Pat Mitchell: You have brought us images from the Yemen Times. And take us through those, and introduce us to another Yemen.
Pat Mitchell (以下简称PM) : 你从《也门时报》给我们带来了照片。 给我们讲讲这些照片, 给我们介绍一个不一样的也门。
Nadia Al-Sakkaf: Well, I'm glad to be here. And I would like to share with you all some of the pictures that are happening today in Yemen. This picture shows a revolution started by women, and it shows women and men leading a mixed protest. The other picture is the popularity of the real need for change. So many people are there. The intensity of the upspring. This picture shows that the revolution has allowed opportunities for training, for education. These women are learning about first aid and their rights according to the constitution.
Nadia Al-Sakkaf (以下简称NA) : 好的。我很高兴能够来到这儿。 我很愿意很你们所有人分享 一些纪录也门今天的照片。 这幅照片展示的是一场 由女性发起的革命。 照片中女性和男性共同 领导一次抗议。 另一幅图片 展示了人们真切要求变革的强烈呼声。 许多人都在那儿。 抗议非常激烈。 这幅图片显示,革命已经帮助 也门女性取得一些 教育、培训的机会。 这些女性在学习急救知识, 以及宪法赋予她们的权利。
I love this picture. I just wanted to show that over 60 percent of the Yemeni population are 15 years and below. And they were excluded from decision-making, and now they are in the forefront of the news, raising the flag. English -- you will see, this is jeans and tights, and an English expression -- the ability to share with the world what is going on in our own country. And expression also, it has brought talents. Yemenis are using cartoons and art, paintings, comics, to tell the world and each other about what's going on.
我喜欢这张照片。 我只是想展示, 也门60%以上的人口 都在15岁及15岁以下。 过去他们与决策制定无缘, 现在他们高举着旗子, 走在新闻的前沿。 英语—— 你可以看到,照片中的人穿着牛仔裤 和紧身衣, 身上贴着英文标语—— 也门人能够和全世界分享 在自己的国家都发生些什么。 一些标语也 让有才能的人崭露头角。 也门人通过卡通、 艺术、 绘画和漫画, 向世界及同胞们讲述 发生在也门的事。
Obviously, there's always the dark side of it. And this is just one of the less-gruesome pictures of the revolution and the cost that we have to pay. The solidarity of millions of Yemenis across the country just demanding the one thing. And finally, lots of people are saying that Yemen's revolution is going to break the country. Is it going to be so many different countries? Is it going to be another Somalia? But we want to tell the world that, no, under the one flag, we'll still remain as Yemeni people.
当然,凡事都有两面。 一些照片显示了我们为革命必须付出的代价。 这张照片只是其中 不那么可怕的一张。 来自也门各地的成千上万的也门人 团结一致, 只为革命。 最后这张。许多人都说 也门的革命 会把这个国家拖垮的。 也门会不会分裂成几个国家? 会不会成为索马里第二? 但我们想要告诉世界,不, 在也门的国旗下,我们永远是也门人。
PM: Thank you for those images, Nadia. And they do, in many ways, tell a different story than the story of Yemen, the one that is often in the news. And yet, you yourself defy all those characterizations. So let's talk about the personal story for a moment. Your father is murdered. The Yemen Times already has a strong reputation in Yemen as an independent English language newspaper. How did you then make the decision and assume the responsibilities of running a newspaper, especially in such times of conflict?
PM: 谢谢你带给我们这些图片,Naida。 它们确实,在许多方面, 都给我们讲述了一个不一样的也门, 一个和我们经常在新闻里看到的 不一样的也门。 事实上,你自己 就摒弃了各种传统特征。 我们就来谈谈你的个人故事。 你的父亲是被杀害的。 作为一份独立的英文报纸, 《也门时报》在也门 已经树立了良好的声誉。 你当时是怎样 做出接手报纸的 决定的, 特别是在当时冲突严重的时期?
NA: Well, let me first warn you that I'm not the traditional Yemeni girl. I've guessed you've already noticed this by now. (Laughter) In Yemen, most women are veiled and they are sitting behind doors and not very much part of the public life. But there's so much potential. I wish I could show you my Yemen. I wish you could see Yemen through my eyes. Then you would know that there's so much to it. And I was privileged because I was born into a family, my father would always encourage the boys and the girls. He would say we are equal. And he was such an extraordinary man. And even my mother -- I owe it to my family. A story: I studied in India. And in my third year, I started becoming confused because I was Yemeni, but I was also mixing up with a lot of my friends in college. And I went back home and I said, "Daddy, I don't know who I am. I'm not a Yemeni; I'm not an Indian." And he said, "You are the bridge." And that is something I will keep in my heart forever. So since then I've been the bridge, and a lot of people have walked over me.
