Pat Mitchell: I know you don't like that "legend" business.
帕特米謝爾: 我知道你不喜歡被稱作「傳奇」
Marian Wright Edelman: I don't.
瑪麗安萊特埃德爾曼:的確
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
PM: Why not, Marian? Because you are somewhat of a legend. You've been doing this for a long time, and you're still there as founder and president.
帕:瑪麗安,為什麼不喜歡? 因為你算是個傳奇 這事你已經做了很久了 你現在還是基金會的創始人和總裁
MWE: Well, because my daddy raised us and my mother raised us to serve, and we are servant-leaders. And it is not about external things or labels, and I feel like the luckiest person in the world having been born at the intersection of great needs and great injustices and great opportunities to change them. So I just feel very grateful that I could serve and make a difference.
瑪:因為我的父母 教我們的就是要服務人 我們是服務型的領導者 這不在於外在的東西或標籤 我覺得我是世界上最幸運的人 我出生在有極大需求 和極大不公的交叉口 且有極大的機會去改變它們 所以,我非常感恩 感謝我可以服務他人 讓事物有所不同
PM: What a beautiful way of saying it.
帕:這樣說真美
(Applause)
(掌聲)
You grew up in the American South, and like all children, a lot of who you became was molded by your parents. Tell me: What did they teach you about movement-building?
你在美國南方長大 和所有的孩子一樣 你會變成什麼樣的人 有很大一部分是由 你的父母塑造而成 說一下
MWE: I had extraordinary parents. I was so lucky. My mother was the best organizer I ever knew. And she always insisted, even back then, on having her own dime. She started her dairy so that she could have her penny, and that sense of independence has certainly been passed on to me. My daddy was a minister, and they were real partners. And my oldest sibling is a sister, I'm the youngest, and there are three boys in between. But I always knew I was as smart as my brothers. I always was a tomboy. I always had the same high aspirations that they had. But most importantly, we were terribly blessed, even though we were growing up in a very segregated small town in South Carolina -- we knew it was wrong. I always knew, from the time I was four years old, that I wasn't going to accept being put into slots. But Daddy and Mama always had the sense that it was not us, it was the outside world, but you have the capacity to grow up to change it, and I began to do that very early on. But most importantly, they were the best role models, because they said: if you see a need, don't ask why somebody doesn't do it. See what you can do.
關於組織運動 他們教了你什麼? 瑪:我有非常出色的父母 我好幸運 我母親是我見過最棒的組織者 即使在當時 她也總是堅持要有自己的錢 她開了她自己的乳品店 自己賺錢 那種獨立感肯定有傳下來給我 我爸爸是牧師 他們是真搭擋 我最年長的手足是我的姐姐 我是家中最小的 上面還有三個哥哥 但我一直都知道 我和我的哥哥們一樣聰明 我一直都很男孩子氣 我一直都跟他們一樣 有很高的志向 但,最重要的是 我們非常有福氣 即使我們成長的地方 是南卡羅蘭那州一個種族隔離 十分嚴重的小鎮 ── 我們知那是錯的 我一直都知道 從四歲起我就知道 我不會接受被放到框框裡 但爸媽一直都有個觀念 問題不在我們 問題不在我們 而在於外面的世界 但你有機會成長 然後去改變它 而我很早就開始這麼做了 但,最重要的是 他們是最好的模範 因為,他們說: 如果你看到有需要的地方 不要問為什麼沒人去幫忙 而要看看你能做什麼
There was no home for the aged in our hometown. And Reverend Reddick, who had what we know now, 50 years later, as Alzheimer's, and he began to wander the streets. And so Daddy and Mama figured out he needed a place to go, so we started a home for the aged. Children had to cook and clean and serve. We didn't like it at the time, but that's how we learned that it was our obligation to take care of those who couldn't take care of themselves. I had 12 foster sisters and brothers. My mother took them in after we left home, and she took them in before we left home. And again, whenever you see a need, you try to fulfill it. God runs, Daddy used to say, a full employment economy.
