Chris Anderson: So I guess what we're going to do is we're going to talk about your life, and using some pictures that you shared with me. And I think we should start right here with this one. Okay, now who is this?
Kris Anderson: Pretpostavljam da ćemo pričati o tvom životu, koristeći neke fotografije koje si mi poslala. Mislim da bi trebalo da počnemo ovom. U redu, ko je ovo?
Martine Rothblatt: This is me with our oldest son Eli. He was about age five. This is taken in Nigeria right after having taken the Washington, D.C. bar exam.
Martina Rotblat: To sam ja, sa našim najstarijim sinom, Ilajem. Imao je oko pet godina. Ovo je snimljeno u Nigeriji odmah posle polaganja pravosudnog ispita u Vašingtonu.
CA: Okay. But this doesn't really look like a Martine.
KA: OK, ali ovo baš i ne izgleda kao Martina.
MR: Right. That was myself as a male, the way I was brought up. Before I transitioned from male to female and Martin to Martine.
MR: Tako je. Tada sam bila muško, tako sam odrasla. Pre nego što sam prešla iz muškarca u ženu, iz Martina u Martinu.
CA: You were brought up Martin Rothblatt.
KA: Odrasla si kao Martin Rotblat.
MR: Correct.
MR: Tačno.
CA: And about a year after this picture, you married a beautiful woman. Was this love at first sight? What happened there?
KA: I oko godinu dana posle ove slike oženila si se jednom divnom ženom. Da li je to bila ljubav na prvi pogled? Kako se to desilo?
MR: It was love at the first sight. I saw Bina at a discotheque in Los Angeles, and we later began living together, but the moment I saw her, I saw just an aura of energy around her. I asked her to dance. She said she saw an aura of energy around me. I was a single male parent. She was a single female parent. We showed each other our kids' pictures, and we've been happily married for a third of a century now. (Applause)
MR: Bila je ljubav na prvi pogled. Videla sam Binu u jednoj diskoteci u Los Anđelesu, kasnije smo počele da živimo zajedno, ali čim sam je videla, primetila sam auru energije oko nje. Zamolila sam je za ples. Rekla je da je videla auru energije oko mene. Bila sam samohrani otac, ona samohrana majka. Pokazali smo jedno drugom slike naše dece i u srećnom smo braku već trećinu veka. (Aplauz)
CA: And at the time, you were kind of this hotshot entrepreneur, working with satellites. I think you had two successful companies, and then you started addressing this problem of how could you use satellites to revolutionize radio. Tell us about that.
KA: U to vreme si bila važan preduzetnik, radila sa satelitima. Mislim da si imala dve uspešne kompanije, a potom si počela da radiš na problemu korišćenja satelita u revoluciji radija. Reci nam o tome.
MR: Right. I always loved space technology, and satellites, to me, are sort of like the canoes that our ancestors first pushed out into the water. So it was exciting for me to be part of the navigation of the oceans of the sky, and as I developed different types of satellite communication systems, the main thing I did was to launch bigger and more powerful satellites, the consequence of which was that the receiving antennas could be smaller and smaller, and after going through direct television broadcasting, I had the idea that if we could make a more powerful satellite, the receiving dish could be so small that it would just be a section of a parabolic dish, a flat little plate embedded into the roof of an automobile, and it would be possible to have nationwide satellite radio, and that's Sirius XM today.
MR: Da. Uvek sam volela svemirsku tehnologiju i sateliti su, po mom mišljenju, kao kanui koje su naši preci gurnuli u vodu. Bilo mi je zanimljivo da budem deo navigacije okeana na nebu, i kako sam razvijala razne tipove sistema satelitske komunikacije, bilo je najvažnije da lansiram veće i moćnije satelite, a posledica toga bi bile manje antene koje primaju signal, i posle direktnog televizijskog emitovanja, ideja mi je bila da ako bismo napravili moćniji satelit, prijemna antena bi bila toliko mala, da bi bila sam deo paraboličnog tanjira, ravna pločica ugrađena na krov automobila, i bilo bi moguće imati satelitski radio širom zemlje, i to je danas Sirius XM.
