[This talk contains graphic content. Viewer discretion is advised.]
【本讲座包含图片内容,请观者自酌。】
This is Nina Rodríguez's Facebook profile. This person had three different profiles and 890 kids between 8 and 13 years old among her friends list. These are excerpts of a chat with one of those kids. This is an exact copy of the chat. It's part of the case file. This kid started sending private photos until his family realized what was going on. The police report and subsequent investigation lead them to a house. This was the girl's bedroom. Nina Rodríguez was actually a 24-year-old man that used to do this with lots of kids.
这是妮娜 · 罗德里格斯 (Nina Rodríguez)的脸谱网账号。 她有三个不同的主页。 在她的好友列表里,有 890 位 年龄在 8 至 13 岁之间的儿童。 这是她与其中一位儿童的对话片段。 这是他们的原话。 这些记录是本案档案中的一部分。 随后,这位孩子便开始发送私密照片, 直到被他的家人发现为止。 警方根据举报以及随后的调查 找到了一处住所。 这就是那个 “女孩” 的卧室。 妮娜 · 罗德里格斯实际上 是一个 24 岁的男人, 并且他曾经对许多儿童做过同样的事。
Micaela Ortega was 12 years old when she went to meet her new Facebook friend, also 12. "Rochi de River," was her name. She actually met Jonathan Luna, who was 26 years old. When they finally caught him, he confessed that he killed the girl because she refused to have sex with him. He had four Facebook profiles and 1,700 women on his contact list; 90 percent of them were under 13 years old.
米卡罗 · 奥特加(Micaela Ortega) 是一个 12 岁的女孩, 她正准备去见一位同样是 12 岁的 脸谱网上的新网友, 名叫罗契·德·瑞弗(Rochi de River)。 然而她实际上见到的却是 26 岁的 乔纳森 · 卢纳(Jonathan Lun)。 当他终于被捕时, 他承认杀死了那个女孩, 因为她拒绝与他发生性关系。 他有四个不同的脸谱网账号。 在他的联系人列表里有 1700 位女性, 她们中 90% 的人 年龄在 13 岁以下。
These are two different cases of "grooming": an adult contacts a kid through the internet, and through manipulation or lying, leads that kid into sexual territory -- from talking about sex to sharing private photos, recording the kid using a webcam or arranging an in-person meeting. This is grooming. This is happening, and it's on the rise. The question is: What are we going to do? Because, in the meantime, kids are alone. They finish dinner, go to their rooms, close the door, get on their computer, their cell phones, and get into a bar, into a club.
这是两个不同的关于“网络性诱拐” (grooming)的案例: 一个成年人通过网络联系上一个儿童, 随后通过操纵或诱骗, 引导那个孩子进入性领域—— 谈论性、 分享私密照片、 通过网络摄像机拍摄他们、 或是安排一次单独会面。 这就是网络性诱拐。 这一切正在发生,且数量越来越多。 问题是:我们该怎么办? 因为与此同时,孩子们正孤立无援。 他们吃完晚餐,回到自己的房间, 关上房门, 打开电脑和手机, 便能走入一个虚拟的酒吧, 或一个线上的俱乐部。
Think for one second about what I've just said: they're in a place full of strangers in an uninhibited environment. The internet broke physical boundaries. When we're alone in our bedroom and we go online, we're not really alone.
想一想我刚才说的话: 他们走入了一个充满陌生人 且一切都不受限制的地方。 网络打破了物理上的边界。 当我们独自呆在卧室里上网时, 我们并非真的独自一人。
There are at least two reasons why we're not taking care of this, or at least not in the right way. First, we're sure that everything that happens online is "virtual." In fact, we call it "the virtual world." If you look it up in the dictionary, something virtual is something that seems to exist but is not real. And we use that word to talk about the internet: something not real. And that's the problem with grooming. It is real. Degenerate, perverted adults use the internet to abuse boys and girls and take advantage of, among other things, the fact that the kids and their parents think that what happens online doesn't actually happen.
