[This talk contains graphic content. Viewer discretion is advised.]
[Ovaj video sadrži grafički sadržaj. Gledatelju se preporučuje oprez.]
This is Nina Rodríguez's Facebook profile. This person had three different profiles and 890 kids between 8 and 13 years old among her friends list. These are excerpts of a chat with one of those kids. This is an exact copy of the chat. It's part of the case file. This kid started sending private photos until his family realized what was going on. The police report and subsequent investigation lead them to a house. This was the girl's bedroom. Nina Rodríguez was actually a 24-year-old man that used to do this with lots of kids.
Ovo je Facebook profil Nine Rodríguez. Imala je tri različita profila i 890 dječaka starih između 8 i 13 godina među svojim kontaktima. Ovo su isječci razgovora s jednim od tih dječaka. Razgovor je tekstualan i nalazi se u dosjeu. Ovaj joj je dječak slao intimne slike sve dok njegova obitelj nije za to saznala. Optužbom i istragom koja je uslijedila razotkriveno je mjesto prebivališta. Ovo je bila njezina soba. Nina Rodríguez je u stvarnosti bila odrasla osoba od 24 godine koja je to običavala raditi mnogim maloljetnicima.
Micaela Ortega was 12 years old when she went to meet her new Facebook friend, also 12. "Rochi de River," was her name. She actually met Jonathan Luna, who was 26 years old. When they finally caught him, he confessed that he killed the girl because she refused to have sex with him. He had four Facebook profiles and 1,700 women on his contact list; 90 percent of them were under 13 years old.
Micaela Ortega imala je 12 godina kada se otišla naći s novom Facebook prijateljicom istih godina. Govorila je da se zove "Rochi de River". U stvarnosti se našla s Jonathanom Lunom (26) koji je, kad su ga konačno uhitili, priznao da ju je ubio jer djevojčica nije htjela imati seksualne odnose. On je imao četiri Facebook profila i 1700 žena među kontaktima. Devedeset posto njih bilo je mlađe od 13 godina.
These are two different cases of "grooming": an adult contacts a kid through the internet, and through manipulation or lying, leads that kid into sexual territory -- from talking about sex to sharing private photos, recording the kid using a webcam or arranging an in-person meeting. This is grooming. This is happening, and it's on the rise. The question is: What are we going to do? Because, in the meantime, kids are alone. They finish dinner, go to their rooms, close the door, get on their computer, their cell phones, and get into a bar, into a club.
Ovo su dva različita slučaja "groominga": odrasla osoba kontaktira maloljetnu preko Interneta te ih manipulacijom ili prijevarom dovodi do seksualnog područja, od razgovora o seksu do dijeljenja intimnih fotografija, snimanja preko web kamere ili dogovora fizičkog susreta. To je grooming. Postoji i dobiva na snazi. Pitanje je: "Što ćemo učiniti?" jer su u međuvremenu djeca sama. Završavaju s večerom, odlaze u sobu, zatvaraju vrata uzimaju računalo, mobitel i ulaze u klub, u disko.
Think for one second about what I've just said: they're in a place full of strangers in an uninhibited environment. The internet broke physical boundaries. When we're alone in our bedroom and we go online, we're not really alone.
Razmislite na sekundu o ovome što sam vam rekao: nalaze se na mjestu punom neznanaca u okruženju bez inhibicija. Internet je slomio fizičke prepreke. Kad smo sami u svojoj sobi i spojimo se na Internet, zapravo nismo sami.
There are at least two reasons why we're not taking care of this, or at least not in the right way. First, we're sure that everything that happens online is "virtual." In fact, we call it "the virtual world." If you look it up in the dictionary, something virtual is something that seems to exist but is not real. And we use that word to talk about the internet: something not real. And that's the problem with grooming. It is real. Degenerate, perverted adults use the internet to abuse boys and girls and take advantage of, among other things, the fact that the kids and their parents think that what happens online doesn't actually happen.
Postoje najmanje dva razloga zašto se ne zanimamo za ovu temu, odnosno zašto se ne zanimamo na pravi način. Prvi je zato što smo sigurni da je sve što se događa na Internetu virtualno. U biti, tako ga i zovemo: "virtualni svijet". Ako potražite u rječniku, virtualno znači nešto prividno i nestvarno. Koristimo tu riječ kad se radi o Internetu, nečemu nestvarnom. I u tome leži problem s groomingom, koji je stvaran. Poremećene, izopaćene odrasle osobe koriste Internet kako bi zlostavljale dječake i djevojčice. I koriste se, izmedu ostalog, time što roditelji i djeca misle da se ono što se ondje događa, zapravo ne događa.
