Pat Mitchell: You have brought us images from the Yemen Times. And take us through those, and introduce us to another Yemen.
你今天帶來葉門時報中的一些照片 藉由報中的照片 帶領我們認識不一樣的葉門
Nadia Al-Sakkaf: Well, I'm glad to be here. And I would like to share with you all some of the pictures that are happening today in Yemen. This picture shows a revolution started by women, and it shows women and men leading a mixed protest. The other picture is the popularity of the real need for change. So many people are there. The intensity of the upspring. This picture shows that the revolution has allowed opportunities for training, for education. These women are learning about first aid and their rights according to the constitution.
我很高興來到這裡 我想跟各位分享 照片中一些發生在葉門的真實故事 這張照片中是一場革命 由女人所發起 但是在示威遊行的隊伍中 有男人也有女人 另一張照片裡 是渴求改變的一群人 你可以看到人真的很多 抗爭有多激烈 這張照片能看到 革命帶給人們受訓的機會 以及受教育的機會 這群女人正在急救訓練 這是憲法所賦予她們的權力
I love this picture. I just wanted to show that over 60 percent of the Yemeni population are 15 years and below. And they were excluded from decision-making, and now they are in the forefront of the news, raising the flag. English -- you will see, this is jeans and tights, and an English expression -- the ability to share with the world what is going on in our own country. And expression also, it has brought talents. Yemenis are using cartoons and art, paintings, comics, to tell the world and each other about what's going on.
我很喜歡這張照片 我想用這張照片說明 六成以上的葉門人 雖然年齡在十五歲以下 不能參予國家政策的決策過程 他們卻站在新聞最前線 高舉國旗 英文標語 你們看,這是件牛仔褲 和一件緊身衣 上面寫了英文標語 展現他們有能力向世界訴說 我們國內正在發生什麼 同時也展現了 他們的聰明才智 葉門人用卡通, 藝術, 畫作、漫畫 告訴全世界以及彼此 葉門的故事
Obviously, there's always the dark side of it. And this is just one of the less-gruesome pictures of the revolution and the cost that we have to pay. The solidarity of millions of Yemenis across the country just demanding the one thing. And finally, lots of people are saying that Yemen's revolution is going to break the country. Is it going to be so many different countries? Is it going to be another Somalia? But we want to tell the world that, no, under the one flag, we'll still remain as Yemeni people.
誠然,任何事情都有其黑暗面 這算是革命照片中 血腥程度較輕的一張照片 也是我們所付出的代價 眾志成城 上百萬來自國內四方的葉門人 為革命齊聚一堂 最後,很多人在說 葉門的革命 將會撕裂這個國家 葉門會分裂成許多國家嗎? 會成為另一個索馬利亞嗎? 我們要告訴世界,答案是「不」 仰望同一面國旗,我們以後仍然是葉門人
PM: Thank you for those images, Nadia. And they do, in many ways, tell a different story than the story of Yemen, the one that is often in the news. And yet, you yourself defy all those characterizations. So let's talk about the personal story for a moment. Your father is murdered. The Yemen Times already has a strong reputation in Yemen as an independent English language newspaper. How did you then make the decision and assume the responsibilities of running a newspaper, especially in such times of conflict?
謝謝你帶來的照片,納迪亞 這些各式各樣的照片 確實呈現了葉門不同的面貌 而非那一個 我們常在新聞裡看到的葉門 說到妳自身 就很與眾不同 讓我們談一下妳的個人故事 妳父親遭人殺害 他所創立的葉門時報 當時已經在葉門享有盛名 作為獨立發行的英文報紙 妳當初是如何 決定扛起重任 經營這一家報社 尤其還是在如此動盪的時期?
NA: Well, let me first warn you that I'm not the traditional Yemeni girl. I've guessed you've already noticed this by now. (Laughter) In Yemen, most women are veiled and they are sitting behind doors and not very much part of the public life. But there's so much potential. I wish I could show you my Yemen. I wish you could see Yemen through my eyes. Then you would know that there's so much to it. And I was privileged because I was born into a family, my father would always encourage the boys and the girls. He would say we are equal. And he was such an extraordinary man. And even my mother -- I owe it to my family. A story: I studied in India. And in my third year, I started becoming confused because I was Yemeni, but I was also mixing up with a lot of my friends in college. And I went back home and I said, "Daddy, I don't know who I am. I'm not a Yemeni; I'm not an Indian." And he said, "You are the bridge." And that is something I will keep in my heart forever. So since then I've been the bridge, and a lot of people have walked over me.
