Hi veiem amb els ulls però també hi veiem amb el cervell. Veure-hi amb el cervell se sol anomenar imaginació. Estem familiaritzats amb els paisatges de la nostra imaginació, els paisatges interiors. Hi hem conviscut tota la vida. Però també existeixen les al·lucinacions. I les al·lucinacions són una altra cosa. No semblen creacions nostres. No sembla que les puguem controlar. Sembla que vinguin de fora, i que imitin la percepció.
We see with the eyes, but we see with the brain as well. And seeing with the brain is often called imagination. And we are familiar with the landscapes of our own imagination, our inscapes. We've lived with them all our lives. But there are also hallucinations as well. And hallucinations are completely different. They don't seem to be of our creation. They don't seem to be under control. They seem to come from the outside and to mimic perception. So I am going to be talking about hallucinations
Ara us parlaré sobre al·lucinacions. I una mena d'al·lucinacions visuals que veig en els meus pacients. Fa uns mesos, em van trucar d'una residència on treballo. Em van dir que una senyora de més de 90 anys veia coses. I es preguntaven si s'havia grillat o, com que era una senyora gran, si havia tingut un ictus, o si tenia Alzheimer.
and a particular sort of visual hallucination, which I see among my patients. A few months ago, I got a phone call from a nursing home where I work. They told me that one of their residents, an old lady in her 90s, was seeing things, and they wondered if she'd gone bonkers or, because she was an old lady, whether she'd had a stroke, or whether she had Alzheimer's.
Em van demanar que visités la Rosalie, la senyora gran. Vaig anar-la a veure. De seguida va ser evident que estava bé de seny, lúcida i intel·ligent. Però estava espantada, i molt estranyada, perquè veia coses. I em va dir -- les infermeres no ho havien esmentat-- que era cega, que s'havia quedat cega del tot, per degeneració macular, feia 5 anys. Però que ara, els dies passats, veia coses.
And so they asked me if I would come and see Rosalie, the old lady. I went in to see her. It was evident straightaway that she was perfectly sane and lucid and of good intelligence, but she'd been very startled and very bewildered, because she'd been seeing things. And she told me -- the nurses hadn't mentioned this -- that she was blind, that she had been completely blind from macular degeneration for five years. But now, for the last few days, she'd been seeing things.
Li vaig dir: "Com ara què?" I em va respondre: "Gent amb roba oriental, amb cortines, que pugen i baixen escales. Un home que es gira cap a mi i em somriu. Amb unes dents molt grosses en un costat de la boca. I també animals. Veig un edifici blanc. Neva, una neu tova. Veig un cavall, amb arnès, que retira la neu. Llavors, una nit, l'escena canvia. Veig gats i gossos que vénen cap a mi. Fins que arriben en un punt i s'aturen. Llavors torna a canviar. Veig tot de criatures. Pugen i baixen escales. Van vestits de colors vius, rosa i blau, com les robes orientals."
So I said, "What sort of things?" And she said, "People in Eastern dress, in drapes, walking up and down stairs. A man who turns towards me and smiles, but he has huge teeth on one side of his mouth. Animals too. I see a white building. It's snowing, a soft snow. I see this horse with a harness, dragging the snow away. Then, one night, the scene changes. I see cats and dogs walking towards me. They come to a certain point and then stop. Then it changes again. I see a lot of children. They're walking up and down stairs. They wear bright colors, rose and blue, like Eastern dress."
