My inbox is full of hate mails and personal abuse and has been for years. In 2010, I started answering those mails and suggesting to the writer that we might meet for coffee and a chat. I have had hundreds of encounters. They have taught me something important that I want to share with you.
我的收件箱充斥着很多仇恨 和对我人身攻击的邮件, 且已经持续数年。 在2010年,我开始回复这些邮件, 向寄信人提议见面, 喝杯咖啡聊聊天。 我有了数百次的会见。 他们教会了我很多 我想要与你们分享的重要道理。
I was born in Turkey from Kurdish parents and we moved to Denmark when I was a young child. In 2007, I ran for a seat in the Danish parliament as one of the first women with a minority background. I was elected, but I soon found out that not everyone was happy about it as I had to quickly get used to finding hate messages in my inbox. Those emails would begin with something like this: "What's a raghead like you doing in our parliament?" I never answered. I'd just delete the emails. I just thought that the senders and I had nothing in common. They didn't understand me, and I didn't understand them. Then one day, one of my colleagues in the parliament said that I should save the hate mails. "When something happens to you, it will give the police a lead."
我出生在土耳其,父母是库尔德人。 在我很小的时候, 我们全家就搬到了丹麦。 2007年,作为第一个 有少数民族背景的女性, 我参加了丹麦议员的竞选。 我当选了。 但我很快发现并不是 所有人都对这结果感到高兴。 我收到了很多仇恨邮件。 这些邮件可能以这样的方式开头: “你这个头上裹着烂布的人 在我们的议会里干什么?” 我从不回信。 我只是删掉这些邮件。 我想,这些人和我毫无交集, 他们不理解我, 我也不理解他们。 直到有一天,议会里 的一个同事跟我说, 我应该留下这些仇恨邮件。 “当你遭遇不测, 这些邮件能给警方提供线索。”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
I noticed that she said, "When something happens" and not "if."
我注意到她说的是 “当你遭遇不测”,不是“如果”。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Sometimes hateful letters were also sent to my home address. The more I became involved in public debate, the more hate mail and threats I received. After a while, I got a secret address and I had to take extra precautions to protect my family. Then in 2010, a Nazi began to harass me. It was a man who had attacked Muslim women on the street. Over time, it became much worse. I was at the zoo with my children, and the phone was ringing constantly. It was the Nazi. I had the impression that he was close. We headed home. When we got back, my son asked, "Why does he hate you so much, Mom, when he doesn't even know you?" "Some people are just stupid," I said. And at the time, I actually thought that was a pretty clever answer. And I suspect that that is the answer most of us would give. The others -- they are stupid, brainwashed, ignorant. We are the good guys and they are the bad guys, period.
有时候这些仇恨邮件 也会寄到我家里。 我越多地参与到公开辩论, 我收到的仇恨邮件和威胁就越多。 没过多久,我弄来了一个秘密地址, 我需要更加警惕我家人的安全。 2010年,一个纳粹分子开始骚扰我。 这是一个曾经在街上 攻击过穆斯林女性的人。 一段时间后,情况进一步恶化了。 我和我的孩子在动物园玩耍时, 我的手机会不时响起。 打来的是那个纳粹分子。 我感到他就在我附近。 我和我孩子启程回家。 当我们到家后, 我儿子问我:“妈妈, 为什么他那么讨厌你, 他根本不认识你?” 我说:“有些人只是愚蠢。” 在那会儿,我觉得这是 一个非常聪明的回答。 我想这也是很多人会给出的答案。 其他人— 他们都是愚蠢的, 被洗脑的,无知的。 我们是好人,他们是坏人。
Several weeks later I was at a friend's house, and I was very upset and angry about all the hate and racism I had met. It was he who suggested that I should call them up and visit them. "They will kill me," I said. "They would never attack a member of the Danish Parliament," he said. "And anyway, if they killed you, you would become a martyr."
几周后,我在一个朋友的家里, 抱怨我所遇到的 所有仇恨和种族歧视。 我朋友建议我打电话给他们, 去拜访他们。 我说:“他们会把我杀了的。” 他说:“他们不会攻击 一个丹麦议会成员。” “而且就算他们杀了你, 你也会是一名烈士。”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
"So it's pure win-win situation for you."
