Now, this is Joanna. Joanna works at a university in Poland. And one Saturday morning at 3am, she got up, packed her rucksack and traveled more than a thousand kilometers, only to have a political argument with a stranger. His name is Christof, and he's a customer manager from Germany. And the two had never met before. They only knew that they were totally at odds over European politics, over migration, or the relationship to Russia or whatever. And they were arguing for almost one day. And after that, Joanna sent me a somewhat irritating email. "That was really cool, and I enjoyed every single minute of it!"
Ovo je Joanna. Joanna radi na sveučilištu u Poljskoj. Jedne subote u 3 ujutro, ustala se, spakirala ruksak i krenula na put duži od tisuću kilometara samo kako bi imala političku raspravu sa strancem. Ovo je Christof, on je voditelj odnosa s korisnicima iz Njemačke. Njih dvoje se nikada ranije nisu sreli. Jedino što su znali jest da se potpuno razlikuju po pitanju europske politike, migracija, odnosa s Rusijom i tako dalje. I proveli su gotovo cijeli jedan dan u raspravljanju. Nakon toga, Joanna mi je poslala pomalo iritirajuć email. "Ovo je bilo super i uživala sam u svakoj minuti!"
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
So these are Tom from the UK and Nils from Germany. They also were strangers, and they are both supporters of their local football team, as you may imagine, Borussia Dortmund and Tottenham Hotspurs. And so they met on the very spot where football roots were invented, on some field in Cambridge. And they didn't argue about football, but about Brexit. And after talking for many hours about this contentious topic, they also sent a rather unexpected email. "It was delightful, and we both enjoyed it very much."
Ovo su Tom iz Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva i Nils iz Njemačke. I oni su bili stranci, i obojica navijaju za svoju lokalnu nogometnu momčad, možete pretpostaviti, Borussiju Dortmund i Tottenham Hotspurs. Susreli su se točno na mjestu gdje su izumljeni korijeni nogometa, na nekom igralištu u Cambridgeu. I nisu se svađali oko nogometa, nego oko Brexita. I nakon mnogo sati razgovora o toj sadržajnoj temi, i oni su poslali prilično neočekivan email. "Bilo je sjajno i obojica smo jako uživali u ovome."
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
So in spring 2019, more than 17,000 Europeans from 33 countries signed up to have a political argument. Thousands crossed their borders to meet a stranger with a different opinion, and they were all part of a project called "Europe Talks."
U proljeće 2019. godine, više od 17 tisuća Europljana iz 33 države pristalo je održati političku raspravu. Tisuće ljudi prešlo je svoje granice da susretnu stranca s drugačijim mišljenjem i svi su bili dio projekta "Europa govori".
Now, talking about politics amongst people with different opinions has become really difficult, not only in Europe. Families are splitting, friends no longer talk to each other. We stay in our bubbles. And these so-called filter bubbles are amplified by social media, but they are not, in the core, a digital product. The filter bubble has always been there. It's in our minds.
Govorenje o politici među ljudima različitih stavova postalo je vrlo složeno, ne samo u Europi. Obitelji se raspadaju, prijatelji više ne pričaju. Ostajemo u svojim izoliranim mjehurićima. A ti takozvani filtrirajući mjehurići još su pojačani društvenim mrežama, ali nisu, u osnovi, digitalni proizvod. Filtrirajući mjehurić je oduvijek bio ovdje. Postoji u našim umovima.
As many studies repeatedly have shown, we, for example, ignore effects that contradict our convictions. So correcting fake news is definitely necessary, but it's not sufficient to get a divided society to rethink itself. Fortunately, according to at least some research, there may be a simple way to get a new perspective: a personal one-on-one discussion with someone who doesn't have your opinion. It enables you to see the world in a new way, through someone else's eyes.