De vegades, deia, abans de veure gent al·lucinava quadres roses i blaus a terra, com si pugessin fins al sostre. Li dic: "Com si fos un somni?" I diu: "No, un somni no. És com una pel·lícula." Diu: "Té colors. Té moviment. Però completament en silenci, com una pel·lícula muda." Va dir que era una pel·lícula una mica avorrida. Diu: "Tot de gent amb vestits orientals, que pugen i baixen, molt repetitiu, molt limitat." (Rialles)
Sometimes, she said, before the people come on, she may hallucinate pink and blue squares on the floor, which seem to go up to the ceiling. I said, "Is this like a dream?" And she said, "No, it's not like a dream. It's like a movie." She said, "It's got color. It's got motion. But it's completely silent, like a silent movie." And she said it's a rather boring movie. (Laughter) She said, "All these people with Eastern dress, walking up and down, very repetitive, very limited." (Laughter)
I tenia sentit de l'humor. Sabia que era una al·lucinació. Però estava espantada. Tenia 95 anys i no havia tingut mai cap al·lucinació. Em deia que les al·lucinacions no tenien relació amb res del que pensava, sentia ni feia. Que semblava que li venien soles, i marxaven soles. No les podia controlar. Em va dir que no reconeixia ni la gent ni els llocs de les al·lucinacions. I que ni la gent ni els animals li feien gens de cas. I que no sabia què passava. Es preguntava si s'estava tornant boja, o si perdia el cap.
And she had a sense of humor. She knew it was a hallucination, but she was frightened. She had lived 95 years, and she'd never had a hallucination before. She said that the hallucinations were unrelated to anything she was thinking or feeling or doing, that they seemed to come on by themselves, or disappear. She had no control over them. She said she didn't recognize any of the people or places in the hallucinations, and none of the people or the animals -- well, they all seemed oblivious of her. And she didn't know what was going on. She wondered if she was going mad or losing her mind.
Doncs la vaig examinar atentament. Era una senyora molt eixerida. Amb el cap molt clar. No tenia problemes mèdics. No prenia cap medicament que li pogués produir al·lucinacions. Però era cega. Llavors li vaig dir: "Crec que ja sé què li passa." "Hi ha un tipus concret d'al·lucinacions visuals que es dóna quan hi ha visió deteriorada o ceguesa." "Ho va descriure per primera vegada", li vaig dir "en el segle XVIII, un home que es deia Charles Bonnet. I vostè té la síndrome de Charles Bonnet. No té cap problema al cervell. No ha perdut el seny. Té la síndrome de Charles Bonnet."
Well, I examined her carefully. She was a bright old lady, perfectly sane. She had no medical problems. She wasn't on any medications which could produce hallucinations. But she was blind. And I then said to her, "I think I know what you have." I said, "There is a special form of visual hallucination which may go with deteriorating vision or blindness. This was originally described," I said, "right back in the 18th century, by a man called Charles Bonnet. And you have Charles Bonnet syndrome. There's nothing wrong with your brain. There's nothing wrong with your mind. You have Charles Bonnet syndrome."
Es va quedar molt descansada de saber que no tenia res de greu, i també encuriosida. Em va preguntar: "Qui és aquest Charles Bonnet? També tenia el mateix?" I em deia: "Digui a totes les infermeres que tinc la síndrome de Charles Bonnet". (Rialles) "No estic boja. No repapiejo. Tinc la síndrome de Charles Bonnet". Així ho vaig dir a les infermeres.
And she was very relieved at this, that there was nothing seriously the matter, and also rather curious. She said, "Who is this Charles Bonnet?" She said, "Did he have them himself?" And she said, "Tell all the nurses that I have Charles Bonnet syndrome." (Laughter) "I'm not crazy. I'm not demented. I have Charles Bonnet syndrome." Well, so, I did tell the nurses.
Aquesta situació, la veig força sovint. Sobretot a les residències de gent gran. Veig molta gent gran amb deficiències d'oïda o de vista. I un 10% de la gent amb sordesa parcial tenen al·lucinacions musicals. I un 10% de la gent amb ceguesa parcial tenen al·lucinacions visuals. No cal ser cec del tot, només tenir una deficiència parcial.
Now this, for me, is a common situation. I work in old-age homes, largely. I see a lot of elderly people who are hearing-impaired or visually impaired. About 10 percent of the hearing-impaired people get musical hallucinations. And about 10 percent of the visually impaired people get visual hallucinations. You don't have to be completely blind, only sufficiently impaired.
