How many of you have seen the Alfred Hitchcock film "The Birds"? Any of you get really freaked out by that? You might want to leave now.
Koliko vas je gledalo "Ptice" Alfreda Hičkoka? Da li se neko ozbiljno uplašio? Bolje onda da izađete.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
So this is a vending machine for crows. Over the past few days, many of you have been asking, "How did you come to this? How did you get started doing this?" It started, as with many great ideas, or many ideas you can't get rid of, anyway, at a cocktail party. About 10 years ago, I was at a cocktail party with a friend of mine. We were sitting there, and he was complaining about the crows that were all over his yard and making a big mess. And he was telling me we ought to eradicate these things, kill them, because they're making a mess. I said that was stupid, maybe we should just train them to do something useful. And he said that was impossible.
Ovo je automat za vrane. Ovih dana me mnogi pitaju: "Kako si došao na ideju? Kako si počeo?" Počelo je kao i druge velike ideje, ili ideje koje te proganjaju na koktel zabavi. Pre 10 godina sam bio na zabavi sa prijateljem. Počeo je da se žali kako mu vrane dolaze u dvorište i prave nered. Zapravo je govorio da ih treba istrebiti. Moramo da ih ubijemo jer prave nered. Rekao sam da je to glupo. Treba ih naučiti da rade nešto korisno. Rekao je da je to nemoguće.
And I'm sure I'm in good company in finding that tremendously annoying, when someone tells you it's impossible. So I spent the next 10 years reading about crows in my spare time.
Ovde nas ima dosta koje nervira kad im neko kaže da je nešto nemoguće. Tako sam proveo poslednjih 10 godina čitajući o vranama u slobodno vreme.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
And after 10 years of this, my wife said, "You've got to do this thing you've been talking about, and build the vending machine." So I did. But part of the reason I found this interesting is, I started noticing that we're very aware of all the species that are going extinct on the planet as a result of human habitation expansion, and no one seems to be paying attention to all the species that are actually living; they're surviving. And I'm talking specifically about synanthropic species, which have adapted specifically for human ecologies, species like rats and cockroaches and crows.
Nakon 10 godina, žena mi je rekla: "Moraš da uradiš ovo o čemu si pričao i napraviš automat." To sam i uradio. Delom mi je bilo zanimljivo jer sam primetio da smo svesni svih vrsta koje će izumreti zbog širenja ljudi, a niko ne obraća pažnju na vrste koje su žive, koje preživljavaju. Govorim o sinatropskim vrstama, koje su prilagođene baš na ljudsku ekologiju, poput pacova, bubašvaba i vrana. Posmatrao sam ih i video da su izuzetno prilagodljive.
And as I started looking at them, I was finding that they had hyper-adapted. They'd become extremely adept at living with us. And in return, we just tried to kill them all the time.
Izuzetno adaptirane na život sa nama. Zauzvrat, mi pokušavamo da ih istrebimo.
(Laughter)
And in doing so, we were breeding them for parasitism. We were giving them all sorts of reasons to adapt new ways. So, for example, rats are incredibly responsive breeders. And cockroaches, as anyone who's tried to get rid of them knows, have become really immune to the poisons that we're using. So I thought, let's build something that's mutually beneficial; something that we can both benefit from, and find some way to make a new relationship with these species. So I built the vending machine.
Radeći to, pretvaramo ih u parazite. Davali smo im razne razloge da razviju nove navike. Na primer, pacovi se brzo razmnožavaju. Bubašvabe su postale imune na naše otrove, što zna svako ko je pokušao da ih se otarasi. Pomislih da napravimo nešto od uzajamne koristi. Nešto što će nam oboma koristiti, i razvijemo nove odnose sa ovom vrstom, pa sam napravio automat.
But the story of the vending machine is a little more interesting if you know more about crows. It turns out, crows aren't just surviving with human beings; they're actually thriving. They're found everywhere on the planet except for the Arctic and the southern tip of South America. And in all that area, they're only rarely found breeding more than five kilometers away from human beings. So we may not think about them, but they're always around. And not surprisingly, given the human population growth, more than half of the human population is living in cities now. And out of those, nine-tenths of the human growth population is occurring in cities. We're seeing a population boom with crows. So bird counts are indicating that we might be seeing up to exponential growth in their numbers. So that's no great surprise.
