Alisa Volkman: So this is where our story begins -- the dramatic moments of the birth of our first son, Declan. Obviously a really profound moment, and it changed our lives in many ways. It also changed our lives in many unexpected ways, and those unexpected ways we later reflected on, that eventually spawned a business idea between the two of us, and a year later, we launched Babble, a website for parents.
Alisa Volkman: Dakle, ovdje počinje naša priča -- dramatični trenuci rođenja našeg prvog sina, Declana. Očito veoma dubok trenutak, i promijenio je naše živote na mnogo načina. Ujedno je promijenio naše živote na mnogo neočekivanih načina, i ti neočekivani načini o kojima smo kasnije promišljali, su naposljetku izrodili poslovnu ideju nas dvoje, i godinu dana kasnije, lansirali smo Babble, web stranicu za roditelje.
Rufus Griscom: Now I think of our story as starting a few years earlier. AV: That's true.
Rufus Griscom: Sada, ja razmišljam o našoj priči koja počinje nekoliko godina ranije. (AV: To je istina.)
RG: You may remember, we fell head over heels in love.
RG: Možda se sjećaš, zaljubili smo se preko glave.
AV: We did.
AV: Jesmo.
RG: We were at the time running a very different kind of website. It was a website called Nerve.com, the tagline of which was "literate smut." It was in theory, and hopefully in practice, a smart online magazine about sex and culture.
RG: U to vrijeme smo vodili drugu vrstu web stranice. To je bila web stranica zvana Nerve.com, koja je bila -- udarna linija je bila "pismena pornografija." U teoriji je bila, a nadam se i u praksi, pametan online magazin o seksu i kulturi.
AV: That spawned a dating site. But you can understand the jokes that we get. Sex begets babies. You follow instructions on Nerve and you should end up on Babble, which we did. And we might launch a geriatric site as our third. We'll see.
AV: To je iznjedrilo stranicu za izlaske. Ali možete shvatiti šale koje primamo. Seks stvara djecu. Slijedite upute na Nerve-u i morali biste završiti na Babble-u, što i jesmo. I mogli bismo lansirati gerijatrijsku stranicu kao našu treću. Vidjet ćemo.
RG: But for us, the continuity between Nerve and Babble was not just the life stage thing, which is, of course, relevant, but it was really more about our desire to speak very honestly about subjects that people have difficulty speaking honestly about. It seems to us that when people start dissembling, people start lying about things, that's when it gets really interesting. That's a subject that we want to dive into. And we've been surprised to find, as young parents, that there are almost more taboos around parenting than there are around sex.
RG: Ali za nas, kontinuiranost između Nerve-a i Babble-a nije bila samo stvar životne faze, što je, naravno, važno, već je bilo to više o našoj želji da pričamo vrlo iskreno o predmetima o kojima je ljudima teško pričati na iskren način. Čini nam se da, kada se ljudi počnu rascjepkavati, ljudi počnu lagati o stvarima, i tada počinje biti zanimljivo, to je predmet u koji mi želimo zaroniti. I bili smo iznenađeni, kao mladi roditelji, kako ima skoro više tabua o roditeljstvu nego o seksu.
AV: It's true. So like we said, the early years were really wonderful, but they were also really difficult. And we feel like some of that difficulty was because of this false advertisement around parenting. (Laughter) We subscribed to a lot of magazines, did our homework, but really everywhere you look around, we were surrounded by images like this. And we went into parenting expecting our lives to look like this. The sun was always streaming in, and our children would never be crying. I would always be perfectly coiffed and well rested, and in fact, it was not like that at all.
AV: To je točno. Dakle, kao što smo rekli, rane godine su bile uistinu prekrasne, ali su bile uistinu i teške. I čini nam se da je dio te težine bio zbog ove lažne reklame o roditeljstvu. (Smijeh) Pretplatili smo se na mnogo časopisa, napravili našu zadaću, ali uistinu gdje god se okrenete, bili smo okruženi slikama poput ovih. I krenuli smo u roditeljstvo očekujući da će naši životi izgledati ovako. Sunce je uvijek dopiralo unutra, i naša djeca nikada ne bi plakala. Ja bih uvijek bila savršeno počešljana i odmorena. A zapravo, uopće nije bilo tako.