CA: Wow. So who here has used Sirius?
KA: Sjajno. Ko ovde koristi Sirius?
(Applause)
(Aplauz)
MR: Thank you for your monthly subscriptions.
MR: Hvala vam na mesečnim pretplatama.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
CA: So that succeeded despite all predictions at the time. It was a huge commercial success, but soon after this, in the early 1990s, there was this big transition in your life and you became Martine.
KA: To je uspelo, uprkos svim tadašnjim predviđanjima. Doživelo je ogroman komercijalni uspeh, ali ubrzo posle, ranih devedesetih, u tvom životu se desila velika promena i postala si Martina.
MR: Correct. CA: So tell me, how did that happen? MR: It happened in consultation with Bina and our four beautiful children, and I discussed with each of them that I felt my soul was always female, and as a woman, but I was afraid people would laugh at me if I expressed it, so I always kept it bottled up and just showed my male side. And each of them had a different take on this. Bina said, "I love your soul, and whether the outside is Martin and Martine, it doesn't it matter to me, I love your soul." My son said, "If you become a woman, will you still be my father?" And I said, "Yes, I'll always be your father," and I'm still his father today. My youngest daughter did an absolutely brilliant five-year-old thing. She told people, "I love my dad and she loves me." So she had no problem with a gender blending whatsoever.
MR: Tačno. KA: Reci mi, kako se to desilo? MR: Desilo se kroz konsultacije sa Binom i naše četvoro divne dece, razgovarala sam sa svakim od njih da se osećam da je moja duša uvek bila ženska, ali sam se plašila da će mi se ljudi smejati ako je pokažem, pa sam je uvek držala u sebi i pokazivala samo svoju mušku stranu. I svako od njih je imao drugačije viđenje. Bina je rekla: "Ja volim tvoju dušu, i bilo da je spolja Martin ili Martina, meni nije važno, volim tvoju dušu." Moj sin je rekao: "Ako postaneš žena, da li ćeš i dalje biti moj otac?" Rekla sam, naravno, uvek ću biti tvoj otac, i danas sam njegov otac. Moja najmlađa ćerka je uradila najsjajniju stvar petogodišnjakinje. Govorila je ljudima: "Volim mog tatu, i ona voli mene". Uopšte nije imala problem sa stapanjem rodova.
CA: And a couple years after this, you published this book: "The Apartheid of Sex." What was your thesis in this book?
KA: I par godina kasnije, objavila si ovu knjigu: "The Apartheid of Sex." Šta je tvoja teorija u toj knjizi?
MR: My thesis in this book is that there are seven billion people in the world, and actually, seven billion unique ways to express one's gender. And while people may have the genitals of a male or a female, the genitals don't determine your gender or even really your sexual identity. That's just a matter of anatomy and reproductive tracts, and people could choose whatever gender they want if they weren't forced by society into categories of either male or female the way South Africa used to force people into categories of black or white. We know from anthropological science that race is fiction, even though racism is very, very real, and we now know from cultural studies that separate male or female genders is a constructed fiction. The reality is a gender fluidity that crosses the entire continuum from male to female.
MR: Moja teorija je da na svetu ima 7 milijardi ljudi i zapravo, 7 milijardi jedinstvenih načina da se izrazi rod. I ako ljudi možda imaju genitalije muškarca ili žene, genitalije ne određuju vaš rod ili čak zapravo ni vaš seksualni identitet. To je samo stvar anatomije i reproduktivnih organa, a ljudi bi mogli da odaberu koji god žele rod, da ih društvo ne prisiljava u kategorije muškarca ili žene, kao što je Južna Afrika prisiljavala ljude u kategorije crnaca ili belaca. Iz antropologije znamo da je rasa fikcija, iako je rasizam veoma, veoma stvaran, i iz kulturologije znamo da je podela na muški i ženski rod konstruisana. Stvarnost je rodna fluidnost koja pokriva čitav kontinuum od muškog do ženskog.
CA: You yourself don't always feel 100 percent female.
KA: Ti se ne osećaš uvek 100% kao žena.
MR: Correct. I would say in some ways I change my gender about as often as I change my hairstyle.