A la descripció original del segle XVIII, en Charles Bonnet no ho patia. Era el seu avi que tenia aquestes al·lucinacions. El seu avi era jutge, un senyor gran. S'havia operat de cataractes. Tenia molt poca vista. I el 1759 li va explicar al seu nét algunes coses que veia.
Now, with the original description in the 18th century, Charles Bonnet did not have them. His grandfather had these hallucinations. His grandfather was a magistrate, an elderly man. He'd had cataract surgery. His vision was pretty poor. And in 1759, he described to his grandson various things he was seeing.
El primer que va dir que veia era un mocador que volava. Era un mocador gros i blau amb quatre cercles de color carbassa Ell sabia que era una al·lucinació. Els mocadors no volen. També veia una roda grossa volant. Però de vegades no estava segur si eren al·lucinacions o no perquè les al·lucinacions encaixaven en el context de la visió. Una vegada, que les seves nétes l'havien anat a veure, els digué: "Qui són aquests nois tan ben plantats?" I elles van respondre: "Ai, avi, aquí no hi ha cap noi ben plantat." I llavors els nois van desaparèixer. És típic que aquestes al·lucinacions vagin i vinguin de cop i volta. No solen desaparèixer a poc a poc. Són força sobtades. I canvien de sobte.
The first thing he said was he saw a handkerchief in midair. It was a large blue handkerchief with four orange circles. And he knew it was a hallucination. You don't have handkerchiefs in midair. And then he saw a big wheel in midair. But sometimes he wasn't sure whether he was hallucinating or not, because the hallucinations would fit in the context of the visions. So on one occasion, when his granddaughters were visiting them, he said, "And who are these handsome young men with you?" (Laughter) And they said, "Alas, Grandpapa, there are no handsome young men." And then the handsome young men disappeared. It's typical of these hallucinations that they may come in a flash and disappear in a flash. They don't usually fade in and out. They are rather sudden, and they change suddenly.
Charles Lullin, l'avi, veia centenars de figures diferents, paisatges de tota mena. Un cop va veure un home en barnús, fumant amb pipa, i es va adonar que era ell mateix. Era l'única figura que reconeixia. Una vegada, pels carrers de París, va veure -- això de debò -- una bastida. Però en tornar a casa, veia una bastida en miniatura de 15 cm d'alçada, al seu escriptori. Aquesta repetició de les percepcions de vegades s'anomena palinòpsia.
Charles Lullin, the grandfather, saw hundreds of different figures, different landscapes of all sorts. On one occasion, he saw a man in a bathrobe smoking a pipe, and realized it was himself. That was the only figure he recognized. On one occasion, when he was walking in the streets of Paris, he saw -- this was real -- a scaffolding. But when he got back home, he saw a miniature of the scaffolding, six inches high, on his study table. This repetition of perception is sometimes called "palinopsia."
L'avi, com la Rosalie, el que sembla que tenen -- com deia la Rosalie, "Què tinc?" -- és que, en perdre vista, com que les parts visuals del cervell no reben cap input, es tornen hiperactives i excitables. I comencen a saltar espontàniament. I llavors comences a veure coses. Les visions poden arribar a ser prou complicades.
With him and with Rosalie, what seems to be going on -- and Rosalie said, "What's going on?" -- and I said that as you lose vision, as the visual parts of the brain are no longer getting any input, they become hyperactive and excitable, and they start to fire spontaneously. And you start to see things. The things you see can be very complicated indeed.
Una altra pacient meva, que encara tenia una mica de vista, de vegades tenia visions pertorbadores. Una vegada em deia que havia vist un home amb camisa de ratlles en un restaurant. Que l'home es va girar, i llavors es va dividir en sis figures idèntiques amb camisa de ratlles, que caminaven cap a ella. I llavors les sis figures es van tornar a ajuntar, com un acordió. Un cop, mentre conduïa, o, més ben dit, conduïa el seu marit, la carretera es va dividir en quatre. I va sentir com si anés alhora per quatre carreteres.