Several years ago, some colleagues and I founded an NGO called "Argentina Cibersegura," dedicated to raising awareness about online safety. In 2013, we attended meetings at the House of Legislature to discuss a law about grooming. I remember that a lot of people thought that grooming was strictly a precursor to arranging an in-person meeting with a kid to have sex with them. But they didn't think about what happened to the kids who were exposed by talking about sex with an adult without knowing it, or who shared intimate photos thinking only another kid would see them, or even worse, who had exposed themselves using their web cam. Nobody considered that rape. I'm sure lots of you find it odd to think one person can abuse another without physical contact. We're programmed to think that way. I know, because I used to think that way. I was just an IT security guy until this happened to me.
Prije nekoliko godina s kolegama sam osnovao NVO, "Cybersigurna Argentina", koja se bavi osvještavanjem o sigurnom surfanju Internetom. U 2013. sudjelovali smo na sastancima Zastupničkog doma gdje se raspravljalo o Zakonu o groomingu. Sjećam se da je za mnoge grooming značio tek korak koji prethodi dogovoru za fizički susret s djecom i spolnim odnosima s njima. No, nisu mislili da se događa djeci koja su neznajući bila izložena razgovoru o seksu s odraslom osobom, koja su dijelila intimne slike misleći da će ih vidjeti drugo dijete ili, još gore, koja su se razotkrivala preko web kamere; nitko to nije doživljavao zlostavljanjem. Siguran sam da za mnoge od vas zvuči čudno da netko nekoga može zlostavljati a da ga pritom ne dotakne. Oblikovani smo da tako mislimo. Znam, jer sam i ja bio takav. Bio sam običan tehničar za informatičku sigurnost dok mi se nije dogodilo ovo.
At the end of 2011, in a little town in Buenos Aires Province, I heard about a case for the first time. After giving a talk, I met the parents of an 11-year-old girl who had been a victim of grooming. A man had manipulated her into masturbating in front of her web cam, and recorded it. And the video was on several websites. That day, her parents asked us, in tears, to tell them the magic formula for how to delete those videos from the internet. It broke my heart and changed me forever to be their last disappointment, telling them it was too late: once content is online, we've already lost control.
Krajem 2011. godine, u malom gradu provincije Buenos Aires, prvi sam put čuo za takav jedan slučaj. Kad sam završio s izlaganjem, prišli su mi roditelji jedanaestogodišnje djevojčice koja je bila žrtva groominga. Odrasla osoba ju je nagovorila da se samozadovolji pred web kamerom te ju je snimila. I video je kružio raznim Internet stranicama. Tog su nas dana roditelji u suzama molili da im damo recept kako maknuti te snimke s Interneta. Slomilo mi se srce, a dio mene se promijenio zauvijek; bio sam njihovo zadnje razočaranje i rekao da je za to prekasno. Jednom kad se sadržaj podijeli na Internetu nemamo više kontrolu nad njim.
Since that day, I think about that girl waking up in the morning, having breakfast with her family, who had seen the video, and then walking to school, meeting people that had seen her naked, arriving to school, playing with her friends, who had also seen her. That was her life. Exposed. Of course, nobody raped her body. But hadn't her sexuality been abused?
Od tog dana mislim na tu djevojčicu, koja se ujutro budi i doručkuje sa svojom obitelji koja je vidjela taj video, i odlazi u školu i putem susreće ljude koji su je vidjeli golu, i dolazi i igra se s prijateljima koji su je također takvu vidjeli. Tako živi. Izložena. Naravno da je nitko nije silovao. No, nije li njezina seksualnost iskorištena?
We clearly use different standards to measure physical and digital things. And we get angry at social networks because being angry with ourselves is more painful and more true. And this brings us to the second reason why we aren't paying proper attention to this issue. We're convinced that kids don't need our help, that they "know everything" about technology.
Očito je da imamo različite mjere za ono fizičko i ono digitalno. Ljutimo se na društvene mreže jer ljutiti se na nas same bilo bi bolnije i iskrenije. To nas dovodi do drugog razloga zašto se ne zanimamo za ovu temu na pravi način. Uvjereni smo da djeca ne trebaju našu pomoć, da im je tehnologija "jasna".
