[On April 3, 2016 we saw the largest data leak in history.] [The Panama Papers exposed rich and powerful people] [hiding vast amounts of money in offshore accounts.] [What does this mean?] [We called Robert Palmer of Global Witness to explain.]
[Bili smo svedoci, 3. aprila 2016, najvećeg curenja podataka u istoriji.] [Panamski papiri su razotkrili bogate i moćne ljude] [kako kriju ogromne količine novca na ofšor računima.] [Šta ovo znači?] [Pozvali smo Roberta Palmera iz Global Vitnesa da nam objasni.]
This week, there have been a whole slew and deluge of stories coming out from the leak of 11 million documents from a Panamanian-based law firm called Mossack Fonseca. The release of these papers from Panama lifts the veil on a tiny piece of the secretive offshore world. We get an insight into how clients and banks and lawyers go to companies like Mossack Fonseca and say, "OK, we want an anonymous company, can you give us one?" So you actually get to see the emails, you get to see the exchanges of messages, you get to see the mechanics of how this works, how this operates.
Ove nedelje smo imali tmuštu i tmu priča koje su stizale iz curenja 11 miliona dokumenata iz pravne firme sa sedištem u Panami koja se zove Mosak Fonseka. Objavljivanje ovih papira iz Paname podiže veo sa sićušnog dela tajanstvenog sveta ofšora. Imamo uvid u to kako klijenti i banke i advokati odlaze u firme, poput Mosak Fonseke, i kažu: "U redu, želimo anonimnu firmu, možete li nam je osnovati?" Pa, zapravo možete da vidite imejlove, možete da vidite razmenu poruka, možete da vidite mehaniku toga kako ovo funkcioniše, kako se ovo izvodi.
Now, this has already started to have pretty immediate repercussions. The Prime Minister of Iceland has resigned. We've also had news that an ally of the brutal Syrian dictator Bashar Al-Assad has also got offshore companies. There's been allegations of a $2 billion money trail that leads back to President Vladimir Putin of Russia via his close childhood friend, who happens to be a top cellist. And there will be a lot of rich individuals out there and others who will be nervous about the next set of stories and the next set of leaked documents.
Sad, ovo je već počelo da ima skoro trenutne posledice. Premijer Islanda je dao ostavku. Takođe smo čuli vesti da saveznik brutalnog sirijskog diktatora, Bašara el Asada, takođe ima ofšor firme. Postoje navodi traga od dve milijarde dolara koji vodi do predsednika Rusije Vladimira Putina, preko njegovog bliskog prijatelja iz detinjstva, koji je slučajno vrhunski čelista. A biće tu još mnogo bogatih pojedinaca i drugih koji će da budu nervozni zbog sledećeg skupa priča, i narednog skupa procurelih podataka.
Now, this sounds like the plot of a spy thriller or a John Grisham novel. It seems very distant from you, me, ordinary people. Why should we care about this? But the truth is that if rich and powerful individuals are able to keep their money offshore and not pay the taxes that they should, it means that there is less money for vital public services like healthcare, education, roads. And that affects all of us.
Sad, ovo zvuči poput zapleta iz špijunskog trilera ili romana Džona Grišama. Čini se veoma dalekim od vas, mene, običnih ljudi. Zašto bi nas bilo briga za ovo? Ali istina je da ako su bogati i moćni pojedinci u stanju da čuvaju svoj novac u ofšorima i ne plaćaju porez koji bi trebalo da plaćaju, to znači da imamo manje novca za vitalne javne usluge, poput zdravstva, obrazovanja, puteva. A to nas sve pogađa.
Now, for my organization Global Witness, this exposé has been phenomenal. We have the world's media and political leaders talking about how individuals can use offshore secrecy to hide and disguise their assets -- something we have been talking about and exposing for a decade.
Sad, za moju organizaciju, Global Vitnes, ovo razotkrivanje je bilo fenomenalno. Svetski mediji i političke vođe su počele da pričaju o tome kako pojedinci mogu da koriste ofšor poverljivost kako bi prikrili svoju imovinu - nešto o čemu govorimo i što razotkrivamo već deceniju.
