们在战场上出生入死的经历 我去过非洲、中东 早在90年代就去过阿富汗 但是和美国士兵在一起的经历是2007和08年 当时,我参加了一场 非常激烈的战争 当时我在一个叫科伦加尔山谷的小村庄 位于东阿富汗 战线有六公里长 当地的战地部队有150人 而且当时,也就是我在当地停留期间 将近百分之二十的战斗发生 发生在阿富汗全境中 这条6公里长的战线上 这150名士兵 参与了1/5的倾注了北约所有兵力的战斗 这些发生在阿富汗持续了几个月 战斗异常激烈 我大部分的时间都是在一个 叫雷斯特雷波的小哨站度过的。 这曾是一个野战排医疗兵的名字 他在战地工作两个月后就牺牲了 所谓的哨站就是几个胶合板搭建的兵舍 靠着山脊的一侧而建 还有沙袋、掩体和火力点 那里总共有20个人 隶属战地连第二排 我在那儿度过了很长的时间 没有自来水 没法洗澡 士兵们在那儿一待就要待一个月 从来没脱过衣服 不管是战斗、执行任务 还是睡觉,都穿着同样的衣服 他们从来不脱衣服,等到月底 他们被换下来回到大本营时 身上的衣服都不能穿了 他们就把衣服烧掉,再领一身新的 那儿也没法上网,没有电话 与外界完全失去联系 没有现做的食物 没有任何 年轻人可以喜欢的东西。 没车,没妞,没电视,什么都没有 除了战争 于是他们慢慢喜欢上了战争
I remember one day, it was a very hot day in the spring, and we hadn't been in a fight in a couple of weeks, maybe. Usually, the outpost was attacked, and we hadn't seen any combat in a couple of weeks, and everyone was just stunned with boredom and heat. And I remember the lieutenant walking past me sort of stripped to the waist. It was incredibly hot. Stripped to the waist, walked past me muttering, "Oh God, please someone attack us today." That's how bored they were. That's war too, is a lieutenant saying, "Please make something happen because we're going crazy."
我记得有次,一个大热天 还是春天 当时我们都已经闲了 大概好几个星期了 通常,哨站会遭遇袭击 但是当时已经有几周没有袭击了 每个人都感到晕晕的 又无聊又热 然后我记得一个中尉从我身边走过 光着上半身 因为当时太热太热了 他光着膀子走过,说: “天哪,来次袭击吧。” 他们真是无聊到不行了 但这也是战争的一部分,就像一个中尉说: “给我们点事儿干吧” “我们这就要疯了”
To understand that, you have to, for a moment, think about combat not morally -- that's an important job to do — but for a moment, don't think about it morally, think about it neurologically. Let's think about what happens in your brain when you're in combat. First of all, the experience is very bizarre, it's a very bizarre one. It's not what I had expected. Usually, you're not scared. I've been very scared in combat, but most of the time when I was out there, I wasn't scared. I was very scared beforehand and incredibly scared afterwards, and that fear that comes afterwards can last years. I haven't been shot at in six years, and I was woken up very abruptly this morning by a nightmare that I was being strafed by aircraft, six years later. I've never even been strafed by aircraft, and I was having nightmares about it. Time slows down. You get this weird tunnel vision. You notice some details very, very, very accurately and other things drop out. It's almost a slightly altered state of mind. What's happening in your brain is you're getting an enormous amount of adrenaline pumped through your system. Young men will go to great lengths to have that experience. It's wired into us. It's hormonally supported. The mortality rate for young men in society is six times what it is for young women from violence and from accidents, just the stupid stuff that young men do: jumping off of things they shouldn't jump off of, lighting things on fire they shouldn't light on fire, I mean, you know what I'm talking about. They die at six times the rate that young women do. Statistically, you are safer as a teenage boy, you would be safer in the fire department or the police department in most American cities than just walking around the streets of your hometown looking for something to do, statistically.