Kako su mnoge studije višestruko pokazale, mi primjerice zanemarujemo učinke koji se protive našim uvjerenjima. Zato je ispravljanje lažnih vijesti zasigurno potrebno, ali nije dovoljno kako bismo postigli da razdijeljeno društvo ponovo promisli o sebi. Srećom, kako pokazuje barem dio istraživanja, možda postoji jednostavan način za dobivanje svježe perspektive: osobne rasprave jedan-na-jedan, s nekim tko je drugačijeg stava od vašeg. To vam omogućava da vidite svijet na nov način, tuđim očima.
Now, I'm the editor of "ZEIT ONLINE," one of the major digital news organizations in Germany. And we started what became "Europe Talks" as a really modest editorial exercise. As many journalists, we were impressed by Trump and by Brexit, and Germany was getting divided, too, especially over the issue of migration. So the arrival of more than a million refugees in 2015 and 2016 dominated somewhat the debate. And when we were thinking about our own upcoming election in 2017, we definitely knew that we had to reinvent the way we were dealing with politics. So digital nerds that we are, we came up with obviously many very strange digital product ideas, one of them being a Tinder for politics --
Ja sam urednik "Zeit Onlinea", jedne od velikih organizacija za digitalno informiranje u Njemačkoj, i započeli smo projekt "Europa govori" kao vrlo skromnu uredničku vježbu. Poput mnogih novinara, zaprepastio nas je Trump i Brexit, a i Njemačka je postajala razdijeljenom, posebno oko pitanja migracija. Pa je tako dolazak više od jednog milijuna izbjeglica 2015. i 2016. godine ponešto prevladavao raspravom. A kada smo razmišljali o našim nadolazećim izborima 2017. godine, sa sigurnošću smo znali da trebamo ponovo razmisliti kako se nosimo s politikom. Budući da smo digitalni štreberi, jasno je da su nam pale na pamet brojne očito vrlo čudne ideje za proizvode, a jedna od njih bio je Tinder za politiku --
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
a dating platform for political opposites, a tool that could help get people together with different opinions. And we decided to test it and launched what techies would call a "minimum viable product." So it was really simple. We called it "Deutschland spricht" -- "Germany Talks" -- and we started with that in May 2017. And it was really simple. We used mainly Google Forms, a tool that each and every one of us here can use to make surveys online. And everywhere in our content, we embedded simple questions like this: "Did Germany take in too many refugees?" You click yes or no. We asked you more questions, like, "Does the West treat Russia fairly?" or, "Should gay couples be allowed to marry?" And if you answered all these questions, we asked one more question: "Hey, would you like to meet a neighbor who totally disagrees with you?"
platforma za upoznavanje političkih protivnika, alat koji bi mogao spojiti ljude različitih stavova. Odlučili smo ga testirati i izbacili smo ono što programeri zovu "proizvod najmanjih zahtjeva". Znači da je bio vrlo jednostavan. Nazvali smo ga "Njemačka govori" -- i započeli u svibnju 2017. godine. Bilo je vrlo jednostavno. Koristili smo Google Forms, alat koji svatko od nas može upotrijebiti za izradu internetskih anketa. I posvuda u sadržaju ubacivali bismo jednostavna pitanja poput ovoga: "Je li Njemačka prihvatila previše izbjeglica?" Odaberete da ili ne. Pitali smo još pitanja poput, "Odnosi li se Zapad pravedno prema Rusiji?", ili, "Treba li dozvoliti sklapanje braka istospolnim parovima?" Ako ste odgovorili na sva pitanja, pitali bismo još jedno pitanje: "Biste li željeli susresti susjeda koji se u potpunosti ne slaže s vama?"
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
So this was a really simple experiment with no budget whatsoever. We expected some hundred-ish people to register, and we planned to match them by hand, the pairs. And after one day, 1,000 people had registered. And after some weeks, 12,000 Germans had signed up to meet someone else with a different opinion. So we had a problem.