Priča o automatu je zanimljivija ako znate više o vranama. One ne samo da preživaljavaju među ljudima, već vrlo uspešno to rade. Ima ih svuda osim na Severnom polu i krajnjem jugu Južne Amerike. I u svim tim regijama se retko kad razmožavaju dalje od 5 km od ljudi. Možda ne razmišljamo o njima, ali su uvek tu. Sa porastom broja ljudi, više od polovine sada živi u gradovima. Od ovoga, 9/10 populacije u porastu, živi u gradovima, pa vidimo i porast broja vrana. Broj ptica ukazuje da ćemo možda videti njihov eksponencijalni rast. Ovo ne iznenađuje.
But what was really interesting to me was to find out that the birds were adapting in a pretty unusual way. And I'll give you an example of that. This is Betty. She's a New Caledonian crow. And these crows use sticks in the wild to get insects and whatnot out of pieces of wood. Here, she's trying to get a piece of meat out of a tube. But the researchers had a problem. They messed up and left just a stick of wire in there. And she hadn't had the opportunity to do this before. You see, it wasn't working very well. So she adapted.
Meni je bilo zanimljivo da otkrijem da se ptice prilagođavaju na prilično neobičan način. Daću vam primer. Ovo je Beti, vrana iz Nove Kaledonije. Oni koriste štapove u divljini da izvade insekte i slično iz drveta. Ovde vadi komad mesa iz tube. Naučnici su imali problem. Slučajno su ostavili komad žice. Ona nikad ranije nije mogla ovo da proba. Nije joj išlo najbolje, pa se prilagodila.
Now, this is completely unprompted; she had never seen this done before. No one taught her to bend this into a hook or had shown her how it could happen. But she did it all on her own. So keep in mind -- she's never seen this done.
Ovo je bilo spontano. Nikad nije videla da se ovo radi. Niko je nije naučio da napravi kuku, kako se to radi, ali je sama otkrila. Ne zaboravite, nikad nije videla kako se ovo radi.
(Laughter)
Ok.
Right.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
Yeah. All right.
Ok.
(Applause)
(Aplauz)
So that's the part where the researchers freak out.
Ovde naučnici polude.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
It turns out, we've been finding more and more that crows are really intelligent. Their brains are in the same proportion as chimpanzee brains are. There's all kinds of anecdotes for the different kinds of intelligence they have. For example, in Sweden, crows will wait for fishermen to drop lines through holes in the ice. And when the fishermen move off, the crows fly down, reel up the lines, and eat the fish or the bait. It's pretty annoying for the fishermen.
Sve više otkrivamo da su vrane veoma inteligentne. Mozak im je proporcionalan mozgu šimpanzi. Ima anegdota o vrstama njihove inteligencije. Na primer, u Švedskoj, čekaće da ribari ubace udicu kroz rupu u ledu. Kad ribari odu, one dolete, izvuku udicu i pojedu ribu ili mamac. To prilično nervira ribare.
On an entirely different tack, at University of Washington a few years ago, they were doing an experiment where they captured some crows on campus. Some students went out, netted some crows, brought them in, weighed and measured them, and let them back out again. And they were entertained to discover that for the rest of the week, whenever these particular students walked around campus, these crows would caw at them and run around, and make their life kind of miserable.
Sa druge strane, na Univerzitetu u Vašingtonu pre par godina rađen je eksperiment u kome su uhvatili vrane sa kampusa. Studenti su izašli i uhvatili vrane, uneli unutra, merili i šta sve ne, i ponovo pustili napolje. Bilo im je zabavno da su te vrane, do kraja nedelje, kad bi se ti studenti pojavili, graktale na njih, trčale okolo i zagorčavale im život.
(Laughter)
Bilo im je manje zabavno kad se ovo nastavilo i naredne nedelje,
They were significantly less entertained when this went on for the next week. And the next month. And after summer break. Until they finally graduated and left campus, and -- glad to get away, I'm sure -- came back sometime later, and found the crows still remembered them.
i narednog meseca, i nakon letnjeg raspusta, sve dok nisu diplomirali i otišli, sigurno im je bilo drago, vratili se kasnije i videli da ih vrane nisu zaboravile. Pouka je da vrane ne treba razljutiti.
(Laughter)
So, the moral being: don't piss off crows. So now, students at the University of Washington that are studying these crows, do so with a giant wig and a big mask.
