How many of us have ever seen something, thought that we should report it, but decided not to? And not that I need to see a show of hands, but I'm sure this has happened to someone in this room before. In fact, when this question was asked to a group of employees, 46 percent of them responded by saying that they had seen something and decided not to report it. So if you raised your hand, or quietly raised your hand, don't feel bad, you're not alone.
在座有多少人,曾經看到某件事, 認為應該要舉報, 卻決定不要這麼做? 我並不需要看到大家舉手, 只是我相信在座有很多人 都有過這樣的經驗。 事實上,當一群員工 被問到這個問題時, 46% 的人回答他們 曾經看到某件事, 卻決定不要舉報。 所以如果你剛剛有舉手, 或是在心中默默舉手, 不要覺得難過, 並非只有你一個人如此。
This message of if you see something to say something is really all around us. Even when driving down the highway, you see billboards like this, encouraging us to report crime without revealing ourselves. But I still feel like a lot of us are really uncomfortable coming forward in the name of the truth.
這個「如果你看見了什麼, 說出來」的訊息, 其實在我們身邊隨處可見。 即使在高速公路上開車, 也會看到這樣的廣告牌, 鼓勵我們在不揭露 自己身分的情況下舉報犯罪, 但我仍然覺得,大部分人還是無法 很自在地以真相之名站出來。
I'm an accounting professor, and I do fraud research. And in my class, I encourage my students to come forward with information if they see it. Or in other words, encouraging my students to become whistle-blowers. But if I'm being completely honest with myself, I am really conflicted with this message that I'm sending to my students. And here's why. Whistle-blowers are under attack. Headline after headline shows us this. Many people choose not to become whistle-blowers due to the fear of retaliation. From demotions to death threats, to job loss -- perpetual job loss. Choosing to become a whistle-blower is an uphill battle. Their loyalty becomes into question. Their motives, their trustworthiness. So how can I, as a professor who really cares about her students encourage them to become whistle-blowers, when I know how the world truly feels about them?
我是會計學教授,我研究詐欺。 在我的課堂上,我會鼓勵我的學生 如果有看到什麼資訊, 要站出來揭發。 或是,換句話說, 鼓勵我的學生當舉報者。 但如果要我對自己完全誠實, 我其實對於我傳達給學生的 這個訊息感到很矛盾。 原因如下。 舉報者受到攻擊。 一則又一則的頭條, 讓我們很清楚這一點。 許多人選擇不要當舉報者, 因為害怕被報復。 從降職、死亡威脅, 到失去工作—— 永遠失去工作。 選擇當舉報者等於 在打一場艱難的仗。 他們的忠誠度成了問題。 他們的動機、他們的可信度。 所以,我身為一個真的 很關心自己學生的教授, 我明明知道舉報者會被如何看待, 怎麼還能鼓勵學生去當舉報者?
So, one day I was getting ready for my annual whistle-blower lecture with my students. And I was working on an article for "Forbes," entitled "Wells Fargo and Millennial Whistle-blowing. What Do We Tell Them?" And as I was working on this piece and reading about the case, I became outraged. And what made me angry was when I came to the fact and realized that the employees that tried to whistle-blow were actually fired. And it really made me think about the message that I was sharing with my students. And it made me think: What if my students had been Wells Fargo employees? On the one hand, if they whistle-blew, they would have gotten fired. But on the other hand, if they didn't report the frauds that they knew, the way current regulation is written, employees are held responsible if they knew something and didn't report it. So criminal prosecution is a real option. What's a person supposed to do with those type of odds?
所以,有一天,我正在準備 每年要對我學生做的舉報者演講。 我在為「富比士」 寫一篇文章,標題是 「富國銀行集團及千禧世代舉報? 我們要告訴他們什麼?」 我在寫這篇文章時, 讀到了一個案例, 讓我震怒。 讓我生氣的是我得知 試圖舉報的員工 真的被開除了。 這件事真的讓我去思考 我一直在給我的學生的訊息。 它讓我去思考:如果我的學生是 富國銀行集團的員工呢? 一方面,如果他們舉報, 他們就會被開除。 但另一方面, 如果他們不舉報他們知道的詐欺, 依據目前的規定, 員工知情不報 是需要負責的。 所以受到刑事訴訟真的 是其中一個可能性。 在這種勝算很低的 情況下,該怎麼做?
I of all people know the valuable contributions that whistle-blowers make. In fact, most frauds are discovered by them. Forty two percent of frauds are discovered by a whistle-blower in comparison to other methods, like measurement review and external audit. And when you think about some of the more classic or historical fraud cases, it always is around a whistle-blower. Think Watergate -- discovered by a whistle-blower. Think Enron -- discovered by a whistle-blower. And who can forget about Bernard Madoff, discovered by a whistle-blower? It takes a tremendous amount of courage to come forward in the name of the truth. But when we think about the term whistle-blower, we often think of some very descriptive words: rat, snake, traitor, tattletale, weasel. And those are the nice words, the ones I can say from the stage.