MR: Tačno. Na neki način menjam rod onoliko često koliko i frizure.
CA: (Laughs) Okay, now, this is your gorgeous daughter, Jenesis. And I guess she was about this age when something pretty terrible happened.
KA: (Smeh) OK, ovo je tvoja prelepa ćerka, Dženesis. Pretpostavljam da je bila ovih godina kada se nešto strašno desilo.
MR: Yes, she was finding herself unable to walk up the stairs in our house to her bedroom, and after several months of doctors, she was diagnosed to have a rare, almost invariably fatal disease called pulmonary arterial hypertension.
MR: Da, odjednom nije mogla da se penje uz stepenice do svoje sobe u našoj kući, i posle nekoliko meseci poseta lekarima, dijagnostikovana joj je retka, skoro sigurno smrtna bolest zvana plućna arterijska hipertenzija.
CA: So how did you respond to that?
KA: Kako ste reagovali na to?
MR: Well, we first tried to get her to the best doctors we could. We ended up at Children's National Medical Center in Washington, D.C. The head of pediatric cardiology told us that he was going to refer her to get a lung transplant, but not to hold out any hope, because there are very few lungs available, especially for children. He said that all people with this illness died, and if any of you have seen the film "Lorenzo's Oil," there's a scene when the protagonist kind of rolls down the stairway crying and bemoaning the fate of his son, and that's exactly how we felt about Jenesis.
MR: Pa, prvo smo pokušali da je odvedemo kod najboljih mogućih lekara. Stigli smo do Nacionalnog dečjeg medicinskog centra u Vašingtonu. Načelnik pedijatrijske kardiologije rekao nam je da će je uputiti na transplantaciju pluća, ali da se ne nadamo mnogo, jer je veoma mali broj pluća dostupan, naročito za decu. Rekao je da su umrli svi koji su oboleli od ove bolesti, i ako je neko od vas gledao film "Lorenzo's Oil", tamo postoji scena gde se glavni lik skotrlja niz stepenice, plačući i kukajući nad sudbinom svog sina, i upravo tako smo se osećali zbog Dženesis.
CA: But you didn't accept that as the limit of what you could do. You started trying to research and see if you could find a cure somehow.
KA: Ali to niste prihvatili kao ograničenje. Počeli ste da istražujete i vidite da li nekako možete da pronađete lek.
MR: Correct. She was in the intensive care ward for weeks at a time, and Bina and I would tag team to stay at the hospital while the other watched the rest of the kids, and when I was in the hospital and she was sleeping, I went to the hospital library. I read every article that I could find on pulmonary hypertension. I had not taken any biology, even in college, so I had to go from a biology textbook to a college-level textbook and then medical textbook and the journal articles, back and forth, and eventually I knew enough to think that it might be possible that somebody could find a cure. So we started a nonprofit foundation. I wrote a description asking people to submit grants and we would pay for medical research. I became an expert on the condition -- doctors said to me, Martine, we really appreciate all the funding you've provided us, but we are not going to be able to find a cure in time to save your daughter. However, there is a medicine that was developed at the Burroughs Wellcome Company that could halt the progression of the disease, but Burroughs Wellcome has just been acquired by Glaxo Wellcome. They made a decision not to develop any medicines for rare and orphan diseases, and maybe you could use your expertise in satellite communications to develop this cure for pulmonary hypertension.