NA: 首先我必须说 我不是传统型的也门女孩儿。 我猜你们已经注意到了。 (笑) 在也门,大多数女性都戴着面纱, 坐在门后, 无缘公众生活。 但这其中潜力无穷。 我希望我能给你展示我的也门。 我希望你能够 通过我的眼睛来看也门。 你会有 许许多多的发现。 我很幸运,因为在我出生的家庭, 父亲总是不停激励男孩女孩们。 他说我们是平等的。 他是如此非凡的一个人。 还有我的母亲——我的故事—— 归功于我的家人。 我在印度上的大学。 在我大三的时候,我开始感到非常困惑, 因为我是也门人, 但我也总和许多 大学朋友在一起。 回家后我说, “爸爸,我不知道我是谁。 我不是也门人,我也不是印度人。” 他回答说,“你是连接两者的桥梁。” 我会永远记住他的话。 从此以后我就是桥梁, 许多人都从我身上走过。
PM: I don't think so. (Laughter)
PM: 我可不这么想。
NA: But it just helps tell that some people are change agents in the society. And when I became editor-in-chief after my brother actually -- my father passed away in 1999, and then my brother until 2005 -- and everybody was betting that I will not be able to do it. "What's this young girl coming in and showing off because it's her family business," or something. It was very hard at first. I didn't want to clash with people. But with all due respect to all the men, and the older men especially, they did not want me around. It was very hard, you know, to impose my authority. But a woman's got to do what a woman's got to do.
NA: 这帮助人们了解 一些人在社会中 是变革的推动者。 当我成为主编的时候, 事实上是在我哥哥之后—— 我父亲在1999年去世, 之后到2005年一直是我哥哥作主编—— 所有人都打赌说,我做不下来。 “这个年轻的女孩儿想干吗?跑过来显摆, 就因为这是她家的报纸,”之类的话。 刚开始非常困难。 我不想和别人发生冲突。 但是恕我直言, 男人们,特别是年长的男人, 他们不想看到我。 你知道,要树立我的权威 非常得困难。 但是一个女人必须要做一个女人需要做的事。
(Applause)
(掌声)
And in the first year, I had to fire half of the men. (Laughter) (Applause) Brought in more women. Brought in younger men. And we have a more gender-balanced newsroom today. The other thing is that it's about professionalism. It's about proving who you are and what you can do. And I don't know if I'm going to be boasting now, but in 2006 alone, we won three international awards. One of them is the IPI Free Media Pioneer Award. So that was the answer to all the Yemeni people. And I want to score a point here, because my husband is in the room over there. If you could please stand up, [unclear]. He has been very supportive of me.
第一年中, 我不得不解雇了报社里一半的男人。 (笑) (掌声) 招聘更多的女人。 招进更多更年轻的男人。 现在新闻室里有了更加平衡的男女比例。 我还需要做到专业。 你需要证明你是谁,你能做什么。 我不知道这算不算是吹嘘, 但仅在2006年一年中, 我们就获得了三项国际奖项。 其中之一是国际新闻学会的 自由媒体先锋奖。 这是我们对所有也门人 的回答。 在这儿我想打个岔, 因为我的丈夫就坐在会场那边。 请你站起来好么。[不清晰] 他一直非常支持我。
(Applause)
(掌声)
PM: And we should point out that he works with you as well at the paper. But in assuming this responsibility and going about it as you have, you have become a bridge between an older and traditional society and the one that you are now creating at the paper. And so along with changing who worked there, you must have come up against another positioning that we always run into, in particular with women, and it has to do with outside image, dress, the veiled woman. So how have you dealt with this on a personal level as well as the women who worked for you?
PM: 我们应该指出 他也和你一起在报社工作。 通过接手和主编报纸, 就如你已经做了的那样, 你成了沟通社会的桥梁, 连接着一个更为古老的传统社会 和一个你正在报社创造的社会。 在改变报社员工的过程中, 你一定不得不对抗另一个定位。 这个定位我们总会碰到,特别是女性, 它是关于外在的形象、 着装,戴面纱的妇女。 你是如何处理这个问题的, 从个人的角度 以及为你工作的其他女性的角度?
