I grew up in Europe, and World War II caught me when I was between seven and 10 years old. And I realized how few of the grown-ups that I knew were able to withstand the tragedies that the war visited on them -- how few of them could even resemble a normal, contented, satisfied, happy life once their job, their home, their security was destroyed by the war. So I became interested in understanding what contributed to a life that was worth living. And I tried, as a child, as a teenager, to read philosophy and to get involved in art and religion and many other ways that I could see as a possible answer to that question. And finally I ended up encountering psychology by chance.
我在歐洲長大,二次大戰發生在我 七到十歲的時候 我意識到,在我認識的成人中,幾乎沒有人 能夠承受戰爭給他們帶來的悲劇 幾乎沒有人,能夠重建一個正常、滿意 滿足的快樂生活,在他們的工作、家、安全感 被戰爭摧毀過後 於是我開始感興趣,在理解 到底是什麽,會使人們感到他們的人生沒有白過 小時候,青少年時,我試圖透過研讀哲學 參與藝術、宗教以及許多其他方式 來尋求這個問題的可能答案 最後,我在一個偶然的機會接觸了心理學
I was at a ski resort in Switzerland without any money to actually enjoy myself, because the snow had melted and I didn't have money to go to a movie. But I found that on the -- I read in the newspapers that there was to be a presentation by someone in a place that I'd seen in the center of Zurich, and it was about flying saucers [that] he was going to talk. And I thought, well, since I can't go to the movies, at least I will go for free to listen to flying saucers. And the man who talked at that evening lecture was very interesting. Instead of talking about little green men, he talked about how the psyche of the Europeans had been traumatized by the war, and now they're projecting flying saucers into the sky. He talked about how the mandalas of ancient Hindu religion were kind of projected into the sky as an attempt to regain some sense of order after the chaos of war. And this seemed very interesting to me. And I started reading his books after that lecture. And that was Carl Jung, whose name or work I had no idea about.
其實,當時我在瑞士的一個滑雪勝地,沒有半毛錢 去好好享受,因為雪已經融化了,而且那邊 我沒錢去看電影,但我發現 我在報紙上讀到,有一個演講 不知道誰辦的,在我看過的地方,蘇黎世的中心 與飛碟有關,是他要講的主題 於是我想想,嗯,既然我不能去看電影 至少我可以去聽免費的飛碟演講 那天晚上的演講者非常有趣 其實,他講的不是關於小綠人 他談到了歐洲人的心靈 是如何被二戰摧殘,現在他們投射 飛碟到天空中,有點像是 他談到古印度教的曼陀羅 是如何被投射到天空,做為一種試著 恢復秩序的感覺,在混亂的戰爭後 這讓我感到很有興趣 於是,在這演講之後,我開始讀他的書 那個人是Carl Jung,他的名字和成就,我一無所知
Then I came to this country to study psychology and I started trying to understand the roots of happiness. This is a typical result that many people have presented, and there are many variations on it. But this, for instance, shows that about 30 percent of the people surveyed in the United States since 1956 say that their life is very happy. And that hasn't changed at all. Whereas the personal income, on a scale that has been held constant to accommodate for inflation, has more than doubled, almost tripled, in that period. But you find essentially the same results, namely, that after a certain basic point -- which corresponds more or less to just a few 1,000 dollars above the minimum poverty level -- increases in material well-being don't seem to affect how happy people are. In fact, you can find that the lack of basic resources, material resources, contributes to unhappiness, but the increase in material resources does not increase happiness.
然後我來到這個國家,開始研究心理學 我開始嘗試理解,那些幸福的根源 這是一個典型的研究結果,很多人都展示過的 有許多不同的變化 但是,舉這張來說,顯示了有30% 參與調查的美國人,自1956起 認為他們的生活非常幸福 這個數據一點也沒改變 然而,個人收入 在經過了通貨膨脹的調整之後 成長到原來的兩倍多,快到三倍,在這段期間內 但你會發現基本上相同的結果 那就是,在收入水準差不到達到 比起最低的貧窮階層多幾千塊後 物質的增加,似乎並不能影響人們感到幸福的程度 然後,事實上你可以發現,缺乏基本的資源 物質,會造成不幸福 但增加物質並不能增加幸福
So my research has been focused more on -- after finding out these things that actually corresponded to my own experience, I tried to understand: where -- in everyday life, in our normal experience -- do we feel really happy? And to start those studies about 40 years ago, I began to look at creative people -- first artists and scientists, and so forth -- trying to understand what made them feel that it was worth essentially spending their life doing things for which many of them didn't expect either fame or fortune, but which made their life meaningful and worth doing.