至少有两个原因 使我们没有注意到这一切, 或者至少没有正确地认识到这一切。 第一,我们相信一切 发生在网上的事情都是“虚拟”的。 事实上,我们称之为“虚拟世界”。 你可以去查查字典, 所谓“虚拟”就是指 一个看上去存在的事物, 但它实际上并不是真实的。 我们用它来形容网络: 一个并不真实的世界。 而这就是网络性诱拐的问题所在了。 它是真实的。 堕落、变态的成人 利用网络来猥亵少年和少女, 并且除了别的之外, 他们还利用了儿童和父母的想法: 发生在网络上的事情 并没有真正发生。
Several years ago, some colleagues and I founded an NGO called "Argentina Cibersegura," dedicated to raising awareness about online safety. In 2013, we attended meetings at the House of Legislature to discuss a law about grooming. I remember that a lot of people thought that grooming was strictly a precursor to arranging an in-person meeting with a kid to have sex with them. But they didn't think about what happened to the kids who were exposed by talking about sex with an adult without knowing it, or who shared intimate photos thinking only another kid would see them, or even worse, who had exposed themselves using their web cam. Nobody considered that rape. I'm sure lots of you find it odd to think one person can abuse another without physical contact. We're programmed to think that way. I know, because I used to think that way. I was just an IT security guy until this happened to me.
几年前,我和一些同事 成立了一个非政府组织, 名叫 “阿根廷网络安全” (Argentina Cibersegura), 致力于提高人们的网上安全意识。 在 2013 年, 我们参与了众议院的会议, 讨论与网络性诱拐相关的法律。 我还记得当时有很多人认为 网络性诱拐只是 诱骗者与儿童安排个人见面 并发生与之性关系的前兆。 但他们没有考虑到 孩子们都经历了些什么: 他们和成年人讨论性话题 却浑然不知, 或是有孩子分享私密照片, 认为只有其他孩子看到; 或是更糟的, 有的孩子对着网络摄像机 露出自己的私密部位。 没有人认为这是一种强奸行为。 我相信你们中的很多人认为 不通过身体接触去猥亵 另一个人纯属无稽之谈。 我们都受到这种想法的局限。 我清楚这一点, 因为我曾经也这么认为。 我以前只是一个信息安全人员, 直到我遇见了这类事件。
At the end of 2011, in a little town in Buenos Aires Province, I heard about a case for the first time. After giving a talk, I met the parents of an 11-year-old girl who had been a victim of grooming. A man had manipulated her into masturbating in front of her web cam, and recorded it. And the video was on several websites. That day, her parents asked us, in tears, to tell them the magic formula for how to delete those videos from the internet. It broke my heart and changed me forever to be their last disappointment, telling them it was too late: once content is online, we've already lost control.
2011 年末, 在布宜诺斯艾利斯 省内的一个小镇上, 我第一次听说了此类事件。 在一次聊天之后, 我遇见了一对父母, 他们 11 岁的女儿 是网络性诱拐的受害者。 一个男人唆使她 在网络摄像机前自慰, 并且录了下来。 她的视频在各个网站上流传。 在那天,她的父母哭着来问我, 让我告诉他们一个魔法公式, 可以把那个视频从网络中抹去。 接下来的事让我伤心欲绝, 并永远改变了我: 我成了最后一根救命稻草, 却不得不告诉他们已经太迟了, 一旦内容被上传至网络, 我们就没办法控制它了。
Since that day, I think about that girl waking up in the morning, having breakfast with her family, who had seen the video, and then walking to school, meeting people that had seen her naked, arriving to school, playing with her friends, who had also seen her. That was her life. Exposed. Of course, nobody raped her body. But hadn't her sexuality been abused?
自从那天起, 我就一直在想着那个女孩。 想着她在早上醒来后, 便与曾看过她的录像的父母 共进早餐; 随后她走去学校, 去见那些曾看过她裸体的人; 到了学校后, 和那些同样看过的朋友一起玩。 就这样度日。 被彻底暴露。 当然,没有人强奸她的肉体。 但她难道就没有遭到性侵犯吗?
We clearly use different standards to measure physical and digital things. And we get angry at social networks because being angry with ourselves is more painful and more true. And this brings us to the second reason why we aren't paying proper attention to this issue. We're convinced that kids don't need our help, that they "know everything" about technology.