Now, I think a lot of people find this entire world baffling and confusing, and hard to understand how this sort of offshore world works. I like to think of it a bit like a Russian doll. So you can have one company stacked inside another company, stacked inside another company, making it almost impossible to really understand who is behind these structures. It can be very difficult for law enforcement or tax authorities, journalists, civil society to really understand what's going on.
Sad, mislim da mnogi ljudi pronalaze čitav ovaj svet zbunjujućim i konfuznim i teško im je da razumeju kako ovaj svet ofšora funkcioniše. Volim da razmišljam o njemu pomalo kao o babuški. Pa, možete da imate jednu firmu upakovanu unutar druge firme, upakovanu unutar treće firme, zbog čega je skoro nemoguće zaista razumeti ko stoji iza ovih struktura. Može da bude veoma teško za policiju ili poreske vlasti, novinare, građansko društvo da zaista shvate o čemu se radi.
I also think it's interesting that there's been less coverage of this issue in the United States. And that's perhaps because some prominent US people just haven't figured in this exposé, in this scandal. Now, that's not because there are no rich Americans who are stashing their assets offshore. It's just because of the way in which offshore works, Mossack Fonseca has fewer American clients. I think if we saw leaks from the Cayman Islands or even from Delaware or Wyoming or Nevada, you would see many more cases and examples linking back to Americans.
Takođe smatram zanimljivim to što se ovim pitanjem manje bave u Sjedinjenim Državama. A to je možda zato što neki ugledni ljudi iz SAD-a prosto nisu otkriveni u ovom ekspozeu, u ovom skandalu. Sad, to nije zato što nema bogatih Amerikanaca koji gomilaju svoju imovinu u ofšorima. Već je to zbog načina na koji ofšor funkcioniše. Mosak Fonseka ima manje američkih klijenata. Mislim, da smo videli curenja sa Kajmanskih ostrva ili čak iz Delavera ili Vajominga ili Nevade, videli biste mnogo više slučajeva i primera koji vode do Amerikanaca.
In fact, in a number of US states you need less information, you need to provide less information to get a company than you do to get a library card. That sort of secrecy in America has allowed employees of school districts to rip off schoolchildren. It has allowed scammers to rip off vulnerable investors. This is the sort of behavior that affects all of us.
Zapravo, u brojnim državama SAD-a potrebno vam je manje informacija, potrebno vam je manje informacija da pokrenete firmu nego da dobijete člansku kartu u biblioteci. Takav vid poverljivosti u Americi je omogućio zaposlenima u školskim okruzima da opljačkaju đake. Omogućio je prevarantima da opljačkaju ranjive investitore. Ovakvo ponašanje pogađa sve nas.
Now, at Global Witness, we wanted to see what this actually looked like in practice. How does this actually work? So what we did is we sent in an undercover investigator to 13 Manhattan law firms. Our investigator posed as an African minister who wanted to move suspect funds into the United States to buy a house, a yacht, a jet. Now, what was truly shocking was that all but one of those lawyers provided our investigator with suggestions on how to move those suspect funds. These were all preliminary meetings, and none of the lawyers took us on as a client and of course no money moved hands, but it really shows the problem with the system.
Sad, u Global Vitnesu smo želeli da vidimo kako ovo izgleda u praksi. Kako ovo stvarno funkcioniše? Pa smo uradili sledeće: poslali smo istraživača u tajnosti u 13 pravnih firmi na Menhetnu. Naš istraživač se predstavljao kao afrički ministar koji želi da prebaci sumnjive fondove u Sjedinjene Države, kako bi kupio kuću, jahtu, avion. Sad, istinski šokantno je bilo da su svi osim jednog advokata pružili našem istraživaču sugestije kako da prebaci sumnjive fondove. Ovo su sve bili preliminarni sastanci i nijedan advokat nas nije preuzeo za klijenta i, naravno, nikakav novac nije razmenjen, ali ovo uistinu pokazuje problem sistema.