所以我的研究更加專注於 在發現這些事情,實際上與 我自己的經驗相符後,我現在試圖理解 在日常生活中,我們的一般經驗裡 如何能讓我們感到真正的快樂 而這個研究的開始在 約40年前,我開始研究那些有創造力的人們 先是藝術家和科學家等等,我試圖理解 是什麼讓他們覺得值得花生命去做一些事 不期待從這些事中得到名聲或財富 但這會使他們感到生命是有意義且值得的
This was one of the leading composers of American music back in the '70s. And the interview was 40 pages long. But this little excerpt is a very good summary of what he was saying during the interview. And it describes how he feels when composing is going well. And he says by describing it as an ecstatic state.
這是美國70年代樂壇的一位頂級的作曲家 整個面談有40頁長 但這段小小的摘錄是 是整個面談很好的總結 裡面描述了他在作曲順利時的感覺 他把它描述成一種ecstatic(入神)的狀態
Now, "ecstasy" in Greek meant simply to stand to the side of something. And then it became essentially an analogy for a mental state where you feel that you are not doing your ordinary everyday routines. So ecstasy is essentially a stepping into an alternative reality. And it's interesting, if you think about it, how, when we think about the civilizations that we look up to as having been pinnacles of human achievement -- whether it's China, Greece, the Hindu civilization, or the Mayas, or Egyptians -- what we know about them is really about their ecstasies, not about their everyday life. We know the temples they built, where people could come to experience a different reality. We know about the circuses, the arenas, the theaters. These are the remains of civilizations and they are the places that people went to experience life in a more concentrated, more ordered form.
現在ecstasy在希臘文中代表 就只是站在某個東西旁邊 然後它的含義演變成描述一種精神狀態 一種你感覺不是在做日常活動的精神狀態 所以,ecstasy這個詞,是指進入了另一種現實 有趣的是,若你想想那些我們常提到 曾經達到巔峰的人類文明時 無論是中國,希臘,印度等文明 或馬雅,埃及,我們所知道的 其實是他們所入神的事物,而不是他們的日常生活 我們知道他們建的神殿,他們可以在這些地方 體驗另一種現實 我們知道像競技場 圓形舞台,劇場 這些是那些文明的遺產,人們去這些地方 體驗生命,用一種更集中,更有秩序的方式
Now, this man doesn't need to go to a place like this, which is also -- this place, this arena, which is built like a Greek amphitheatre, is a place for ecstasy also. We are participating in a reality that is different from that of the everyday life that we're used to. But this man doesn't need to go there. He needs just a piece of paper where he can put down little marks, and as he does that, he can imagine sounds that had not existed before in that particular combination. So once he gets to that point of beginning to create, like Jennifer did in her improvisation, a new reality -- that is, a moment of ecstasy -- he enters that different reality. Now he says also that this is so intense an experience that it feels almost as if he didn't exist. And that sounds like a kind of a romantic exaggeration. But actually, our nervous system is incapable of processing more than about 110 bits of information per second. And in order to hear me and understand what I'm saying, you need to process about 60 bits per second. That's why you can't hear more than two people. You can't understand more than two people talking to you.