“所以对你来说 这是一个双赢的局面。”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
His advice was so unexpected, when I got home, I turned on my computer and opened the folder where I had saved all the hate mail. There were literally hundreds of them. Emails that started with words like "terrorist," "raghead," "rat," "whore." I decided to contact the one who had sent me the most. His name was Ingolf. I decided to contact him just once so I could say at least I had tried. To my surprise and shock, he answered the phone. I blurted out, "Hello, my name is Özlem. You have sent me so many hate mails. You don't know me, I don't know you. I was wondering if I could come around and we can drink a coffee together and talk about it?"
我完全没料到他会这样建议。 当我回到家, 打开我的电脑, 打开保存所有仇恨邮件的文件夹。 不夸张的说,有成百上千封这样的邮件。 这些邮件大都以 这样的文字开头“恐怖分子“, “头上裹烂布的人”, “卑鄙小人”,“婊子”。 我决定联系那个 发最多邮件给我的人。 他的名字是Ingolf。 我决定只和他联系一次, 这样子我可以说,至少我尝试过了。 令我感到意外和震惊的是, 他接了电话。 我脱口而出:“你好,我是Özlem。 你给我发了很多封仇恨邮件。 你都不认识我,我也不认识你。 我在想我能不能前来拜访, 一起喝杯咖啡 聊一下?”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
There was silence on the line. And then he said, "I have to ask my wife."
电话那头是一阵沉默。 然后他说到: “我要问一下我妻子。”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
What? The racist has a wife?
什么? 这个种族歧视者有老婆?
(Laughter)
(笑声)
A couple of days later, we met at his house. I will never forget when he opened his front door and reached out to shake my hand. I felt so disappointed.
几天后,我在他家里见到了他。 我永远不会忘记 当他打开家门 伸出手跟我握手的场景。 我感到非常失望。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
because he looked nothing like I'd imagined. I had expected a horrible person -- dirty, messy house. It was not. His house smelled of coffee which was served from a coffee set identical to the one my parents used. I ended up staying for two and a half hours. And we had so many things in common. Even our prejudices were alike.
因为他跟我想象的一点都不一样。 我想,他会是一个很可怕的人, 住在一间脏乱的房子里。 但并不是这样的。 他的房子充满了咖啡的香味, 装咖啡的杯子跟我我父母的 其中一套咖啡杯一模一样。 最后我在那待了两个半小时。 我们有很多一样的地方。 甚至我们的偏见都很相似。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Ingolf told me that when he waits for the bus and the bus stops 10 meters away from him, it was because the driver was a "raghead." I recognized that feeling. When I was young and I waited for the bus and it stopped 10 meters away from me, I was sure that the driver was a racist.
Ingolf告诉我当他在等公交车时, 公交车会停在离他10米远的地方, 因为公交车司机是一个 “裹穆斯林头巾的人” 我理解这种感受。 我小时候, 也在等公交车时, 公交车会停在离我10米远的地方, 我很确定司机是个种族歧视分子。
When I got home, I was very ambivalent about my experience. On the one hand, I really liked Ingolf. He was easy and pleasant to talk to, but on the other hand, I couldn't stand the idea of having so much in common with someone who had such clearly racist views. Gradually, and painfully, I came to realize that I had been just as judgmental of those who had sent me hate mails as they had been of me.
当我回到家, 我对我的经历感到很矛盾。 一方面,我真的很喜欢Ingolf。 他很容易相处而且跟他聊天很开心, 但另一方面, 我不能忍受我与一个有 这样明显种族歧视的人 有那么多共同之处。 慢慢地, 而且痛苦地, 我终于意识到 我其实也在批判那些 给我发过仇恨邮件的人, 就像他们曾经对我那样。
This was the beginning of what I call #dialoguecoffee. Basically, I sit down for coffee with people who have said the most terrible things to me to try to understand why they hate people like me when they don't even know me. I have been doing this the last eight years. The vast majority of people I approach agree to meet me. Most of them are men, but I have also met women. I have made it a rule to always meet them in their house to convey from the outset that I trust them. I always bring food because when we eat together, it is easier to find what we have in common and make peace together.
这就是我所提到的 “#聊天咖啡”的开端。 也就是,坐下来跟曾经对我说过 最吓人的话的人喝喝咖啡, 试着去理解为什么 他们这么讨厌像我这样的人, 甚至在他们都不认识我时。 我在过去的八年里都做着这样的事。 绝大部分我联系到的人 都同意和我见面。 这里面很大一部分是男性, 但我也见过女性。 我制定了一条规定: 总是在他们家里见面, 从一开始就传达出我对他们的信任。 我总会带着食物前往, 因为当我们一起吃东西的时候, 比较容易找到我们的共通之处, 让我们能和平相处。
Along the way, I have learned some valuable lessons. The people who sent hate mails are workers, husbands, wives, parents like you and me. I'm not saying that their behavior is acceptable, but I have learned to distance myself from the hateful views without distancing myself from the person who's expressing those views. And I have discovered that the people I visit are just as afraid of people they don't know as I was afraid of them before I started inviting myself for coffee.