RG: When we lowered the glossy parenting magazine that we were looking at, with these beautiful images, and looked at the scene in our actual living room, it looked a little bit more like this. These are our three sons. And of course, they're not always crying and screaming, but with three boys, there's a decent probability that at least one of them will not be comporting himself exactly as he should.
RG: Kada smo spustili taj sjajeći časopis za roditelje u koji smo gledali, sa svim tim prekrasnim slikama, i pogledali stanje u našoj pravoj dnevnoj sobi, koje je izgledalo više nalik ovome. Ovo su naša tri sina. I naravno, ne plaču i vrište uvijek. Ali s tri dečka, postoji izgledna vjerojatnost da se bar jedan od njih neće uklopiti na način na koji bi se trebao.
AV: Yes, you can see where the disconnect was happening for us. We really felt like what we went in expecting had nothing to do with what we were actually experiencing, and so we decided we really wanted to give it to parents straight. We really wanted to let them understand what the realities of parenting were in an honest way.
AV: Da, možete vidjeti gdje je za nas dolazilo do prekida. Doista smo se osjećali kao da ono što smo očekivali nije imalo nikakve veze s onim što smo zapravo proživljavali. I tako smo odlučili da to želimo izravno prenijeti roditeljima. Doista smo željeli da razumiju stvarnosti roditeljstva na iskren način.
RG: So today, what we would love to do is share with you four parenting taboos. And of course, there are many more than four things you can't say about parenting, but we would like to share with you today four that are particularly relevant for us personally. So the first, taboo number one: you can't say you didn't fall in love with your baby in the very first minute. I remember vividly, sitting there in the hospital. We were in the process of giving birth to our first child.
RG: Dakle, danas, ono što bismo mi voljeli učiniti jest podijeliti s vama četiri roditeljska tabua. I naravno, postoji mnogo više od četiri stvari koje ne možete reći o roditeljstvu. Ali mi bismo željeli podijeliti s vama danas četiri koja su naročito važna za nas osobno. Dakle, prvi, tabu broj jedan: ne možeš reći da se nisi zaljubio u svoje dijete već prve minute. Sjećam se jako dobro, sjedeći tamo u bolnici. Bili smo u procesu rođenja našeg prvog djeteta.
AV: We, or I?
AV: Mi ili ja?
RG: I'm sorry. Misuse of the pronoun. Alisa was very generously in the process of giving birth to our first child -- (AV: Thank you.) -- and I was there with a catcher's mitt. And I was there with my arms open. The nurse was coming at me with this beautiful, beautiful child, and I remember, as she was approaching me, the voices of friends saying, "The moment they put the baby in your hands, you will feel a sense of love that will come over you that is [on] an order of magnitude more powerful than anything you've ever experienced in your entire life." So I was bracing myself for the moment. The baby was coming, and I was ready for this Mack truck of love to just knock me off my feet. And instead, when the baby was placed in my hands, it was an extraordinary moment. This picture is from literally a few seconds after the baby was placed in my hands and I brought him over. And you can see, our eyes were glistening. I was overwhelmed with love and affection for my wife, with deep, deep gratitude that we had what appeared to be a healthy child. And it was also, of course, surreal. I mean, I had to check the tags and make sure. I was incredulous, "Are you sure this is our child?" And this was all quite remarkable. But what I felt towards the child at that moment was deep affection, but nothing like what I feel for him now, five years later.
