In 1994, I walked into a prison in Cambodia, and I met a 12-year-old boy who had been tortured and was denied access to counsel. And as I looked into his eyes, I realized that for the hundreds of letters I had written for political prisoners, that I would never have written a letter for him, because he was not a 12-year-old boy who had done something important for anybody. He was not a political prisoner. He was a 12-year-old boy who had stolen a bicycle. What I also realized at that point was that it was not only Cambodia, but of the 113 developing countries that torture, 93 of these countries have all passed laws that say you have a right to a lawyer and you have a right not to be tortured.
在1994年,我走進了柬埔寨的一個監獄, 遇到了一個12歲的男孩, 他被嚴刑拷打 還被禁止獲得律師協助。 我看著他的眼睛,我意識到, 我為政治犯寫了的 數以百計的信件,但我不會 為他寫信, 因為他不是一個 做了什麼重要事蹟的12歲男孩。 他不是一個政治犯。 他是一個偷了一輛自行車的 12歲男孩。 在那一刻我也意識到的是, 不僅是柬埔寨, 但在113個 發展中國家有酷刑的, 其中有93個國家都有立法, 宣稱你有權利尋求一個律師, 你有不接受嚴刑的權力。
And what I recognized was that there was an incredible window of opportunity for us as a world community to come together and end torture as an investigative tool. We often think of torture as being political torture or reserved for just the worst, but, in fact, 95 percent of torture today is not for political prisoners. It is for people who are in broken-down legal systems, and unfortunately because torture is the cheapest form of investigation -- it's cheaper than having a legal system, cheaper than having a lawyer and early access to counsel -- it is what happens most of the time. I believe today that it is possible for us as a world community, if we make a decision, to come together and end torture as an investigative tool in our lifetime, but it will require three things. First is the training, empowerment, and connection of defenders worldwide.
我意識到的是,有一個 令人難以置信的機會, 讓我們作為國際社會集合在一起, 終結那些作為調查工具的酷刑。 我們通常認為酷刑是作為 政治酷刑或只是針對 最壞的人,但其實 今天95%的酷刑, 並不是施加在政治犯身上。 它被施加在那些活在 不健全的法律制度裡的人們身上, 而且不幸的是,因為酷刑是 最便宜的調查形式 -- 它比的法律制度便宜, 比動用律師 和早期的法律顧問還便宜 -- 所以大多數的情況下,酷刑便會發生。 我相信我們今天作為一個國際社會, 如果我們作出決定,是有可能集合在一起, 在我們的有生之年結束 以酷刑作為的調查工具, 但它需要三樣東西。 首先是培訓,授權, 並連結全世界的辯護律師。
The second is insuring that there is systematic early access to counsel. And the third is commitment. So in the year 2000, I began to wonder, what if we came together? Could we do something for these 93 countries? And I founded International Bridges to Justice which has a specific mission of ending torture as an investigative tool and implementing due process rights in the 93 countries by placing trained lawyers at an early stage in police stations and in courtrooms. My first experiences, though, did come from Cambodia, and at the time I remember first coming to Cambodia and there were, in 1994, still less than 10 attorneys in the country because the Khmer Rouge had killed them all.
第二個是要確保 有一套提供早期法律顧問的制度。 第三是承諾。 在2000年, 我開始在想, 如果我們集合一起會怎樣? 我們能為這93個國家 做些什麼嗎? 我成立了〈國際司法橋樑組織〉, 它有一個明確的任務,就是要 終結以酷刑作為調查工具, 以及在這93個國家裡建置 一套正當程序的權利, 其作法是透過 在警察局裡以及在法院上, 安排訓練有素的律師。 我的第一次經驗, 是來自柬埔寨,當時我記得 第一次到柬埔寨,於1994年, 在全國尚有 不到10個律師,因為其他的律師 全都被赤柬殺害了。
And even 20 years later, there was only 10 lawyers in the country, so consequently you'd walk into a prison and not only would you meet 12-year-old boys, you'd meet women and you'd say, "Why are you here?" Women would say, "Well I've been here for 10 years because my husband committed a crime, but they can't find him." So it's just a place where there was no rule of law.