With another patient of mine who also had some vision, the visions she had could be disturbing. On one occasion, she said she saw a man in a striped shirt in a restaurant. And he turned round, and then he divided into six figures in striped shirts, who started walking towards her. And then the six figures came together, like a concertina. Once, when she was driving, or rather, her husband was driving, the road divided into four and she felt herself going simultaneously up four roads.
També tenia al·lucinacions molt mòbils. Moltes tenien a veure amb el cotxe. De vegades veia un noiet adolescent assegut al capó del cotxe. Era molt ferm i es movia amb força agilitat quan el cotxe girava. I quan el cotxe s'aturava, el noi de sobte sortia disparat, a 30 metres del terra, i desapareixia.
She had very mobile hallucinations as well. A lot of them had to do with a car. Sometimes she would see a teenage boy sitting on the hood of the car. He was very tenacious, and he moved rather gracefully when the car turned. And then when they came to a stop, the boy would do a sudden vertical takeoff, 100 foot in the air, and then disappear.
Una altra pacient tenia al·lucinacions diferents. Era una dona que no tenia cap lesió als ulls, sinó a les parts visuals del cervell. Un petit tumor al còrtex occipital. I sobretot veia dibuixos animats. Eren dibuixos transparents que li cobrien mig camp visual, com una pantalla. Especialment veia la granota Gustau. (Rialles) Jo no veig Barri Sèsam, però ella insistia molt, "Per què la granota Gustau, que no significa res per a mi? Pensava en els determinants freudians. Per què en Gustau? La granota Gustau no significa res per a mi."
Another patient of mine had a different sort of hallucination. This was a woman who didn't have trouble with her eyes but the visual parts of her brain, a little tumor in the occipital cortex. And, above all, she would see cartoons. And these cartoons would be transparent, and would cover half the visual field, like a screen. And especially, she saw cartoons of Kermit the Frog. (Laughter) Now, I don't watch Sesame Street, but she made a point of saying, "Why Kermit?" she said, "Kermit the Frog means nothing to me." You know, I was wondering about Freudian determinants: Why Kermit? "Kermit the Frog means nothing to me."
No li importava veure dibuixos, el que l'amoïnava era veure imatges persistents o al·lucinacions de cares i, com la Rosalie, sovint eren cares deformades, amb les dents o els ulls molt grossos. Això li feia por. Bé, doncs què els passa a aquestes persones? Com a metge, he d'intentar definir el que passa, i tranquil·litzar la gent. Sobretot explicar-los que no s'estan tornant bojos.
She didn't mind the cartoons too much. But what did disturb her was she got very persistent images or hallucinations of faces, and as with Rosalie, the faces were often deformed, with very large teeth or very large eyes. And these frightened her. Well, what is going on with these people? As a physician, I have to try and define what's going on and to reassure people, especially to reassure them that they're not going insane.
Aproximadament un 10%, com us deia, de les persones amb ceguesa parcial tenen aquestes al·lucinacions. Però menys d'un 1% ho reconeixen. Perquè tenen por de ser considerats bojos, i tal. I si ho expliquen al seu metge els pot diagnosticar malament.
Something like 10 percent, as I said, of visually impaired people get these. But no more than one percent of the people acknowledge them, because they are afraid they will be seen as insane or something. And if they do mention them to their own doctors, they may be misdiagnosed.
Concretament, la idea és que si veus coses o sents coses, t'estàs tornant boig. Però les al·lucinacions psicòtiques són força diferents. Les al·lucinacions psicòtiques, ja siguin visions o sons, se t'adrecen. T'acusen. Et sedueixen. T'humilien. Se'n riuen de tu. Hi interactues. Aquesta mena d'interpel·lacions no es donen en les al·lucinacions de Charles Bonnet És una pel·lícula. Veus una pel·lícula que no té res a veure amb tu. Almenys així és com ho veu la gent.