RG: Oprosti. Nepravilna uporaba zamjenice. Alisa je veoma velikodušno bila u procesu rođenja našeg prvog djeteta -- (AV: Hvala ti.) -- a ja sam bio tamo s rukavicom hvatača. I bio sam tamo raširenih ruku. Sestra mi je prilazila s tim prekrasnim, prekrasnim djetetom. I sjećam se, kako mi je prilazila, glasova prijatelja koji govore, "U trenutku kada stave dijete u tvoje ruke, osjetit ćeš osjećaj ljubavi koji će proći kroz tebe a koji ima jačinu veću od bilo čega što si iskusio u svom čitavom životu." Stoga sam se pripremao za taj trenutak. Dijete je dolazilo, i bio sam spreman za taj kamion pun ljubavi da me obori s nogu. I umjesto toga, kada je dijete stavljeno u moje naručje, bio je to izvanredan trenutak. Ovo je slika od doslovno nekoliko sekundi nakon što je dijete položeno u moje ruke i donio sam ga ovdje. I kao što možete vidjeti, naše oči su sjale. Bio sam obasut ljubavlju i privrženošću prema svojoj ženi, s dubokom, dubokom zahvalnošću što imamo, na prvi pogled, zdravo dijete. I bilo je ujedno, naravno, nestvarno. Mislim, morao sam provjeriti etikete i uvjeriti se. Bio sam nepovjerljiv, "Jesi li sigurna da je ovo naše dijete?" I to je sve bilo nevjerojatno. Ali ono što sam osjećao prema djetetu u tom trenutku je bila duboka privrženost, ali ništa poput onoga što sada osjećam prema njemu, pet godina kasnije.
And so we've done something here that is heretical. We have charted our love for our child over time. (Laughter) This, as you know, is an act of heresy. You're not allowed to chart love. The reason you're not allowed to chart love is because we think of love as a binary thing. You're either in love, or you're not in love. You love, or you don't love. And I think the reality is that love is a process, and I think the problem with thinking of love as something that's binary is that it causes us to be unduly concerned that love is fraudulent, or inadequate, or what have you. And I think I'm speaking obviously here to the father's experience. But I think a lot of men do go through this sense in the early months, maybe their first year, that their emotional response is inadequate in some fashion.
I tako smo napravili nešto ovdje što je hereza. Planirali smo našu ljubav za naše dijete kroz vrijeme. (Smijeh) To, kao što znate, je čin krivovjerja. Nije vam dopušteno planirati ljubav. Razlog zbog kojeg nam nije dozvoljeno planirati ljubav jest jer mislimo o ljubavi kao o binarnoj stvari. Ili ste zaljubljeni, ili niste zaljubljeni. Volite, ili ne volite. A mislim kako je u stvarnosti ljubav proces. I mislim kako je problem s razmišljanjem o ljubavi kao nešto što je binarno jest da nam uzrokuje da budemo neopravdano zabrinuti kako je ljubav lažljiva, ili neprikladna, ili što god želite. I mislim kako je očito da pričam ovdje o iskustvu oca. Ali mislim kako mnogo ljudi prolazi kroz taj osjećaj u ranim mjesecima, možda u njihovoj prvoj godini, kako njihov emocionalni odgovor nije prikladan.
AV: Well, I'm glad Rufus is bringing this up, because you can notice where he dips in the first years where I think I was doing most of the work. But we like to joke, in the first few months of all of our children's lives, this is Uncle Rufus. (Laughter)
AV: Pa, drago mi je da Rufus to spominje, jer možete primjetiti kako se spušta u prvim godinama gdje mislim kako sam ja radila većinu posla. Ali mi se volimo šaliti, u prvim mjesecima života sve naše djece, ovo je Ujak Rufus. (Smijeh)
RG: I'm a very affectionate uncle, very affectionate uncle.
RG: Ja sam veoma privržen ujak, veoma privržen ujak.
AV: Yes, and I often joke with Rufus when he comes home that I'm not sure he would actually be able to find our child in a line-up amongst other babies. So I actually threw a pop quiz here onto Rufus.
AV: Da, i često se šalim s Rufusom kada dođe doma kako nisam sigurna da bi bio sposoban pronaći naše dijete u liniji među drugom djecom. Stoga sam zapravo ubacila brzi kviz ovdje za Rufusa.
RG: Uh oh.
RG: Uh oh.
AV: I don't want to embarrass him too much. But I am going to give him three seconds.
AV: Ne želim ga previše osramotiti ovdje. Ali dat ću mu tri sekunde.
RG: That is not fair. This is a trick question. He's not up there, is he?
RG: To nije pošteno. To je trik pitanje. On nije ovdje gore, je li?
AV: Our eight-week-old son is somewhere in here, and I want to see if Rufus can actually quickly identify him.
AV: Naš osmotjedni sin je negdje ovdje. I želim vidjeti može li ga Rufus zapravo brzo prepoznati.
RG: The far left. AV: No!
RG: Onaj krajnje lijevo. (AV: Ne!)