所有人當中,我最清楚 舉報者做出的貢獻是多麼有價值。 事實上,大部分的詐欺 都是由舉報者發現的。 42% 的詐欺是舉報者發現的, 勝過其他的揭發方式, 如測量評估和外部稽核。 當你想想一些比較經典 或歷史上的詐欺案例, 都是和舉報者脫不了關係。 想想水門案——由舉報者發現。 想想安隆案——由舉報者發現。 還有,誰能忘得了伯納·馬多夫案? 也是由舉報者發現。 一個人需要有非常大的勇氣, 才能以真相之名挺身而出。 但當我們想到舉報者這個詞時, 我們通常會聯想到一些 非常描述性的字眼: 鼠輩、 蛇(陰險的人)、 叛徒、 搬弄是非的人、黃鼠狼。 那些還算是好的字眼, 是我能在台上說出來的。
And so when I'm not in class, I go around the country and I interview white-collar felons, whistle-blowers and victims of fraud. Because really I'm trying to understand what makes them tick and to bring those experiences back into the classroom. But it's my interviews with whistle-blowers that really stick with me. And they stick with me, because they make me question my own courage. When given the opportunity, would I actually speak up? And so, this is a couple stories that I want to share with you.
所以,當我不在課堂上時, 我會全國到處跑, 訪問詐欺案的白領重罪犯、 舉報者,以及受害者。 因為我想要了解他們的動機, 並把那些經驗帶回到教室裡。 但所有的訪談中, 和舉報者的訪談最讓我難忘。 我忘不了的原因是 它們讓我質疑我自己的勇氣。 若給我機會, 我真的會說出來嗎? 所以,我想要和各位 分享這幾個故事。
This is Mary. Mary Willingham is the whistle-blower from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case. And Mary was a learning specialist at the university, and she worked with students, primarily student athletes. And what she noticed, when she was working with students, is they were turning in term papers that seemed well beyond their reading levels. She started to ask a couple of questions and she found out that there was a database where the student athletes could retrieve papers and turn them in. And then she found out that some of her colleagues were funneling students into fake classes, just to keep them eligible to play. Now, when Mary found this out, she was outraged. And so what she tried to do was go to her direct supervisor. But they didn't do anything. And then Mary tried to go to some internal university administrators. And they didn't do anything.
這位是瑪莉。 瑪莉·威林漢是 教堂山北卡羅萊納大學的 學術詐欺案的舉報者。 當時瑪莉是該大學中的學習專員, 她工作時要面對學生, 主要是學生運動員。 當她在帶這些學生時,她注意到 學生們交給她的學期報告 程度似乎遠超過他們的閱讀水準。 她開始問一些問題, 她發現有一個資料庫存在, 學生運動員可以從 這個資料庫取得報告來繳交。 接著她發現,她的一些同事 幫學生安排假課程, 好讓他們有資格繼續參賽。 當瑪莉發現這些時,她非常生氣。 她試著去找她的直屬主管。 但他們沒有採取行動。 接著,瑪莉試著去找 大學內部的一些管理者。 他們沒有採取行動。
So, what happens when nobody listens? You blog. So Mary decided to develop a blog. Her blog went viral within 24 hours, and she was contacted by a reporter. Now, when she was contacted by this reporter, her identity was known. She was exposed. And when she was exposed, she received a demotion, death threats, over collegiate sports. Mary didn't do anything wrong. She didn't participate in the fraud. She really thought that she was giving voice to students that were voiceless. But her loyalty was questioned. Her trustworthiness and her motives.
所以,當沒有人肯聽你的話時, 怎麼辦? 你寫網誌。 所以瑪莉決定開一個部落格。 在二十四小時之內, 她的部落格被瘋傳, 一名記者去聯絡她。 當她被這位記者聯絡上時, 她的身分就廣為人知的了。 她已經曝光了。 當她曝光之後,她就被降級, 還收到來自 大學運動聯盟的死亡威脅。 瑪莉並沒有做錯事。 她並沒有參與詐欺。 她真的認為她是在 為無法發聲的學生發聲。 但她的忠誠受到質疑。 她的可信度和她的動機。
Now, whistle-blowing doesn't always have to end in demotions or death threats. Actually, in 2002, this was the cover of "Time" magazine, where we were actually honoring three brave whistle-blowers for their decision to come forward in the name of the truth. And when you look at the research, 22 percent of whistle-blowers actually report retaliation. So there is a huge population of people that report and are not retaliated against and that gives me hope.