要理解他们的想法 你必须临时 从非道德的角度思考一下战争 这很重要 只是临时地,不从道德的角度 而是神经学的角度 大家现在想一下 当你身处在战争中时,你脑子里会想些什么 首先,这种经历 是很奇怪的,非常非常奇怪 我之前从来没有想到过 通常你不会感到害怕 我曾经害怕过 但大多数时候我在那儿 是不感到害怕的 去之前害怕过 回来之后也后怕 这种后怕能持续几年的时间 我已经有6年的时间没暴露在枪林弹雨细下了 但是今天早上我猛然的惊醒 就是因为我梦到我被战机扫射 这都过了6年了 我从没被战机扫射过 但做梦却梦到了 时间慢了下来 你的视角变得狭窄 能异常敏锐地注意到细枝末节的事情 对其他事情置之不理 这种思维方式可以说起了一定的变化 你的大脑 由于异常多的肾上腺素而受到过多刺激 这些刺激扩散到整个体内 年轻人对这种刺激 的感受更加深刻 这种感觉输入到我们体内 伴随着激素的作用 社会上,年轻男性的死亡率 是女性的6倍 不管是因为暴力,还是意外 反正就是年轻人喜欢干的那些蠢事 从不该跳的地方跳了下去 把不该点的东西点着了 总之你懂得 年轻男性的死亡率 6倍于年轻女性 从数字上来说,一个小伙子 如果呆在美国城市里的消防队 或者警察局 会比在老家的街上闲逛、 找事情干,要安全得多 这仅仅是从数字的角度看
You can imagine how that plays out in combat. At Restrepo, every guy up there was almost killed, including me, including my good friend Tim Hetherington, who was later killed in Libya. There were guys walking around with bullet holes in their uniforms, rounds that had cut through the fabric and didn't touch their bodies.
你可以想象一下如果是在战争中这是不是也是一样 在雷斯特雷波,几乎每个人都命悬一线 包括我在内 包括我的好朋友蒂姆·赫瑟林顿 他后来在利比亚牺牲了 那里的士兵 穿着被子弹打穿的制服 子弹打穿了布料 没碰到他们的身体
I was leaning against some sandbags one morning, not much going on, sort of spacing out, and some sand was kicked into the side of, sort of hit the side of my face. Something hit the side of my face, and I didn't know what it was. You have to understand about bullets that they go a lot faster than sound, so if someone shoots at you from a few hundred meters, the bullet goes by you, or hits you obviously, half a second or so before the sound catches up to it. So I had some sand sprayed in the side of my face. Half a second later, I heard dut-dut-dut-dut-duh. It was machine gun fire. It was the first round, the first burst of an hour-long firefight. What had happened was the bullet hit, a bullet hit three or four inches from the side of my head. Imagine, just think about it, because I certainly did, think about the angle of deviation that saved my life. At 400 meters, it missed me by three inches. Just think about the math on that. Every guy up there had some experience like that, at least once, if not many times.
一天早上,我靠着沙袋站在那儿 没事可干,正想什么想得出神 这时一些沙子飞起 打在了我的侧脸上 我感觉到有东西打在我脸上,但是不知道是什么 你应该知道子弹这玩意儿 它飞起来比声音还要快 如果有人朝你开枪 射程也就几百米的话 子弹或者与你擦肩而过,或者击中你 而枪声半秒之后才会传来 所以当我感到有沙子打到我的侧脸上时 半秒之后,我听到了突突突突的枪声 这是机关枪的声音 这是第一轮袭击 枪战维持了一个小时之久 刚开始我感觉到的飞来的沙子应该是子弹溅起的 这颗子弹隔着三四英尺从我脑袋边飞过 想象一下,其实我后来也的确想了 就是这点偏差救了我一命 400米开外射来的子弹,3英尺的偏差,没有击中我 想想这些数字吧 那里的每个士兵 都曾有过这样的经历 如果不是几次的话那至少也有一次
The boys are up there for a year. They got back. Some of them got out of the Army and had tremendous psychological problems when they got home. Some of them stayed in the Army and were more or less okay, psychologically. I was particularly close to a guy named Brendan O'Byrne. I'm still very good friends with him. He came back to the States. He got out of the Army. I had a dinner party one night. I invited him, and he started talking with a woman, one of my friends, and she knew how bad it had been out there, and she said, "Brendan, is there anything at all that you miss about being out in Afghanistan, about the war?" And he thought about it quite a long time, and finally he said, "Ma'am, I miss almost all of it." And he's one of the most traumatized people I've seen from that war. "Ma'am, I miss almost all of it."
这些年轻人在那儿待了一年之后 然后回家 一些人复员之后回到家时 心理上还有严重的问题 一些人继续留在军队 心理状况稍微好些 我和一个叫布伦丹·欧博恩的小伙子走得很近 我们现在也还是好朋友 他回到美国之后离开了部队 一次,我举办了个晚宴 邀请了他 在晚宴上他和一位女士交谈 这位女士也是我的朋友 她知道战地生活的险恶 她说:“布伦丹, 在阿富汗打仗 有没有什么让你怀恋的?” 他想了很久 最后说:“太太,我怀念那里所有的一切。” 他是我见过的经历了战争的人中 受创伤最为严重的人之一 他说的这句“太太,我怀念那里所有的一切。”
What is he talking about? He's not a psychopath. He doesn't miss killing people. He's not crazy. He doesn't miss getting shot at and seeing his friends get killed. What is it that he misses? We have to answer that. If we're going to stop war, we have to answer that question.
