In 1994, I walked into a prison in Cambodia, and I met a 12-year-old boy who had been tortured and was denied access to counsel. And as I looked into his eyes, I realized that for the hundreds of letters I had written for political prisoners, that I would never have written a letter for him, because he was not a 12-year-old boy who had done something important for anybody. He was not a political prisoner. He was a 12-year-old boy who had stolen a bicycle. What I also realized at that point was that it was not only Cambodia, but of the 113 developing countries that torture, 93 of these countries have all passed laws that say you have a right to a lawyer and you have a right not to be tortured.
1994, ušla sam u zatvor u Kambodži i upoznala 12-godišnjeg dječaka koji je mučen i kojem nije dozvoljen pristup savjetniku. Kad sam pogledala u njegove oči, shvatila sam da, iako sam napisala stotine pisama za političke zatvorenike, nikad ne bih napisala pismo za njega, budući on nije bio 12-godišnjak koji je uradio nešto važno za nekoga. Nije bio politički zatvorenik. Bio je 12-godišnji dječak koji je ukrao bicikl. Tada sam još shvatila da se to ne događa samo u Kambodži, nego da, od 113 zemalja u razvoju koje provode torturu, njih 93 imaju zakone koji kažu da imate pravo na odvjetnika i da imate pravo ne biti mučeni.
And what I recognized was that there was an incredible window of opportunity for us as a world community to come together and end torture as an investigative tool. We often think of torture as being political torture or reserved for just the worst, but, in fact, 95 percent of torture today is not for political prisoners. It is for people who are in broken-down legal systems, and unfortunately because torture is the cheapest form of investigation -- it's cheaper than having a legal system, cheaper than having a lawyer and early access to counsel -- it is what happens most of the time. I believe today that it is possible for us as a world community, if we make a decision, to come together and end torture as an investigative tool in our lifetime, but it will require three things. First is the training, empowerment, and connection of defenders worldwide.
Shvatila sam da je to bila nevjerojatna prilika za nas, kao svjetsku zajednicu, da se udružimo i stanemo na kraj mučenju kao sredstvu istrage. Često o torturi mislimo kao o političkoj torturi i nečemu rezerviranom samo za najgore, ali, ustvari, 95 posto današnje torture nije usmjereno ka političkim zatvorenicima. Usmjereno je k ljudima koji su u lošim pravnim sustavima, zato što je to, nažalost, najjeftiniji oblik istrage -- jeftinije je nego imati legalan sustav, jeftinije nego imati odvjetnika i rani pristup savjetovalištu -- to se događa većinu vremena. Ja danas vjerujem da je moguće za nas kao svjetsku zajednicu, ako odlučimo, udružiti se i stati na kraj torturi kao metodi istrage tijekom našeg životnog vijeka, ali to zahtijeva tri stvari. Prvo je trening, osnaživanje i povezivanje branitelja širom svijeta.
The second is insuring that there is systematic early access to counsel. And the third is commitment. So in the year 2000, I began to wonder, what if we came together? Could we do something for these 93 countries? And I founded International Bridges to Justice which has a specific mission of ending torture as an investigative tool and implementing due process rights in the 93 countries by placing trained lawyers at an early stage in police stations and in courtrooms. My first experiences, though, did come from Cambodia, and at the time I remember first coming to Cambodia and there were, in 1994, still less than 10 attorneys in the country because the Khmer Rouge had killed them all.
Drugo je osigurati da postoji sistematski rani pristup savjetovanju. A treće je predanost. U 2000. godini, počela sam se pitati, što ako se udružimo? Možemo li učiniti nešto za te 93 zemlje? Osnovala sam Međunarodne Mostove Do Pravde (International Bridges to Justice), koji imaju misiju ukidanja torture kao metode istrage i implementaciju prava tijekom procesa u 93 zemlje, stavljajući obučene odvjetnike u ranoj fazi istrage u policijske postaje i sudnice. Moja prva iskustva su bila iz Kambodže, i sjećam se svog prvog dolaska u Kambodžu i tamo je 1994. godine bilo manje od 10 odvjetnika u zemlji, budući da su ih Crveni Kmeri sve ubili.
And even 20 years later, there was only 10 lawyers in the country, so consequently you'd walk into a prison and not only would you meet 12-year-old boys, you'd meet women and you'd say, "Why are you here?" Women would say, "Well I've been here for 10 years because my husband committed a crime, but they can't find him." So it's just a place where there was no rule of law.