舉報不見得最後一定會都得到 降職或死亡威脅。 事實上,在 2002 年, 這是《時代》雜誌的封面, 我們表揚了三位勇敢的舉報者, 因為他們決定以真相之名挺身而出。 根據研究結果, 22% 的舉報者說 他們確實遭到報復。 所以有很多人 舉報但沒有遭到報復, 那讓我燃起希望。
So this is Kathe. Kathe Swanson is a retired city clerk from the city of Dixon. And one day, Kathe was doing her job, just like she always did, and she stumbled upon a pretty interesting case. See, Kathe was at the end of the month, and she was doing her treasures report for the city, and typically, her boss, Rita Crundwell, gave her a list of accounts and said, "Kathe, call the bank and get these specific accounts." And Kathe did her job. But this particular day, Rita was out of town, and Kathe was busy. She picks up the phone, she calls the bank and says, "Fax me all of the accounts." And when she gets the fax, she sees that there is an account that has some withdrawals and deposits in it that she did not know about. It was an account controlled only by Rita.
這位是凱西。 凱西·史萬森是迪克森市的 退休辦事員。 有一天,凱西在一如往常地工作時, 她偶然發現一個很有趣的案件。 那時是月底, 凱西在為市政府做財務報告, 通常,她的老闆瑞塔·克朗威爾 會給她一份帳戶清單,並說: 「凱西,打電話給銀行, 取得這些帳戶的資料。」 凱西就照做。 但就在這一天, 瑞塔出城了,而凱西很忙。 她拿起電話,打給銀行,說: 「請把所有的帳戶的資料傳真給我。」 當她拿到傳真之後, 她注意到有一個帳戶 有她不知情的提款和存款記錄。 這個帳戶只由瑞塔親自管理。
So Kathe looked at the information, she reported it to her direct supervisor, which was then-mayor Burke, and this led into a huge investigation, a six-month investigation. Come to find out, Kathe's boss, Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money. Rita was embezzling 53 million dollars over a 20-year period, and Kathe just happened to stumble upon it. Kathe is a hero. And actually, I had the opportunity of interviewing Kathe for my documentary, "All the Queen's Horses." And Kathe wasn't seeking fame. In fact, she really didn't want to talk to me for a really long time, but through strategic stalking, she ended up doing the interview.
所以,凱西看了那些資訊, 呈報她的直屬主管, 也就是當時的市長柏克。 此舉造成了為期 六個月的大規模調查。 後來發現,凱西的老闆 瑞塔·克朗威爾一直在盜用公款。 瑞塔在二十年的期間, 盜用了五千三百萬美金, 凱西只是碰巧發現了。 凱西是位英雄。 其實,我的紀錄片 《女王所有的人馬》 讓我有機會訪問凱西。 凱西並不想要名氣。 事實上,有很長一段時間 她都不願意和我談, 但透過策略性的跟蹤, 她最後還是接受了訪談。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
But she was seeking fairness, not fame. And if it wasn't for Kathe, who's to say this fraud would have ever been discovered?
但她追求的是公平,不是成名。 若不是凱西, 誰敢說這件詐欺會被揭發出來?
So, remember that "Forbes" article I was talking about, that I was working on before my lecture? Well, I posted it and something really fantastic happened. I started receiving emails from whistle-blowers all over the world. And as I was receiving these emails and responding back to them, there was a common theme in the message that I received, and this is what it was: they all said this, "I blew the whistle, people really hate me now. I got fired, but guess what? I would do it all over again if I could." And so as I kept reading this message, all these messages, I wanted to think, what could I share with my students? And so, I pulled it all together and this is what I learned.
還記得我剛說過的富比士文章嗎? 我演講前在寫的文章? 我把它刊出來了, 接著發生了很棒的事。 我開始收到全世界 舉報者寄來的電子郵件。 我在收到這些電子郵件之後, 會回信給他們, 在我收到的訊息當中, 有一個共通的主題,就是: 他們都會這樣說:「我舉報了, 現在大家都很討厭我。 我被開除了,但你知道嗎? 如果重來一次,我還是會這麼做。」 當我繼續閱讀著這些訊息, 我在思考, 我能和我的學生分享什麼? 所以,我把一切整理起來, 以下是我所學到的。
It's important for us to cultivate hope. Whistle-blowers are hopeful. Despite popular belief, they're not all disgruntled employees that have a beef with the company. Their hopefulness really is what drives them to come forward. We also have to cultivate commitment. Whistle-blowers are committed. And it's that passion to their organization that makes them want to come forward. Whistle-blowers are humble. Again, they're not seeking fame, but they are seeking fairness. And we need to continue to cultivate bravery. Whistle-blowers are brave. Often, they underestimated the impact whistle-blowing had on their family, but what they continue to comment on is how hard it is to withhold the truth.