很明显,我们用不同的标准 来衡量物理上和数据上的事物。 此外,我们还将怒火转向社交网络, 因为相较之下对我们自己的愤怒 会更加疼痛、真切。 而这便引出了 我们没有给予这些问题 恰当关注的第二个原因。 我们确信孩子们不需要我们的帮助, 因为他们对科技“无所不知”。
When I was a kid, at one point, my parents started letting me walk to school alone. After years of taking me by the hand and walking me to school, one day they sat me down, gave me the house keys and said, "Be very careful with these; don't give them to anyone, take the route we showed you, be at home at the time we said, cross at the corner, and look both ways before you cross, and no matter what, don't talk to strangers." I knew everything about walking, and yet, there was a responsible adult there taking care of me. Knowing how to do something is one thing, knowing how to take care of yourself is another. Imagine this situation: I'm 10 or 11 years old, I wake up in the morning, my parents toss me the keys and say, "Seba, now you can walk to school alone." And when I come back late, they say, "No, you need to be home at the time we said." And two weeks later, when it comes up, they say, "You know what? You have to cross at the corner, and look both ways before crossing." And two years later, they say, "And also, don't talk to strangers." It sounds absurd, right?
当我还是个小孩的时候, 在我 8 岁的某一天, 我的父母让我独自走去学校。 在数年里, 都是他们牵着我的手送我去学校, 但那天,他们让我坐下, 给了我家里的钥匙, 然后对我说: “保管好它们,别给任何人, 按我们教你的路线走, 按我们约定的时间回家, 在拐角处过马路, 过马路前记得左右看看, 最重要的是不要和陌生人说话。” 我当然知道该如何走路。 但以前有负责任的大人在照顾我。 知道如何做一件事是一回事, 而知道如何照顾自己则是另一回事。 想像一下这样一个场景: 我是一名 10 或 11 岁的 小孩在早上醒来, 父母直接抛给我一串钥匙然后说: “塞巴,现在你可以 自己一人走去学校了。” 而直到有一天我晚回家时, 他们才说:“不能这样, 你必须按时回家。” 在两周之后, 他们才突然想起来要叮嘱我: “你知道吗, 你应该在拐角处过马路, 并且记得在那之前要左右看看。” 甚至直到两年之后,他们才说: “还有,不要和陌生人说话。” 这听起来很荒唐,不是吗?
We have the same absurd behavior in relation to technology. We give kids total access and we see if one day, sooner or later, they learn how to take care of themselves. Knowing how to do something is one thing, knowing how to take care of yourself is another.
然而在处理与科技的关系时, 我们也有相同的荒唐行为。 我们让儿童随意接触它们, 因为我们相信迟早有一天 他们会学会如何照顾自己。 但知道如何做一件事情是一回事, 而知道如何照顾自己则是另一回事。
Along those same lines, when we talk to parents, they often say they don't care about technology and social networks. I always rejoin that by asking if they care about their kids. As adults, being interested or not in technology is the same as being interested or not in our kids. The internet is part of their lives. Technology forces us to rethink the relationship between adults and kids. Education was always based on two main concepts: experience and knowledge. How do we teach our kids to be safe online when we don't have either?
同样地,当我们和父母们聊天时, 他们经常说不在乎科技和社交网络。 我则会追问他们 是否在乎自己的孩子。 作为成年人, 我们是否对科技感兴趣 与我们是否对自己的孩子 感兴趣是一回事。 网络是他们生活的一部分。 科技让我们不得不重新审视 成人与儿童之间的关系。 教育总是基于两个主要理念: 经验和知识。 而当我们两者都不具备时, 又该如何教育孩子在网络上保护自己?
Nowadays, we adults have to guide our children through what is often for us unfamiliar territory -- territory much more inviting for them. It's impossible to find an answer without doing new things -- things that make us uncomfortable, things we're not used to.
如今,我们成年人必须在这个 对我们而言陌生的领域 始终引导着我们的孩子—— 对孩子而言更为诱人的领域。 如果不去接受那些会让我们 感到有些不适应的新事物, 那些我们不熟悉的新事物, 我们就永远找不到答案。
A lot of you may think it's easy for me, because I'm relatively young. And it used to be that way. Used to. Until last year, when I felt the weight of my age on my shoulders the first time I opened Snapchat.