I to je bio vrlo jednostavan pokus koji uopće nije bio financiran. Očekivali smo da se prijavi stotinjak ljudi, i namjeravali smo ih upariti ručno. Nakon jednog dana prijavilo se 1000 ljudi. Nakon nekoliko tjedana, 12 tisuća Nijemaca se prijavilo da se susretnu s nekim suprotnog stava. Tako da smo imali problem.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
We hacked a quick and dirty algorithm that would find the perfect Tinder matches, like people living as close as possible having answered the questions as differently as possible. We introduced them via email. And, as you may imagine, we had many concerns. Maybe no one would show up in real life. Maybe all the discussions in real life would be awful. Or maybe we had an axe murderer in our database.
Izhakirali smo brz i prljav algoritam koji bi pronašao idealne Tinderske parove, recimo ljudi koji stanuju što je bliže moguće, a odgovorili su na pitanja što je različitije moguće. Upoznali smo ih međusobno putem emaila. I kao što možete zamisliti, imali smo mnogo briga. Možda se u stvarnosti nitko ne pojavi. Možda sve rasprave u stvarnosti budu grozne. Ili se možda pojavi ubojica sjekirom u našoj bazi podataka.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
But then, on a Sunday in June 2017, something beautiful happened. Thousands of Germans met in pairs and talked about politics peacefully. Like Anno. He's a former policeman who's against -- or was against -- gay marriage, and Anne, she's an engineer who lives in a domestic partnership with another woman. And they were talking for hours about all the topics where they had different opinions. At one point, Anno told us later, he realized that Anne was hurt by his statements about gay marriage, and he started to question his own assumptions. And after talking for three hours, Anne invited Anno to her summer party, and today, years later, they still meet from time to time and are friends.
Ali zatim, jedne nedjelje u lipnju 2017. godine, dogodilo se nešto divno. Tisuće Nijemaca susrelo se u parovima i mirno su razgovarali o politici. Primjerice Anno. On je bivši policajac koji se protivi -- ili se protivio -- istospolnom braku, i Anne, inženjerka koja živi u partnerstvu sa ženom. Satima su razgovarali o svim temama oko kojih se nisu slagali. U jednom trenutku, rekao nam je Anno, shvatio je da su Anne povrijedile njegove izjave o istospolnom braku pa je počeo propitivati svoje pretpostavke. Nakon što su pričali tri sata, Anne je pozvala Anna na svoju ljetnu zabavu, a danas, godinama kasnije, još uvijek se povremeno sastaju i sada su prijatelji.
So our algorithm matched, for example, this court bailiff. He's also a spokesperson of the right-wing populist party AfD in Germany, and this counselor for pregnant women. She used to be an active member of the Green Party. We even matched this professor and his student.
Naš algoritam je spojio, recimo, ovog sudskog pratitelja. On je također glasnogovornik desničarske populističke stranke AfD u Njemačkoj, a ovo je savjetnica za trudnice. Nekoć je bila aktivna članica Stranke zelenih. Spojili smo čak i ovog profesora s njegovim studentom.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
It's an algorithm.
To vam je algoritam!
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
We also matched a father-in-law and his very own daughter-in-law, because, obviously, they live close by but have really different opinions.
Spojili smo i svekra sa svojom vlastitom snahom, jer, očito, stanuju vrlo blizu ali imaju vrlo različita stajališta.
So as a general rule, we did not observe, record, document the discussions, because we didn't want people to perform in any way. But I made an exception. I took part myself. And so I met in my trendy Berlin neighborhood called Prenzlauer Berg, I met Mirko. This is me talking to Mirko. Mirko didn't want to be in the picture. He's a young plant operator, and he looked like all the hipsters in our area, like with a beard and a beanie. We were talking for hours, and I found him to be a wonderful person. And despite the fact that we had really different opinions about most of the topics -- maybe with the exception of women's rights, where I couldn't comprehend his thoughts -- it was really nice. After our discussion, I Googled Mirko. And I found out that in his teenage years, he used to be a neo-Nazi. So I called him and asked, "Hey, why didn't you tell me?" And he said, "You know, I didn't tell you because I want to get over it. I just don't want to talk about it anymore."