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
RG: Cruel.
RG: Okrutno.
AV: Nothing more to be said.
AV: Ništa više ne treba reći.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
I'll move on to taboo number two. You can't talk about how lonely having a baby can be. I enjoyed being pregnant. I loved it. I felt incredibly connected to the community around me. I felt like everyone was participating in my pregnancy, all around me, tracking it down till the actual due-date. I felt like I was a vessel of the future of humanity. That continued into the the hospital. It was really exhilarating. I was shower with gifts and flowers and visitors. It was a really wonderful experience, but when I got home, I suddenly felt very disconnected and suddenly shut in and shut out, and I was really surprised by those feelings. I did expect it to be difficult, have sleepless nights, constant feedings, but I did not expect the feelings of isolation and loneliness that I experienced, and I was really surprised that no one had talked to me, that I was going to be feeling this way. And I called my sister whom I'm very close to -- and had three children -- and I asked her, "Why didn't you tell me I was going to be feeling this way, that I was going to have these -- feeling incredibly isolated?" And she said -- I'll never forget -- "It's just not something you want to say to a mother that's having a baby for the first time."
Prijeći ću na tabu broj dva. Ne možete pričato o tome kako usamljeno može biti imati dijete. Uživala sam u trudnoći; voljela sam je. Osjećala sam se nevjerojatno povezano sa zajednicom oko mene. Osjećala sam se kao da su svi sudjelovali u mojoj trudnoći, svuda oko mene, prateći me sve do datuma kada sam trebala roditi. Osjećala sam se poput žile za budućnost čovječanstva. To se nastavilo i u bolnici; bilo je uistinu stimulirajuće. Bila sam obasuta poklonima, cvjećem i posjetiteljima. Bilo je to doista prekrasno iskustvo. Ali kada sam se vratila kući, iznenada sam se osjetila veoma nepovezano i iznenada zatvoreno i željna vrištanja. I bila sam uistinu iznenađena tim osjećajima. Očekivala sam da će biti teško, da će biti neprospavanih noći, neprekidnog hranjenja, ali nisam očekivala osjećaje izolacije i usamljenosti koje sam iskusila. I bila sam doista iznenađena kako nitko nije pričao samnom, kako ću se osjećati tako. I nazvala sam svoju sestru s kojom sam vrlo bliska -- i koja ima troje djece -- i pitala sam je, "Zašto mi nisi rekla da ću se osjećati ovako, da ću imati te -- osjećaje nevjerojatne izoliranosti?" A ona je rekla -- nikad neću zaboraviti -- "To jednostavno nije nešto što želiš reći majci koja ima dijete po prvi put."
RG: And of course, we think it's precisely what you really should be saying to mothers who have kids for the first time. And that this, of course, one of the themes for us is that we think that candor and brutal honesty is critical to us collectively being great parents. And it's hard not to think that part of what leads to this sense of isolation is our modern world. So Alisa's experience is not isolated. So your 58 percent of mothers surveyed report feelings of loneliness. Of those, 67 percent are most lonely when their kids are zero to five -- probably really zero to two. In the process of preparing this, we looked at how some other cultures around the world deal with this period of time, because here in the Western world, less than 50 percent of us live near our family members, which I think is part of why this is such a tough period. So to take one example among many: in Southern India there's a practice known as jholabhari, in which the pregnant woman, when she's seven or eight months pregnant, moves in with her mother and goes through a series of rituals and ceremonies, give birth and returns home to her nuclear family several months after the child is born. And this is one of many ways that we think other cultures offset this kind of lonely period.
