About 1,600 years ago, St. Augustine wrote "The Confessions," which was the story of his youthful descent into sin and his later conversion to Christianity. And book two of “The Confessions” has a great beginning: "I propose now to set down my past wickedness and a carnal corruption of my soul." So you expect sex.
Pre oko 1 600 godina, Sv. Avgustin je napisao „Ispovesti”, a to je bila priča o njegovom mladalačkom padu u greh i njegovom kasnijem preobraćanju u hrišćanstvo. A druga knjiga „Ispovesti” ima sjajan početak: „Hoću da se podsetim na prošle svoje sramote i putene pokvarenosti duše svoje.” Dakle, očekujete seks.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
But to the disappointment of readers over the centuries, the sin that Augustine talks about... isn’t carnal at all. It has to do with pears. He and his friends break into an orchard and they steal some pears. And that was it. They didn’t have anything against the person who owned the orchard. They weren’t hungry; they threw the pears to pigs.
Međutim, na viševekovno raozočaranje čitalaca, greh o kom Avgustin govori... uopšte nije puten. Ima veze sa kruškama. On i njegovi prijatelji upadaju u voćnjak i kradu nešto krušaka. I to bi bilo to. Nisu imali ništa protive osobe koja je posedovala voćnjak. Nisu bili gladni; bacili su kruške svinjama.
What stunned Augustine and disturbed him was that he seemed to be motivated by a desire just to do wrong. He writes, "If any part of one of those pears passed my lips, it was the sin that gave it flavor. I had no motivation for wickedness except wickedness itself. I was foul and I loved it."
Ono što je zapanjilo i uznemirilo Avgustina je što se činilo da je motivisan žudnjom da prosto nanese zlo. Piše: „Jer ako je šta od onih krušaka i ušlo u moja usta, začin mu je bio moj zločin. Nisam imao podisticaj za grehom, osim greha samog. Bio sam nevaljao i sviđalo mi se.”
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
Now I'm a psychologist and I was interested in real-life stories of perverse actions, so I started The Perversity Project where I invited people to send me stories about perverse things that they did. I defined these acts as "when you choose to do something you know is wrong, morally or otherwise, at least, in part, because it's wrong."
Sad, ja sam psiholog i zainteresovao sam se za stvarne priče o izopačenim postupcima, pa sam pokrenuo Projekat izopačenosti gde sam pozvao ljude da mi šalju priče o izopačenostima koje su počinili. Definisao sam ove postupke kao „kad odlučite da uradite nešto za šta znate da je pogrešno, moralno ili na drugi način, barem delimično jer je pogrešno.”
So one of the first stories I got was, "Flirted with a woman's boyfriend knowing fully well he liked me. I knew I could steal him if I wanted, but I didn't want to do that. I just wanted her to feel uncomfortable whenever the three of us were in the same room."
Jedna od prvih priča koje sam dobio je bila: „Flertovala sam sa momkom druge žene savršeno svesna da mu se sviđam. Znala sam da mogu da ga preotmem ako želim, ali nisam želela to. Samo sam želela da se ona oseća neprijatno kad god bismo nas troje bili u istoj prostoriji.”
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
"Causing people pain is wrong, but that's exactly why I did it." And in fact, this is the plot of the Dolly Parton song "Jolene."
„Nanošenje bola ljudima je pogrešno, ali baš zato sam to radila.” I zapravo, ovo je zaplet pesme „Džolin” od Doli Parton.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
Sometimes it's self destructive. A young man wrote to me, "Ice skating on a pond, dark unfrozen spot 30 yards out, instead of avoiding it, I skate towards it, knowing but wondering, knowing but wondering... and splash!"
Ponekad je autodestruktivno. Mladić mi je pisao: „Klizanje na ledu na jezeru, tamna, nezaleđena tačka tridesetak metara ispred, umesto da je izbegnem, klizam ka njoj, znajući, ali pitajući se, znajući, ali pitajući se... i pljus!”