Kao opće pravilo, mi nismo promatrali, nismo snimali, nismo dokumentirali rasprave, jer nismo željeli da se ljudi ni u kojem slučaju pretvaraju. Ali napravio sam jednu iznimku. I sȃm sam sudjelovao. U svom pomodnom dijelu Berlina, imenom Prenzlauer Berg, sastao sam se s Mirkom. Ovo sam ja dok pričam s Mirkom. On nije želio biti na slici. On je mladi operator energetskog pogona i izgledao je poput svih hipstera u našem kraju, imao je bradu i vunenu kapu preko glave. Pričali smo satima i otkrio sam da je on divna osoba. Usprkos činjenici da smo imali vrlo različita mišljenja o većini tema -- možda s iznimkom prava žena, gdje nisam mogao pojmiti njegove misli -- bilo je doista lijepo. Nakon naše rasprave, potražio sam Mirka na Googleu. Otkrio sam da je kao mladić bio neonacist. Nazvao sam ga i pitao, "Hej, zašto mi nisi to rekao?" Rekao je, "Znaš, nisam ti rekao zato što želim to ostaviti iza sebe. Jednostavno ne želim više pričati o tome."
I thought that people with a history like that could never change, and I had to rethink my assumptions, as did many of the participants who sent us thousands of emails and also selfies.
Mislio sam da ljudi s takvim pričama nisu sposobni promijeniti se i morao sam ponovo razmisliti o svojim pretpostavkama, kao i mnogi sudionici koji su nam slali tisuće emailova, kao i selfieja.
No violence was recorded whatsoever.
Nije zabilježeno nikakvo nasilje.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
And we just don't know if some of the pairs got married.
I ni danas nam nije jasno jesu li se neki parovi vjenčali ili nisu.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
But, at least, we were really excited and wanted to do it again, especially in version 2.0, wanted to expand the diversity of the participants, because obviously in the first round, they were mainly our readers.
Ako ništa drugo, bili smo vrlo uzbuđeni i željeli smo to ponoviti, pogotovo u verziji 2.0, gdje smo željeli proširiti raznolikost sudionika, jer, očito, u prvom krugu sudjelovali su većinom naši čitatelji.
And so we embraced our competition and asked other media outlets to join. We coordinated via Slack. And this live collaboration among 11 major German media houses was definitely a first in Germany. The numbers more than doubled: 28,000 people applied this time. And the German president -- you see him here in the center of the picture -- became our patron. And so, thousands of Germans met again in the summer of 2018 to talk to someone else with a different opinion. Some of the pairs we invited to Berlin to a special event. And there, this picture was taken, until today my favorite symbol for "Germany Talks." You see Henrik, a bus driver and boxing trainer, and Engelbert, the director of a children's help center. They answered all of the seven questions we asked differently. They had never met before this day, and they had a really intensive discussion and seemed to get along anyway with each other.
Tako smo prigrlili svoje konkurente i pozvali ostale medijske agencije da sudjeluju. Koordinirali smo putem aplikacije Slack. Ova živahna suradnja među njemačkih 11 najvećih medijskih kuća zasigurno je bila prva u Njemačkoj. Brojke su se više nego udvostručile: ovog puta prijavilo se 28 tisuća ljudi. A predsjednik Njemačke -- vidite ga ovdje u sredini slike -- postao nam je pokroviteljem. I tako da se tisuće Nijemaca ponovo susrelo u ljeto 2018. godine kako bi pričali s nekim različitih stavova. Neke od parova pozvali smo u Berlin na poseban događaj. Ondje je snimljena ova slika, do danas moj omiljeni simbol projekta "Njemačka govori". Vidite Henrika, vozača autobusa i trenera boksa, i Engelberta, ravnatelja centra za pružanje pomoći djeci. Na svih sedam postavljenih pitanja odgovorili su suprotno. Prije tog dana nikada se nisu sreli, imali su vrlo intenzivnu raspravu, ali činilo se da se unatoč tome jako dobro slažu.
