Other people. Everyone is interested in other people. Everyone has relationships with other people, and they're interested in these relationships for a variety of reasons. Good relationships, bad relationships, annoying relationships, agnostic relationships, and what I'm going to do is focus on the central piece of an interaction that goes on in a relationship. So I'm going to take as inspiration the fact that we're all interested in interacting with other people, I'm going to completely strip it of all its complicating features, and I'm going to turn that object, that simplified object, into a scientific probe, and provide the early stages, embryonic stages of new insights into what happens in two brains while they simultaneously interact.
Drugi ljudi. Svi su zainteresovani za druge ljude. Svi imaju veze sa drugim ljudima i zanimaju ih ove veze iz raznih razloga. Dobre veze, loše veze, dosadne veze, sumnjičave veze, a ja ću se fokusirati na centralni deo interakcije koji se odvija u vezama. Dakle, ja ću kao inspiraciju uzeti činjenicu da nas sve zanima interakcija sa drugim ljudima i tu ideju ću u potpunosti osloboditi svih komplikovanih detalja i pretvoriću taj pojednostavljeni objekat u naučno istraživanje i doći ću do prvih faza, osnovnih faza novih otkrića o tome šta se dešava unutar dva mozga u toku simultane interakcije.
But before I do that, let me tell you a couple of things that made this possible. The first is we can now eavesdrop safely on healthy brain activity. Without needles and radioactivity, without any kind of clinical reason, we can go down the street and record from your friends' and neighbors' brains while they do a variety of cognitive tasks, and we use a method called functional magnetic resonance imaging. You've probably all read about it or heard about in some incarnation. Let me give you a two-sentence version of it. So we've all heard of MRIs. MRIs use magnetic fields and radio waves and they take snapshots of your brain or your knee or your stomach, grayscale images that are frozen in time. In the 1990s, it was discovered you could use the same machines in a different mode, and in that mode, you could make microscopic blood flow movies from hundreds of thousands of sites independently in the brain. Okay, so what? In fact, the so what is, in the brain, changes in neural activity, the things that make your brain work, the things that make your software work in your brain, are tightly correlated with changes in blood flow. You make a blood flow movie, you have an independent proxy of brain activity.
Ali pre nego što to uradim, govoriću vam o par stvari koje su to omogućile. Prva je ta da sada možemo bezbedno da osluškujemo aktivnosti zdravog mozga. Bez igala ili radioaktivnosti, bez ikakvog kliničkog razloga, možemo ići niz ulicu i snimati mozgove vaših prijatelja i suseda dok obavljaju razne kognitivne zadatke i pri tome koristimo metodu koja se naziva funkcionalno oslikavanje magnetnom rezonancijom. Svi ste verovatno čitali o tome ili ste čuli o tome u nekom obliku. Dozvolite da vam u dve rečenice objasnim o čemu se radi. Svi smo čuli za MR (magnetna rezonancija). Tokom nje se koriste magnetna polja i radio talasi i uzimaju se snimci vašeg mozga ili vašeg kolena, vašeg stomaka, slike u sivim tonovima koje su zamrznute u vremenu. Tokom 1990-ih otkriveno je da ove mašine mogu da se koriste i na drugi način i to tako da možete da uzmete mikroskopske snimke krvotoka sa stotine hiljada mesta u mozgu. Okej, pa šta? Zapravo, promene u nervnoj aktivnosti mozga, ono što pokreće vaš mozak, ono što čini da softver u vašem mozgu radi, usko je povezano sa promenama u krvotoku. Ako napravite snimak krvotoka, imaćete nezavistan prikaz moždane aktivnosti.
This has literally revolutionized cognitive science. Take any cognitive domain you want, memory, motor planning, thinking about your mother-in-law, getting angry at people, emotional response, it goes on and on, put people into functional MRI devices, and image how these kinds of variables map onto brain activity. It's in its early stages, and it's crude by some measures, but in fact, 20 years ago, we were at nothing. You couldn't do people like this. You couldn't do healthy people. That's caused a literal revolution, and it's opened us up to a new experimental preparation. Neurobiologists, as you well know, have lots of experimental preps, worms and rodents and fruit flies and things like this. And now, we have a new experimental prep: human beings. We can now use human beings to study and model the software in human beings, and we have a few burgeoning biological measures.