In particular, the notion is that if you see things or hear things, you're going mad. But the psychotic hallucinations are quite different. Psychotic hallucinations, whether they are visual or vocal, they address you. They accuse you, they seduce you, they humiliate you, they jeer at you. You interact with them. There is none of this quality of being addressed with these Charles Bonnet hallucinations. There is a film. You're seeing a film which has nothing to do with you -- or that's how people think about it.
També hi ha una raresa que es diu epilèpsia del lòbul temporal. De vegades, si la pateixes, et sents com si et portessin enrere cap a un temps i un lloc del passat. Estàs en una cruïlla de camins. Sents olor de nous torrades. Sents el trànsit. Tots els sentits hi participen. Estàs esperant la teva xicota. I és aquell dimarts al vespre de 1982. Les al·lucinacions de lòbul temporal són al·lucinacions multisensorials, plenes de sensacions, de familiaritat, situades en l'espai i el temps, coherents, dramàtiques. Les de Charles Bonnet són bastant diferents.
There is also a rare thing called temporal lobe epilepsy, and sometimes, if one has this, one may feel oneself transported back to a time and place in the past. You're at a particular road junction. You smell chestnuts roasting. You hear the traffic. All the senses are involved. And you're waiting for your girl. And it's that Tuesday evening back in 1982. The temporal lobe hallucinations are all sense hallucinations, full of feeling, full of familiarity, located in space and time, coherent, dramatic. The Charles Bonnet ones are quite different.
Amb les al·lucinacions de Charles Bonnet, hi ha tota mena de nivells, des d'al·lucinacions geomètriques, com els quadres roses i blaus de la senyora, fins a al·lucinacions força elaborades amb figures i sobretot cares. Cares, de vegades cares deformades, són el comú denominador més habitual d'aquestes al·lucinacions. I una altra cosa habitual són els dibuixos.
In the Charles Bonnet hallucinations, you have all sorts of levels, from the geometrical hallucinations -- the pink and blue squares the woman had -- up to quite elaborate hallucinations with figures and especially faces. Faces, and sometimes deformed faces, are the single commonest thing in these hallucinations. And one of the second commonest is cartoons.
Així doncs, què passa? És fascinant com, en els darrers anys, s'han pogut fer escàners cerebrals funcionals, fer una ressonància magnètica funcional quan la persona està al·lucinant. I realment veure quines parts del cervell visual s'activen durant l'al·lucinació. Quan la gent té al·lucinacions geomètriques simples, s'activa el còrtex visual primari. És la part del cervell que percep siluetes i formes. No es formen imatges amb el còrtex visual primari
So, what is going on? Fascinatingly, in the last few years, it's been possible to do functional brain imagery, to do fMRI on people as they are hallucinating, and, in fact, to find that different parts of the visual brain are activated as they are hallucinating. When people have these simple, geometrical hallucinations, the primary visual cortex is activated. This is the part of the brain which perceives edges and patterns. You don't form images with your primary visual cortex.
Quan les imatges es formen, una part superior del còrtex visual intervé en el lòbul temporal. Concretament, una zona del lòbul temporal que es diu gir fusiforme. Se sap que les persones amb lesions al gir fusiforme poden perdre la capacitat de reconèixer cares. Però si hi ha activitat anormal al gir fusiforme, pot ser que al·lucinin cares. I això és exactament el que els passa a aquestes persones. Hi ha una zona a la part anterior del gir on es representen les dents i els ulls. I aquesta part del gir s'activa quan els pacients tenen les al·lucinacions deformes.