我們要培養希望,這是很重要的。 舉報者抱有希望。 不論大眾怎麼想,他們並非全都是 對公司有所抱怨的不滿員工。 他們之所以會站出來, 背後的動因就是他們抱有希望。 我們也得要培養投入。 舉報者是投入的人。 正是對公司的熱忱, 讓他們想要站出來。 舉報者是謙遜的。 同樣的,他們追求的不是出名, 他們在追求的是公平。 另外,我們需要持續培養勇氣。 舉報者很勇敢。 他們通常低估 舉報對於他們的家庭造成的影響, 但他們持續敘述的是 隱瞞真相是多麼困難。
With that, I want to leave you with one additional name: Peter Buxtun. Peter Buxtun was a 27-year-old employee for the US Public Health Service. And he was hired to interview people that had sexually transmitted diseases. And through the course of his work, he noticed a clinical study that was going on within the organization. And it was a study that was looking at the progression of untreated syphilis. And so, there were 600 African American males that were in this study. They were enticed into the study through being given free medical exams, burial insurance. And so, what happened through the course of this study, is penicillin was discovered to help treat syphilis. And what Peter noticed was, the participants in this study were not given the penicillin to treat their syphilis. And the participants didn't know.
因此,我最後想留給各位一個名字: 彼得·巴克斯頓。 二十七歲的彼得·巴克斯頓是 美國公共衛生局的員工。 他被僱來訪談 因為性行為而染上疾病的人。 在他工作的過程中, 他注意到組織中正在 進行一項臨床研究。 這項研究是在探究 未被治療之梅毒的發展。 這項研究中有六百位 非裔美國男性。 他們被誘使參加研究,誘因是 給予他們免費的體檢和喪葬保險。 在這項研究進行的過程中 發生了一件事, 盤尼西林已被發現 可以協助治療梅毒。 而彼得所注意到的是, 這項研究的受試者 並沒有得到盤尼西林 來治療他們的梅毒。 而受試者並不知情。
So similar to Mary, Peter tried to report and talk to his internal supervisors, but no one listened. And so Peter thought this was completely unfair and he tried to report again, and finally talked to a reporter -- very similar to Mary. And in 1972, this was the front page of the "New York Times": "Syphilis Victims in US Study Went Untreated for 40 Years." This is known to us today as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. And Peter was the whistle-blower. What happened to the 600 men, you may wonder, the 600 original men? Twenty eight men died from syphilis. One hundred died from syphilis complications, forty wives were infected and 10 children were born with congenital syphilis. Who's to say what these numbers would be if it wasn't for the brave, courageous act of Peter?
和瑪莉很類似, 彼得試圖舉報, 並和內部的主管談這件事, 但沒有人肯聽。 彼得認為這非常不公平, 他再次試圖舉報, 終於,他和一位記者談過—— 和瑪莉的狀況非常像。 1972 年,這是 《紐約時報》的頭版: 「美國研究的梅毒受害者, 四十年沒有被治療。」 這就是我們現今所知道的 「塔斯基吉梅毒實驗」。 舉報者正是彼得。 你可能在納悶, 這六百個人後來怎麼了? 其中二十八人死於梅毒。 一百人因為梅毒併發症而死, 四十位妻子受到感染, 十名孩子出生時就有先天性梅毒。 如果彼得沒有做出這勇敢的舉動, 天知道這些數字會是多少?
We're all connected to Peter, actually. If you know anybody that's in a clinical trial, the reason why we have informed consent today is because of Peter's courageous act.
其實,我們都和彼得有所連結。 如果你認識任何 參與臨床試驗的人, 現今我們會有「知情同意」的原因, 就是因為彼得勇敢的舉動。
So let me ask you a question. That original question, a variation of the original question. How many of us have ever used the term snitch, rat tattletale, snake, weasel, leak? Anybody?
讓我問各位一個問題。 把原本的問題改個問法。 有多少人曾經用下列這些詞: 抓耙子、鼠輩、 搬弄是非的人、 蛇(陰險的人)、 黃鼠狼、 洩密者? 有人用過嗎?
Before you get the urge to do that again, I want you to think a little bit. It might be the Mary, the Peter, the Kathes of the world. You might be the person that could shape history, or they could be the person that shapes yours.
下次當你有衝動想要 再說出這些詞之前, 我希望你能稍微想一下。 你說的人可能就是世界上的 瑪莉、彼得、凱西。 你可能就是能夠塑造歷史的人, 或者,他們可能就是 塑造你的歷史的人。
Thank you.
謝謝。
(Applause)
(掌聲)