他是想表达什么呢? 他不是神经病 也不喜欢杀人 没有疯,也不喜欢被枪击中 看到朋友牺牲 那他怀念的是什么?这个问题我要来回答 如果想要阻止战争发生,我们就必须回答这个问题
I think what he missed is brotherhood. He missed, in some ways, the opposite of killing. What he missed was connection to the other men he was with. Now, brotherhood is different from friendship. Friendship happens in society, obviously. The more you like someone, the more you'd be willing to do for them. Brotherhood has nothing to do with how you feel about the other person. It's a mutual agreement in a group that you will put the welfare of the group, you will put the safety of everyone in the group above your own. In effect, you're saying, "I love these other people more than I love myself."
我认为,他怀念的是兄弟情谊 从某种程度上说,他怀念的 是杀戮的对立面 是他与其它士兵之间的 联系 这里,兄弟情谊不同于友谊 友谊多见于社会上 你越喜欢一个人 你越情愿为他付出 但是兄弟情谊却与 对他人的感觉无关 在一个群体中 大家都会把整个群体的安危 他人的安危 置于自己的安危之上 实际上就相当于说 ”我爱其他人胜过爱自己“
Brendan was a team leader in command of three men, and the worst day in Afghanistan — He was almost killed so many times. It didn't bother him. The worst thing that happened to him in Afghanistan was one of his men was hit in the head with a bullet in the helmet, knocked him over. They thought he was dead. It was in the middle of a huge firefight. No one could deal with it, and a minute later, Kyle Steiner sat back up from the dead, as it were, because he'd come back to consciousness. The bullet had just knocked him out. It glanced off the helmet. He remembers people saying, as he was sort of half-conscious, he remembers people saying, "Steiner's been hit in the head. Steiner's dead." And he was thinking, "I'm not dead." And he sat up. And Brendan realized after that that he could not protect his men, and that was the only time he cried in Afghanistan, was realizing that. That's brotherhood.
布伦丹是一名队长 手下有三个士兵 他在阿富汗经历了最惨痛的一天 虽然他自己也几次险些丧生 但这些对他都不算什么 对他来说最惨痛的是 他手下的一名士兵被子弹射中头部 子弹打到了钢盔上,把他冲倒了 大家以为他死了 当时战事正酣 没人顾得上他,直到一分钟以后 这名叫凯尔·斯坦纳的士兵坐了起来 好像是复活了一样 因为他又恢复了知觉 子弹把他震晕了 钢盔替他挡住了子弹 他记得 在他处于半清醒状态时 听到人们说: “斯坦纳被射中了头部。斯坦纳死了。” 他想:“我没死。” 于是坐了起来 之后布伦丹意识到 自己没能保护自己的手下 在阿富汗那么久,他第一次哭了 因为他意识到没能保护他的战士 这就是兄弟情谊
This wasn't invented recently. Many of you have probably read "The Iliad." Achilles surely would have risked his life or given his life to save his friend Patroclus. In World War II, there were many stories of soldiers who were wounded, were brought to a rear base hospital, who went AWOL, crawled out of windows, slipped out doors, went AWOL, wounded, to make their way back to the front lines to rejoin their brothers out there. So you think about Brendan, you think about all these soldiers having an experience like that, a bond like that, in a small group, where they loved 20 other people in some ways more than they loved themselves, you think about how good that would feel, imagine it, and they are blessed with that experience for a year, and then they come home, and they are just back in society like the rest of us are, not knowing who they can count on, not knowing who loves them, who they can love, not knowing exactly what anyone they know would do for them if it came down to it. That is terrifying. Compared to that, war, psychologically, in some ways, is easy, compared to that kind of alienation. That's why they miss it, and that's what we have to understand and in some ways fix in our society.
这不是什么新词 在座的应该都读过《伊利亚特》 阿喀琉斯宁可牺牲自己 也要保护他的朋友普特罗克勒斯 在二战期间,也有许多故事 关于受伤士兵的故事 他们被送去后方战地医院 可是他们会逃跑 爬墙穿门 即使身负重伤 也要回到战场 回到战士们中间 所以想到布伦丹 就能想到这些战士 他们有着这样的经历,彼此之间建立起重要的纽带 在一个小群体中 关心着其他20个人 胜过关心自己 可以想象一下这是一种怎样的经历 他们有幸能有这样的经历 后来回到家中 回到社会中 像我们普通人一样 不知道自己可以依赖谁 不知道谁关心自己,也不知道有谁值得自己关心 不知道那些自己熟悉的人 在自己倒下时会作何反应 这是很恐怖的事情 相比之下 从心理上说,战争是很简单的 没有这种陌生感 这就是为什么老兵会恋战 我们必须要理解这种陌生感 并且尝试找到办法去回应这一问题
Thank you very much.
谢谢大家
(Applause)
(掌声)