現在,這個人不需要去這樣的地方 這些地方,競技場, 像古希臘露天劇場,也就是讓人們入神的地方 我們在另一種現實中進行活動 這個現實與我們熟悉的日常生活不同 但是這個人不需要去那裡 他只需要一張紙,可以在上面寫些小符號 他這樣做時,他可以想像出音樂 以從未有過的方式,譜出獨特的組合 所以,一旦他進入開始創作的狀態 就像Jennifer進行她的即興創作一樣 一個新的現實出現了,這就是入神的時刻 他進入了另一種現實 他也說這種體驗如此強烈 以至於他幾乎感覺不到自己的存在 這聽起來有點太誇張浪漫 但實際上,我們神經系統處理訊息的能力 是無法超過每秒110位元的訊息 若想聽到且理解我所說的話 你們需要每秒處理大約60位元的訊息 這就是爲什麽你不能同時聽超過兩個人講話 你無法瞭解兩個以上的人同時跟你講話
Well, when you are really involved in this completely engaging process of creating something new, as this man is, he doesn't have enough attention left over to monitor how his body feels, or his problems at home. He can't feel even that he's hungry or tired. His body disappears, his identity disappears from his consciousness, because he doesn't have enough attention, like none of us do, to really do well something that requires a lot of concentration, and at the same time to feel that he exists. So existence is temporarily suspended. And he says that his hand seems to be moving by itself. Now, I could look at my hand for two weeks, and I wouldn't feel any awe or wonder, because I can't compose. (Laughter)
當你真正的、完全地投入到 創作新事物的過程中,像這個人一樣 他就沒有足夠的注意力來注意 自己身體的感覺,或他家裡的問題 他甚至感覺不到飢餓或疲勞 他的身體消失了 他的身份從意識裡消失了 因為他沒有足夠的注意力,像我們任何人都沒有 把一件需要非常專注的事真正做好 同時又感覺到自己的存在 所以存在感暫時消失了 他說他的手似乎在自己動作 嗯,我可以花兩個周看自己的手,而我不會有 任何驚訝或神奇的感覺,因為我不會作曲
So what it's telling you here is that obviously this automatic, spontaneous process that he's describing can only happen to someone who is very well trained and who has developed technique. And it has become a kind of a truism in the study of creativity that you can't be creating anything with less than 10 years of technical-knowledge immersion in a particular field. Whether it's mathematics or music, it takes that long to be able to begin to change something in a way that it's better than what was there before. Now, when that happens, he says the music just flows out. And because all of these people I started interviewing -- this was an interview which is over 30 years old -- so many of the people described this as a spontaneous flow that I called this type of experience the "flow experience." And it happens in different realms.
這裡想告訴你們的是 在採訪的其他部份也有,就是,顯然他所描述的 這種自動運轉的過程只會發生在 那些接受過良好訓練且有成熟技巧的人身上 在關於創造性的研究中,一條顯而易見的是 你不可能創造任何新東西,在投入少於10年 的技術知識,在某一特定領域裡 無論它是數學還是音樂,都得花那麼長 的時間才能做出一些改變,這些改變 在某種程度上比之前的狀況要好 那麼,當這種情況發生時 他說音樂就那麼自己流出來了 由於所有這些我採訪過的人們 剛才這個採訪是超過30年前進行 他們當中許多人把這個體驗描述成一種自發的流動 所以我稱之為「心流」體驗 在不同的領域都會發生
For instance, a poet describes it in this form. This is by a student of mine who interviewed some of the leading writers and poets in the United States. And it describes the same effortless, spontaneous feeling that you get when you enter into this ecstatic state. This poet describes it as opening a door that floats in the sky -- a very similar description to what Albert Einstein gave as to how he imagined the forces of relativity, when he was struggling with trying to understand how it worked. But it happens in other activities. For instance, this is another student of mine, Susan Jackson from Australia, who did work with some of the leading athletes in the world. And you see here in this description of an Olympic skater, the same essential description of the phenomenology of the inner state of the person. You don't think; it goes automatically, if you merge yourself with the music, and so forth.