Ovo je doslovno revolucija u kognitivnoj nauci. Uzmite bilo koju oblast kognicije, pamćenje planiranje, razmišljanje o vašoj svekrvi, ljutnju, emocionalne reakcije i lista se nastavlja, stavite ljude u funkcionalne MR aparate i posmatrajte kako ove varijable utiču na aktivnost mozga. Ideja je u ranoj fazi i još je nedovršena, ali pre 20 godina, nismo imali ništa. Nismo mogli ovako da istražujemo na ljudima. Ne na zdravim ljudima. To je izazvalo bukvalnu revoluciju i otvorilo nas je ka novim eksperimentalnim pripremama. Neurobiolozi kao što znate, eksperimentišu na crvima, glodarima, vinskim mušicama i sličnim oblicima života. A sada, možemo da eksperimentišemo i na ljudskim bićima. Možemo da koristimo ljudska bića u istraživanju i oblikovanju tog softvera u ljudskim bićima i sada imamo nekoliko razvijenih bioloških mera za to.
Okay, let me give you one example of the kinds of experiments that people do, and it's in the area of what you'd call valuation. Valuation is just what you think it is, you know? If you went and you were valuing two companies against one another, you'd want to know which was more valuable. Cultures discovered the key feature of valuation thousands of years ago. If you want to compare oranges to windshields, what do you do? Well, you can't compare oranges to windshields. They're immiscible. They don't mix with one another. So instead, you convert them to a common currency scale, put them on that scale, and value them accordingly. Well, your brain has to do something just like that as well, and we're now beginning to understand and identify brain systems involved in valuation, and one of them includes a neurotransmitter system whose cells are located in your brainstem and deliver the chemical dopamine to the rest of your brain. I won't go through the details of it, but that's an important discovery, and we know a good bit about that now, and it's just a small piece of it, but it's important because those are the neurons that you would lose if you had Parkinson's disease, and they're also the neurons that are hijacked by literally every drug of abuse, and that makes sense. Drugs of abuse would come in, and they would change the way you value the world. They change the way you value the symbols associated with your drug of choice, and they make you value that over everything else.
Ok, daću vam primer eksperimenata koje ljudi rade, a koji je u oblasti koju zovemo vrednovanje. Vrednovanje je ono što i mislite da jeste, znate? Ako biste uzeli da upoređujete vrednost dveju kompanija to biste uradili da otkrijete koja ima veću vrednost. Kulture su otkrile ključnu odliku vrednovanja još pre nekoliko hiljada godina. Ako želite da uporedite narandže i vetrobrane, šta ćete uraditi? Pa, ne možete da poredite narandže i vetrobrane. Oni se ne mogu mešati. Ne mogu se stavljati u isti koš. Umesto toga, konvertovaćete ih po skali zajedničkih vrednosti, staviti ih na tu skalu i tako ih vrednovati. Pa, vaš mozak isto mora da uradi nešto poput toga, a mi počinjemo da shvatamo i identifikujemo sisteme u mozgu koji učestvuju u vrednovanju, a jedan od njih uključuje sistem neurotransmitera čije ćelije se nalaze u korenu vašeg mozga i šalju supstanciju dopamin do ostatka vašeg mozga. Neću zalaziti u detalje, ali ovo je važno otkriće o kome sada znamo dosta. Ovo je samo mali deo toga, ali je bitan jer to su neuroni koje biste izgubili ako biste dobili Parkinsonovu bolest i to su takođe neuroni koji stradaju zbog bukvalno svake droge, a to ima smisla. Droga bi ušla u vaš sistem i promenila način na koji vrednujete svet. Ona menja način na koji vrednujete simbole vezane za drogu koju koristite i čine da to stavljate iznad svega ostalog.
Here's the key feature though. These neurons are also involved in the way you can assign value to literally abstract ideas, and I put some symbols up here that we assign value to for various reasons. We have a behavioral superpower in our brain, and it at least in part involves dopamine. We can deny every instinct we have for survival for an idea, for a mere idea. No other species can do that. In 1997, the cult Heaven's Gate committed mass suicide predicated on the idea that there was a spaceship hiding in the tail of the then-visible comet Hale-Bopp waiting to take them to the next level. It was an incredibly tragic event. More than two thirds of them had college degrees. But the point here is they were able to deny their instincts for survival using exactly the same systems that were put there to make them survive. That's a lot of control, okay?