你们也许会认为 这对我是一件简单的事, 因为我相对比较年轻。 曾经确实是这样。 曾经是。 直到去年, 当我第一次打开 Snapchat(阅后即焚) 时, 我终于感受到了年龄的重担。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
(Applause)
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I didn't understand a thing! I found it unnecessary, useless, hard to understand; it looked like a camera! It didn't have menu options! It was the first time I felt the gap that sometimes exists between kids and adults. But it was also an opportunity to do the right thing, to leave my comfort zone, to force myself. I never thought I'd ever use Snapchat, but then I asked my teenage cousin to show me how to use it. I also asked why she used it. What was fun about it? We had a really nice talk. She showed me her Snapchat, she told me things, we got closer, we laughed. Today, I use it.
我完全弄不懂这个软件! 我觉得它多余、 无用、晦涩难懂。 它看起来就是个照相机! 甚至没有菜单选项! 这是我第一次感受到代沟, 儿童与成人之间的代沟。 但这也是一个让我去做 我应做的事情的机会: 强迫我离开自己的心理舒适区。 我从不认为我会去使用 Snapchat, 但随后我请我十几岁的表妹 教我该如何使用它。 我同时也问她为什么会使用这个软件。 它有什么有趣的? 这是一次非常愉快的对话。 她向我展示了她的 Snapchat, 还教会了我很多东西, 我们变得更亲密了, 我们还一同欢笑。 如今,我也在用。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
I don't know if I do it right, but the most important thing is that I know it and I understand it. The key was to overcome the initial shock and do something new. Something new. Today, we have the chance to create new conversations. What's the last app you downloaded? Which social network do you use to contact your friends? What kind of information do you share? Have you ever been approached by strangers? Could we have these conversations between kids and adults? We have to force ourselves to do it. All of us. Today, lots of kids are listening to us. Sometimes when we go to schools to give our talks, or through social networks, kids ask or tell us things they haven't told their parents or their teachers. They tell us -- they don't even know us. Those kids need to know what the risks of being online are, how to take care of themselves, but also that, fundamentally, as with almost everything else, kids can learn this from any adult.
我不知道我是否做对了, 但更重要的是,我知道了它, 并且了解了它。 关键在于我们要克服 在最初时受到的冲击, 并去尝试新事物。 新的事物。 如今,我们有机会去进行新的对话。 你最近下载了什么手机软件? 你用哪个社交软件来联系朋友? 你会分享哪些信息? 你是否有被陌生人主动接触过? 成人能否与孩子们展开这类对话? 我们所有人都必须这么做。 如今,很多孩子都在听着我们。 有时,当我们去学校演讲时, 或是在社交网络上, 孩子们会问我们问题, 或是告诉我们一些 他们从未和父母或是老师说过的事情。 他们告诉我们这些事—— 而他们甚至根本不了解我们。 孩子们必须知道 网络给他们带来的风险, 以及当如何照顾自己。 并且,从根本上说, 像是其他几乎所有事情一样, 孩子可以从任何大人身上学到这些。
Online safety needs to be a conversation topic in every house and every classroom in the country. We did a survey this year that showed that 15 percent of schools said they knew of cases of grooming in their school. And this number is growing. Technology changed every aspect of our life, including the risks we face and how we take care of ourselves.
网络安全必须成为一个国家 每个家庭和学校都重视的话题。 我们今年的一项调查显示, 有 15% 的学校称 校内存在网络性诱拐的案例。 并且这一数字正在增长。 科技改变了生活中的方方面面, 包括我们所面对的风险, 以及该如何照顾我们自己。
Grooming shows us this in the most painful way: by involving our kids. Are we going to do something to avoid this? The solution starts with something as easy as: talking about it.
网络性诱拐以最痛苦的方式 让我们意识到这一点: 它伤害了我们的孩子。 我们是否应该付出努力 去避免这类事件? 解决这类问题的第一步其实很简单: 就是去谈论它。
Thank you.
谢谢。
(Applause)
(掌声)