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
Now psychologists have long been interested in these sort of violent, disruptive, perverse acts and the kinds of people who do them. An example people often give is the Joker from the “Batman” comics. In Christopher Nolan's film "The Dark Knight," Alfred, Batman’s butler, describes the Joker by saying, "Some men can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." And psychologists have thought up a "need for chaos" scale that gives you a bunch of statements and how much you agree with them will tell you how much you want to watch the world burn.
Psiholozi su već dugo zainteresovani za ove nasilne, remetilačke, izopačene postupke, kao i za ljude koji ih obavljaju. Primer koji ljudi često navode je Džoker iz stripova o Betmenu. U filmu Kristofera Nolana „Mračni vitez”, Alfred, Betmenov batler, opisuje Džokera rečima: „Neki ljudi se ne mogu potkupiti, uceniti, ubediti, niti se može s njima pregovarati. Neki ljudi samo žele da gledaju svet kako gori.” A psiholozi su osmislili skalu „potrebe za haosom” koja vam nudi gomilu izjava, i to koliko se slažete s njima saopštava vam koliko želite da gledate svet kako gori.
So do this quietly in your head. "I need chaos around me. It's too boring if nothing is going on." "Sometimes I just like destroying beautiful things."
Stoga odradite ovo tiho u glavama. „Potrebno je da imam haos oko sebe. Predosadno je kad se ništa ne dešava.” „Ponekad prosto volim da uništavam lepe stvari.”
But not all the stories I got had that kind of nature. Some were a little bit more benign. Here's one of my favorites. "On one occasion in my early 20s, I was out with a friend. He decided to get himself an ice cream and before he had a chance to try it, I stuck my finger in it."
Međutim, nisu sve priče koje sam dobio bile po prirodi ovog tipa. Neke su bile malčice bezazlenije. Evo jedne od mojih omiljenih. „Jednom prilikom u ranim 20-im, bio sam u izlasku s prijateljem. Odlučio je da poruči sebi sladoled i pre nego što je uspeo da ga proba, zabio sam prst u njega.”
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
"I tried to play it off as a joke, but really I had the sudden thought, ’Man, it would be -- messed up if I just jammed my finger in his ice cream.'"
„Pokušao sam da to predstavim kao šalu, ali usitinu sam imao iznenadnu misao: ’Čoveče, bilo bi pokvareno, ako bih samo zabio prst u njegov sladoled.’”
Someone else wrote me, "When I was in a professional choir, at every concert, I felt the desire to sing a few notes very incorrectly on purpose. To this day, I don't completely understand why." Someone else wrote me, and this is kind of the sweetest, saddest little example of modest perversity: “Sometimes I walk on the grass instead of the path just because I know it's wrong."
Neko drugi mi je pisao: „Kada sam bio u profesionalnom horu, na svakom koncertu, osećao sam potrebu da namerno pevam nekoliko nota skroz pogrešno. Ni dan-danas mi nije najjasnije zašto.” Neko drugi mi je pisao, a ovo je nekako najslađi, najtužniji primerčić skromne izopačenosti: „Ponekad hodam po travi umesto po stazi samo zato što znam da je pogrešno.”
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
Now a lot of perversity makes the world worse. I wouldn't want an Uber driver who scores high on a "need for chaos" scale. And I don't want a friend or a colleague either.
Zbog većine izopačenosti svet je gore mesto. Ne bih želeo taksistu koji ima visok prosek na skali „potrebe za haosom”. I ne bih poželeo takvog prijatelja ili kolegu.
But sometimes, I'll suggest to you, perversity can be clever, creative, beautiful. And there are some examples from art.
Ponekad pak, predložiću vam, izopačenost može da bude pametna, kreativna, prelepa. I imamo neke primere iz umetnosti.
There was an illustrious art exhibition in New York City in 1917, and they said, "You could send in anything you want, we'll accept everything." So Marcel Duchamp sent in a urinal, described [as] a fountain, and they rejected it. They said, "No, no, we just accept artwork." But Duchamp insisted it was artwork and the resulting controversy turned out to be one of the pivotal moments in the history of modern art.