Ali evo ključne odlike. Ovi neuroni takođe utiču na način na koji cenimo apstraktne ideje i ovde sam stavio nekoliko simbola koje cenimo iz raznih razloga. Imamo bihejvioralne super moći u našem mozgu koje bar delimično uključuju dopamin. Mi možemo da ignorišemo svaki instinkt za preživljavanjem zbog ideje, samo zbog ideje. Nijedna druga vrsta to ne može. 1997. pripadnici kulta Kapija raja počinili su masovno samoubistvo zasnovano na ideji da je postojao svemirski brod koji se krio u repu tada vidljive komete Hejl-Bop i koji je trebalo da ih prenese na sledeći nivo. Bio je to neverovatno tragičan događaj. Više od dve trećine njih završilo je fakultete. Ali poenta ovde je da su oni bili sposobni da zanemare svoj instinkt za preživljavanjem koristeći upravo one sisteme koji su postojali kako bi ih terali da prežive. To zahteva mnogo kontrole.
One thing that I've left out of this narrative is the obvious thing, which is the focus of the rest of my little talk, and that is other people. These same valuation systems are redeployed when we're valuing interactions with other people. So this same dopamine system that gets addicted to drugs, that makes you freeze when you get Parkinson's disease, that contributes to various forms of psychosis, is also redeployed to value interactions with other people and to assign value to gestures that you do when you're interacting with somebody else.
Jednu očiglednu stvar sam izostavio iz ove priče, koja je u fokusu ostatka mog govora a to su drugi ljudi. Isti ovi sistemi vrednovanja se primenjuju kada vrednujemo interakciju sa drugim ljudima. Dakle, isti ovaj dopaminski sistem, koji se navuče na drogu koji vas natera da se parališete kada dobijete Parkinsonovu bolest, koji učestvuje u raznim oblicima psihoze, takođe se primenjuje kod vrednovanja interakcije sa drugim ljudima i kod pridavanja važnosti gestovima koje činite kada ste u interakciji sa nekim drugim.
Let me give you an example of this. You bring to the table such enormous processing power in this domain that you hardly even notice it.
Daću vam primer ovoga. Vi posedujete toliku ogromnu moć obrade podataka u ovom području da na to jedva obraćate pažnju.
Let me just give you a few examples. So here's a baby. She's three months old. She still poops in her diapers and she can't do calculus. She's related to me. Somebody will be very glad that she's up here on the screen. You can cover up one of her eyes, and you can still read something in the other eye, and I see sort of curiosity in one eye, I see maybe a little bit of surprise in the other.
Daću vam nekoliko primera. Evo jedne bebe. Ona ima tri meseca. I dalje kaki u pelene i ne ume da računa. U rodu je sa mnom. Nekome će biti veoma drago što je ovde na ekranu. Možete pokriti jedno njeno oko i i dalje pročitati nešto u njenom drugom oku, a ja vidim neku radoznalost u jednom oku i možda malo iznenađenosti u drugom.
Here's a couple. They're sharing a moment together, and we've even done an experiment where you can cut out different pieces of this frame and you can still see that they're sharing it. They're sharing it sort of in parallel. Now, the elements of the scene also communicate this to us, but you can read it straight off their faces, and if you compare their faces to normal faces, it would be a very subtle cue.
Evo jednog para. Dele jedan zajednički trenutak, a mi smo čak uradili i eksperiment gde možete da isečete razne delove ove slike, a da i dalje vidite da oni dele isto osećanje. To se dešava paralelno. E sada, elementi scene takođe nam to govore, ali možete to pročitati direktno sa njihovih lica, a ako uporedite njihova lica sa normalnim licima, bio bi to veoma suptilan signal.
Here's another couple. He's projecting out at us, and she's clearly projecting, you know, love and admiration at him.
Evo još jednog para. On se obraća nama, a ona očigledno pokazuje, znate, ljubav i divljenje prema njemu.
Here's another couple. (Laughter) And I'm thinking I'm not seeing love and admiration on the left. (Laughter) In fact, I know this is his sister, and you can just see him saying, "Okay, we're doing this for the camera, and then afterwards you steal my candy and you punch me in the face." (Laughter) He'll kill me for showing that.
Evo još jednog para. (Smeh) I čini mi se da ne vidim ljubav i divljenje sa leve strane. (Smeh) Zapravo, ja znam da mu je to sestra i prosto možete da ga vidite kako govori: "Ok, radimo ovo samo za slikanje, a posle ćeš da mi kradeš slatkiše i da me udaraš u lice." (Smeh) Ubiće me što sam ovo pokazao.