RG: I naravno, mi mislimo da je upravo to ono što biste trebali govoriti majkama koje imaju djecu po prvi puta. I da to, naravno, jedna od tema za nas jest da mislimo da otvorenost i brutalna iskrenost je kolektivno kritična za nas da budemo odlični roditelji. I teško je ne misliti da dio toga što vodi tom osjećaju izoliranosti jest naš moderni svijet. Dakle, Alisino iskustvo nije izolirano. Dakle, vaših 58 posto majki nad kojima je provedeno istraživanje prijavljuje osjećaje samoće. Od njih, 67 posto je uglavnom usamljeno kada su njihova djeca stara od nula do pet -- vjerojatno nula do dvije godine. U procesu pripreme za to, gledali smo kako se neke druge kulture po svijetu nose s tim vremenskim periodom, jer ovdje u zapadnom svijetu, manje od 50 posto nas živi blizu naših članova obitelji, zbog čega je, po mom mišljenju, ovo tako težak period. Dakle, da uzmemo jedan primjer između mnogih: u južnoj Indiji postoji običaj zvan jholabihari, u kojem se trudnice, u svom sedmom ili osmom mjesecu trudnoće, presele kod svoje majke i prolaze kroz nizove rituala i ceremonija, rađaju i vraćaju se kući, svojoj nuklearnoj obitelji nekoliko mjeseci nakon što je dijete rođeno. A to je jedan od mnogo načina na koji, mi mislimo, druge kulture zasjenjuju tu vrstu perioda usamljenosti.
AV: So taboo number three: you can't talk about your miscarriage -- but today I'll talk about mine. So after we had Declan, we kind of recalibrated our expectations. We thought we actually could go through this again and thought we knew what we would be up against. And we were grateful that I was able to get pregnant, and I soon learned that we were having a boy, and then when I was five months, we learned that we had lost our child. This is actually the last little image we have of him. And it was obviously a very difficult time -- really painful. As I was working through that mourning process, I was amazed that I didn't want to see anybody. I really wanted to crawl into a hole, and I didn't really know how I was going to work my way back into my surrounding community. And I realize, I think, the way I was feeling that way, is on a really deep gut level, I was feeling a lot of shame and embarrassed, frankly, that, in some respects, I had failed at delivering what I'm genetically engineered to do. And of course, it made me question, if I wasn't able to have another child, what would that mean for my marriage, and just me as a woman. So it was a very difficult time. As I started working through it more, I started climbing out of that hole and talking with other people. I was really amazed by all the stories that started flooding in. People I interacted with daily, worked with, was friends with, family members that I had known a long time, had never shared with me their own stories. And I just remember feeling all these stories came out of the woodwork, and I felt like I happened upon this secret society of women that I now was a part of, which was reassuring and also really concerning. And I think, miscarriage is an invisible loss. There's not really a lot of community support around it. There's really no ceremony, rituals, or rites. And I think, with a death, you have a funeral, you celebrate the life, and there's a lot of community support, and it's something women don't have with miscarriage.
AV: Dakle, tabu broj tri: ne možete pričati o svom pobačaju -- ali danas ću pričati o svom. Dakle, nakon što smo imali Declana, na neki smo način rekalibrirali naša očekivanja. Mislimo smo zapravo da možemo proći kroz to ponovno i mislili smo kako znamo s čim ćemo se nositi. I bili smo zahvalni što sam ja ponovno zatrudnjela. I ubrzo sam saznala kako ćemo dobiti dječaka. I zatim kada sam bila trudna pet mjeseci, saznali smo kako smo izgubili naše dijete. Ovo je zapravo posljednja slika njega koju imamo. I to je bilo očito jako teško vrijeme -- doista bolno. Kako sam prolazila kroz taj proces žalovanja, bila sam očarana kako nisam htjela nikoga vidjeti. Doista sam se htjela sakriti u rupu. A doista sam znala kako ću se ponovno uklopiti u zajednicu koja me okružuje. I shvaćam, mislim, način na koji sam se osjećala, je doista na razini instinkta, osjećala sam mnogo srama -- posramljena, iskreno -- da, sam u nekim pogledima, doživjela neuspjeh proizvesti ono za što sam genetski predispozirana proizvesti. I naravno, to me navelo da se zapitam, ukoliko neću biti sposobna imati još jedno dijete, što će to značiti za moj brak, i samo za mene kao ženu. Dakle, to je bilo veoma teško vrijeme. Kako sam počela raditi više kroz to, počela sam puzati van iz te rupe i pričati s drugim ljudima. Bila sam doista očarana svim pričama koje su počele pritjecati. Ljudi s kojima sam dnevno komunicirala, s kojima sam radila, kojima sam bila prijatelj, članovi obitelji koje sam poznavala dugo vremena, nikad nisu samnom podijelili svoje vlastite priče. I sjećam se kako su sve te priče potekle iz drvenarije. i osjećala sam se kao da sam naišla na to tajno društvo žena čiji sam dio sada bila, što je bilo uvjeravajuće ali ujedno i zaista zabrinjavajuće. I mislim, pobačaj je nevidljiv gubitak. Ne postoji mnogo podrške zajednice oko toga. Nema zapravo svečanosti, rituala ili obreda. I mislim, sa smrću, imate pogreb, slavite život, i postoji mnogo podrške zajednice. I to je nešto što žene ne dobivaju s pobačajem.