MR: Tako je. Ona je tada nedeljama bila na intenzivnoj nezi, a Bina i ja smo se smenjivali u bolnici, dok je ono drugo čuvalo ostalu decu, a kada sam ja bila u bolnici, a ona spavala, išla sam u bolničku biblioteku. Pročitala sam svaki članak koji sam našla o plućnoj hipertenziji. Nikada nisam učila biologiju, čak ni na fakultetu, pa sam morala da krenem od osnova, sve do fakultetskog nivoa i onda medicinskih knjiga, članaka, napred-nazad, i na kraju sam znala dovoljno da bih mislila da je moguće da neko može da pronađe lek. Osnovali smo neprofitnu fondaciju. Napisala sam opis, tražila od ljudi da podnesu radove, a mi bismo plaćali medicinska istraživanja. Postala sam stručnjak u toj oblasti - lekari su mi rekli, Martina, stvarno cenimo svo finansiranje koje si obezbedila, ali nećemo uspeti da pronađemo lek na vreme da bismo spasili tvoju ćerku. Međutim, postoji jedan lek koji razvija kompanija "Burroughs Wellcome" i koji bi mogao da uspori napredak bolesti, ali tu kompaniju je upravo kupila kompanija "Glaxo Wellcome". Oni su odlučili da ne razvijaju nikakve lekove za retke bolesti, možda možeš da iskoristiš svoju stručnost u satelitskim komunikacijama da razviješ taj lek za plućnu hipertenziju.
CA: So how on earth did you get access to this drug?
KA: Kako si, zaboga, dobila pristup tom leku?
MR: I went to Glaxo Wellcome and after three times being rejected and having the door slammed in my face because they weren't going to out-license the drug to a satellite communications expert, they weren't going to send the drug out to anybody at all, and they thought I didn't have the expertise, finally I was able to persuade a small team of people to work with me and develop enough credibility. I wore down their resistance, and they had no hope this drug would even work, by the way, and they tried to tell me, "You're just wasting your time. We're sorry about your daughter." But finally, for 25,000 dollars and agreement to pay 10 percent of any revenues we might ever get, they agreed to give me worldwide rights to this drug.
MR: Otišla sam u "Glaxo Wellcome" i pošto su me odbili tri puta i zalupili mi vrata pred nosom, jer nisu hteli da daju licencu za lek stručnjaku za satelitske komunikacije, nisu nikome hteli da daju lek, i mislili su da nisam stručna, konačno sam uspela da ubedim mali tim ljudi da rade sa mnom i da razvijem kredibilitet. Slomila sam njihov otpor, a usput, oni se nisu ni nadali da će ovaj lek delovati, pokušavali su da mi kažu: "Samo traćite vreme. Žao nam je zbog vaše ćerke." Ali konačno, za 25.000 dolara i dogovor da platim 10% od bilo kakvih prihoda koje ostvarimo, pristali su da mi daju svetska prava na lek.
CA: And so you put this drug on the market in a really brilliant way, by basically charging what it would take to make the economics work.
KA: Lek si izbacila na tržište na sjajan način, naplaćujući samo toliko da pokriješ troškove.
MR: Oh yes, Chris, but this really wasn't a drug that I ended up -- after I wrote the check for 25,000, and I said, "Okay, where's the medicine for Jenesis?" they said, "Oh, Martine, there's no medicine for Jenesis. This is just something we tried in rats." And they gave me, like, a little plastic Ziploc bag of a small amount of powder. They said, "Don't give it to any human," and they gave me a piece of paper which said it was a patent, and from that, we had to figure out a way to make this medicine. A hundred chemists in the U.S. at the top universities all swore that little patent could never be turned into a medicine. If it was turned into a medicine, it could never be delivered because it had a half-life of only 45 minutes.
MR: O da, Kris, ali to nije taj lek - pošto sam napisala ček na 25.000 dolara, i rekla: "U redu, gde je lek za Dženesis?" oni su rekli: "Oh, Martina, ne postoji lek za Dženesis. Ovo je samo nešto što smo isprobali na pacovima." I dali su mi plastičnu vrećicu sa malom količinom praška. Rekli su: "Nemoj ovo davati ljudima", i dali mi papir koji kaže da je to patent, i od toga je trebalo da shvatimo kako da napravimo ovaj lek. Sto hemičara u SAD-u, sa najboljih univerziteta, zaklelo se da taj mali patent nikad neće moći da postane lek. I ako se pretvori u lek, neće moći da se primeni, jer mu je vreme poluraspada bilo samo 45 minuta.
CA: And yet, a year or two later, you were there with a medicine that worked for Jenesis.
KA: A ipak, godinu-dve kasnije, imala si lek koji je pomogao Dženesis.