All right, so what does this mean? It means we bring an enormous amount of processing power to the problem. It engages deep systems in our brain, in dopaminergic systems that are there to make you chase sex, food and salt. They keep you alive. It gives them the pie, it gives that kind of a behavioral punch which we've called a superpower.
U redu, šta onda ovo znači? Ovo znači da posedujemo ogromnu količinu moći obrade podataka. To uključuje dubinske sisteme u našem mozgu, u dopaminergičkim sistemima koji postoje kako bi vas terali da jurite seks, hranu i so. Oni vas drže u životu. Daje im celinu, daje takvu bihevijoralnu snagu koju smo nazvali super moć.
So how can we take that and arrange a kind of staged social interaction and turn that into a scientific probe? And the short answer is games. Economic games. So what we do is we go into two areas. One area is called experimental economics. The other area is called behavioral economics. And we steal their games. And we contrive them to our own purposes. So this shows you one particular game called an ultimatum game. Red person is given a hundred dollars and can offer a split to blue. Let's say red wants to keep 70, and offers blue 30. So he offers a 70-30 split with blue. Control passes to blue, and blue says, "I accept it," in which case he'd get the money, or blue says, "I reject it," in which case no one gets anything. Okay? So a rational choice economist would say, well, you should take all non-zero offers. What do people do? People are indifferent at an 80-20 split. At 80-20, it's a coin flip whether you accept that or not. Why is that? You know, because you're pissed off. You're mad. That's an unfair offer, and you know what an unfair offer is. This is the kind of game done by my lab and many around the world. That just gives you an example of the kind of thing that these games probe. The interesting thing is, these games require that you have a lot of cognitive apparatus on line. You have to be able to come to the table with a proper model of another person. You have to be able to remember what you've done. You have to stand up in the moment to do that. Then you have to update your model based on the signals coming back, and you have to do something that is interesting, which is you have to do a kind of depth of thought assay. That is, you have to decide what that other person expects of you. You have to send signals to manage your image in their mind. Like a job interview. You sit across the desk from somebody, they have some prior image of you, you send signals across the desk to move their image of you from one place to a place where you want it to be. We're so good at this we don't really even notice it. These kinds of probes exploit it. Okay?
Pa kako to možemo da uzmemo i napravimo nekakvu isceniranu društvenu interakciju i pretvorimo to u naučno istraživanje? A kratak odgovor bio bi: kroz igre. Ekonomske igre. Ono što mi radimo je da se bavimo dvama poljima. Jedno polje se zove eksperimentalna ekonomija. Drugo polje se zove bihevijoralna ekonomija. Mi krademo njihove igre i sprovodimo ih prema našim potrebama. Ovo vam prikazuje jednu od igara koja se zove igra ultimatuma. Crvena osoba dobija sto dolara i može da ih podeli sa plavom osobom. Recimo da crveni hoće da zadrži 70, a plavom nudi 30. Dakle, on plavom nudi podelu 70-30. Kontrola prelazi na plavog i on kaže: "Prihvatam" i u tom slučaju on dobija novac. Ili plavi kaže: "Odbijam" i u tom slučaju niko ne dobija ništa. Ok? Dakle, razumna odluka po ekonomistima bi bila prihvatiti sve ponude koje ne uključuju nulu. Šta ljudi rade? Ljudi su ravnodušni na 80-20 podelu. Na 80-20, može se bacati novčić kako bi se odlučilo da li prihvatiti ili ne. A zašto je to tako? Pa znate, jer ste iznervirani. Besni ste. To nije poštena ponuda, a vi znate kako ona izgleda. Ovakva igra se radi u mojoj laboratoriji i još mnogima širom sveta. To vam samo daje primer stvari koje ove igre ispituju. Zanimljivo je da ove igre zahtevaju od vas mnogo kognitivnog materijala. Morate biti sposobni da uđete u raspravu sa odgovarajućom drugom osobom. Morate biti sposobni da se setite šta ste uradili. Morate biti dostojni situacije da biste to uradili. Onda morate da ažurirate svoj model na osnovu signala koje dobijete i morate da uradite nešto zanimljivo, a to je da morate da uradite procenu skrivenih misli. Što znači da morate da procenite šta druga osoba očekuje od vas. Morate da šaljete signale kako biste upravljali vašom slikom u njenoj svesti. Kao razgovor za posao. Sedite preko puta nekoga, taj neko već ima prethodno stvorenu sliku o vama, vi šaljete signale preko stola kako biste promenili tu sliku sa postojeće na onakvu kakva vi želite da bude. Mi smo toliko dobri u tome, da ni ne obraćamo pažnju na to. Ovakva istraživanja to koriste. Razumete?