Sada studenti Univerziteta u Vašingtonu koji proučavaju ove vrane čine to uz perike i maske.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
It's fairly interesting.
Prilično interesantno.
(Laughter)
Znamo da su vrane pametne,
So we know these crows are really smart, but the more I dug into this, the more I found that they actually have an even more significant adaptation.
ali što ih duže istražujem, otkrivam da mogu još značajnije da se adaptiraju.
Video: Crows have become highly skilled at making a living in these new urban environments. In this Japanese city, they have devised a way of eating a food that normally they can't manage: drop it among the traffic. The problem now is collecting the bits, without getting run over. Wait for the light to stop the traffic. Then, collect your cracked nut in safety.
Video: vrane su postale vične životu u ovim novim urbanim sredinama. U ovom japanskom gradu su smislile kako da jedu hranu koju inače ne mogu: tako što je bace u saobraćaj. Sada treba pokupiti delove, a da te nešto ne pregazi. Čekaj da svetlo zaustavi saobraćaj, onda bezbedno pokupi delove razbijenog oraha.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
(Applause)
(Aplauz)
Joshua Klein: Yeah, pretty interesting. What's significant about this isn't that crows are using cars to crack nuts. In fact, that's old hat for crows. This happened about 10 years ago in a place called Sendai City, at a driving school in the suburbs of Tokyo. And since that time, all the crows in the neighborhood are picking up this behavior. Now every crow within five kilometers is standing by a sidewalk, waiting to collect its lunch.
Jošua Klajn: da. Vrlo interesantno. Ovde nije značajno da vrane koriste kola da lome orahe, to je njihov stari trik. Ovo se desilo pre 10 godina u Sendai sitiju, u školi za vožnju u predgrađu Tokija. Od tada, sve vrane iz kraja su usvojile ovo ponašanje. Sad sve vrane u radijusu od 5 km stoje na trotoaru i čekaju da pokupe ručak.
So they're learning from each other. And research bears this out. Parents seem to be teaching their young. They learn from their peers, they learn from their enemies. If I have a little extra time, I'll tell you about a case of crow infidelity that illustrates that nicely. The point being, they've developed cultural adaptation. And as we heard yesterday, that's the Pandora's box that's getting human beings in trouble, and we're starting to see it with them. They're able to very quickly and very flexibly adapt to new challenges and new resources in their environment, which is really useful if you live in a city.
One uče jedne od drugih. Istraživanja to dokazuju. Roditelji uče mladunce. Uče od svojih vršnjaka i neprijatelja. Da imam više vremena, ispričao bih o neverstvu vrana koje ovo lepo ilustruje. One su razvile kulturnu adaptaciju. Kao što smo juče čuli, to je ona Pandorina kutija, koja ljudima pravi problem, a vidimo je i kod njih. Sposobni su da se brzo i fleksibilno adaptiraju novim izazovima i resursima u sredini, što je korisno kad živiš u gradu.
So we know that there's lots of crows. We found out they're really smart and they can teach each other. When all this became clear, I realized the only obvious thing to do is build a vending machine. So that's what we did. This is a vending machine for crows. And it uses Skinnerian training to shape their behavior over four stages. It's pretty simple. Basically, what happens is that we put this out in a field or someplace where there's lots of crows. We put coins and peanuts all around the base of the machine. Crows eventually come by, eat the peanuts, and get used to the machine being there. Eventually, they eat all the peanuts. Then they see peanuts here on the feeder tray, and hop up and help themselves. Then they leave, the machine spits up more coins and peanuts, and life is dandy if you're a crow -- you can come back anytime and get yourself a peanut.
Znamo da ima puno vrana. Saznali smo da su pametne i da uče jedne od drugih. Kada sam ovo shvatio, jedina logična stvar je bila da napravimo automat. To smo i uradili. Ovo je automat za vrane. Koristi Skinerovo treniranje ponašanja u 4 faze. Vrlo je jednostavan. Ukratko, postavimo automat na polje, ili negde gde ima puno vrana i stavimo novčiće i kikiriki oko automata. Vrane dođu i jedu kikiriki, i naviknu se da je automat tu. Na kraju pojedu sav kikiriki. Tad vide da ima kikirikija i na tacni za hranjenje. Skoče na nju i posluže se. Onda odu, a automat izbaci još novčića i kikirikija, i život je lep ako si vrana. Mogu uvek doći i uzeti kikiriki.