MR: Chris, the astonishing thing is that this absolutely worthless piece of powder that had the sparkle of a promise of hope for Jenesis is not only keeping Jenesis and other people alive today, but produces almost a billion and a half dollars a year in revenue.
MR: Kris, izuzetna stvar je da ova potpuno bezvredna količina praška, koja je dala iskru obećanja nade za Dženesis, ne samo da danas održava u životu Dženesis i druge ljude, nego i donosi skoro milijardu ipo dolara zarade godišnje.
(Applause)
(Aplauz)
CA: So here you go. So you took this company public, right? And made an absolute fortune. And how much have you paid Glaxo, by the way, after that 25,000?
KA: Eto. Ti si ovu kompaniju iznela na berzu, zar ne? I stekla ogromno bogatstvo. I koliko si ono platila Glaxu, posle onih 25.000?
MR: Yeah, well, every year we pay them 10 percent of 1.5 billion, 150 million dollars, last year 100 million dollars. It's the best return on investment they ever received. (Laughter)
MR: Da, pa, svake godine im plaćamo 10% od milijardu ipo, 150 miliona dolara, prošle godine 100 miliona dolara. To im je najbolja zarada na investiciju koju su ikada imali. (Smeh)
CA: And the best news of all, I guess, is this.
KA: A najbolja od svih vesti, pretpostavljam, je ovo.
MR: Yes. Jenesis is an absolutely brilliant young lady. She's alive, healthy today at 30. You see me, Bina and Jenesis there. The most amazing thing about Jenesis is that while she could do anything with her life, and believe me, if you grew up your whole life with people in your face saying that you've got a fatal disease, I would probably run to Tahiti and just not want to run into anybody again. But instead she chooses to work in United Therapeutics. She says she wants to do all she can to help other people with orphan diseases get medicines, and today, she's our project leader for all telepresence activities, where she helps digitally unite the entire company to work together to find cures for pulmonary hypertension.
MR: Da, Dženesis je apsolutno predivna mlada dama. Živa je, zdrava, danas ima 30 godina. Tu smo ja, Bina i Dženesis. Ono što je naizuzetnije u vezi s njom, je da je mogla da sa svojim životom uradi bilo šta, i veruj mi, ako odrastaš sa ljudima koji ti u lice govore da patiš od smrtne bolesti, ja bih verovatno otrčala na Tahiti i ne bih volela nikog više da vidim. Umesto toga, ona bira da radi u "United Therapeutics". Kaže da želi da uradi sve što može kako bi pomogla da ljudi koji pate od retkih bolesti dobiju lekove, i danas je ona vođa naših projekata za javne aktivnosti, gde pomaže da se cela kompanija digitalno ujedini i sarađuje na pronalasku lekova za plućnu hipertenziju.
CA: But not everyone who has this disease has been so fortunate. There are still many people dying, and you are tackling that too. How?
KA: Ali nisu svi sa ovom bolešću te sreće. Još uvek mnogi umiru, a vi se i protiv toga borite. Kako?
MR: Exactly, Chris. There's some 3,000 people a year in the United States alone, perhaps 10 times that number worldwide, who continue to die of this illness because the medicines slow down the progression but they don't halt it. The only cure for pulmonary hypertension, pulmonary fibrosis, cystic fibrosis, emphysema, COPD, what Leonard Nimoy just died of, is a lung transplant, but sadly, there are only enough available lungs for 2,000 people in the U.S. a year to get a lung transplant, whereas nearly a half million people a year die of end-stage lung failure. CA: So how can you address that? MR: So I conceptualize the possibility that just like we keep cars and planes and buildings going forever with an unlimited supply of building parts and machine parts, why can't we create an unlimited supply of transplantable organs to keep people living indefinitely, and especially people with lung disease. So we've teamed up with the decoder of the human genome, Craig Venter, and the company he founded with Peter Diamandis, the founder of the X Prize, to genetically modify the pig genome so that the pig's organs will not be rejected by the human body and thereby to create an unlimited supply of transplantable organs. We do this through our company, United Therapeutics.