When images are formed, a higher part of the visual cortex is involved, in the temporal lobe. And in particular, one area of the temporal lobe is called the fusiform gyrus. And it's known that if people have damage in the fusiform gyrus, they may lose the ability to recognize faces. But if there's an abnormal activity in the fusiform gyrus, they may hallucinate faces, and this is exactly what you find in some of these people. There is an area in the anterior part of this gyrus where teeth and eyes are represented, and that part of the gyrus is activated when people get the deformed hallucinations.
Hi ha una altra part del cervell que està especialment activada quan veiem dibuixos animats. S'activa quan reconeixem els dibuixos, quan dibuixem, i quan els al·lucinem. Es molt interessant que tot sigui tan específic. Hi ha altres parts del cervell que estan implicades específicament en el reconeixement i l'al·lucinació d'edificis i paisatges.
There is another part of the brain which is especially activated when one sees cartoons. It's activated when one recognizes cartoons, when one draws cartoons and when one hallucinates them. It's very interesting that that should be specific. There are other parts of the brain which are specifically involved with the recognition and hallucination of buildings and landscapes. Around 1970, it was found that there were not only parts of the brain,
Cap al 1970 es va descobrir que no només són parts concretes del cervell, sinó cèl·lules concretes. Les "cèl·lules facials" es van descobrir cap al 1970. Ara sabem que hi ha centenars d'altres tipus de cèl·lules. que poden arribar a ser molt i molt específiques. Pot ser que tinguem no tan sols cèl·lules "de cotxes", sinó cèl·lules "d'Aston Martin". (Rialles) He vist un Aston Martin aquest matí. N'havia de parlar. I ara el tinc per aquí dins. (Rialles)
but particular cells. "Face cells" were discovered around 1970. And now we know that there are hundreds of other sorts of cells, which can be very, very specific. So you may not only have "car" cells, you may have "Aston Martin" cells. (Laughter) I saw an Aston Martin this morning. I had to bring it in. (Laughter) And now it's in there, somewhere. So --
Ara, en aquest nivell, en l'anomenat còrtex temporal inferior, només hi ha imatges visuals o imaginacions o fragments. És només en els nivells superiors que entren en joc els altres sentits i hi ha connexions amb la memòria i les emocions. En la síndrome de Charles Bonnet no s'entra en els nivells superiors. Estàs en aquests nivells del còrtex visual inferior on hi ha milers i desenes de milers i milions d'imatges, o d'imaginacions, o fragments d'imaginacions, totes codificades neurològicament, en cèl·lules concretes o agrupacions de cèl·lules.
(Laughter) now, at this level, in what's called the inferotemporal cortex, there are only visual images, or figments or fragments. It's only at higher levels that the other senses join in and there are connections with memory and emotion. And in the Charles Bonnet syndrome, you don't go to those higher levels. You're in these levels of inferior visual cortex, where you have thousands and tens of thousands and millions of images, or figments or fragmentary figments, all neurally encoded in particular cells or small clusters of cells.
Normalment són totes part del flux integrat de percepció, o imaginació. I no en som conscients. Només si un té disminunció visual, o ceguesa, s'interromp el procés. I en lloc de tenir percepció normal, tenim estímuls anàrquics, convulsius, o emissions, de totes aquestes cèl·lules visuals del còrtex temporal inferior. I de sobte, veus una cara. De sobte veus un cotxe. De sobte això, i de sobte allò altre. La ment fa el que pot per ordenar i donar alguna coherència a tot plegat. Però no se'n surt gaire.
Normally, these are all part of the integrated stream of perception, or imagination, and one is not conscious of them. It is only if one is visually impaired or blind that the process is interrupted. And instead of getting normal perception, you're getting an anarchic, convulsive stimulation, or release, of all of these visual cells in the inferotemporal cortex. So, suddenly, you see a face. Suddenly, you see a car. Suddenly this and suddenly that. The mind does its best to organize and to give some sort of coherence to this, but not terribly successfully.
Quan es va descriure per primer cop, es creia que es podien interpretar com a somnis. Però de fet la gent diu: "No reconec les persones. No formo cap associació". "La granota Gustau no significa res per a mi." No anem enlloc si suposem que són com somnis.