在我們的家鄉 沒有老人之家 雷迪克牧師得了我們在 五十年後的現在所知的阿茲海默症 他開始在街頭遊盪 我父母認為他需要一個去處 所以我們創立了一個老人之家 孩子們得要煮菜、清理、服務 那時我們並不喜歡做這些 但我們也因此學到 我們有義務去照顧 那些不能照顧自己的人 我有十二位養兄弟姐妹 我母親在我們離家前、 離家後收養了他們 同樣的,當你發現有需要的地方 就試著去成就它 以前爸爸總會說 在上帝主導的經濟中人人都有工作
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
And so if you just follow the need, you will never lack for something to do or a real purpose in life.
所以,你只要跟著需要走 你永遠不會沒事可做 也不缺人生目標
And every issue that the Children's Defense Fund works on today comes out of my childhood in a very personal way. Little Johnny Harrington, who lived three doors down from me, stepped on a nail; he lived with his grandmother, got tetanus, went to the hospital, no tetanus shots, he died. He was 11 years old. I remember that.
今天,兒童保護基金 所處理的每一個議題 都來自我的童年 與我息息相關 住在我家旁邊第三間 房子的小強尼哈林頓 踩到了一根釘子 他和他的祖母同住 他得了破傷風去醫院 那裏卻沒有破傷風針可打 他便死了 他才十一歲 我記得很清楚
An accident in front of our highway, turns out to have been two white truck drivers and a migrant family that happened to be black. We all ran out to help. It was in the front of a church, and the ambulance came, saw that the white truck drivers were not injured, saw the black migrant workers were, turned around and left them. I never forgot that.
在我們家前的公路上發生起意外 發現是有兩名白人卡車司機 還有一個移民家庭 而他們剛好是黑人 我們全都跑去幫忙 那是在教堂前面 救護車來了 看到白人卡車司機沒有受傷 看到黑人移工有受傷 便轉身離開,丟下他們 我永遠不會忘記這件事
And immunizations was one of the first things I worked on at the Children's Defense Fund to make sure that every child gets immunized against preventable diseases. Unequal schools ...
我在兒童保護基金最先 開始的事工之一就是免疫接種 確保每個孩子 對可預防的疾病都有免疫接種 不平等的學校...
(Applause)
(掌聲)
Separate and unequal, hand-me-downs from the white schools. But we always had books in our house. Daddy was a great reader. He used to make me read every night with him. I'd have to sit for 15 or 20 minutes. One day I put a "True Confessions" inside a "Life Magazine" and he asked me to read it out loud. I never read a "True Confessions" again.
隔離且不平等 是從白人學校傳下來的 但我們的家裡都一定有書 爸爸是個很棒的讀者 以前,他會要我 每晚和他一起讀書 我得要讀 15 或 20 分鐘 有一天,我在《生活雜誌》中 夾了一本《真情天外來》 他要我大聲唸出來 我從此再也不讀 《真情天外來》了
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
But they were great readers. We always had books before we had a second pair of shoes, and that was very important. And although we had hand-me-down books for the black schools and hand-me-down everythings, it was a great need. He made it clear that reading was the window to the outside world, and so that was a great gift from them. But the reinforced lesson was that God runs a full employment economy, and that if you just follow the need, you will never lack for a purpose in life, and that has been so for me.
但父母親是很棒的讀者 我們總是先買書 然後才有第二雙鞋子 那非常的重要 雖然我們有黑人學校的二手書 還有各種二手的東西 但我們非常地需要書 他說得很明白 閱讀是通往外面世界的一扇窗 所以,這是他們給我的 一個很棒的禮物 但更深刻教訓則是 上帝主導的經濟中人人有工作 你只要跟著需要走 你永遠不會缺人生目標 對我而言這一向是如此
We had a very segregated small town. I was a rebel from the time I was four or five. I went out to a department store and there was "white" and "black" water signs, but I didn't know that and didn't pay much attention to that, and I was with one of my Sunday school teachers. I drank out of the wrong water fountain, and she jerked me away, and I didn't know what had happened, and then she explained to me about black and white water. I didn't know that, and after that, I went home, took my little wounded psyche to my parents, and told them what had happened, and said, "What's wrong with me?" And they said, "It wasn't much wrong with you. It's what's wrong with the system." And I used to go then secretly and switch water signs everywhere I went.