舉例來說,一個詩人是這麼描述它的 這是由我的一個學生做的 他採訪了美國一些最優秀的作家和詩人 他們敘述了一種相同,不費力,自發的感覺 發生在當你進入這種入神的狀態 這個詩人描述它就像,打開一扇在天空飄的門 這跟Albert Einstein的描述很相似 在他想像相對論中的力時 他努力試著理解相對論的運作 在其他活動中也會發生這種情況 舉例來說,這是我的另一個學生 來自澳洲的Susan Jackson 她訪問了一些世界頂尖的運動員 而這是一位奧運溜冰選手描述 本質上相同的現象 在每個人心中的狀態 你不認為這狀態會自動發生 當你投入音樂中,等等時候
It happens also, actually, in the most recent book I wrote, called "Good Business," where I interviewed some of the CEOs who had been nominated by their peers as being both very successful and very ethical, very socially responsible. You see that these people define success as something that helps others and at the same time makes you feel happy as you are working at it. And like all of these successful and responsible CEOs say, you can't have just one of these things be successful if you want a meaningful and successful job. Anita Roddick is another one of these CEOs we interviewed. She is the founder of Body Shop, the natural cosmetics king. It's kind of a passion that comes from doing the best and having flow while you're working.
我在我最近寫的書中談過這個現象 叫《Good Business》在書中我採訪了一些CEO 他們被同業們選為既成功 又有道德感,社會責任感的典範 你發現這些人將成功定義為 在可以幫助到別人的同時 又能給你帶來快樂,在你工作的時候 而且如同這些成功且有責任感的CEO所說 只有其中一項是不能算成功的 如果你想要一份有意義且成功的工作的話 Anita Roddick是另一位我們採訪過的執行長 她是Body Shop的創辦人,化妝品 有點像天然化妝品之王 這是一種熱情,來自於 在工作中做到最好並且有著心流
This is an interesting little quote from Masaru Ibuka, who was at that time starting out Sony without any money, without a product -- they didn't have a product, they didn't have anything, but they had an idea. And the idea he had was to establish a place of work where engineers can feel the joy of technological innovation, be aware of their mission to society and work to their heart's content. I couldn't improve on this as a good example of how flow enters the workplace.
這段有趣的摘錄來自Masaru Ibuka 當時他的Sony剛起步,沒什麽錢 沒有產品,連一項產品也沒有 他們什麽也沒有,但他們有一個想法 他的想法是建立一個工作環境,讓工程師 可以感覺到技術創新的喜悅 意識到對社會的責任並且隨心所欲地去做 我無法提出比這個更好的例子了 在關於心流是如何進入職場領域
Now, when we do studies -- we have, with other colleagues around the world, done over 8,000 interviews of people -- from Dominican monks, to blind nuns, to Himalayan climbers, to Navajo shepherds -- who enjoy their work. And regardless of the culture, regardless of education or whatever, there are these seven conditions that seem to be there when a person is in flow. There's this focus that, once it becomes intense, leads to a sense of ecstasy, a sense of clarity: you know exactly what you want to do from one moment to the other; you get immediate feedback. You know that what you need to do is possible to do, even though difficult, and sense of time disappears, you forget yourself, you feel part of something larger. And once the conditions are present, what you are doing becomes worth doing for its own sake.
在我們做研究時 我們與世界各地的同事一起, 對超過8000人進行了訪談,從多明尼加的和尚 盲人尼姑,喜馬拉雅登山家,到Navajo的牧羊人 這些人都非常享受他們的工作 不管是什麽文化背景 教育程度或其他,這裡有這七個條件 似乎都會出現在一個人進入心流的時候 先是注意力變得集中 導向一種入神的感覺,一種清晰的感覺 你精確的知道你每一刻想要做什麽 你得到即時的回饋 你知道你所要做的事情 是有可能做到的,儘管是有難度的 還有時間感消失,你忘了自己 你感覺自己融入某種更大的東西 一旦這些條件都出現時 你正在做的事,本身就成為值得做的理由
In our studies, we represent the everyday life of people in this simple scheme. And we can measure this very precisely, actually, because we give people electronic pagers that go off 10 times a day, and whenever they go off you say what you're doing, how you feel, where you are, what you're thinking about. And two things that we measure is the amount of challenge people experience at that moment and the amount of skill that they feel they have at that moment. So for each person we can establish an average, which is the center of the diagram. That would be your mean level of challenge and skill, which will be different from that of anybody else. But you have a kind of a set point there, which would be in the middle.