MR: Tako je, Kris. Samo u SAD-u oko 3000 ljudi godišnje, možda 10 puta toliko na celom svetu, i dalje umire od ove bolesti jer lekovi usporavaju napredak bolesti, ali je ne zaustavljaju. Jedini lek za plućnu hipertenziju i plućnu fibrozu, cističnu fibrozu, emfizem, hroničnu opstruktivnu bolest pluća, od koje je umro Lenard Nimoj, je transplantacija pluća, ali na žalost, pluća su dostupna samo za 2000 ljudi u SAD godišnje, dok skoro pola miliona ljudi godišnje umire od poslednjeg stadijuma plućnih bolesti. KA: Kako možete da utičete na to? MR: Bavim se mogućnošću da, baš kao što večno održavamo automobile, avione i zgrade uz pomoć neograničene količine rezervnih i mašinskih delova, zašto ne napravimo neograničenu količinu organa za transplantaciju kako bi ljudi živeli neograničeno, posebno ljudi sa plućnim bolestima. Udružili smo se sa Kregom Venterom, koji je dekodirao ljudski genom, i sa kompanijom koju je osnovao sa Piterom Diamandisom, osnivačem X nagrade, da genetski modifikujemo genom svinje, kako ljudsko telo ne bi odbacivalo organe svinje, i da tako napravimo neograničenu zalihu organa za transplantaciju. To radimo kroz našu kompaniju, "United Therapeutics".
CA: So you really believe that within, what, a decade, that this shortage of transplantable lungs maybe be cured, through these guys?
KA: Dakle, zaista veruješ da u roku od decenije, ovaj nedostatak organa za transplantaciju može da se reši, pomoću njih?
MR: Absolutely, Chris. I'm as certain of that as I was of the success that we've had with direct television broadcasting, Sirius XM. It's actually not rocket science. It's straightforward engineering away one gene after another. We're so lucky to be born in the time that sequencing genomes is a routine activity, and the brilliant folks at Synthetic Genomics are able to zero in on the pig genome, find exactly the genes that are problematic, and fix them.
MR: Apsolutno, Kris. Sigurna sam u to, koliko sam bila sigurna u uspeh koji smo doživeli sa direktnim TV prenosom, Sirus XM. To u stvari nije nuklearna fizika. To je jednostavno sekvenciranje jednog po jednog gena. Veoma smo srećni da smo rođeni u vreme kad je sekvenciranje genoma rutinska radnja, a izuzetni ljudi u "Synthetic Genomics" mogu da pronađu određeni gen svinje, da nađu problematične gene i poprave ih.
CA: But it's not just bodies that -- though that is amazing. (Applause) It's not just long-lasting bodies that are of interest to you now. It's long-lasting minds. And I think this graph for you says something quite profound. What does this mean?
KA: Ali ne samo tela - mada je to izuzetno. (Aplauz) Tebe ne interesuju samo dugotrajna tela. Nego i dugotrajni umovi. Mislim da ovaj grafik tebi govori nešto veoma važno. Šta ovo znači?
MR: What this graph means, and it comes from Ray Kurzweil, is that the rate of development in computer processing hardware, firmware and software, has been advancing along a curve such that by the 2020s, as we saw in earlier presentations today, there will be information technology that processes information and the world around us at the same rate as a human mind.
MR: Ovo dolazi od Reja Kurcvela, i znači da razvoj računarske obrade, hardvera, softvera, napreduje takvim tempom da će do 2020, kao što smo videli u ranijim govorima, postojati informaciona tehnologija koja obrađuje informacije i svet oko nas istom brzinom kao i ljudski um.
CA: And so that being so, you're actually getting ready for this world by believing that we will soon be able to, what, actually take the contents of our brains and somehow preserve them forever? How do you describe that?
KA: S tom činjenicom u vidu, ti se pripremaš za taj svet, verujući da ćemo uskoro moći - šta, da sadržaj naših umova nekako sačuvamo zauvek? Kako to objašnjavaš?
MR: Well, Chris, what we're working on is creating a situation where people can create a mind file, and a mind file is the collection of their mannerisms, personality, recollection, feelings, beliefs, attitudes and values, everything that we've poured today into Google, into Amazon, into Facebook, and all of this information stored there will be able, in the next couple decades, once software is able to recapitulate consciousness, be able to revive the consciousness which is imminent in our mind file.