我們的小鎮種族隔離非常嚴重 我從四或五歲時就很叛逆 我跑出去到一間百貨公司 飲用水上有「白人」 和「黑人」的標誌 但我不知道,也沒有多注意 我和一位主日學校的老師同行 我喝水時用錯了飲水機 她猛力把我拉開 我不知道發生了什麼事 然後她向我解釋 水也有分黑人用的和白人用的 我之前不知道這些 之後我回到家,帶著我那 受傷的小小心靈去找我父母 告訴他們發生了什麼事 並說:「我有什麼問題?」 他們說:「你沒有什麼問題 有問題的是體制」 我後來不論到哪裡 都會偷偷把飲用水的標誌對調
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
And it felt so good.
那感覺真好
(Applause)
(掌聲)
PM: There is no question that this legend is a bit of a rebel, and has been for a long time. So you started your work as an attorney and with the Civil Rights Movement, and you worked with Dr. King on the original Poor People's Campaign. And then you made this decision, 45 years ago, to set up a national advocacy campaign for children. Why did you choose that particular service, to children?
帕:毋庸置疑 這個傳奇的確有點叛逆 且從很久以前就是如此了 你開始了律師的工作 並參與「非裔美國人民權運動」 而你和金恩博士也在 最早的「窮人運動」合作過 接著,四十五年前 你決定組織一個全國性 為孩子發聲的運動 為什麼你特別選定 這樣服務,為孩子?
MWE: Well, because so many of the things that I saw in Mississippi and across the South had to do with children. I saw children with bloated bellies in this country who were close to starvation, who were hungry, who were without clothes, and nobody wanted to believe that there were children who were starving, and that's a slow process. And nobody wanted to listen. Every congressman that would come to Mississippi, I'd say, "Go see," and most of them didn't want to do anything about it. But I saw grinding poverty. The state of Mississippi wanted, during voter registration efforts -- and with outside white kids coming in to help black citizens register to vote -- they wanted everybody to leave the state, so they were trying to starve them out. And they switched from free food commodities to food stamps that cost two dollars. People had no income, and nobody in America wanted to believe that there was anybody in America without any income. Well, I knew hundreds of them, thousands of them. And malnutrition was becoming a big problem.
瑪:嗯,因為我在密西西比州 以及南方各地看到的許多事 都和孩子有關 我在這個國家看過 孩子的腹部膨脹起來 瀕臨餓死 他們很饑餓 他們沒有衣服 而沒有人願意相信 有孩子在挨餓 那是個緩慢的過程 沒有人想要聽 只要有國會議員來到密西西比 我就會說:「去看看」 而他們通常都不想為此做什麼 但我看到完全的貧困 密西西比州想要 ── 那時正在幫選民登記 加上其他州的白人小孩 也來協助黑人公民登記投票 他們想要每個人都離開這個州 他們想讓他們餓死 他們出售政府提供的免費食品 要價二美元的食物券 人們沒有收入 而美國沒有人想要相信 在美國會有人沒有任何收入 我知道數百個、數千個沒收入的人 營養不良已成為一大問題
And so one of these days came Dr. King down on a number of things we were fighting to get the Head Start program -- which the state of Mississippi turned down -- refinanced. And he went into a center that the poor community was running without any help, and he saw a teacher carve up an apple for eight or 10 children, and he had to run out, because he was in tears. He couldn't believe it. But only when Robert Kennedy decided he would come -- I had gone to testify about the Head Start program, because they were attacking. And I asked, please, come and see yourself, and when you come and see, see hungry people and see starving children. And they came, and he brought the press, and that began to get the movement going. But they wanted to push all the poor people to go north and to get away from being voters. And I'm proud of Mike Espy. Even though he lost last night, he'll win one of these days.