When I was a kid, at one point, my parents started letting me walk to school alone. After years of taking me by the hand and walking me to school, one day they sat me down, gave me the house keys and said, "Be very careful with these; don't give them to anyone, take the route we showed you, be at home at the time we said, cross at the corner, and look both ways before you cross, and no matter what, don't talk to strangers." I knew everything about walking, and yet, there was a responsible adult there taking care of me. Knowing how to do something is one thing, knowing how to take care of yourself is another. Imagine this situation: I'm 10 or 11 years old, I wake up in the morning, my parents toss me the keys and say, "Seba, now you can walk to school alone." And when I come back late, they say, "No, you need to be home at the time we said." And two weeks later, when it comes up, they say, "You know what? You have to cross at the corner, and look both ways before crossing." And two years later, they say, "And also, don't talk to strangers." It sounds absurd, right?
Kad sam ja bio dijete, u nekom su mi trenutku dopustili da idem sam u školu. Nakon što su me godinama starci držali za ruku, jednog dana su me posjeli, dali mi ključeve od kuće i rekli: "Dobro ih čuvaj, ne daj ih nikome, idi i vrati se putem koji smo ti pokazali, vrati se u vrijeme koje smo ti rekli, prijeđi cestu na uglu, a prije pogledaj lijevo i desno i, najvažnije, ne pričaj s nepoznatima". Jako sam dobro znao hodati, a ipak, tu je bila figura odrasle osobe zadužene da me pazi. Jedna je stvar znati nešto raditi, a druga je znati se paziti. Zamislite sa mnom sljedeću situaciju: imam 10 ili 11 godina, probudim se ujutro, bace mi ključeve od kuće i kažu: "Seba, danas možeš ići sam pješke u školu". I kad se vratim kasno, kažu mi: "Ah, ne! Moraš se vratiti u vrijeme koje ti kažemo". I dva tjedna kasnije, usputno: "Znaš što? Moraš prelaziti cestu na uglu i prije pogledati lijevo i desno". I dvije godine poslije: "Ah! I ne pričaj s nepoznatima". Zvuči blesavo, zar ne?
We have the same absurd behavior in relation to technology. We give kids total access and we see if one day, sooner or later, they learn how to take care of themselves. Knowing how to do something is one thing, knowing how to take care of yourself is another.
Tako se blesavo mi ponašamo s tehnologijom. Djeci dajemo potpuni pristup i čekamo hoće li jednog dana, kasnije no što bi trebali, naučiti kako se paziti. Jedna stvar je znati nešto učiniti, druga je znati se paziti.
Along those same lines, when we talk to parents, they often say they don't care about technology and social networks. I always rejoin that by asking if they care about their kids. As adults, being interested or not in technology is the same as being interested or not in our kids. The internet is part of their lives. Technology forces us to rethink the relationship between adults and kids. Education was always based on two main concepts: experience and knowledge. How do we teach our kids to be safe online when we don't have either?
Također, kad držimo govore za roditelje često nam kažu kako njih ne zanima tehnologija, kako ih ne zanimaju društvene mreže. Uvijek ih na to upitam zanimaju li ih njihova djeca. Za nas odrasle, približiti se ili ne tehnologiji znači isto što i približiti se ili ne djeci. Internet je dio njihovog života. Tehnologija nas tjera da promislimo o odnosu između odraslih i maloljetnika. Obrazovanje je uvijek počivalo na dva stupa: iskustvu i znanju. Kako onda možemo podučavati kako sigurno pretraživati Internet kad nemamo ni jedno ni drugo?
Nowadays, we adults have to guide our children through what is often for us unfamiliar territory -- territory much more inviting for them. It's impossible to find an answer without doing new things -- things that make us uncomfortable, things we're not used to.
Mi odrasli danas moramo usmjeravati djecu u područjima koje često ne poznajemo, a njima su vrlo bliska. Nemoguće je, dakle, pronaći odgovor ako se ne upustimo u stvari koje nam nisu toliko ugodne, na koje nismo navikli.
A lot of you may think it's easy for me, because I'm relatively young. And it used to be that way. Used to. Until last year, when I felt the weight of my age on my shoulders the first time I opened Snapchat.