在这段经历中,我学到了 一些很重要的东西。 发仇恨邮件的人会是工人、 丈夫、妻子、 父母, 就像你和我一样。 我不是说他们的行为 是可以被接受的, 但是我学会了在远离这些充满恶意 的情况下, 不远离表达这些观点的人。 然后我发现 我拜访的人们其实 只是害怕他们不了解的人, 就像我邀请他们同饮咖啡前 对他们的恐惧。
During these meetings, a specific theme keeps coming up. It shows up regardless whether I'm talking to a humanist or a racist, a man, a woman, a Muslim or an atheist. They all seem to think that other people are to blame for the hate and for the generalization of groups. They all believe that other people have to stop demonizing. They point at politicians, the media, their neighbor or the bus driver who stops 10 meters away. But when I asked, "What about you? What can you do?", the reply is usually, "What can I do? I have no influence. I have no power." I know that feeling. For a large part of my life, I also thought that I didn't have any power or influence -- even when I was a member of the Danish parliament. But today I know the reality is different. We all have power and influence where we are, so we must never, never underestimate our own potential.
这些会面都围绕着同一个主题。 不论与我交谈的是一个人文主义者, 或是种族主义者, 男性或女性, 穆斯林或无神论者。 他们都认为 仇恨,还有种族的概化 都是其他人的错。 他们认为其他人必须要停止妖魔化。 他们把矛头对准政客, 媒体,邻居, 还有把公交车停在十米之外的司机。 但当我问道:“那你呢? 你能做些什么?” 回答大都是: “我能做些什么? 我毫无影响力, 也没有权力。” 我感同身受。 我人生中的很长一段时间也认为 我没有权力或是影响力—— 即使我是一名丹麦国会议员。 但现在我想,事实并非如此。 不论我们在哪儿, 我们都有权力和影响力, 所以我们永远不可以 低估我们的潜能。
The #dialoguecoffee meetings have taught me that people of all political convictions can be caught demonizing the others with different views. I know what I'm talking about. As a young child, I hated different population groups. And at the time, my religious views were very extreme. But my friendship with Turks, with Danes, with Jews and with racists has vaccinated me against my own prejudices. I grew up in a working-class family, and on my journey I have met many people who have insisted on speaking to me. They have changed my views. They have formed me as a democratic citizen and a bridge builder. If you want to prevent hate and violence, we have to talk to as many people as possible for as long as possible while being as open as possible. That can only be achieved through debate, critical conversation and insisting on dialogue that doesn't demonize people.
“#聊天咖啡”教会我的是 任何拥有政治信念的人都可能妖魔化 拥有不同观点的人。 我知道我在说些什么。 在我很小的时候, 我讨厌不同的种群。 那时,我的宗教观非常极端。 但我与土耳其人,丹麦人, 犹太人还有种族主义者的友谊 改变了我的偏见。 我出生于一个工人阶级家庭。 在我的旅程中,我见到了 许多人坚持同我谈话。 他们改变了我的很多观点。 他们让我成为了一个民主的公民, 一个桥梁的搭建者。 如果你想阻止仇恨和暴力, 你需要尽可能多地和人沟通, 坚持地越久越好, 同时越开放越好。 做到的唯一方式是去辩论, 去批判性交谈 并在对话中不将别人妖魔化。
I'm going to ask you a question. I invite you to think about it when you get home and in the coming days, but you have to be honest with yourself. It should be easy, no one else will know it. The question is this ... who do you demonize? Do you think supporters of American President Trump are deplorables? Or that those who voted for Turkish President Erdoğan are crazy Islamists? Or that those who voted for Le Pen in France are stupid fascists? Or perhaps you think that Americans who voted for Bernie Sanders are immature hippies.
我想问问大家。 我想让你们在回家后 的几天里思考一下, 但你要对自己坦诚相待。 这很简单, 没有其他人会知道。 这个问题是...... 你把谁妖魔化了? 你是否认为美国总统川普 的支持者是可悲的? 投票給土耳其总统埃尔多安 的人是疯狂的伊斯兰教徒? 认为在法国投票给勒朋的人 是愚蠢的法西斯? 又或者,在美国投票给 伯尼·桑德斯的是 幼稚的嬉皮士。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
All those words have been used to vilify those groups. Maybe at this point, do you think I am an idealist?