It's also important to not just think about this as individual cases. This is not just about an individual lawyer who's spoken to our undercover investigator and provided suggestions. It's not just about a particular senior politician who's been caught up in a scandal. This is about how a system works, that entrenches corruption, tax evasion, poverty and instability. And in order to tackle this, we need to change the game. We need to change the rules of the game to make this sort of behavior harder.
Takođe je važno da ne razmišljamo o ovome kao o pojedinačnim slučajevima. Ne radi se prosto o pojedinačnom advokatu, koji je razgovarao s našim prikrivenim istraživačem i pružio sugestije. Ne radi se samo o određenom višem zvaničniku koji je umešan u skandal. Radi se o tome kako sistem funkcioniše, tako što učvršćuje korupciju, utaju poreza, siromaštvo i nestabilnost. A kako bismo se bavili ovim, moramo da promenimo igru. Moramo da promenimo pravila igre kako bismo otežali ovakvo ponašanje.
This may seem like doom and gloom, like there's nothing we can do about it, like nothing has ever changed, like there will always be rich and powerful individuals. But as a natural optimist, I do see that we are starting to get some change.
Ovo se može učiniti kao beznadežna situacija, nešto povodom čega ne možemo bilo šta, kao da se ništa nikad ne menja, kao da će uvek da postoje bogati i moćni pojedinci. Ali kao optimista po prirodi, vidim da počinjemo da dobijamo neke promene.
Over the last couple of years, we've seen a real push towards greater transparency when it comes to company ownership. This issue was put on the political agenda by the UK Prime Minister David Cameron at a big G8 Summit that was held in Northern Ireland in 2013. And since then, the European Union is going to be creating central registers at a national level of who really owns and controls companies across Europe.
U proteklih nekoliko godina, videli smo istinski pomak ka većoj transparentnosti, kad se radi o vlasništvu firmi. Ovo pitanje je na politički dnevni red stavio premijer Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva, Dejvid Kameron, na velikom samitu G8 koji je održan u Severnoj Irskoj 2013. A od tada, Evropska Unija će da osniva centralne registre na nacionalnom nivou o tome ko zaista poseduje i upravlja firmama širom Evrope.
One of the things that is sad is that, actually, the US is lagging behind. There's bipartisan legislation that had been introduced in the House and the Senate, but it isn't making as much progress as we'd like to see. So we'd really want to see the Panama leaks, this huge peek into the offshore world, be used as a way of opening up in the US and around the world.
Jedna od tužnih stvari je da zapravo SAD zaostaju. Postoji dvostranački zakon koji je predstavljen u Predstavničkom domu i u Senatu, ali ne ostvaruje napredak kakav bismo želeli da vidimo. Pa bismo zaista voleli da vidimo kako se curenje iz Paname, ovo veliko virenje u svet ofšora, koristi kao način za pokretanje diskusije u SAD-u i širom sveta.
For us at Global Witness, this is a moment for change. We need ordinary people to get angry at the way in which people can hide their identity behind secret companies. We need business leaders to stand up and say, "Secrecy like this is not good for business." We need political leaders to recognize the problem, and to commit to changing the law to open up this sort of secrecy.
Za nas u Global Vitnesu, ovo je prekretnički momenat. Potrebno nam je da se obični ljudi naljute na način na koji ljudi mogu da sakriju svoje identitete iza tajnih firmi. Potrebno nam je da se poslovne vođe usprotive i kažu: "Ovakva poverljivost nije dobra za poslovanje." Potrebno nam je da političke vođe prepoznaju problem i da se obavežu da će da promene zakon i da razotkriju ovaj vid poverljivosti.
Together, we can end the secrecy that is currently allowing tax evasion, corruption, money laundering to flourish.
Zajedno možemo da okončamo poverljivost koja trenutno omogućuje utaji poreza, korupciji, pranju novca da cvetaju.