我要先說 我可不是傳統的葉門女孩 這點我想各位早就發現了 (笑聲) 在葉門,一般女人都戴著面紗 隱身在門後 對公眾事務參與不多 但她們潛力無窮 我希望能讓各位瞭解我認識的葉門 希望各位透過我的眼 看看我眼中的葉門 你們就會明白 葉門絕對不只如此 我很幸運出生在一個特別的家庭 我父親總是鼓勵我們兄弟姊妹 男女平等 他是個了不起的人 我母親也是--這一切都歸功於我的家庭 我要從故事的開始說起 我在印度求學 大三時,我開始感到困惑 因為我是葉門人 卻和印度人一起生活 我的一群大學朋友都是印度人 於是回到家後我說 「爸爸,我不知道我是誰」 「我不是葉門人,卻也不是印度人」 他說:「你是我們和他們之間的橋梁』 這件事我永生難忘 從那時起,我把自己當作橋梁 許多人從我身上走過
PM: I don't think so. (Laughter)
不是這樣吧
NA: But it just helps tell that some people are change agents in the society. And when I became editor-in-chief after my brother actually -- my father passed away in 1999, and then my brother until 2005 -- and everybody was betting that I will not be able to do it. "What's this young girl coming in and showing off because it's her family business," or something. It was very hard at first. I didn't want to clash with people. But with all due respect to all the men, and the older men especially, they did not want me around. It was very hard, you know, to impose my authority. But a woman's got to do what a woman's got to do.
但這個說法確實說明 有些人正是社會中 推動改變的齒輪 在我當上主編的時候 在我哥過世之後 我父親於1999年去世 然後我哥於2005年過世 期間眾人都打賭我做不到 「這女孩要來賣弄什麼?」 「就因為那是她家的企業」之類的 一開始真的很辛苦 我不想與人衝突 可是,我必須很恭敬地說 尤其是那些男人,特別是年長的男人 他們都不想和我工作 當時要建立我的權威 真的非常難 但我一個女人該怎麼做,就要怎麼做
(Applause)
(掌聲)
And in the first year, I had to fire half of the men. (Laughter) (Applause) Brought in more women. Brought in younger men. And we have a more gender-balanced newsroom today. The other thing is that it's about professionalism. It's about proving who you are and what you can do. And I don't know if I'm going to be boasting now, but in 2006 alone, we won three international awards. One of them is the IPI Free Media Pioneer Award. So that was the answer to all the Yemeni people. And I want to score a point here, because my husband is in the room over there. If you could please stand up, [unclear]. He has been very supportive of me.
第一年 我革職了一半男性職員 (笑聲) (掌聲) 吸收更多女職員 吸收年輕的男性 編輯部現在的男女比例平衡多了 我要做的另一件事是建立「專業」 就是要證明你是誰、你能做什麼 現在聽來可能有點像在吹噓 不過光是在2006年 我們就贏得了三座國際大獎 包括國際新聞協會頒發的 自由媒體先鋒獎 這個獎正是我們 獻給所有葉門人的答案 在此我想特別講一件事 因為我先生在那邊 你可以站起來嗎? 他一直很支持我
(Applause)
(掌聲)
PM: And we should point out that he works with you as well at the paper. But in assuming this responsibility and going about it as you have, you have become a bridge between an older and traditional society and the one that you are now creating at the paper. And so along with changing who worked there, you must have come up against another positioning that we always run into, in particular with women, and it has to do with outside image, dress, the veiled woman. So how have you dealt with this on a personal level as well as the women who worked for you?
我們要指出一點 就是你先生也協助你發行報紙 就妳所扛下責任這一點 以及妳做事的方式 妳已成為了一座橋梁 連結傳統舊社會 以及用報紙所開創出來的新社會 你在人事上代舊換新時 一定再次進行了人事調動 如此免不了碰到問題,特別在女性工作上 也要注意外界觀感 服裝,女人的面紗等問題 妳是如何處理這些問題? 妳自己個人又是怎麼做? 以及那些為妳工作的女性職員?