In doing this, what we've discovered is that humans are literal canaries in social exchanges. Canaries used to be used as kind of biosensors in mines. When methane built up, or carbon dioxide built up, or oxygen was diminished, the birds would swoon before people would -- so it acted as an early warning system: Hey, get out of the mine. Things aren't going so well. People come to the table, and even these very blunt, staged social interactions, and they, and there's just numbers going back and forth between the people, and they bring enormous sensitivities to it. So we realized we could exploit this, and in fact, as we've done that, and we've done this now in many thousands of people, I think on the order of five or six thousand. We actually, to make this a biological probe, need bigger numbers than that, remarkably so. But anyway, patterns have emerged, and we've been able to take those patterns, convert them into mathematical models, and use those mathematical models to gain new insights into these exchanges. Okay, so what? Well, the so what is, that's a really nice behavioral measure, the economic games bring to us notions of optimal play. We can compute that during the game. And we can use that to sort of carve up the behavior.
Radeći ovo shvatili smo da se ljudi ponašaju kao kanarinci u komunikativnim situacijama. Kanarinci su korišćeni kao biosenzori u rudnicima. Kada bi nivo metana ili ugljen-dioksida porastao, ili kada bi nivo kiseonika opao, ptice bi izgubile svest pre ljudi, tako da je to služilo kao sistem upozoravanja: Hej, izlazite iz rudnika. Stvari baš i ne stoje najbolje. Ljudi dođu na raspravu i čak i u ovim veoma ograničenim, odglumljenim društvenim interakcijama, gde se radi samo o razmenjivanju raznih brojeva, ljudi unose veliku osećajnost u to. Tako da smo shvatili da možemo ovo da iskoristimo i u stvari, dok smo to radili, a uradili smo to sada sa više hiljada ljudi, mislim na oko pet ili šest hiljada. Zapravo, kako bismo od ovoga napravili biološko istraživanje, treba nam i veći broj od ovoga mnogo veći. Ali u svakom slučaju, pojavili su se šabloni, a mi smo uzeli te šablone, pretvorili ih u matematičke modele i iskoristili te matematičke modele kako bismo napravili nova otkrića o ovim situacijama. Ok, pa šta? Pa, to da je ovo vrlo lepo merilo ponašanja, ekonomske igre nam donose predstavu optimalne igre. To možemo da izračunamo u toku igre. I to možemo da iskoristimo da, takoreći, isklešemo ponašanje.
Here's the cool thing. Six or seven years ago, we developed a team. It was at the time in Houston, Texas. It's now in Virginia and London. And we built software that'll link functional magnetic resonance imaging devices up over the Internet. I guess we've done up to six machines at a time, but let's just focus on two. So it synchronizes machines anywhere in the world. We synchronize the machines, set them into these staged social interactions, and we eavesdrop on both of the interacting brains. So for the first time, we don't have to look at just averages over single individuals, or have individuals playing computers, or try to make inferences that way. We can study individual dyads. We can study the way that one person interacts with another person, turn the numbers up, and start to gain new insights into the boundaries of normal cognition, but more importantly, we can put people with classically defined mental illnesses, or brain damage, into these social interactions, and use these as probes of that. So we've started this effort. We've made a few hits, a few, I think, embryonic discoveries. We think there's a future to this. But it's our way of going in and redefining, with a new lexicon, a mathematical one actually, as opposed to the standard ways that we think about mental illness, characterizing these diseases, by using the people as birds in the exchanges. That is, we exploit the fact that the healthy partner, playing somebody with major depression, or playing somebody with autism spectrum disorder, or playing somebody with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, we use that as a kind of biosensor, and then we use computer programs to model that person, and it gives us a kind of assay of this.