Na čuvenoj umetničkoj izložbi u Njujorku 1917. su rekli: „Možete poslati šta vam je volja, sve prihvatamo.” Pa je Marsel Dišan poslao bide, koga je opisao kao fontanu, a oni su ga odbili. Rekli su: „Ne, ne, prihvatamo samo umetnost.” Dišan je pak insistirao da se radi o umetnosti, a ispostavilo se da je nastala kontroverza bila jedan od ključnih momenata u istoriji savremene umetnosti.
Or take Banksy. A few years ago, Banksy sold a painting “Girl with Balloon” at Sotheby’s, at auction, and he set up the frame so that the moment the painting was sold, the moment the gavel went "boom," a machine in the frame shredded the painting halfway through, horrifying the audience. But... getting on the front pages of newspapers all over the world. Later on, describing it, Banksy quotes a Russian anarchist who says, "The urge to destroy is also a creative urge."
Ili uzmite Benksija. Pre nekoliko godina, Benksi je prodao sliku „Devojka s balonom” na aukciji u Sotebiju i podesio je ram da u trenutku kada se slika proda, u trenutku kad čekić uradi „bum”, mašina u ramu pocepa sliku do pola, na užasavanje publike. Međutim, stigao je na naslovne strane novina širom sveta. Kasnije je Benksi opisujući čin citirao ruskog anarhistu koji je rekao: „Nagon za uništavanjem je takođe kreativni nagon.”
Or take comedy. Perversity is part and parcel of comedy. So much of what's funny is when people do things that are irrational or immoral. In the right hands, perversity is such a source of joy.
Ili uzmite komediju. Izopačenost je suštinski deo komedije. Toliko toga smešnog je kad ljudi rade stvari koje su iracionalne i nemoralne. U pravim rukama, izopačenost je veliki izvor radosti.
Perversity can also be powerful. Rory Sutherland wrote, "Irrational people are much more powerful than rational people." He gave two reasons why this is so. The first is, their threats are so much more convincing.
Izopačenost može da bude i moćna. Rori Saderlend je napisao: „Iracionalni ljudi imaju daleko veću moć od racionalnih ljudi.” Dao je dva razloga zašto je tako. Prvi je, njihove pretnje su daleko uverljivije.
Suppose I'm in a confrontation with you and you threaten me and you’re a rational, reasonable... person. So I know your threats ...
Zamislite da sam u sukobu s vama i pretite mi, a vi ste racionalna, razumna... osoba. Te ja znam vaše pretnje...
Woman: Ehh.
Žena: Eh.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
PB: Well, I know your threats are going to be normal, proportional and reasonable. But, if as somebody is hinting here, you’re a perverse agent, I have no idea what you're capable of and you're far more frightening to me.
PB: Znam da će vaše pretnje da budu normalne, proporcionalne i razumne. Međutim, kao što je neko sugerisao ovde, ako ste izopačeni činilac, pojma nemam za šta ste sposobni i daleko vas se više plašim.
Second reason is, if you're wholly predictable, people learn to hack you. So again, if you're rational and I have to outsmart you, figure out what you're going to do next, I figure you’ll do the rational thing. If you're perverse, you're harder to predict. And so harder to hack.
Drugi razlog je: ako ste skroz predvidljivi, ljudi nauče da vas čitaju. Te, opet, ako ste racionalni i ja moram da vas nadmudrim, provalim vaš sledeći potez, pretpostavljam da ćete postupiti razumno. Ako ste izopačeni, teže vas je predvideti. I samim tim teže pročitati.
Edgar Allan Poe, describing perversity, described, talked about imps, little magical demons in our heads that cause us to do terrible things. But like I said, I'm a psychologist, I don't believe in imps. I think what we do has reasons, has motivations. And I think for perverse actions there is a range of them.