NA: As you know, the image of a lot of Yemeni women is a lot of black and covered, veiled women. And this is true. And a lot of it is because women are not able, are not free, to show their face to their self. It's a lot of traditional imposing coming by authority figures such as the men, the grandparents and so on. And it's economic empowerment and the ability for a woman to say, "I am as much contributing to this family, or more, than you are." And the more empowered the women become, the more they are able to remove the veil, for example, or to drive their own car or to have a job or to be able to travel.
如妳所知 一般人對葉門女人的印象是穿一身黑 遮住全身,臉蓋面紗 這是事實 多半是因為 女人不被允許 自由以面示人 權威人士對女性加諸 許多傳統禮教 包括男人和祖父母等 改變要靠經濟賦權 並給予女人權利說出 「我對家庭的貢獻等同, 甚至超過你們」 女人能擁有的權力越多 就越能夠摘去面紗,例如 開自己的車, 有自己的工作,自己去旅行
So the other face of Yemen is actually one that lies behind the veil, and it's economic empowerment mostly that allows the woman to just uncover it. And I have done this throughout my work. I've tried to encourage young girls. We started with, you can take it off in the office. And then after that, you can take it off on assignments. Because I didn't believe a journalist can be a journalist with -- how can you talk to people if you have your face covered? -- and so on; it's just a movement.
因此,葉門的另一面 事實上 隱身在面紗之後 大多得靠經濟賦權 才能讓女人拋去面紗 我用我的工作做到了 這是我一直鼓勵年輕女孩這樣做 首先第一步,妳能在辦公室內取下面紗 後來,連採訪時也能取下 因為我不認為作為記者, 記者難道能遮著臉和人講話? 就這樣一步一步前進
And I am a role model in Yemen. A lot of people look up to me. A lot of young girls look up to me. And I need to prove to them that, yes, you can still be married, you can still be a mother, and you can still be respected within the society, but at the same time, that doesn't mean you [should] just be one of the crowd. You can be yourself and have your face.
我就是葉門女人的典範 很多人尊敬我 很多年輕女孩景仰我 我要向她們證明:妳還是能結婚 妳還是能成為母親 妳也一樣能在社會上受到尊重 同時間 這不代表妳應該和別人一樣 妳可以做你自己,以面示人
PM: But by putting yourself personally out there -- both projecting a different image of Yemeni women, but also what you have made possible for the women who work at the paper -- has this put you in personal danger?
妳以自身為例 既賦予葉門女人 新的面貌 同時讓女人在報社工作 成為可能 這是否曾危害妳的個人安全?
NA: Well the Yemen Times, across 20 years, has been through so much. We've suffered prosecution; the paper was closed down more than three times. It's an independent newspaper, but tell that to the people in charge. They think that if there's anything against them, then we are being an opposition newspaper. And very, very difficult times. Some of my reporters were arrested. We had some court cases. My father was assassinated. Today, we are in a much better situation. We've created the credibility. And in times of revolution or change like today, it is very important for independent media to have a voice. It's very important for you to go to YemenTimes.com, and it's very important to listen to our voice.
葉門時報過去20年來 經歷了大風大浪 我們曾遭受控告 報社遭關閉超過三次 就算我們說我們是獨立報社 對掌權的人這樣講 他們認為只要對他們不利 我們就是反對派的報社 那時候真的很難熬 我的一些記者被逮捕 我們要跑法院 我父親被暗殺 我們現在好多了 我們已經建立了威信 每當面臨革命,或是像今天這樣的改變 獨立媒體能夠發聲非常重要 重要在於 各位能上YemenTimes.com的網站 重要在於 能聽見我們自己的聲音
And this is probably something I'm going to share with you in Western media probably -- and how there's a lot of stereotypes -- thinking of Yemen in one single frame: this is what Yemen is all about. And that's not fair. It's not fair for me; it's not fair for my country. A lot of reporters come to Yemen and they want to write a story on Al-Qaeda or terrorism. And I just wanted to share with you: there's one reporter that came. He wanted to do a documentary on what his editors wanted. And he ended up writing about a story that even surprised me -- hip hop -- that there are young Yemeni men who express themselves through dancing and puchu puchu. (Laughter) That thing. (PM: Rap. Break dancing.) Yeah, break dancing. I'm not so old. I'm just not in touch.