Dvadeset godina kasnije, bilo je samo 10 odvjetnika u zemlji tako da bi, kad uđete u zatvor, ne samo susreli 12-godišnjake, nego i žene, koje biste pitali: „Zašto ste ovdje?“, a one bi odgovorile: „Ovdje sam 10 godina zato što je moj muž počinio zločin, ali ga ne mogu pronaći“. To je jednostavno mjesto bez pravila i zakona.
The first group of defenders came together and I still remember, as I was training, I said, "Okay, what do you do for an investigation?" And there was silence in the class, and finally one woman stood up, [inaudible name], and she said "Khrew," which means "teacher." She said, "I have defended more than a hundred people, and I've never had to do any investigation, because they all come with confessions."
Prva skupina branitelja se oformila i sjećam se, dok sam provodila trening, rekla sam: „Ok, što vi radite za istragu?“, i bila je tišina u učionici, a onda je konačno jedna žena ustala [nerazumljivo ime] i rekla „Khrew“, što znači „učitelj“. Rekla je: „Ja sam branila više od stotinu ljudi i nikad nisam morala raditi istragu, budući da su svi došli s priznanjem“.
And we talked about, as a class, the fact that number one, the confessions might not be reliable, but number two, we did not want to encourage the police to keep doing this, especially as it was now against the law. And it took a lot of courage for these defenders to decide that they would begin to stand up and support each other in implementing these laws. And I still remember the first cases where they came, all 25 together, she would stand up, and they were in the back, and they would support her, and the judges kept saying, "No, no, no, no, we're going to do things the exact same way we've been doing them."
Pričali smo, kao razred, o činjenici da, prvo, priznanje ne mora biti vjerodostojno, a drugo, nismo htjeli podržati policiju da nastavi raditi to, posebno jer je to sada bilo protuzakonito. Trebalo je mnogo hrabrosti ovim braniteljima da odluče da će ustati i podržati jedni druge u implementaciji tih zakona. Još se sjećam prvih slučajeva gdje bi oni došli, svih 25 zajedno, ona bi ustala, a ostali bi bili iza i podržali ju, a sudac je nastavljao govoriti: „Ne, ne, ne, ne, nastavit ćemo raditi stvari na jednak način kako smo i do sada“.
But one day the perfect case came, and it was a woman who was a vegetable seller, she was sitting outside of a house. She said she actually saw the person run out who she thinks stole whatever the jewelry was, but the police came, they got her, there was nothing on her. She was pregnant at the time. She had cigarette burns on her. She'd miscarried. And when they brought her case to the judge, for the first time he stood up and he said, "Yes, there's no evidence except for your torture confession and you will be released."
Ali jednog dana došao je savršen slučaj, žena, prodavačica povrća, sjedila je ispred kuće. Rekla je da je vidjela osobu koja je istrčala, za koju ona misli da je ukrala neki nakit, ali policija je došla, uhvatila ju, a na njoj nije bilo ništa od tog nakita. Bila je trudna u to vrijeme. Imala je opekotine od cigareta po sebi. Pobacila je. A kad su došli s njenim slučajem kod suca, on je prvi put ustao i rekao: „Da, ne postoje dokazi, osim za vaše priznanje torture i bit ćete pušteni“.
And the defenders began to take cases over and over again and you will see, they have step by step began to change the course of history in Cambodia. But Cambodia is not alone. I used to think, well is it Cambodia? Or is it other countries? But it is in so many countries.
Branitelji su počeli uzimati sve više slučajeva i, vidjet ćete, korak po korak su počeli mijenjati pravac povijesti u Kambodži. Ali Kambodža nije sama. Mislila sam, je li to Kambodža? Ili su to druge zemlje? Ali tako je u puno zemalja.
In Burundi I walked into a prison and it wasn't a 12-year-old boy, it was an 8-year-old boy for stealing a mobile phone. Or a woman, I picked up her baby, really cute baby, I said "Your baby is so cute." It wasn't a baby, she was three. And she said "Yeah, but she's why I'm here," because she was accused of stealing two diapers and an iron for her baby and still had been in prison. And when I walked up to the prison director, I said, "You've got to let her out. A judge would let her out." And he said, "Okay, we can talk about it, but look at my prison. Eighty percent of the two thousand people here are without a lawyer. What can we do?" So lawyers began to courageously stand up together to organize a system where they can take cases. But we realized that it's not only the training of the lawyers, but the connection of the lawyers that makes a difference.