甚至在20年後,國家依然 僅有10個律師,所以 當你走進一所監獄時 你不僅能遇到12歲的男孩, 你還會遇到婦女,而當你問她們: 「為什麼你在這裡呢?」她們會說: 「嗯,我在這裡已經10年, 因為我的丈夫犯了罪,但他們無法找到他。」 所以它只是一個沒有法治的地方。
The first group of defenders came together and I still remember, as I was training, I said, "Okay, what do you do for an investigation?" And there was silence in the class, and finally one woman stood up, [inaudible name], and she said "Khrew," which means "teacher." She said, "I have defended more than a hundred people, and I've never had to do any investigation, because they all come with confessions."
我還記得, 第一批辯護律師 聚集一起,當時我在做培訓工作,我就說: 「好吧,你會怎樣做一個調查?」 全班沉默着, 最後一個女人站了起來,[聽不清楚的名字], 她說:「Khrew」,意即「老師」。 她說:「我曾經為 一百多人辯護,, 但我從來沒有 做任何調查, 因為他們全都已經招認。」
And we talked about, as a class, the fact that number one, the confessions might not be reliable, but number two, we did not want to encourage the police to keep doing this, especially as it was now against the law. And it took a lot of courage for these defenders to decide that they would begin to stand up and support each other in implementing these laws. And I still remember the first cases where they came, all 25 together, she would stand up, and they were in the back, and they would support her, and the judges kept saying, "No, no, no, no, we're going to do things the exact same way we've been doing them."
然後,我們在課堂上討論到 第一,那些供詞 可能不可信,但第二是 我們不希望鼓勵警方 繼續這樣做,特別是 因為現在它是違法的。 這些辯護律師花了 很大的勇氣才決定 開始站出來並且互相支持 來落實這些法律。 我還記得第一案例裡, 他們25個一起來, 她會站着,其他的都站在後面 並且會支持她,而法官不停地說: 「不,不,不,不,我們要用以往相同的方式 去做我們的事情。」
But one day the perfect case came, and it was a woman who was a vegetable seller, she was sitting outside of a house. She said she actually saw the person run out who she thinks stole whatever the jewelry was, but the police came, they got her, there was nothing on her. She was pregnant at the time. She had cigarette burns on her. She'd miscarried. And when they brought her case to the judge, for the first time he stood up and he said, "Yes, there's no evidence except for your torture confession and you will be released."
有一天,一個完美的案件出現了, 一個賣蔬菜的女人, 她坐在一所房子外面。 她說她真的看到了 她認為偷走了珠寶的人 從房子逃走出去,但警察來了 卻逮捕了她,她身上一無所有。 當時她身懷六甲。她身上有 被煙頭燙傷的傷疤,而且她流產了。 當他們把她的案件 拿來到法官前,他首次站了起來, 說:「是的,這裡沒有證據, 除了妳被逼供的招認, 而妳將會被釋放。」
And the defenders began to take cases over and over again and you will see, they have step by step began to change the course of history in Cambodia. But Cambodia is not alone. I used to think, well is it Cambodia? Or is it other countries? But it is in so many countries.
而辯護律師開始一遍又一遍的 接受案件, 你會看到,他們一步一步開始 在改變柬埔寨的歷史。 但柬埔寨並是唯一的例子。 我常想,是柬埔寨嗎? 抑或是其他國家呢? 但這樣的事情在如此多的國家發生。
In Burundi I walked into a prison and it wasn't a 12-year-old boy, it was an 8-year-old boy for stealing a mobile phone. Or a woman, I picked up her baby, really cute baby, I said "Your baby is so cute." It wasn't a baby, she was three. And she said "Yeah, but she's why I'm here," because she was accused of stealing two diapers and an iron for her baby and still had been in prison. And when I walked up to the prison director, I said, "You've got to let her out. A judge would let her out." And he said, "Okay, we can talk about it, but look at my prison. Eighty percent of the two thousand people here are without a lawyer. What can we do?" So lawyers began to courageously stand up together to organize a system where they can take cases. But we realized that it's not only the training of the lawyers, but the connection of the lawyers that makes a difference.