NA: As you know, the image of a lot of Yemeni women is a lot of black and covered, veiled women. And this is true. And a lot of it is because women are not able, are not free, to show their face to their self. It's a lot of traditional imposing coming by authority figures such as the men, the grandparents and so on. And it's economic empowerment and the ability for a woman to say, "I am as much contributing to this family, or more, than you are." And the more empowered the women become, the more they are able to remove the veil, for example, or to drive their own car or to have a job or to be able to travel.
NA: 正如大家所知, 许多也门妇女的形象都是身着黑衣、 佩戴面纱。 这是事实。 很大程度上,这是 因为女性不能够、不被允许 向她们自己展示自己的面孔。 这是来自权威, 比如说男人、祖父母等人的 传统的施压。 如果一个女人能说, “我对这个家庭的贡献和你一样大, 甚至大于你。” 这会在经济上鼓励妇女。 女性得到的激励越大, 她们就越有能力去,比如说,摘掉面纱, 或者自己驾车, 或者工作,或者旅游。
So the other face of Yemen is actually one that lies behind the veil, and it's economic empowerment mostly that allows the woman to just uncover it. And I have done this throughout my work. I've tried to encourage young girls. We started with, you can take it off in the office. And then after that, you can take it off on assignments. Because I didn't believe a journalist can be a journalist with -- how can you talk to people if you have your face covered? -- and so on; it's just a movement.
也门的另一面 其实 藏在面纱之后。 允许女性摘掉面纱, 会在经济上给予她们极大的激励。 在我的工作上我一直在这样做。 我一直鼓励年轻女孩儿们摘掉面纱。 开始我说,在办公室里你们可以不戴面纱。 之后我说,在采访的时候你们也可以不戴面纱。 因为我认为你戴着面纱就不可能作记者—— 你怎么可能遮着脸和别人谈话?—— 等等; 另外
And I am a role model in Yemen. A lot of people look up to me. A lot of young girls look up to me. And I need to prove to them that, yes, you can still be married, you can still be a mother, and you can still be respected within the society, but at the same time, that doesn't mean you [should] just be one of the crowd. You can be yourself and have your face.
在也门我是个榜样。 很多人钦佩我。 很多年轻的女孩儿钦佩我。 我要证明给他们看,你仍然可以结婚, 你仍然能成为一个母亲, 仍然可以在社会上得到尊重, 但与此同时, 这并不意味着你必须与众人一样。 你可以作你自己,你可以展露你的面孔。
PM: But by putting yourself personally out there -- both projecting a different image of Yemeni women, but also what you have made possible for the women who work at the paper -- has this put you in personal danger?
PM: 但是你这样身先士卒—— 不仅展示了一个不一样的 也门女性的形象, 还给在报纸工作的女性 创造了许多可能—— 会不会把自己置于危险之中?
NA: Well the Yemen Times, across 20 years, has been through so much. We've suffered prosecution; the paper was closed down more than three times. It's an independent newspaper, but tell that to the people in charge. They think that if there's anything against them, then we are being an opposition newspaper. And very, very difficult times. Some of my reporters were arrested. We had some court cases. My father was assassinated. Today, we are in a much better situation. We've created the credibility. And in times of revolution or change like today, it is very important for independent media to have a voice. It's very important for you to go to YemenTimes.com, and it's very important to listen to our voice.
NA: 20年来《也门时报》 经历了许多跌宕起伏。 我们遭遇过迫害; 报社三次被迫关闭。 《也门时报》是份独立报纸, 可是当权者可不这么想。 他们觉得如果我们刊登了反对他们的东西, 我们就是反对派报纸。 我们还经历过非常、非常艰难的时期。 我们的一些记者被逮捕过。 我们打过数次官司。 我的父亲被刺杀。 现在我们的处境比过去好多了。 我们树立了很好的信誉。 在像现在这样的革命或者变革时期, 独立媒体要勇于报导,这点非常重要。 你们访问《也门时报》的网站,YemenTimes.com, 这非常重要。 你们倾听我们的声音, 这非常重要。
And this is probably something I'm going to share with you in Western media probably -- and how there's a lot of stereotypes -- thinking of Yemen in one single frame: this is what Yemen is all about. And that's not fair. It's not fair for me; it's not fair for my country. A lot of reporters come to Yemen and they want to write a story on Al-Qaeda or terrorism. And I just wanted to share with you: there's one reporter that came. He wanted to do a documentary on what his editors wanted. And he ended up writing about a story that even surprised me -- hip hop -- that there are young Yemeni men who express themselves through dancing and puchu puchu. (Laughter) That thing. (PM: Rap. Break dancing.) Yeah, break dancing. I'm not so old. I'm just not in touch.