Evo jedne kul stvari. Pre šest ili sedam godina, oformili smo tim. Tada je to bilo u Hjustonu, u Teksasu. Sada je u Virdžiniji i Londonu. I napravili smo softver koji će povezati sprave za funkcionalnu magnetnu rezonancu preko interneta. Mislim da smo to tada uradili sa oko šest mašina, ali fokusirajmo se na dve. Dakle, usklađujemo mašine bilo gde u svetu. Mi usklađujemo mašine, namestimo ih na te odglumljene društvene interakcije i prisluškujemo dva mozga u interakciji. Prvi put, ne moramo da posmatramo samo individualne proseke, ili da svako individualno igra kompjuter ili da pokušamo da pravimo zaključke na taj način. Možemo da proučavamo individualne dijade. Možemo da proučavamo način na koji jedna osoba komunicira da drugom, da povećamo broj osoba i počnemo da pravimo nova otkrića o granicama normalne kognicije, ali ono što je još bitnije, možemo da stavimo ljude sa klasično definisanim mentalnim oboljenjima ili oštećenjima mozga u ove društvene interakcije i da ih koristimo u istraživanju toga. Dakle, mi smo započeli ovaj napor. Imali smo nekoliko pogodaka, nekoliko, verujem, početnih otkrića. Mislimo da ovo ima budućnost. Ali to je naš način ulaska u to i redefinisanja, sa novim rečnikom, matematičkim, zapravo, koji je suprotan standardnom načinu na koji vidimo mentalna oboljenja, karakterišući ove bolesti, koristeći ljude kao ptice u interakciji. Odnosno, iskorišćavamo činjenicu da zdrav partner glumi nekoga sa teškom depresijom, ili nekoga sa spektrom autističnih poremećaja, ili nekoga sa hiperkinetičkim poremećajem. Koristimo to kao nekakve biosenzore, a zatim koristimo kompjuterske programe da modeliramo tu osobu i to nam daje neku procenu toga.
Early days, and we're just beginning, we're setting up sites around the world. Here are a few of our collaborating sites. The hub, ironically enough, is centered in little Roanoke, Virginia. There's another hub in London, now, and the rest are getting set up. We hope to give the data away at some stage. That's a complicated issue about making it available to the rest of the world. But we're also studying just a small part of what makes us interesting as human beings, and so I would invite other people who are interested in this to ask us for the software, or even for guidance on how to move forward with that.
Još je rano i tek počinjemo, širimo se po svetu. Evo nekoliko naših saradnika. Središte se, ironično, nalazi u Malom Roanoku, u Virdžiniji. Drugo središte nalazi se u Londonu, za sada, a ostala su u procesu. Nadamo se da ćemo u nekom trenutku moći da otkrijemo podatke. Komplikovan je problem napraviti ovo dostupnim za ostatak sveta. Ali mi takođe proučavamo samo mali deo onoga što nas kao ljudska bića čini zanimljivim i stoga bih da pozovem druge ljude koje ovo zanima da nas pitaju o softveru ili da čak potraže pomoć oko toga kako da napreduju u tome.
Let me leave you with one thought in closing. The interesting thing about studying cognition has been that we've been limited, in a way. We just haven't had the tools to look at interacting brains simultaneously. The fact is, though, that even when we're alone, we're a profoundly social creature. We're not a solitary mind built out of properties that kept it alive in the world independent of other people. In fact, our minds depend on other people. They depend on other people, and they're expressed in other people, so the notion of who you are, you often don't know who you are until you see yourself in interaction with people that are close to you, people that are enemies of you, people that are agnostic to you. So this is the first sort of step into using that insight into what makes us human beings, turning it into a tool, and trying to gain new insights into mental illness. Thanks for having me. (Applause) (Applause)
Ostaviću vas sa jednom mišlju za kraj. Zanimljiva stvar kod proučavanja kognicije je da smo, na neki način, bili ograničeni. Samo nismo imali instrumente kojima bismo posmatrali mozgove u simultanoj interakciji. Činjenica je, pak, da čak i kad smo sami, mi smo izuzetno društvena bića. Nismo samotni um izgrađen od osobina koje ga drže u životu nezavisno od drugih ljudi. Zapravo, naši umovi zavise od drugih ljudi. Oni zavise od drugih ljudi i očituju se u drugim ljudima, tako da pojam onoga ko ste, vi često ne znate ko ste dok ne vidite sebe u interakciji sa drugim ljudima koji su vam bliski, ljudima koji su vaši neprijatelji, ljudima koji su sumnjičavi prema vama. Dakle, ovo je prvi korak ka korišćenju tih saznanja o tome šta nas čini ljudskim bićima i pretvaranju toga u alat i pokušaju dobijanja novih saznanja o mentalnim oboljenjima. Hvala na pažnji. (Aplauz) (Aplauz)