U Burundiju sam ušla u zatvor i tamo nije bio 12-godišnjak, bio je 8-godišnjak, zbog krađe mobitela. Ili žena, uzela sam njenu bebu, doista slatku bebu i rekla:“Vaša beba je tako slatka“. To nije bila beba, imala je tri godine. A ona je rekla: „Da, ali ona je razlog zašto sam ovdje“, bila je optužena da je ukrala dvije pelene i peglu za svoju bebu i još je bila u zatvoru. Kad sam došla do ravnatelja zatvora, rekla sam: „Morate ju pustiti van. Sudac bi ju pustio van“. On je rekao: „Ok, možemo razgovarati o tome. Ali pogledajte moj zatvor. 80 posto od 2.000 ljudi ovdje su bez odvjetnika. Što možemo učiniti?“ Odvjetnici su se počeli hrabro udruživati da organiziraju sustav gdje mogu uzimati slučajeve. Ali smo shvatili da nije sve samo u obučavanju odvjetnika, nego i njihova povezanost je ono što pravi razliku.
For example, in Cambodia, it was that [inaudible name] did not go alone but she had 24 lawyers with her who stood up together. And in the same way, in China, they always tell me, "It's like a fresh wind in the desert when we can come together." Or in Zimbabwe, where I remember Innocent, after coming out of a prison where everybody stood up and said, "I've been here for one year, eight years, 12 years without a lawyer," he came and we had a training together and he said, "I have heard it said" -- because he had heard people mumbling and grumbling -- "I have heard it said that we cannot help to create justice because we do not have the resources." And then he said, "But I want you to know that the lack of resources is never an excuse for injustice." And with that, he successfully organized 68 lawyers who have been systematically taking the cases.
Na primjer, u Kambodži je bila [nerazumljivo ime] koja nije išla sama, nego je imala sa sobom 24 odvjetnika koji su se držali zajedno. O istom mi u Kini kažu „To je kao svježi vjetar u pustinji, kad možemo doći zajedno“. Ili u Zimbabveu, sjećam se jednog nevinog, koji je nakon izlaska iz zatvora gdje su svi ostajali, rekao: „Bio sam ovdje godinu, osam godina, dvanaest godina bez odvjetnika“, došao je i držali smo obuku zajedno, a on je rekao: „Čuo sam da je rečeno“ -- budući da je čuo ljude kako mrmljaju i gunđaju -- „Čuo sam da je rečeno da ne možemo pomoći da se kreira pravda budući nemamo resursa“. A onda je rekao: „Ali želim da znate da nedostatak resursa nikad nije izgovor za nepravdu“. Organizirao je 68 odvjetnika koji su sustavno uzimali slučajeve.
The key that we see, though, is training and then early access. I was recently in Egypt, and was inspired to meet with another group of lawyers, and what they told me is that they said, "Hey, look, we don't have police on the streets now. The police are one of the main reasons why we had the revolution. They were torturing everybody all the time." And I said, "But there's been tens of millions of dollars that have recently gone in to the development of the legal system here. What's going on?" I met with one of the development agencies, and they were training prosecutors and judges, which is the normal bias, as opposed to defenders. And they showed me a manual which actually was an excellent manual. I said, "I'm gonna copy this." It had everything in it. Lawyers can come at the police station. It was perfect. Prosecutors were perfectly trained. But I said to them, "I just have one question, which is, by the time that everybody got to the prosecutor's office, what had happened to them?" And after a pause, they said, "They had been tortured."
Mi kao rješenje vidimo obuku i rani pristup. Nedavno sam bila u Egiptu i bila sam inspirirana da se sastanem s drugom skupinom odvjetnika, a oni su mi rekli: „Gle, mi nemamo policiju na ulicama. Policija je jedan od glavnih razloga zašto smo imali revoluciju. Oni su mučili sve cijelo vrijeme“. Ja sam rekla: „Ali desetci milijuna dolara su u posljednje vrijeme otišli za razvoj pravnog sustava ovdje. Što se događa?“ Sastala sam se s jednom agencijom za razvoj, oni su obučavali tužitelje i suce, što je inače neravnopravno u odnosu na branitelje. Pokazali su mi priručnik koji je bio odličan. Rekla sam: „Kopirat ću ovo“. Sve je bilo u njemu. Odvjetnici mogu doći u policijsku postaju. Bilo je savršeno. Tužitelji su bili savršeno obučeni. Ali rekla sam im: „Imam jedno pitanje -- do trenutka dok svi dođu u tužiteljev ured, što im se dogodi?“ Nakon pauze, rekli su: „Bili su mučeni“.