MR: Pa, Kris, mi radimo na tome da napravimo situaciju gde ljudi mogu da naprave datoteku uma, a to je kolekcija njihovih osobina, njihove ličnosti, sećanja, osećanja, verovanja, stavova i vrednosti, svega što smo do sada pretočili u Gugl, Amazon, Fejsbuk, i sve te informacije koje se tu nalaze, u narednih par decenija, kada softver bude mogao da sažme svest, moći će da ožive svest koja će uskoro biti u našoj datoteci uma.
CA: Now you're not just messing around with this. You're serious. I mean, who is this?
KA: Ti se ne šališ u vezi s ovim. Ozbiljna si. Ko je ovo?
MR: This is a robot version of my beloved spouse, Bina. And we call her Bina 48. She was programmed by Hanson Robotics out of Texas. There's the centerfold from National Geographic magazine with one of her caregivers, and she roams the web and has hundreds of hours of Bina's mannerisms, personalities. She's kind of like a two-year-old kid, but she says things that blow people away, best expressed by perhaps a New York Times Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Amy Harmon who says her answers are often frustrating, but other times as compelling as those of any flesh person she's interviewed.
MR: To je robotska verzija moje voljene supruge, Bine. Zovemo je Bina 48. Progamirala ju je firma "Hanson Robotics" iz Teksasa. To je duplerica iz magazina Nacionalna geografija sa jednim od njenih čuvara, i ona luta internetom i ima stotine sati Bininih manerizama, ličnosti. Ona je kao dvogodišnje dete, ali govori stvari koje ljude obaraju s nogu, a to je možda najbolje prenela novinarka Njujork Tajmsa, Ejmi Harmon, dobitnica Pulicerove nagrade, koja kaže da njeni odgovori često frustriraju, ali često su i zanimljivi kao odgovori neke žive osobe koju je intervjuisala.
CA: And is your thinking here, part of your hope here, is that this version of Bina can in a sense live on forever, or some future upgrade to this version can live on forever? MR: Yes. Not just Bina, but everybody. You know, it costs us virtually nothing to store our mind files on Facebook, Instagram, what-have-you. Social media is I think one of the most extraordinary inventions of our time, and as apps become available that will allow us to out-Siri Siri, better and better, and develop consciousness operating systems, everybody in the world, billions of people, will be able to develop mind clones of themselves that will have their own life on the web.
KA: Da li razmišljaš i nadaš se da će ova verzija Bine na neki način živeti zauvek, ili će neka buduća bolja verzija moći da živi zauvek? MR: Ne samo Bina, nego svi. Znaš, skoro ništa nas ne košta da pohranimo datoteke svog uma na Fejsbuk, Instagram, šta god. Mislim da su društveni mediji jedan od najizuzetnijih izuma našeg doba, i kako nam postaju dostupne aplikacije koje dozvoljavaju da sve više poboljšamo virtuelne pomoćnike, i razvijamo svesne operativne sisteme, svi na svetu, milijarde ljudi će moći da razviju svoje umne klonove koji će na internetu živeti njihov život.
CA: So the thing is, Martine, that in any normal conversation, this would sound stark-staring mad, but in the context of your life, what you've done, some of the things we've heard this week, the constructed realities that our minds give, I mean, you wouldn't bet against it.
KA: Martina, stvar je u tome da, u bilo kom normalnom razgovoru ovo zvuči potpuno suludo, ali u kontekstu tvog života, onoga što si uradila, nekih stvari koje smo čuli ove nedelje, realnosti koje konstruišu naši umovi, ti se ne bi kladila protiv toga.