在布隆迪,我走進了監獄,這次不是 一個12歲的男孩,而是一個8歲的男孩 偷了一個手機。 或是一個女人,我抱起她的寶寶, 很可愛的寶寶,我說:「你的寶寶太可愛了。」 只不過那不是一個嬰兒,她已經三歲。 她說:「是啊,但她就是我在這裡的原因」, 因為她被指控竊取了 兩塊尿布和熨斗給她的嬰兒 並且仍然被困在獄中。 當我走到監獄主管前, 我說,「你一定要把她放出來。 法官會放她出來。」 他說,「好吧,我們可以談談這件事, 但看看我的監獄。在這裡的 兩千人中百分之八十 沒有律師,我們可以做些什麼?」 因此,律師開始勇敢地 站出來,共同組織一套制度, 在那裡他們可以接案。 但我們意識到,重要的不僅是 律師的訓練,而是律師們之間 的聯繫。
For example, in Cambodia, it was that [inaudible name] did not go alone but she had 24 lawyers with her who stood up together. And in the same way, in China, they always tell me, "It's like a fresh wind in the desert when we can come together." Or in Zimbabwe, where I remember Innocent, after coming out of a prison where everybody stood up and said, "I've been here for one year, eight years, 12 years without a lawyer," he came and we had a training together and he said, "I have heard it said" -- because he had heard people mumbling and grumbling -- "I have heard it said that we cannot help to create justice because we do not have the resources." And then he said, "But I want you to know that the lack of resources is never an excuse for injustice." And with that, he successfully organized 68 lawyers who have been systematically taking the cases.
例如,在柬埔寨,[清不見的名字] 不是單槍匹馬, 她有24個律師 與她一起爭取。同樣地, 在中國,他們常常告訴我, 「當我們能走到一起, 這就像在沙漠中的清風。」 或在辛巴威,我記得「無辜」, 在一個監獄裡走出來, 當每個人 都站出來,並說:「我在這裡 已經一年,八年,十二年 沒有律師」, 他來和我們一同訓練, 他說:「我聽到有人說」-- 因為他聽說有人喃喃自語 和抱怨 -- 「我聽有人說, 我們不能不建立公平公正 因為我們沒有資源。」 然後他說,「但我想讓你知道, 資源的匱乏 不應該是一個不公不義存在的藉口。」 而就這樣,他已成功地 組織了個68律師 有系統地接案。
The key that we see, though, is training and then early access. I was recently in Egypt, and was inspired to meet with another group of lawyers, and what they told me is that they said, "Hey, look, we don't have police on the streets now. The police are one of the main reasons why we had the revolution. They were torturing everybody all the time." And I said, "But there's been tens of millions of dollars that have recently gone in to the development of the legal system here. What's going on?" I met with one of the development agencies, and they were training prosecutors and judges, which is the normal bias, as opposed to defenders. And they showed me a manual which actually was an excellent manual. I said, "I'm gonna copy this." It had everything in it. Lawyers can come at the police station. It was perfect. Prosecutors were perfectly trained. But I said to them, "I just have one question, which is, by the time that everybody got to the prosecutor's office, what had happened to them?" And after a pause, they said, "They had been tortured."
我們發現,關鍵是訓練, 以及早期的法律顧問服務。 最近我在埃及,並獲得了靈感, 去會見另一組律師, 他們告訴我, 「嗨,看看,現在 我們的街道上沒有警察。 警察是我們掀起革命的 主要原因之一。他們總是在 對人動刑。」 我說:「但最近不是有數千萬元 去發展這裡的 法律制度嗎? 究竟發生了什麼事?」 我會見了其中一個發展機構, 他們正在培訓檢察官 和法官, 而不是培訓辯護律師,而這是常見的錯誤作法。 他們給我看了一本手冊, 實際上是一本很好的手冊。 我說:「我要去複製一份。」 它包含了一切。律師可以 前往派出所。它是完美的。 檢察官得到了完整的訓練。 但我對他們說:「我只有一個問題, 那便是,當每個人都到了 檢察官的辦公室,他們會發生什麼?」 停頓一會兒後,他們說: 「他們遭受過酷刑。」
So the pieces are, not only the training of the lawyers, but us finding a way to systematically implement early access to counsel, because they are the safeguard in the system for people who are being tortured. And as I tell you this, I'm also aware of the fact that it sounds like, "Oh, okay, it sounds like we could do it, but can we really do it?" Because it sounds big. And there are many reasons why I believe it's possible. The first reason is the people on the ground who find ways of creating miracles because of their commitment. It's not only Innocent, who I told you about in Zimbabwe, but defenders all over the world who are looking for these pieces. We have a program called JusticeMakers, and we realized there are people that are courageous and want to do things, but how can we support them? So it's an online contest where it's only five thousand dollars if you come up with and innovative way of implementing justice. And there are 30 JusticeMakers throughout the world, from Sri Lanka to Swaziland to the DRC, who with five thousand dollars do amazing things, through SMS programs, through paralegal programs, through whatever they can do.