這些就是 我想和你們分享的 西方媒體 可能會有很多刻板印象 用單一想法來看葉門 認為葉門就是如此 而這不公平 對我,對我的國家都不公平 很多記者到葉門 是來寫蓋達組織和恐怖行動的報導 我想和你們分享的是 有一個記者來葉門 是想要做記錄片報導 是他的編輯要他做的 他最後寫了一篇連我都驚豔的報導 關於嘻哈 葉門年輕人 表達自己的方式 是跳舞和puchu puchu (笑聲) 饒舌和地板舞 是啊,地板舞 我沒那麼老 只是不常接觸這些
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
(Applause)
(掌聲)
PM: Yes, you are. Actually, that's a documentary that's available online; the video's online.
是啊 其實那支紀錄片 網路上看得到,影片被上傳到網路
NA: ShaketheDust.org.
網址是ShaketheDust.org
PM: "Shake the Dust." (NA: "Shake the Dust.")
"Shake the Dust"
PM: ShaketheDust.org. And it definitely does give a different image of Yemen. You spoke about the responsibility of the press. And certainly, when we look at the ways in which we have separated ourselves from others and we've created fear and danger, often from lack of knowledge, lack of real understanding, how do you see the way that the Western press in particular is covering this and all other stories out of the region, but in particular, in your country?
ShaketheDust.org 它絕對呈現了葉門的不同風貌 你剛談到新聞媒體的責任 確實,當我們檢視 自身是如何區隔異己 我們發現這樣帶來了恐懼 也帶來危險 這麼做通常是基於無知 及缺少真實體會 妳怎麼看媒體 尤其是西方媒體 書寫別國新聞的方式 尤其,怎麼寫妳的國家?
NA: Well there is a saying that says, "You fear what you don't know, and you hate what you fear." So it's about the lack of research, basically. It's almost, "Do your homework," -- some involvement. And you cannot do parachute reporting -- just jump into a country for two days and think that you've done your homework and a story. So I wish that the world would know my Yemen, my country, my people. I am an example, and there are others like me. We may not be that many, but if we are promoted as a good, positive example, there will be others -- men and women -- who can eventually bridge the gap -- again, coming to the bridge -- between Yemen and the world and telling first about recognition and then about communication and compassion.
俗話說得好 「未知帶來恐懼」 「恐懼帶來憎恨」 基本上他們缺少實地考察 幾乎都是「交作業」心態 來報導 你不能趕著截稿匆匆就筆 在一個國家待兩天 就覺得作業做完了,報導寫好了 因此我希望 這個世界能認識我的葉門 我的國家和人民 我是一個例子,也有別人和我一樣 我們或許人還不夠多 但如果我們能精進自己 成為好的、正向的例子 就會有越來越多男男女女 最終能消除代溝 我再次強調,一旦上了橋 就能將葉門和全世界接軌 首先 彼此認識 而後溝通 有同理心
I think Yemen is going to be in a very bad situation in the next two or three years. It's natural. But after the two years, which is a price we are willing to pay, we are going to stand up again on our feet, but in the new Yemen with a younger and more empowered people -- democratic.
我認為葉門接下來 處境會非常艱困 未來兩三年間都是如此 這很自然 可是兩年後,只要我們願意付出代價 我們就能再一次用自己的雙腳站立 在新的葉門 我們會有更年輕,更強壯的人民 和民主
(Applause)
(掌聲)
PM: Nadia, I think you've just given us a very different view of Yemen. And certainly you yourself and what you do have given us a view of the future that we will embrace and be grateful for. And the very best of luck to you. YemenTimes.com.
納迪亞,我想你剛給了我們 一個非常特別的葉門觀點 你自己和你做的事 確實讓我們看到了未來 我們將擁抱那個未來 並感激地接受它 祝妳好運 葉門時報網站:YemenTimes.com
NA: On Twitter also.
推特上也看得到
PM: So you are plugged in.
妳有跟上流行嘛
(Applause)
(掌聲)