RG: Which is too bad because, of course, it's a very common and very traumatic experience. Fifteen to 20 percent of all pregnancies result in miscarriage, and I find this astounding. In a survey, 74 percent of women said that miscarriage, they felt, was partly their fault, which is awful. And astoundingly, 22 percent said they would hide a miscarriage from their spouse.
RG: Što je jako loše jer, naravno, to je jako često i jako traumatično iskustvo. 15 do 20 posto svih trudnoća rezultira pobačajem. I to mi se doima zapanjujućim. U istraživanju, 74 posto žena je reklo kako je pobačaj, prema njihovim osjećajima, dio njihove krivice, što je užasno. I zapanjujuće, 22 posto je reklo kako bi sakrilo pobačaj od svog supružnika.
So taboo number four: you can't say that your average happiness has declined since having a child. The party line is that every single aspect of my life has just gotten dramatically better ever since I participated in the miracle that is childbirth and family. I'll never forget, I remember vividly to this day, our first son, Declan, was nine months old, and I was sitting there on the couch, and I was reading Daniel Gilbert's wonderful book, "Stumbling on Happiness." And I got about two-thirds of the way through, and there was a chart on the right-hand side -- on the right-hand page -- that we've labeled here "The Most Terrifying Chart Imaginable for a New Parent." This chart is comprised of four completely independent studies. Basically, there's this precipitous drop of marital satisfaction, which is closely aligned, we all know, with broader happiness, that doesn't rise again until your first child goes to college. So I'm sitting here looking at the next two decades of my life, this chasm of happiness that we're driving our proverbial convertible straight into. We were despondent.
Dakle, tabu broj četiri: ne možete reći kako se vaša prosječna sreća smanjila otkad ste dobili dijete. Poanta je da je svaki pojedini aspekt mog života postao drastično bolji otkad sam sudjelovao u čudu koje je rođenje djeteta i obitelji. Nikada neću zaboraviti, sjećam se vrlo dobro sve do danas, naš prvi sin, Declan, je bio star devet mjeseci, i sjedio sam tamo na kauču, i čitao sam prekrasnu knjigu Daniela Gilberta, "Spoticanje na sreću." I prošao sam dvije trećine knjige, i s desne strane je bio grafikon -- s desne strane -- koji smo označili ovdje "Najstrašniji zamislivi grafikon za novog roditelja." Ovaj grafikon sadrži četiri potpuno neovisna istraživanja. U osnovi, tu je taj strmoglavi pad bračnog zadovoljstva, koji je usko povezan, svi znamo, sa širom srećom, koji ne raste ponovno sve dok vaše prvo dijete ne ode na studij. Dakle, tako ja sjedim ovdje i promatram iduća dva desetljeća svog života, taj ponor sreće u koji ravno vozimo s našim metaforičkim kabrioletom. Bili smo utučeni.
AV: So you can imagine, I mean again, the first few months were difficult, but we'd come out of it, and were really shocked to see this study. So we really wanted to take a deeper look at it in hopes that we would find a silver lining.
AV: Dakle, možete zamisliti, mislim ponovno, prvih nekoliko mjeseci je bilo teško, ali izvukli bi se iz toga, i doista smo bili šokirani kada smo vidjeli to istraživanje. Stoga smo doista htjeli podrobnije to pogledati u nadi da ćemo pronaći srebrnu podstavu.