So this time we also wanted to know if the discussion would have any impact on the participants. So we asked researchers to survey the participants. And two-thirds of the participants said that they learned something about their partner's attitudes. Sixty percent agreed that their viewpoints converged. The level of trust in society seemed also higher after the event, according to the researchers. Ninety percent said that they enjoyed their discussion. Ten percent said they didn't enjoy their discussion, eight percent only because, simply, their partner didn't show up.
Ovog puta smo također htjeli znati hoće li rasprava imati ikakvog utjecaja na sudionike. Zamolili smo istraživače da ispitaju sudionike. Dvije trećine sudionika izjavilo je da su nešto naučili o stavovima svojih partnera. Šezdeset posto se složilo kako su se njihova stajališta promijenila. Činilo se i da je razina povjerenja u društvo porasla nakon događaja, rekli su istraživači. Devedeset posto izjavilo je kako su uživali u raspravi. Deset posto izjavilo je da nisu uživali u raspravi, od čega osam posto jednostavno zbog toga što se njihov partner nije pojavio.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
After "Germany Talks," we got approached by many international media outlets, and we decided this time to build a serious and secure platform. We called it "My Country Talks." And in this short period of time, "My Country Talks" has already been used for more than a dozen local and national events like "Het grote gelijk" in Belgium or "Suomi puhuu" in Finland or "Britain Talks" in the UK. And as I mentioned at the beginning, we also launched "Europe Talks," together with 15 international media partners, from the "Financial Times" in the UK to "Helsingin Sanomat" in Finland. Thousands of Europeans met with a total stranger to argue about politics. So far, we have been approached by more than 150 global media outlets, and maybe someday there will be something like "The World Talks," with hundreds of thousands of participants.
Nakon projekta "Njemačka govori", obratile su nam se mnoge svjetske agencije, i ovog puta odlučili smo izgraditi ozbiljnu i sigurnu platformu. Nazvali smo je "Moja država govori". U ovom kratkom razdoblju, platforma je već bila iskorištena za više od 12 lokalnih i nacionalnih događaja, poput "Het grote gelijk" u Belgiji ili "Suomi puhuu" u Finskoj, ili "Britanija govori" u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu. Kao što sam spomenuo na početku, također smo pokrenuli "Europa govori" zajedno s 15 međunarodnih medijskih partnera, od "Financial Timesa" u UK-u do "Helsingin Sanomata" u Finskoj. Tisuće Europljana susrelo se s potpunim strancem kako bi raspravljali o politici. Dosad nam se obratilo više od 150 svjetskih medijskih agencija, i možda ćemo jednog dana imati nešto poput projekta "Svijet govori", sa stotinama tisuća sudionika.
But what matters here are not the numbers, obviously. What matters here is ... Whenever two people meet to talk in person for hours without anyone else listening, they change. And so do our societies. They change little by little, discussion by discussion. What matters here is that we relearn how to have these face-to-face discussions, without anyone else listening, with a stranger. Not only with a stranger we are introduced to by a Tinder for politics, but also with a stranger in a pub or in a gym or at a conference.
Ali ovdje nisu toliko važne brojke, to je očito. Ovdje je važno... Kad god se dvoje ljudi sastane kako bi satima pričali oči u oči, a da ih pritom nitko drugi ne sluša, oni se promijene. A tako se mijenjaju i naša društva. Mijenjaju se malo po malo, raspravu po raspravu. Ovdje je bitno da ponovo naučimo kako imati ovakve osobne rasprave, kada nitko drugi ne sluša, sa strancem. Ne samo sa strancem kojeg smo upoznali putem Tindera za politiku, nego i sa strancem u kafiću ili u teretani ili na konferenciji.
So please meet someone and have an argument and enjoy it very much.
Molim vas da upoznate nekoga, posvađajte se i jako uživajte pri tome.
Thank you.
Hvala.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
Wow!
Oho!
(Applause)
(Pljesak)