Edgar Alan Po, opisujući izopačenost, opisivao je i govorio o đavolcima, malenim čarobnim demonima u vašoj glavi zbog kojih radite užasne stvari. Međutim, kao što sam rekao, ja sam psiholog, ne verujem u đavolke. Smatram da za sve što radimo postoji razlog, postoje motivacije. I smatram da za izopačene postupke postoji čitav niz istih.
One of them was mentioned by Augustine. So later on, after describing the incident with the pears, he writes, "I would not have done it by myself. My satisfaction did not lie in the pears, it lay in the crime itself, committed in league with a gang of sinners." The social force drove him.
Jedan od njih pominje Avgustin. Kasnije, nakon opisa incidenta sa kruškama, piše: „Ne bih to uradio sam. Moje zadovoljstvo nije počivalo u kruškama, počivalo je u samom prestupu, počinjenom u savezu sa bandom grešnika.” Društvene sile su ga vukle.
And there are other things, too. One force that really interests me goes under many names: self-governance, freedom, liberty, agency. Call it autonomy. Call it a desire to be free to do what you want, free of the constraints of other people and free also of the constraints of rationality and morality.
A postoje i druge stvari. Jedna sila koja me zaista interesuje ima razna imena: vladanje sobom, nezavisnost, sloboda, intencionalnost. Nazovite je autonomijom. Nazovite je žudnjom za slobodom da radite šta želite, oslobođeni stega drugih ljudi i takođe oslobođeni stega racionalnosti i moralnosti.
And Jonah Berger gives a nice example of this. He talks about the Tide Pod challenge of a few years ago, where many teenagers, instead of using these as detergent products, bit into them and sometimes consumed them. Now, as you might imagine, Procter and Gamble, who own the products, were incredibly unhappy about this and they set up an extremely expensive ad campaign designed to stop people from consuming these products. And one of their campaigns involved a ... popular football player known as Gronk.
A Džona Berger daje lep primer za ovo. Govori o izazovu jedenja tajd podova od pre nekoliko godina, gde su mnogi tinejdžeri, umesto da ih koriste kao deterdžent, zagrizali i ponekad ih jeli. Kao što možete da zamislite, Prokter i Gembl, koji poseduju proizvod, bili su izuzetno nezadovoljni ovim i pokrenuli su krajnje skupu reklamnu kampanju osmišljenu da spreči ljude da konzumiraju ove proizvode. A jedna njihova kampanja je uključivala popularnog fudbalera poznatog kao Gronk.
So the ad would begin, "Hey, Gronk, is eating the pods ever a good idea?" And Gronk responds, "No, no, no." Berger points out, when this ad came up, consumption of the pots shot up.
Reklama bi počela: „Hej, Gronk, da li jedenje podova uopšte može da bude dobra ideja?” A Gronk odgovara: „Ne, ne, ne.” Berger ističe da kada je ova reklama izašla konzumacija podova je naglo skočila.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
Not down. "Nobody's going to tell me what to do. Who is this Gronk telling me what to do? I want to be an autonomous, free being."
A ne opala. „Niko mi neće govoriti šta da radim. Ko je Gronk da mi kaže šta da radim? Želim da budem nezavisno, slobodno biće.”
And psychologists call this reactance. This means it's "an unpleasant feeling that emerges when people experience a threat to or loss of their free behaviors." And there's a wealth of laboratory studies looking at reactance. So they test the idea that what you try to do is reestablish the threatened freedom.
A psiholozi ovo nazivaju reaktancijom. Ona označava „neprijatno osećanje koje se javi kada ljudi doživljavaju pretnju po ili gubitak njihovog slobodnog ponašanja.” A postoji obilje laboratorijskog istraživanja koje se bavi reaktancijom. Pa testiraju ideju da ono što pokušavate je ponovno uspostavljanje ugrožene slobode.
And so one of the studies, for instance, looks at binge-drinking ads and finds that when binge drinking ads are particularly heavy-handed, people often respond by drinking more. ... "I'm going to reestablish my freedom." "I'm going to do what I want."