RG: And that's when it's great to be running a website for parents, because we got this incredible reporter to go and interview all the scientists who conducted these four studies. We said, something is wrong here. There's something missing from these studies. It can't possibly be that bad. So Liz Mitchell did a wonderful job with this piece, and she interviewed four scientists, and she also interviewed Daniel Gilbert, and we did indeed find a silver lining. So this is our guess as to what this baseline of average happiness arguably looks like throughout life. Average happiness is, of course, inadequate, because it doesn't speak to the moment-by-moment experience, and so this is what we think it looks like when you layer in moment-to-moment experience. And so we all remember as children, the tiniest little thing -- and we see it on the faces of our children -- the teeniest little thing can just rocket them to these heights of just utter adulation, and then the next teeniest little thing can cause them just to plummet to the depths of despair. And it's just extraordinary to watch, and we remember it ourselves. And then, of course, as you get older, it's almost like age is a form of lithium.
RG: I tada je super kada vodite web stranicu za roditelje, jer smo dobili tu nevjerojatnu reporterku koja je otišla i intervjuirala sve znanstvenike koji su proveli ta četiri istraživanja. Rekli smo, nešto ovdje nije u redu. Nešto nedostaje iz tih istraživanja. Nije moguće da je tako loše. Dakle, Liz Mitchell je napravila prekrasan posao s tim radom. I intervjuirala je četiri znanstvenika, i ujedno je intervjuirala je Daniela Gilberta. I doista smo pronašli srebrnu podstavu. Dakle, ovo je naša pretpostavka kako osnova te prosječne sreće vjerojatno izgleda kroz život. Prosječna sreća je, naravno, neprikladna, jer ne govori o iskustvu trenutka. I mislimo da izgleda ovako kada stavite sloj iskustva pojedinog trenutka. I svi se sjećamo kao djeca, najmanjih malih stvari -- i vidimo ih na licima naše djece -- najmanja mala stvar ih može lansirati u te visine jednostavnog laskanja, a zatim ih iduća najmanja mala stvar može odvesti u dubine očaja. I to je jednostavno nevjerojatno promatrati, i sjećamo ih se i sami. I zatim, naravno, kako starite, čini se kao da je dob jedna vrsta litija.
As you get older, you become more stable. And part of what happens, I think, in your '20s and '30s, is you start to learn to hedge your happiness. You start to realize that "Hey, I could go to this live music event and have an utterly transforming experience that will cover my entire body with goosebumps, but it's more likely that I'll feel claustrophobic and I won't be able to get a beer. So I'm not going to go. I've got a good stereo at home. So, I'm not going to go." So your average happiness goes up, but you lose those transcendent moments.
Kako postajete stariji, tako postajete stabilniji. I dio toga što se događa, mislim, u vašim 20-im i 30-im, jest da počnete ograđivati vašu sreću. Počinjete shvaćati da "Hej, mogao bih ići na taj koncert i imati potpuno transformirajuće iskustvo od kojeg će se cijelo moje tijelo naježiti, ali više je izgledno da ću se osjećati klaustrofobično i neću moći dobiti pivu. Stoga neću ići. Imam dobar stereo kod kuće. Stoga, neću ići." Dakle, vaša prosječna sreća raste, ali izgubite te uzvišene trenutke.
AV: Yeah, and then you have your first child, and then you really resubmit yourself to these highs and lows -- the highs being the first steps, the first smile, your child reading to you for the first time -- the lows being, our house, any time from six to seven every night. But you realize you resubmit yourself to losing control in a really wonderful way, which we think provides a lot of meaning to our lives and is quite gratifying.
AV: Da, i zatim dobijete svoje prvo dijete. I zatim ponovno predajete sebe tim usponima i padovima -- usponi koji su prvi koraci, prvi osmijeh, kada vaše dijete čita po prvi puta -- padovi su naša kuća bilo kada između šest i sedam svake večeri. Ali shvatite da predajete sebe gubitku kontrole na uistinu prekrasan način, koji, mi mislimo, pruža mnogo smisla našim životima i prilično je zahvalan.
RG: And so in effect, we trade average happiness. We trade the sort of security and safety of a certain level of contentment for these transcendent moments. So where does that leave the two of us as a family with our three little boys in the thick of all this? There's another factor in our case. We have violated yet another taboo in our own lives, and this is a bonus taboo.