在研究中,我們將日常生活以這個簡單的圖表示 事實上,我們可以很精確的測量它 因為我們發給人們的電子呼叫器,每天響10次 當它們響起,你就說出你在做什麼,你感覺如何 你在哪裡,你在想什麽 我們所要測量的兩個指標,是當時挑戰的大小 他們正在經歷的,以及對技巧高低 的自我認知,在那個當下 所以對每個人,我們可以建立一個平均值 就在這個分析圖中間 那就是你的挑戰與技巧的中間值 這個每個人都不同 每個人會有一個設定點,在這圖裡面
If we know what that set point is, we can predict fairly accurately when you will be in flow, and it will be when your challenges are higher than average and skills are higher than average. And you may be doing things very differently from other people, but for everyone that flow channel, that area there, will be when you are doing what you really like to do -- play the piano, be with your best friend, perhaps work, if work is what provides flow for you. And then the other areas become less and less positive.
如果我們知道這個點在哪裡 我們就可以比較精確的預測出你何時會進入心流 也就是在當你面臨的挑戰超過平均值 而且擁有的技巧程度也超過平均值時 你做的事可能與其他人非常不一樣 但對每個人來說,心流通道,這個區域這裡 會出現在你做你真正喜歡的事情上 也許是彈鋼琴,跟最好的朋友在一起,也可能是工作 如果工作能為帶來你心流的話 其他區域的狀態就那麼沒有那麼積極了
Arousal is still good because you are over-challenged there. Your skills are not quite as high as they should be, but you can move into flow fairly easily by just developing a little more skill. So, arousal is the area where most people learn from, because that's where they're pushed beyond their comfort zone and to enter that -- going back to flow -- then they develop higher skills. Control is also a good place to be, because there you feel comfortable, but not very excited. It's not very challenging any more. And if you want to enter flow from control, you have to increase the challenges. So those two are ideal and complementary areas from which flow is easy to go into.
Arousal(激發)是不錯的,因為你面對的挑戰太大 你的技巧不足以應付 但你可以比較容易地由此進入心流 只需要再增加一些技巧 所以,激發狀態中是多數人可以進一步學習的區域 因為這裡是他們被推離開舒適區的地方 若要進入心流狀態 他們就得發展更高的技巧 Control(控制)也是一個很好的區域 因為你在這裡感覺舒服,但不是很興奮 並不是很有挑戰性 如果你想由控制進入心流 你就得提高挑戰的難度 所以這兩區是理想且互補的區域 由這兩處都可以比較容易進入心流
The other combinations of challenge and skill become progressively less optimal. Relaxation is fine -- you still feel OK. Boredom begins to be very aversive and apathy becomes very negative: you don't feel that you're doing anything, you don't use your skills, there's no challenge. Unfortunately, a lot of people's experience is in apathy. The largest single contributor to that experience is watching television; the next one is being in the bathroom, sitting. Even though sometimes watching television about seven to eight percent of the time is in flow, but that's when you choose a program you really want to watch and you get feedback from it.
其他挑戰和技巧程度的組合 就逐漸得不那麼理想 Relaxation(放鬆)是好的,你仍然感覺良好 Boredom(無聊)就變得非常令人討厭了 而apathy(冷漠)則是非常消極的 你對所做的事無動於衷 你不會用到你的技能,也沒有挑戰可言 不幸的是,大多數人的體驗都處在冷漠 這體驗的最大主因 是看電視,其次是在廁所裡坐著 不過,就算是看電視,有時候 也有約7~8%的時間,能進入心流 但那是當你選擇真正想看的節目時 並且從中得到回饋
So the question we are trying to address -- and I'm way over time -- is how to put more and more of everyday life in that flow channel. And that is the kind of challenge that we're trying to understand. And some of you obviously know how to do that spontaneously without any advice, but unfortunately a lot of people don't. And that's what our mandate is, in a way, to do.
所以我們想要解決的問題是, 我已經超過許多時間了 如何讓更多的日常生活時間進入心流通道 這也是個我們試圖瞭解的挑戰 在座之中有些人,顯然知道如何自然地做到這點 無需任何建議,但不幸的是,很多人無法做到 而我們的任務就是幫助他們找到方法達成
Thank you.
謝謝
(Applause)
(掌聲)