So the pieces are, not only the training of the lawyers, but us finding a way to systematically implement early access to counsel, because they are the safeguard in the system for people who are being tortured. And as I tell you this, I'm also aware of the fact that it sounds like, "Oh, okay, it sounds like we could do it, but can we really do it?" Because it sounds big. And there are many reasons why I believe it's possible. The first reason is the people on the ground who find ways of creating miracles because of their commitment. It's not only Innocent, who I told you about in Zimbabwe, but defenders all over the world who are looking for these pieces. We have a program called JusticeMakers, and we realized there are people that are courageous and want to do things, but how can we support them? So it's an online contest where it's only five thousand dollars if you come up with and innovative way of implementing justice. And there are 30 JusticeMakers throughout the world, from Sri Lanka to Swaziland to the DRC, who with five thousand dollars do amazing things, through SMS programs, through paralegal programs, through whatever they can do.
Znači, nije dovoljno samo obučiti odvjetnike, moramo naći način da sustavno implementiramo rani pristup savjetniku, budući su oni osiguranje u sustavu za ljude koji su mučeni. Dok vam ovo govorim, svjesna sam da to zvuči kao: „Oh, ok, to zvuči kao da mi to možemo, ali možemo li doista?“ Zato što zvuči veliko. A postoji mnogo razloga zašto mislim da je moguće. Prvi razlog su ljudi na terenu koji zbog svoje predanosti pronalaze načine da čine čuda. Ne samo Nevini, o kom sam vam pričala, u Zimbabveu, nego branitelji širom svijeta koji traže načine. Imamo program koji se zove StvarateljiPravde (JusticeMakers) i shvatili smo da postoje hrabri ljudi koji žele raditi, ali kako ih možemo podržati? Tako da je to online natjecanje gdje je na raspolaganju 5.000$ ako nam date inovativan način implementiranja pravde. A postoji 30 JusticeMakersa širom svijeta, od Šri Lanke, do Svazija, do DR Konga, koji s 5.000$ rade nevjerojatne stvari, kroz SMS programe, pomoćne pravne programe, kroz sve što mogu napraviti.
And it's not only these JusticeMakers, but people we courageously see figure out who their networks are and how they can move it forward.
Nisu to samo JusticeMakersi, nego ljudi koji shvaćaju tko su njihove mreže i kako ih mogu pokrenuti naprijed.
So in China, for instance, great laws came out where it says police cannot torture people or they will be punished. And I was sitting side by side with one of our very courageous lawyers, and said, "How can we get this out? How can we make sure that this is implemented? This is fantastic." And he said to me, "Well, do you have money?" And I said, "No." And he said, "That's okay, we can still figure it out." And on December 4, he organized three thousand members of the Youth Communist League, from 14 of the top law schools, who organized themselves, developed posters with the new laws, and went to the police stations and began what he says is a non-violent legal revolution to protect citizen rights. So I talked about the fact that we need to train and support defenders. We need to systematically implement early access to counsel. But the third and most important thing is that we make a commitment to this.
Tako je u Kini, naprimjer, izašao odličan zakon koji kaže da policija ne smije mučiti ljude, inače će biti kažnjeni. Sjedila sam pokraj jednog od naših vrlo hrabrih odvjetnika i rekla: „Kako mi ovo možemo provjeriti? Kako možemo biti sigurni da se implementira? Ovo je odlično“. A on mi je rekao: „Imate li novca?“ Ja sam rekla: „Ne“. On je rekao: „ To je u redu, možemo to još napraviti“. 4. prosinca organizirao je 3.000 članova Omladinske Komunističke Lige s 14 najboljih pravnih fakulteta, koji su se sami organizirali, napravili postere s novim zakonima i otišli u policijske postaje i počeli s, kako on kaže, nenasilnom pravnom revolucijom za zaštitu građanskih prava. Govorila sam o tome da moramo obučiti i podržati branitelje. Trebamo sustavnu implementaciju pristupa savjetnicima. Ali treća i najvažnija stvar je da budemo predani ovomu.
And people often say to me, "You know, this is great, but it's wildly idealistic. Never going to happen." And the reason that I think that those words are interesting is because those were the same kinds of words that were used for people who decided they would end slavery, or end apartheid. It began with a small group of people who decided they would commit.
Ljudi mi često kažu: „Znaš, ovo je super, ali je vrlo idealistički. Neće se dogoditi“. Razlog zašto mislim da su te izjave zanimljive je zato što su to jednake izjave koje su upućivane ljudima koji su odlučili stati na kraj ropstvu ili aparthejdu. Počelo je s malom skupinom ljudi koji su odlučili predati se tomu.