有一点 我想和大家说的是 恐怕在西方媒体—— 有很多成见—— 用一个模子看也门, 认为这就是也门的全部。 这不公平。 这对我不公平,对我的国家不公平。 很多记者来到也门 一门心思地想报导“基地”组织或者恐怖主义。 我想给大家讲个真人真事: 有个记者到了也门。 他本来打算 按他的编辑希望的那样做纪录片。 但他后来的纪录片内容让我都大吃一惊—— 嘻哈—— 一些也门年轻男性 通过跳舞和“puchu puchu(嘻哈的节奏)” 来表现自己。 (笑) 那一类东西。(PM: 说唱。霹雳舞。) 对,霹雳舞。 我没有老掉牙。 我只是与外界隔绝。
(Laughter)
(笑)
(Applause)
(掌声)
PM: Yes, you are. Actually, that's a documentary that's available online; the video's online.
PM: 对,是这样。 事实上,我们可以在网络上 找到这个纪录片;这个片子被传到网上了。
NA: ShaketheDust.org.
NA: 网址是:ShaketheDust.org。
PM: "Shake the Dust." (NA: "Shake the Dust.")
PM: 网站名字的英文意思是“掸去灰尘”。(NA: “掸去灰尘”。)
PM: ShaketheDust.org. And it definitely does give a different image of Yemen. You spoke about the responsibility of the press. And certainly, when we look at the ways in which we have separated ourselves from others and we've created fear and danger, often from lack of knowledge, lack of real understanding, how do you see the way that the Western press in particular is covering this and all other stories out of the region, but in particular, in your country?
PM: ShaketheDust.org。 它确实展示了一个不一样的也门形象。 之前你提到了媒体的责任。 诚然,我们看到 我们把自己和其他人分隔开, 我们制造恐惧 和危险, 往往因为缺乏信息, 缺乏真正的了解, 那你是怎么看待 西方媒体在报道这件事上 以及所有其他发生在这个地区的事情的方式, 特别是发生在你的国家的事?
NA: Well there is a saying that says, "You fear what you don't know, and you hate what you fear." So it's about the lack of research, basically. It's almost, "Do your homework," -- some involvement. And you cannot do parachute reporting -- just jump into a country for two days and think that you've done your homework and a story. So I wish that the world would know my Yemen, my country, my people. I am an example, and there are others like me. We may not be that many, but if we are promoted as a good, positive example, there will be others -- men and women -- who can eventually bridge the gap -- again, coming to the bridge -- between Yemen and the world and telling first about recognition and then about communication and compassion.
NA: 有句谚语说: “未知带来恐惧, 恐惧带来厌恨。” 这基本上说的就是缺乏考证。 基本上是,“要做功课。”—— 要投入进去。 你不能只做跳伞报道—— 空投到一个国家,呆上两天, 就以为你的功课做好了,你的报道写成了。 所以我希望 世界可以了解我的也门, 我的国家,我的人民。 我就是个例子,还有其他像我一样的人。 我们这样的人也许不是很多, 但如果我们作为好的、积极的例子 被倡导, 就会有其他人——既有男人也有女人—— 最终成为连接—— 我又要说到桥了—— 也门和世界之间的桥梁。 首先是 关于承认, 然后是关于沟通 和同情。
I think Yemen is going to be in a very bad situation in the next two or three years. It's natural. But after the two years, which is a price we are willing to pay, we are going to stand up again on our feet, but in the new Yemen with a younger and more empowered people -- democratic.
我认为, 未来的两、三年, 也门将处境十分艰难。 这是很正常的。 这是我们愿意付出的代价。但是两年之后, 我们将重新站起, 站立于一个新的也门, 一个充满了活泼有力的年轻人的也门, 一个民主的也门。
(Applause)
(掌声)
PM: Nadia, I think you've just given us a very different view of Yemen. And certainly you yourself and what you do have given us a view of the future that we will embrace and be grateful for. And the very best of luck to you. YemenTimes.com.
PM: Nadia,我觉得你刚才给了我们 关于也门非常不同的看法。 毫无疑问,你自己和你的事业 带给了我们对未来的展望。 我们对这样的未来充满期待, 和感激。 祝你好运。 YemenTimes.com。
NA: On Twitter also.
NA: 《也门时报》还使用推特。
PM: So you are plugged in.
PM: 你和外界连接畅通。
(Applause)
(掌声)