因此,不僅是 律師的培訓,我們還要找到一種方法, 有系統地實施早期法律顧問服務, 因為那是 身處凌遲拷打中的人們 唯一的保障。 正如我告訴你,我也知道 事實上它聽起來像,「哦,好吧,這聽起來 像我們做得到的,但我們真的可以做到嗎?」 因為它聽起來像是一個大工程。 但有許多原因讓我相信這是可能的。 第一個原因是,實際在這一行的人會 因為他們的承諾而找到 創造奇蹟的方法。 不僅是「無辜」,我告訴你 在辛巴威的人,但在世界各地。 搜尋着這些方法的辯護律師。 我們有一個計畫稱為JusticeMakers, 我們意識到有人是勇敢 和想做點事情,但我們 如何支持他們呢? 所以它是一個網路競賽, 如果你能提出 創新的方式來實施司法,就有五千美元獎金。 在世界各地 有30個JusticeMakers,從斯里蘭卡, 到史瓦濟蘭,到剛果, 用五千美元就可以做到了不起的事情, 通過 SMS程序, 通過法律輔導計劃, 通過他們可以做的任何事。
And it's not only these JusticeMakers, but people we courageously see figure out who their networks are and how they can move it forward.
不僅是這些 JusticeMakers, 還有我們看到的人勇敢地 找出他們的人際網絡, 以及他們如何能繼續發展它。
So in China, for instance, great laws came out where it says police cannot torture people or they will be punished. And I was sitting side by side with one of our very courageous lawyers, and said, "How can we get this out? How can we make sure that this is implemented? This is fantastic." And he said to me, "Well, do you have money?" And I said, "No." And he said, "That's okay, we can still figure it out." And on December 4, he organized three thousand members of the Youth Communist League, from 14 of the top law schools, who organized themselves, developed posters with the new laws, and went to the police stations and began what he says is a non-violent legal revolution to protect citizen rights. So I talked about the fact that we need to train and support defenders. We need to systematically implement early access to counsel. But the third and most important thing is that we make a commitment to this.
例如,在中國,偉大的法律被通過, 禁止警察對人動刑, 否則將予以懲處。 而且,有一次我跟我們一位很勇敢的 律師坐在一起,說: 「我們怎樣才能把這個理念宣揚出去呢? 我們如何才能確保它被施行呢? 這是太棒了。」他對我說: 「那麼,你有沒有錢?」我說: 「沒有。」他說:「這沒關係, 我們仍然可以想想辦法。」 在12月4日,他組織了 3千個青年共產 主義青年團的成員, 從14個頂尖的法律學校, 他們組織起來,製作海報 宣傳新的法律,並去派出所, 並開始了他稱為的一個合法 非暴力的革命 以保護公民權利。 我談過我們需要 培養和支持辯護律師。 我們需要有系統地提供 早期法律顧問服務。 但第三以及最重要的是, 我們要對此作出承諾。
And people often say to me, "You know, this is great, but it's wildly idealistic. Never going to happen." And the reason that I think that those words are interesting is because those were the same kinds of words that were used for people who decided they would end slavery, or end apartheid. It began with a small group of people who decided they would commit.