这些词汇都是对他们的诽谤。 或许在此刻, 你认为我是一个理想主义者?
I want to give you a challenge. Before the end of this year, I challenge you to invite someone who you demonize -- someone who you disagree with politically and/or culturally and don't think you have anything in common with. I challenge you to invite someone like this to #dialoguecoffee. Remember Ingolf? Basically, I'm asking you to find an Ingolf in your life, contact him or her and suggest that you can meet for #dialoguecofee.
我想给各位一个挑战。 在今年结束前, 我想你们去邀请一位 被你妖魔化的人—— 一个与你有不同政见 或是文化背景, 你认为和你毫无共同之处的人。 我想你邀请这样一个人进行 “#聊天咖啡”。 还记得Ingolf么? 确切来说,我想你找到 生活里的Ingolf, 联系他或她, 提议你们可以共饮“#聊天咖啡”。
When you start at #dialoguecoffee, you have to remember this: first, don't give up if the person refuses at first. Sometimes it's taken me nearly one year to arrange a #dialoguecoffee meeting. Two: acknowledge the other person's courage. It isn't just you who's brave. The one who's inviting you into their home is just as brave. Three: don't judge during the conversation. Make sure that most of the conversation focuses on what you have in common. As I said, bring food. And finally, remember to finish the conversation in a positive way because you are going to meet again. A bridge can't be built in one day.
当你开始“聊天咖啡”时, 你需要记得: 第一点,不要轻易放弃 对方的第一次拒绝。 有时我会花上一年的时间 来预约一场“#聊天咖啡”。 第二: 感激对方的勇气。 并不只有你是勇敢的。 邀请你到他家去的人也很勇敢。 第三: 不要在交谈中批判对方, 注意你们的关注点应该是你们的共同点。 像我所说的那样,带点食物。 最后记得积极正面地结束谈话, 因为你们会再次相遇。 冰冻三尺非一日之寒。
We are living in a world where many people hold definitive and often extreme opinions about the others without knowing much about them. We notice of course the prejudices on the other side than in our own bases. And we ban them from our lives. We delete the hate mails. We hang out only with people who think like us and talk about the others in a category of disdain. We unfriend people on Facebook, and when we meet people who are discriminating or dehumanizing people or groups, we don't insist on speaking with them to challenge their opinions. That's how healthy democratic societies break down -- when we don't check the personal responsibility for the democracy. We take the democracy for granted. It is not. Conversation is the most difficult thing in a democracy and also the most important.
我们生活在一个大多数人 对其他人持有 狭隘或是极端的评价的世界里, 但其实对他人所知甚少。 我们更多地注意到他人的偏见 而非我们自己的。 我们把他们排斥在了 我们的人生之外。 我们删掉那些仇恨邮件。 我们只与思想相近的人一起消遣, 以一种鄙夷的态度讨论他人。 我们删除Facebook里的好友, 当我们遇到歧视, 或是妖魔化他人的人时, 我们不会坚持和他们交谈, 来挑战他们的观点。 这正是健康民主社会的分崩所在—— 我们不再审视个人在民主上的责任。 我们将民主视为理所当然。 但事实并非如此。 在民主中,交谈是最困难的, 也是最重要的。
So here's my challenge. Find your Ingolf.
所以,这是我提出的挑战。 寻找你的Ingolf。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Start a conversation. Trenches have been dug between people, yes, but we all have the ability to build the bridges that cross the trenches.
开启一次对话。 是的,人与人之间有 不可逾越的鸿沟, 但我们有能力在鸿沟上建起桥梁。
And let me end by quoting my friend, Sergeot Uzan, who lost his son, Dan Uzan, in a terror attack on a Jewish synagogue in Copenhagen, 2015. Sergio rejected any suggestion of revenge and instead said this ... "Evil can only be defeated by kindness between people. Kindness demands courage." Dear friends, let's be courageous.
最后,让我引用我朋友 Sergeot Uzan的一句话, 他在2015在哥本哈根 的一个犹太教堂里的 一次恐怖袭击中失去了 他的儿子 Dan Uzan。 Sergio回绝了报复的建议, 反而说到: “罪恶只能被仁慈打败, 而仁慈需要勇气。” 亲爱的朋友们, 愿勇气与我们同在。
Thank you.
谢谢!
(Applause)
(鼓掌)