MR: Well, I think it's really nothing coming from me. If anything, I'm perhaps a bit of a communicator of activities that are being undertaken by the greatest companies in China, Japan, India, the U.S., Europe. There are tens of millions of people working on writing code that expresses more and more aspects of our human consciousness, and you don't have to be a genius to see that all these threads are going to come together and ultimately create human consciousness, and it's something we'll value. There are so many things to do in this life, and if we could have a simulacrum, a digital doppelgänger of ourselves that helps us process books, do shopping, be our best friends, I believe our mind clones, these digital versions of ourselves, will ultimately be our best friends, and for me personally and Bina personally, we love each other like crazy. Each day, we are always saying, like, "Wow, I love you even more than 30 years ago. And so for us, the prospect of mind clones and regenerated bodies is that our love affair, Chris, can go on forever. And we never get bored of each other. I'm sure we never will.
MR: Mislim da nije značajno kad ja to kažem. Ja samo prenosim aktivnosti koje sprovode sjajne kompanije u Kini, Japanu, SAD, Evropi. Desetine miliona ljudi programiraju kod koji izražava sve više aspekata naše ljudske svesti, i ne morate biti genije da shvatite da će se sve ujediniti i na kraju stvoriti ljudsku svest, a to će svima biti važno. U životu ima toliko stvari, i ako možemo da imamo simulakrum, svog digitalnog dvojnika koji nam pomaže u čitanju knjiga, kupovini, koji je naš najbolji prijatelj, mislim da će naši umni klonovi, naše digitalne verzije na kraju biti naši najbolji prijatelji, i za mene i Binu lično, mi se volimo do ludila. Svaki dan govorimo da se volimo još više nego pre 30 godina. I ideja o klonovima uma i regenerisanim telima, za nas, Kris, znači da naša ljubav može večno da traje. Nikad ne dosadimo jedna drugoj, sigurna sam da nikad nećemo.
CA: I think Bina's here, right? MR: She is, yeah. CA: Would it be too much, I don't know, do we have a handheld mic? Bina, could we invite you to the stage? I just have to ask you one question. Besides, we need to see you.
KA: Verujem da je Bina ovde, zar ne? MR: Jeste. KA: Da li imamo bežični mikrofon? Bina, da li bi došla na scenu? Moram da ti postavim jedno pitanje. Osim toga, moramo da te vidimo.
(Applause)
(Aplauz)
Thank you, thank you. Come and join Martine here. I mean, look, when you got married, if someone had told you that, in a few years time, the man you were marrying would become a woman, and a few years after that, you would become a robot -- (Laughter) -- how has this gone? How has it been?
Hvala, hvala. Pridruži se Martini ovde. Vidi, kad ste se venčale, da ti je neko rekao da će kroz nekoliko godina čovek za koga si se udala postati žena, a da ćeš ti nekoliko godina kasnije postati robot - (Smeh) - kako je to bilo?
Bina Rothblatt: It's been really an exciting journey, and I would have never thought that at the time, but we started making goals and setting those goals and accomplishing things, and before you knew it, we just keep going up and up and we're still not stopping, so it's great.
Bina Rotblat: To je zaista uzbudljiva avantura, i tada to nikad ne bih pomislila, ali počeli smo da postavljamo ciljeve i da ostvarujemo zamisli, i ubrzo smo sve više napredovali a i dalje ne stajemo, što je sjajno.
CA: Martine told me something really beautiful, just actually on Skype before this, which was that he wanted to live for hundreds of years as a mind file, but not if it wasn't with you.
KA: Martina mi je rekla nešto veoma lepo, pre ovoga, preko Skajpa, a to je da je želela da kao umna datoteka živi stotinama godina, ali ne bez tebe.
BR: That's right, we want to do it together. We're cryonicists as well, and we want to wake up together.
BR: Tako je, želimo to da uradimo zajedno. Mi smo i pristalice krionike i želimo da se probudimo zajedno.
CA: So just so as you know, from my point of view, this isn't only one of the most astonishing lives I have heard, it's one of the most astonishing love stories I've ever heard. It's just a delight to have you both here at TED. Thank you so much.
KA: Samo da znate, po mom mišljenju, ovo nije samo jedna od najneverovatnijih životnih priča koju sam čuo, ovo je jedna od najneverovatnijih ljubavnih priča koju sam čuo. Stvarno je uživanje što ste obe ovde na TEDu. Mnogo vam hvala.
MR: Thank you.
MR: Hvala.
(Applause)
(Aplauz)