人們常常對我說:「你要知道, 這是偉大的,但它是瘋狂地理想化。 永遠也不會發生。」 我認為這些話很 有趣的原因是, 因為是同樣像這些話, 使用在決定了將結束奴隸制的人, 或結束種族隔離的人。 它開始於一小群 下定承諾的人。
Now, there's one of our favorite poems from the defenders, which they share from each other, is: "Take courage friends, the road is often long, the path is never clear, and the stakes are very high, but deep down, you are not alone." And I believe that if we can come together as a world community to support not only defenders, but also everyone in the system who is looking towards it, we can end torture as an investigative tool. I end always, because I'm sure the questions are -- and I'd be happy to talk to you at any point -- "But what can I really do?" Well, I would say this. First of all, you know what you can do. But second of all, I would leave you with the story of Vishna, who actually was my inspiration for starting International Bridges to Justice.
現在,有一篇我們辯護律師們最喜歡的詩, 在他們之間彼此分享著, 寫道: 「朋友, 鼓起勇氣,這條路總是漫長的, 路徑永遠不會是明確的, 賭注是非常高的, 但內心深處,你並不孤獨。」 我相信,如果我們能團結在一起, 作為國際社會不僅支持 辯護律師,以及 所有指望這套系統的每個人, 我們可以結束酷刑作為一項調查工具。 我總是以這個結束,因為我敢肯定問題是 -- 我很樂意在任何時候 與你談談 -- 「但我真的可以做些什麼呢?」 好吧,我會說。首先, 你知道你可以做些什麼。但第二, 我最後跟你們分享Vishna的故事, 它是我發起 〈國際司法橋樑〉的靈感。
Vishna was a 4-year-old boy when I met him who was born in a Cambodian prison in Kandal Province. But because he was born in the prison, everybody loved him, including the guards, so he was the only one who was allowed to come in and out of the bars. So, you know, there's bars. And by the time that Vishna was getting bigger, which means what gets bigger? Your head gets bigger. So he would come to the first bar, the second bar and then the third bar, and then really slowly move his head so he could fit through, and come back, third, second, first. And he would grab my pinkie, because what he wanted to do every day is he wanted to go visit. You know, he never quite made it to all of them every day, but he wanted to visit all 156 prisoners. And I would lift him, and he would put his fingers through. Or if they were dark cells, it was like iron corrugated, and he would put his fingers through.
當我與Vishna會面時,他是一個 在柬埔寨幹丹省監獄出生的 4歲的男孩。但因為他是在 監獄出生,每個人都愛他, 包括警衛,所以他是唯一 一個被允許 進進出出監獄的人。 所以,你知道的,監獄有金屬柵欄。 當Vishna長大之後, 成長意味著什麼變大?你的頭變得更大。 他會來到第一條攔, 第二條和第三條, 然後真的慢慢地移動他的頭部, 使他能穿過去,然後回來, 第三,第二,第一。 他會拉我的小指,因為他每天想做的事 是他想去探訪。 你知道,他每天從來沒有 完全探訪所有人,但他希望探訪 所有156名犯人。我會舉起他, 他就會把他的手指通過。 或者,如果他們是在黑暗的牢房, 如波紋鐵,他會把他的手指伸過去。
And most of the prisoners said that he was their greatest joy and their sunshine, and they looked forward to him. And I was like, here's Vishna. He's a 4-year-old boy. He was born in a prison with almost nothing, no material goods, but he had a sense of his own heroic journey, which I believe we are all born into. He said, "Probably I can't do everything. But I'm one. I can do something. And I will do the one thing that I can do." So I thank you for having the prophetic imagination to imagine the shaping of a new world with us together, and invite you into this journey with us.
大多數囚犯說, 他是他們最大的快樂和他們的陽光, 他們期待著他來探望。我當時想, 這裡站著Vishna。他是一名4歲男童。 他出生在幾乎一無所有, 沒有物質的一所監獄,但他體悟道他有 他自己的英雄之旅,我相信 我們生來都有這種感覺。他說: 「可能我不能做到一切。 但我是一個人。我可以做到一些事情。 所以我會做我可以做到的一件事情。」 因此,我感謝你預言般的 想像力,去與我們一起 想像塑造一個新的世界, 並邀請你們參與我們的旅程。
Thank you.
謝謝。
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Thank you.
謝謝。
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Thank you.
謝謝。
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