有一天,金恩博士到了南部 我們在為一些事抗爭 我們要幫「啟蒙計畫」 ── 一個被州政府拒絕的計畫 再次籌款 他進入一個由貧窮社區 在沒有協助的情況下所經營的中心 他看到一位老師把一個蘋果 切瓣分給 8 到 10 個孩子 他必須要跑到外頭去 因為他已淚流滿面 他無法置信 但當羅伯特甘迺迪決定要來時 我開始為「啟蒙計畫」辯護 因為他們在攻擊它 我說:拜託,請你們自己來看看 當你們來看時 看看饑餓的人 看看餓壞的孩子 他們來了 他帶了媒體來 在那之後 這運動才開始動起來 但他們想要把所有 貧窮的人推到北方去 不要來投票 我為麥克艾斯比感到驕傲 昨晚他雖然輸了 但他總有一天會贏的
(Applause)
(掌聲)
But you wouldn't have seen such grinding poverty, and the outside white kids who'd come in to help register voters in the 1964 Summer Project where we lost those three young men. But once they left, the press left, and there was just massive need, and people were trying to push the poor out. And so, you know, Head Start came, and we applied for it, because the state turned it down. And that's true of a lot of states that don't take Medicaid these days. And we ran the largest Head Start program in the nation, and it changed their lives. They had books that had children who looked like them in it, and we were attacked all over the place.
但,你本來並不會看到 如此完全的貧困 還有其他州的白人小孩 參與 1964 年的「自由之夏」計畫 來協助登記投票 我們當時也失去了三個年輕人 但在他們離開後 媒體也離開了 只剩下非常多 需要幫助的缺口 大家試著要把窮人給推出去 所以,你知道的 「啟蒙計畫」開始實施 我們去申請 因為州政府把它駁回 很多不接受 美國醫療保險的州都是如此 我們做的「啟蒙計畫」 是全國最大的 它改變了他們的生命 他們書裡面的孩子 長的和他們一樣 而我們被攻擊得體無完膚
But the bottom line was that Mississippi gave birth to the Children's Defense Fund in many ways, and it also occurred to me that children and preventive investment, and avoiding costly care and failure and neglect, was a more strategic way to proceed. And so the Children's Defense Fund was born out of the Poor People's Campaign. But it was pretty clear that whatever you called black independent or brown independent was going to have a shrinking constituency. And who can be mad at a two-month-old baby or at a two-year-old toddler? A lot of people can be. They don't want to feed them, neither, from what we've seen.
總之 就許多層面上來說 密西西比州 讓兒童保護基金誕生了 我也出現這樣的想法: 孩子 預防性投資 與避免昂貴的照護、失敗和忽視 才是有助於成功邁進的方法 兒童保護基金 是窮人運動的產物 但很清楚的是 不論你怎麼稱呼 叫黑人獨立也好 叫混血獨立也好 選區將會被縮小 誰會對兩個月大的嬰孩 或兩歲的嬰兒生氣? 很多人會 就我們看 他們誰都不想餵
But it was the right judgment to make. And so out of the privilege of serving as the Poor People's Campaign coordinator for policy for two years, and there were two of them, and it was not a failure, because the seeds of change get planted and have to have people who are scut workers and follow up. And I'm a good scut worker and a persistent person. And you know, as a result, I would say that all those people on food stamps today ought to thank those poor people in the mud in Resurrection City. But it takes a lot of follow-up, detailed work -- and never going away.
但那是對的決定 我有幸在「窮人運動」 擔任兩年的政策協調員 ── 那時我們有有兩位 那運動不是個失敗 因為改變的種子已被種下 它需要有刻苦耐勞人來貫徹到底 我十分的刻苦耐勞 我也是個持之以恆的人 因為這樣 我覺得今天所有領食物券的人 都該感謝那些在復活市奮鬥的窮人 但那需要很多縝密的後續工作 ──
PM: And you've been doing it for 45 years, and you've seen some amazing outcomes. What are you proudest of out of the Children's Defense Fund?