Mnogi od vas možda misle da je meni sve ovo jednostavno jer sam relativno mlad. I uglavnom je to i bilo tako. Bilo. Do prošle godine kad sam osjetio teške godine na leđima prvi put kad sam otvorio Snapchat.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
I didn't understand a thing! I found it unnecessary, useless, hard to understand; it looked like a camera! It didn't have menu options! It was the first time I felt the gap that sometimes exists between kids and adults. But it was also an opportunity to do the right thing, to leave my comfort zone, to force myself. I never thought I'd ever use Snapchat, but then I asked my teenage cousin to show me how to use it. I also asked why she used it. What was fun about it? We had a really nice talk. She showed me her Snapchat, she told me things, we got closer, we laughed. Today, I use it.
Apsolutno ništa nisam shvaćao! Djelovao mi je kao nepotrebna društvena mreža, beskorisna, neshvatljiva; činio se poput fotoaparata! Nije imao izbornik s opcijama! Tad sam prvi put osjetio jaz koji ponekad postoji između djece i odraslih. Ali, istovremeno je to bila prilika da učinim nešto ispravno: da izađem iz ugodne zone i da se prislim. Osjećao sam da nikad u životu neću koristiti Snapchat. Ipak, kasnije sam upitao moju sestričnu, tinejdžericu, da mi objasni kako ga koristi. Ali, i zašto ga koristi. Zašto je zabavlja. Lijepo smo porazgovarali. Pokazala mi je svoj Snapchat, svašta mi ispričala, zbližili smo se i nasmijali. Danas ga koristim,
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
I don't know if I do it right, but the most important thing is that I know it and I understand it. The key was to overcome the initial shock and do something new. Something new. Today, we have the chance to create new conversations. What's the last app you downloaded? Which social network do you use to contact your friends? What kind of information do you share? Have you ever been approached by strangers? Could we have these conversations between kids and adults? We have to force ourselves to do it. All of us. Today, lots of kids are listening to us. Sometimes when we go to schools to give our talks, or through social networks, kids ask or tell us things they haven't told their parents or their teachers. They tell us -- they don't even know us. Those kids need to know what the risks of being online are, how to take care of themselves, but also that, fundamentally, as with almost everything else, kids can learn this from any adult.
ne znam koliko dobro, ali najbitnije je da mi je poznat i da ga razumijem. Ključ je bio u tome da se othrvam početnom dojmu, da se upustim učiniti nešto novo, nešto novo. Danas imamo priliku stvoriti nove dijaloge. Koja je zadnja aplikacija koju si skinuo? Na kojoj društvenoj mreži razgovaraš s prijateljima? Koju vrstu informacija dijeliš? Je li netko nepoznat probao razgovarati s tobom? Možemo li ovako razgovarati mi odrasli i djeca? Moramo se prisiliti, svi mi. I ovdje ima mnogo mladih koji nas slušaju. Često kad im držimo govore u školama ili na društvenim mrežama, djeca nas pitaju ili nam ispričaju stvari koje se nisu odvažili reći ni roditeljima ni nastavnicima, nama, koje ni ne poznaju. Ta djeca moraju znati koje su opasnosti surfanja po Internetu, kako se paziti i, najbitnije od svega, da, kao i sve ostalo dok su djeca, to mogu naučiti od bilo koje odrasle osobe.
Online safety needs to be a conversation topic in every house and every classroom in the country. We did a survey this year that showed that 15 percent of schools said they knew of cases of grooming in their school. And this number is growing. Technology changed every aspect of our life, including the risks we face and how we take care of ourselves.
Sigurno pretraživanje Interneta mora biti tema razgovora u svakoj kući i svakoj učionici u državi. U anketi koju smo proveli ove godine 15% škola reklo je da su se susreli sa slučajevima groominga u svojoj instituciji. Taj broj raste. Tehnologija je promijenila sve aspekte našeg života, uključujući i opasnosti s kojima se suočavamo, i način na koji se pazimo.
Grooming shows us this in the most painful way: by involving our kids. Are we going to do something to avoid this? The solution starts with something as easy as: talking about it.
Grooming nam je to pokazao na najbolniji način: okomivši se na djecu. Hoćemo li se uključiti da ga izbjegnemo? Rješenje polazi od vrlo jednostavnog poteza: razgovarati o toj temi.
Thank you.
Puno hvala.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)