Now, there's one of our favorite poems from the defenders, which they share from each other, is: "Take courage friends, the road is often long, the path is never clear, and the stakes are very high, but deep down, you are not alone." And I believe that if we can come together as a world community to support not only defenders, but also everyone in the system who is looking towards it, we can end torture as an investigative tool. I end always, because I'm sure the questions are -- and I'd be happy to talk to you at any point -- "But what can I really do?" Well, I would say this. First of all, you know what you can do. But second of all, I would leave you with the story of Vishna, who actually was my inspiration for starting International Bridges to Justice.
Najdraža pjesma među braniteljima, koja se pjeva među njima je: „Budite hrabri, prijatelji, cesta je često dugačka, put nikad nije čist. Ulog je visok, ali u dubini niste sami“. Vjerujem da se možemo skupiti kao svjetska zajednica da podržimo, ne samo branitelje, nego svakoga u sustavu koji je otvoren prema tomu, možemo stati na kraj mučenju kao sredstvu istrage. Uvijek završim, budući da sam sigurna da su pitanja -- a ja bih bila sretna da razgovaram s vama u tom trenutku -- „Ali što doista možemo učiniti?“ Ja bih rekla ovo. Prvo, znate što možete učiniti. Ali, drugo, ostavila bih vas s Vishninom pričom, koji je ustvari bio moja inspiracija za pokretanje Međunarodnih Mostova Do Pravde.
Vishna was a 4-year-old boy when I met him who was born in a Cambodian prison in Kandal Province. But because he was born in the prison, everybody loved him, including the guards, so he was the only one who was allowed to come in and out of the bars. So, you know, there's bars. And by the time that Vishna was getting bigger, which means what gets bigger? Your head gets bigger. So he would come to the first bar, the second bar and then the third bar, and then really slowly move his head so he could fit through, and come back, third, second, first. And he would grab my pinkie, because what he wanted to do every day is he wanted to go visit. You know, he never quite made it to all of them every day, but he wanted to visit all 156 prisoners. And I would lift him, and he would put his fingers through. Or if they were dark cells, it was like iron corrugated, and he would put his fingers through.
Vishna je bio 4-godišnji dječak kad sam ga upoznala, koji je rođen u kambodžanskom zatvoru u provinciji Kandal. Budući da je bio rođen u zatvoru, svi su ga voljeli, uključujući čuvare, tako da je on bio jedini kojem je bilo dozovoljeno prolaziti kroz rešetke. Dakle, bile su rešetke. Kako je Vishna rastao, što znači, što postaje veće? Glava postaje veća. On bi došao do prve rešetke, druge i onda do treće rešetke, i onda jako polako pomicao glavu da bi mogao proći kroz to, i dolazio nazad, treća, druga, prva. Uhvatio bi moj mali prst, budući je ono što je želio bilo svaki dan ići u posjete. Nije uspio sve posjetiti svaki dan, ali želio je posjetiti svih 156 zatvorenika. Ja bih ga podigla i on bi provukao svoje prste. Ili, ako su bile tamne ćelije, to je bilo kao valovito željezo, a on bi provukao svoje prste.
And most of the prisoners said that he was their greatest joy and their sunshine, and they looked forward to him. And I was like, here's Vishna. He's a 4-year-old boy. He was born in a prison with almost nothing, no material goods, but he had a sense of his own heroic journey, which I believe we are all born into. He said, "Probably I can't do everything. But I'm one. I can do something. And I will do the one thing that I can do." So I thank you for having the prophetic imagination to imagine the shaping of a new world with us together, and invite you into this journey with us.
Većina zatvorenika je rekla da je on bio njihova najveća radost i njihovo sunce, veselili su mu se. A ja sam mislila -- to je Vishna. Četverogodišnjak. Rođen je u zatvoru skoro bez ičega, bez materijalnih dobara, ali je imao osjećaj za svoje vlastito herojsko putovanje, s kojim se rodimo. On je rekao: „Ja vjerojatno ne mogu učiniti sve. Ali ja sam taj. Ja mogu učiniti nešto. I učinit ću ono što mogu“. Zahvaljujem vam što ste imali profetsku maštu da zamisliti stvaranje novog svijeta s nama i pozivam vas na ovo putovanje s nama.
Thank you.
Hvala vam.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
Thank you.
Hvala vam.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
Thank you.
Hvala.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)