並且永不放棄 帕:你做這事已有45年 你也看過一些美妙的成果 對於兒童保護基金 你最引以為傲的是什麼?
MWE: Well, I think the children now have sort of become a mainstream issue. We have got lots of new laws. Millions of children are getting food. Millions of children are getting a head start. Millions of children are getting Head Start and have gotten a head start, and the Child Health Insurance Program, CHIP, Medicaid expansions for children. We've been trying to reform the child welfare system for decades. We finally got a big breakthrough this year, and it says, be ready with the proposals when somebody's ready to move, and sometimes it takes five years, 10 years, 20 years, but you're there. I've been trying to keep children out of foster care and out of institutions and with their families, with preventive services. That got passed.
瑪:我想兒童在現今 大概已是個主流議題了 我們引進了許多新法條 數百萬的孩子現在有食物吃 數百萬的孩子得受啟蒙 數百萬的孩子接受了「啟蒙計畫」 也有了起跑優勢 還有兒童健保計畫 美國醫療保險也擴及至兒童 我們試著改造兒福系統已有數十年 我們在今年終於有個重大突破 這是「把你的提案準備好 等待有人要開始改變的時刻」 這有時要花上 5 年,10 年 或 20 年,但你做到了 我一直試著不讓孩子 進到寄養和照顧機構中 讓他們可以和家人同住 並提供預防性服務 這提議被通過了
But there are millions of children who have hope, who have access to early childhood. Now, we are not finished, and we are not going to ever feel finished until we end child poverty in the richest nation on earth. It's just ridiculous that we have to be demanding that.
數百萬的孩子有了希望 他們有了早期教育 現在我們還沒有完成 直到兒童貧困不再出現於 這世上最富有的國家為止 我們都永遠都不會覺得結束 這還要我們去要求 實在是可笑
(Applause)
(掌聲)
PM: And there are so many of the problems in spite of the successes, and thank you for going through some of them, Marian -- the Freedom Schools, the generations of children now who have gone through Children's Defense Fund programs. But when you look around the world, in this country, the United States, and in other countries, there are still so many problems. What worries you the most?
帕:儘管有些成功 許多地問題依然存在 瑪麗安,謝謝你為我們走過這一些 自由學校 現在好幾世代的兒童 得以參與兒童保護基金的計畫 但當你看看世界 在這個國家,美國 還有其他的國家裡 還存在著好多問題 什麼使你最擔心?
MWE: What worries me is how irresponsible we adults in power have been in passing on a healthier earth. And it worries me when I read the "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists" and see now that we are two minutes from midnight, and that's gotten closer. We have put our future and our children's future and safety at risk in a world that is still too much governed by violence. We must end that. We must stop investing in war and start investing in the young and in peace, and we are really so far away from doing that.
瑪:在把更健康的世界 交給下一代這事上 我們有能力的大人 不負責任的態度令我擔心 當我讀《原子科學家公報》 然後看到我們再兩過分鐘 就要到午夜,我便很擔心 這又更近了 在這個被過多 暴力統治的世界 我們拿我們孩子的未來 和安全當賭注 我們得終結這事 我們得停止在戰爭上投資 轉而投資年輕世代與和平 我們離那一步還好遠
(Applause)
(掌聲)
And I don't want my grandchildren to have to fight these battles all over again, and so I get more radical. The older I get, the more radical I get, because there are just some things that we as adults have to do for the next generations. And I looked at the sacrifices of Mrs. Hamer and all those people in Mississippi who risked their lives to give us a better life. But the United States has got to come to grips with its failure to invest in its children, and it's the Achilles' heel of this nation. How can you be one of the biggest economies in the world and you let 13.2 million children go live in poverty, and you let children go homeless when you've got the means to do it?