So when they get really used to that, we move on to the crows coming back. Now they're used to the sound of the machine; they keep coming back and digging out peanuts from the pile of coins that's there. When they get really happy about this, we stymie them.
Kada se naviknu, fokusiramo se na vrane koje se vraćaju. Sada su se navikle na zvuk automata i vraćaju se, i vade kikiriki iz hrpe novčića. Kad se obraduju ovome, mi im otežamo stvari.
We move to the third stage, where we only give them a coin. Now, like most of us who have gotten used to a good thing, this really pisses them off. So they do what they do in nature when they're looking for something: sweep things out of the way with their beak. They do that here, and that knocks the coins down the slot. When that happens, they get a peanut. This goes on for some time. The crows learn that all they have to do is show up, wait for the coin to come out, put it in the slot, then get their peanut.
Prelazimo na treću fazu, gde im dajemo samo novčić. Kao većina koja se navikne na nešto dobro, ovo ih iritira. Tada počnu da rade ono što bi u prirodi kad traže nešto – rasklanjaju stvari kljunom. To rade i ovde, što gurne novčić niz otvor. Kada se to desi, dobiju kikiriki. To rade neko vreme. Vrane nauče da jedino treba da sačekaju da novčić ispadne, stave ga u otvor, i dobiju kikiriki. Kada se naviknu na ovo,
When they're good and comfortable with that, we move to the final stage, where they show up and nothing happens. This is where we see the difference between crows and other animals. Squirrels, for example, would show up, look for the peanut, go away. Come back, look for the peanut, go away. They do this maybe half a dozen times before they get bored, and then they go off and play in traffic.
pređemo na poslednju fazu, gde se pojave i ništa se ne desi. Ovde vidimo razliku između vrana i drugih životinja. Veverice bi se došle, tražile kikiriki i otišle. Vratile se, potražile kikiriki i otišle. Ovo rade nekih 6 puta dok im ne dosadi, onda odu da se igraju u saobraćaju. Vrane, s druge strane, dođu i pokušaju da shvate.
Crows, on the other hand, show up and they try and figure it out. They know this machine has been messing with them through three different stages of behavior.
Znaju da ih automat zeza tokom tri faze ponašanja. (Smeh)
(Laughter)
Shvate da mora imati logiku.
They figure there must be more to it. So they poke at it and peck at it. And eventually some crow gets a bright idea: "Hey, there's lots of coins lying around from the first stage, hops down, picks it up, drops it in the slot, and we're off to the races. That crow enjoys a temporary monopoly on peanuts, until his friends figure out how to do it, and then there we go.
Guraju ga, kljucaju i slično. Onda jedna dobije ideju. "Hej, tamo ima puno novčića iz prve faze koji su na zemlji". Skoči dole, pokupi ga i ubaci u otvor. I tako počinje. Ta vrana uživa u privremenom monopolu dok ostale ne shvate kako se to radi, a onda sve krenu.
So, what's significant about this to me isn't that we can train crows to pick up peanuts. Mind you, there's 216 million dollars' worth of change lost every year, but I'm not sure I can depend on that ROI from crows.
Ono što je meni važno nije da možemo istrenirati vrane da pokupe kikiriki. Iako se svake godine izgubi 216 miliona dolara u novčićima, mada sumnjam da vrane mogu vratiti taj novac.
(Laughter)
Instead, I think we should look a little bit larger. I think crows can be trained to do other things. For example, why not train them to pick up garbage after stadium events? Or find expensive components from discarded electronics? Or maybe do search and rescue? The main point of all this for me is, we can find mutually beneficial systems for these species. We can find ways to interact with these other species that doesn't involve exterminating them, but involves finding an equilibrium with them that's a useful balance.
Mislim da treba da gledamo širu sliku, da mogu naučiti i druge stvari. Zašto ih ne naučimo da kupe smeće nakon događaja na stadionima, da nađu skupe komponente u bačenoj elektronici, da tragaju za ljudima? Za mene je glavno da možemo naći sistem obostrane koristi. Možemo naći interakciju koja ne obuhvata njihovo istrebljenje već pronalaženje korisne ravnoteže.
Thanks very much.
Hvala.
(Applause)
(Aplauz)