When these were first described, it was thought that they could be interpreted like dreams. But, in fact, people say, "I don't recognize the people. I can't form any associations. Kermit means nothing to me." You don't get anywhere, thinking of them as dreams.
Bé, he dit més o menys el que volia dir. Només em falta recapitular i dir que això és habitual. Penseu en el nombre de persones cegues. Hi deu haver centenars de milers de persones cegues amb aquestes al·lucinacions, però tenen massa por per parlar-ne. Són coses que s'han de fer saber als pacients, als metges, al gran públic. Per acabar, crec que són infinitament interessants, i valuoses, perquè ens aporten detalls de com funciona el cervell.
Well, I've more or less said what I wanted. I think I just want to recapitulate and say this is common. Think of the number of blind people. There must be hundreds of thousands of blind people who have these hallucinations but are too scared to mention them. So this sort of thing needs to be brought into notice, for patients, for doctors, for the public. Finally, I think they are infinitely interesting and valuable, for giving one some insight as to how the brain works.
Charles Bonnet va dir, fa 250 anys -- pensava en aquestes al·lucinacions i es preguntava com, segons ell, el teatre de la ment podia ser generat per la maquinària del cervell. Ara, 250 anys més tard crec que en comencem a albirar el funcionament. Moltes gràcies.
Charles Bonnet said, 250 years ago -- he wondered how, thinking of these hallucinations, how, as he put it, the theater of the mind could be generated by the machinery of the brain. Now, 250 years later, I think we're beginning to glimpse how this is done. Thanks very much.
(Aplaudiments)
(Applause)
Chris Anderson: Ha estat magnífic. Moltes gràcies. Ens parla d'aquestes coses amb tanta saviesa i empatia pels seus pacients. Ha experimentat alguna de les síndromes de què escriu?
Chris Anderson: That was superb. Thank you so much. You speak about these things with so much insight and empathy for your patients. Have you yourself experienced any of the syndromes you write about?
Oliver Sacks: Em temia que m'ho preguntaries. (Rialles) Bé, sí, molts. I de fet tinc una mica de disminució visual. Sóc cec d'un ull, i no hi veig massa amb l'altre. I tinc les al·lucinacions geomètriques. Però això i prou.
Oliver Sacks: I was afraid you would ask that. (Laughter) Well, yeah, a lot of them. And, actually, I'm a little visually impaired myself. I'm blind in one eye and not terribly good in the other. And I see the geometrical hallucinations. But they stop there.
C.A.: I no l'inquieten? Perquè entén d'on surten. No es preocupa?
CA: And they don't disturb you? Because you understand what's doing it, it doesn't make you worried?
O.S.: No em molesten pas més que els acúfens. No en faig cas. De tant en tant m'interessen. En tinc ple de dibuixos als meus quaderns. He anat a fer-me una ressonància per veure com el meu còrtex visual s'obre pas. I quan veig els hexàgons i coses complexes, que també tinc, en migranyes oftàlmiques, em pregunto si tothom ho veu igual, i si certes coses com l'art rupestre, o l'art ornamental poden haver derivat una mica d'aquí.
OS: Well, they don't disturb me any more than my tinnitus, which I ignore. They occasionally interest me, and I have many pictures of them in my notebooks. I've gone and had an fMRI myself, to see how my visual cortex is ticking over. And when I see all these hexagons and complex things, which I also have, in visual migraine, I wonder whether everyone sees things like this and whether things like cave art or ornamental art may have been derived from them a bit.
C.A.: Ha estat una xerrada realment fascinant. Moltes gràcies per compartir-ho amb nosaltres.
CA: That was an utterly, utterly fascinating talk. Thank you so much for sharing.
O.S.: Gràcies. Gràcies. (Aplaudiments)
OS: Thank you. Thank you. (Applause)