我不想讓我的孫子女 還得再次為這些事來抗爭 所以我變得更激進 我越老越激進 因為有些事是我們大人 得為下一代做的 當我看到海默女士的犧牲 還有那些在密西西比州 為了要給我們更好的生活 而冒自己生命的人 美國要為未能投資 自己的兒童這事來努力 這是我們國家的致命傷 你身為全世界 數一數二有錢的國家 怎麼會讓 1300 萬的孩童 活在貧困之中 讓孩童無家可歸 而其實,你是有辦法解決的
We've got to rethink who we are as a people, be an example for the world. There should be no poverty. In fact, we want to say we're going to end poverty in the world. Just start at home. And we've made real progress, but it's such hard work, and it's going to be our Achilles' heel. We should stop giving more tax cuts, sorry folks, to billionaires rather than to babies and their health care. We should get our priorities straight.
我們得重新思考身為 這個國家人民的意義 成為世界的榜樣 貧窮不該存在 其實我們要說 我們要終結世上的貧窮 就從美國開始 我們已有十足的進展 但那實在很艱難 這將是我們的弱點 我們應該停止給百萬富豪減稅 大夥兒抱歉啦 我們應該把錢放在嬰孩 和他們的健康照護上 我們該把先後次序搞清楚
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That's not right, and it's not cost-effective. And the key to this country is going to be an educated child population, and yet we've got so many children who cannot read or write at the most basic levels. We're investing in the wrong things, and I wouldn't be upset about anybody having one billion, 10 billion [US dollars], if there were no hungry children, if there were no homeless children, if there were no uneducated children. And so it's really about what does it mean to live and lead this life. Why were we put on this earth? We were put on this earth to make things better for the next generations. And here we're worrying about climate change and global warming. And we're looking at, again, I constantly cite -- I look at that "Bulletin of Atomic Scientists" every year. And it says now: "Two minutes to midnight." Are we out of our minds, adults, about passing on a better a world to our children? That's what our purpose is, to leave a better world for everybody, and the concept of enough for everybody. There should be no hungry children in this world with the rich wealth that we have. And so I can't think of a bigger cause, and I think that I'm driven by my faith. And it's been a privilege to serve, but I always had the best role models in the world. Daddy always said God runs a full employment economy, and that if you just follow the need, you'll never lack for a purpose in life. And I watched the partnership -- because my mother was a true partner. I always knew I was as smart as my brothers, at least. And we always knew that we were not just to be about ourselves, but that we were here to serve.
給富人減稅是不對的 而且那不符合成本效益 受教育兒童的人數是這個國家關鍵 而我們卻有好多的孩童 無法讀或寫最基本的東西 我們在錯誤的東西上投資 我不會對擁有十億 或一百億元的人生氣 只要我們沒有飢餓的兒童 只要我們沒有無家可歸的兒童 只要我們沒有未受教育的兒童 這其實在於我們如何過這一生 我們為什麼被放在這地球上? 我們之所以被放在地球上 是要為下一代把事情變得更好 我們在擔心氣候變遷 和全球暖化 我們也看到,我重申── 如我時常提及的 我每年都看《原子科學家公報》 它現在說:「兩分鐘到午夜」 大人們,我們瘋了嗎? 難道我們不要將 更好的世界交給下一代嗎? 我們的使命就是把一個 更好的世界留給所有的人 並擁有「夠每個人用」的概念 以我們的財富 這世上不該有飢餓的兒童 我想不到更大的使命 我想我的信仰激勵了我 能夠服務一向是我的榮幸 我總有著世上最棒的模範 爸爸總是說 上帝主導的經濟人人有工作 倘若你跟著需要走 你永遠不會缺少人生的目標 我看見這樣的合作── 因為我母親是個真正的夥伴 我一直都知道我和哥哥一樣聰明 最少 我們一直都知道我們不只是關心自己 我們還要服務別人
PM: Well, Marian, I want to say, on behalf of all the world's children, thank you for your passion, your purpose and your advocacy.
帕:瑪麗安,謹代表全世界的孩子 我想說:謝謝你的熱忱 你的使命和你的發聲
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