RG: I tako kao posljedicu, mi trgujemo prosječnom srećom. Trgujemo tom vrstom sigurnosti određene razine zadovoljstva za te uzvišene trenutke. Dakle, gdje to ostavlja nas dvoje u obitelji s tri mala dječaka u svemu ovome? Postoji još jedan čimbenik u našem slučaju. Prekršili smo još jedan tabu u našim životima. A to je bonus tabu.
AV: A quick bonus taboo for you, that we should not be working together, especially with three children -- and we are.
AV: Brzi bonus tabu za vas, kako ne bismo smjeli raditi zajedno, naročito s troje djece -- a mi radimo.
RG: And we had reservations about this on the front end. Everybody knows, you should absolutely not work with your spouse. In fact, when we first went out to raise money to start Babble, the venture capitalists said, "We categorically don't invest in companies founded by husbands and wives, because there's an extra point of failure. It's a bad idea. Don't do it." And we obviously went forward. We did. We raised the money, and we're thrilled that we did, because in this phase of one's life, the incredibly scarce resource is time. And if you're really passionate about what you do every day -- which we are -- and you're also passionate about your relationship, this is the only way we know how to do it. And so the final question that we would ask is: can we collectively bend that happiness chart upwards? It's great that we have these transcendent moments of joy, but they're sometimes pretty quick. And so how about that average baseline of happiness? Can we move that up a little bit?
RG: I bili smo ispočetka malo suzdržani oko toga. Svi znaju, apsolutno ne bi smio raditi sa svojim suprožnikom. Zapravo, kada smo prvi put otišli prikupljat novac kako bi započeli Babble, ulagači su rekli, "Mi kategorično ne ulažemo u kompanije koje su osnovane od muževa i žena, jer postoji dodatni preduvjet neuspjeha. To je loša ideja. Nemojte to činiti." I mi smo očito krenuli s tim. Jesmo. Prikupili smo novac, i uzbuđeni smo što jesmo, jer u toj fazi života, nevjerojatno oskudan resurs je vrijeme. A ako ste doista strastveni oko toga što radite svaki dan -- što mi jesmo -- i ujedno ste strastveni o svojoj vezi, to je jedini način na koji znamo raditi. I stoga je posljednje pitanje koje bismo postavili: možemo li zajedno iskriviti taj grafikon sreće prema gore? Odlično je to što imamo te uzvišene trenutke veselja, ali oni su nekad prilično brzi. A što je s tom prosječnom osnovom sreće? Možemo li to malo pomaknuti gore?
AV: And we kind of feel that the happiness gap, which we talked about, is really the result of walking into parenting -- and really any long-term partnership for that matter -- with the wrong expectations. And if you have the right expectations and expectation management, we feel like it's going to be a pretty gratifying experience.
AV: I pomalo osjećamo da taj jaz sreće, o kojem smo pričali, je zapravo rezultat ulaska u roditeljstvo -- i zapravo svako dugoročno partnerstvo za tu svrhu -- s krivim očekivanjima. A ako imate prava očekivanja i upravljanje očekivanjima, osjećamo kako će to biti prilično zahvalno iskustvo.
RG: And so this is what -- And we think that a lot of parents, when you get in there -- in our case anyway -- you pack your bags for a trip to Europe, and you're really excited to go. Get out of the airplane, it turns out you're trekking in Nepal. And trekking in Nepal is an extraordinary experience, particularly if you pack your bags properly and you know what you're getting in for and you're psyched. So the point of all this for us today is not just hopefully honesty for the sake of honesty, but a hope that by being more honest and candid about these experiences, that we can all collectively bend that happiness baseline up a little bit.
RG: I dakle, to je ono što -- I mislimo kako mnogi roditelji, kada uđete u to -- bar u našem slučaju -- spakirate svoje torbe za put u Europu, i doista ste uzbuđeni što idete. Izađete iz aviona, ispostavi se da planinarite u Nepalu. A planinarenje u Nepalu je nevjerojatno iskustvo, naročito ako spakirate svoje torbe prikladno i znate što vas čeka i psihički ste spremni. Poanta svega toga za nas danas nije samo iskrenost radi iskrenosti, već nada da ako budemo iskreniji i otvoreniji o tim iskustvima, tada svi zajedno možemo pomaknuti tu osnovu sreće malo prema gore.
RG + AV: Thank you.
RG + AV: Hvala vam.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)