Jedno od istraživanja, primera radi, posmatra reklame o opijanju i pronalazi da kada su reklame o opijanju naročito agresivne, ljudi često reaguju tako što više piju. „Povratiću svoju slobodu.” „Radiću šta mi je volja.”
Or take threats of reprisal. There's a lovely study by a team of political scientists which asked you, asked the subjects, to imagine that they’re an ambassador to a country and they're deciding whether or not to have sanctions towards that country. In one condition, the dictator says "If you do sanctions towards our country, that's OK, I won't do anything." In the second condition, the dictator says, "If you do sanctions towards our country, I will unleash terrorist attacks against you."
Ili uzmite pretnju odmazde. Postoji divno istraživanje ekipe političkih naučnika koje je pitalo vas, pitalo učesnike da zamisle da su ambasadori u državi i da odlučuju da li da uvedu sankcije toj državi. U jednom slučaju, diktator kaže: „Ako uvedete sankcije našoj državi, u redu je, neću ništa uraditi.” U drugom slučaju diktator kaže: „Ako uvedete sankcije našoj državi, izvršiću terorističke napade na vas.”
What's the stunning finding from this is that in the second condition, not the first, they were more likely to do it. A lot of our perverse actions are in response to people telling us not to do what we want to do, and it makes us want all the more to do that thing.
Zapanjujući zaključak ovoga je da su u drugom slučaju, ne prvom, bili skloniji uvođenju sankcija. Većina naših izopačenosti su reakcije na ljude koji nam govore da ne radimo ono što želimo, a zbog toga samo još više želimo to da uradimo.
I think there are two lessons from the study of perversity. One is to appreciate its role in everyday life. It's really worth knowing that there are people out there who really do want to watch the world burn. And I think it's also worth knowing that each and every one of us, at some point in our life, wants to watch the world burn at least a little bit.
Mislim da dve lekcije proizlaze iz izučavanja izopačenosti. Jedna je da cenimo njenu ulogu u svakodnevnom životu. Zaista je važno znati da tamo negde postoje ljudi koji zaista žele da gledaju svet kako gori. Takođe smatram da je važno znati da baš svako od nas, u nekom trenutku u našem životu, želi da gleda svet kako gori bar malčice.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
I think it's worth knowing, at least for consequential decisions like choosing who to vote for, that people aren't just motivated by material self-interest or by an affiliation to social and political group. Sometimes people want to be autonomous beings, they want to be free. And telling these people, "What you're doing is stupid," "what you're doing is irrational," "what you're doing is immoral," can have the paradoxical effect of motivating them to do exactly what you don't want them to do.
Smatram da je to važno znati, bar zbog važnih odluka poput izbora za koga da glasate, da ljudi nisu samo motivisani materijalnim ličnim interesom ili pripadnosti nekoj društvenoj ili političkoj grupi. Ponekad ljudi žele da budu nezavisna bića, žele da budu slobodni. A govorenje tim ljudima: „To što radite je glupo”, „to što radite je iracionalno”, „to što radite je nemoralno”, može da ima paradoksalan efekat i da ih motiviše da urade baš ono što ne želite da urade.
The second lesson of perversity has to do with our everyday lives. A lot of perversity is awful. I think the world would be better off without it. But I think we've seen a little bit that perversity could be funny. It could be clever. I think it can make the world a better place. And so I guess I'd suggest that a life with a little bit of perversity in it, a life where sometimes you put your finger into your friend's ice cream, is a life that's a lot more interesting.
Druga lekcija izopačenosti je u vezi sa našim svakodnevnim životima. Većina izopačenosti je užasna. Smatram da bi svetu bilo bolje bez njih. Smatram pak da smo malčice uvideli da izopačenost može da bude smešna. Može da bude pametna. Mislim da zbog nje svet može da bude bolje mesto. Stoga valjda predlažem da je život sa malo izopačenosti u sebi, život u kome ponekad zabijete prst u prijateljev sladoled život koji je daleko interesantniji.
Thank you.
Hvala vam.
(Applause)
(Aplauz)