Pat Mitchell: It's so great to see you, my friend.
帕特·米切爾: 真高興見到你,我的朋友。
Jane Fonda: Hi Pat. It's great to be with you.
珍·芳達: 帕特,見到你很開心。
PM: Jane, for the ones who may not have seen the extraordinary coverage around the world of Fire Drill Fridays and the impact that they have already had, talk to us about the origin of this idea, this particular response to the climate crisis.
帕:珍,我們看到了 「週五消防演習」活動 得到的全球性關注 還有它巨大的影響力, 跟我們說說這個活動的想法吧, 這個針對氣候危機的回應。
JF: I was very inspired by Greta Thunberg, the Swedish student, and by the young school climate strikers. Greta says we've got to get out of our comfort zone. We have to behave like our house is burning, because it is. And so she really struck a chord in me. And then, learning that just about 100 percent of climate scientists agree. They agree that a drastic emergency is upon us, that it is human-caused. But they said we can do something about it. We have the time, the technology, the tools. We have everything we need except political will to meet the challenge, and it's an enormous challenge. We have 11 years, many say, a decade, and I thought, "Oh, I'm so lucky that I am healthy and living in a decade where we who are alive can actually make the difference. We can make the difference as to whether there's going to be a livable future or not. What a glorious responsibility we have. We have to step up to the plate."
珍:我被瑞典女孩格蕾塔·童貝里 還有年輕的抗議學生們深深打動。 格蕾塔說我們必須跳出舒適圈, 我們對待氣候要像對待着火的家, 因為事實確實如此。 這引起了我的共鳴。 接著,我發現 幾乎所有的科學家都同意 目前的氣候情況十分危急, 且這是人類自造的。 但他們說, 我們可以做些什麼。 我們有時間,我們有科技, 我們有工具, 我們什麼都不缺, 除了應對氣候挑戰的政治意願, 而這是巨大的挑戰。 很多人說,我們還有 11 年 能夠健康健康生存, 我想, 我是幸運的, 因為我健康地活在一個 今人能真正作出改變的時代。 我們的改變, 影響著我們未來能否生存。 這是多麼光榮的責任! 我們要站出來,勇敢發聲。
And when you're famous, there's a lot of things that you can do. You have a bigger platform. So I decided that, like Greta, I was going to put my body on the line and move to the center of American power, Washington, DC, and have a rally every Friday like the students do. And we work with the students. They speak at my rallies, and I speak at their rallies. And then after we speak, we engage in civil disobedience and risk getting arrested. Civil disobedience is a powerful tool that has changed history many times, both in the United States in the '60s during the civil rights movement, of course in India with Mahatma Gandhi. And I didn't know in the beginning if it was going to work or not, but it's made me very happy to see what's happening.
當你名氣很高, 你能做的事就有很多, 你有更廣闊的平臺。 於是我決定像格蕾塔那樣, 我要衝上戰線, 走向美國的權力中心華盛頓特區, 像學生們那樣,每週五來一次集會。 我們與學生協作, 他們在我的集會發言, 我也在他們的集會發言。 發言過後, 我們冒著被捕的風險, 投身公民不服從運動。 公民不服從是強大的政治權利, 它曾多次改變歷史, 不管是 60 年代的 非裔美國人民權運動, 還是甘地在印度的不合作運動。 一開始我不知道這是否有用, 但我很高興見證了 正在發生的事情。
PM: It's also led to your being arrested -- multiple times, actually, spending at least a night or two in Washington, DC jails. And while all of us, I think, recognize the emergency and the actions that you so kindly mentioned others have taken, I'm not sure that we would put our bodies at risk, our lives, our careers and our lives on hold, as you have done. Do you have any concerns about that at this point?
帕:這個運動也導致你被捕—— 很多次,事實上, 你還在華盛頓特區的監獄裡 至少度過了一兩個夜晚。 我想大家都認識到了情況危急, 也看到了其他人氣候抗議的行動, 但我不確定大家都能像你一樣, 願意冒風險, 賭上生活、職業, 所以會有顧慮。 你對這點怎麼看?
JF: Well, I realize that not everybody can leave work and go and do what I'm doing. But I must say that requests are pouring in, not only from around the United States but from other countries, people who want to start Fire Drill Fridays. And the people who are coming and getting arrested with me and engaging with civil disobedience, many of them have never done it before, and they find it to be transformative. But the fact is that there are so many things that people can do, starting with talking about it, expressing how you feel about it and talking about it, even when it's uncomfortable. At a holiday dinner table and maybe Uncle Bob doesn't agree, but, you know, maybe Uncle Bob is worried about his grandkids, maybe he loves birds. There's always a way in with people to get them to feel concerned about the climate crisis. Of course, voting is very, very important, and we have to vote for the people that are the bravest, the boldest of our elected officials, because the task ahead of us -- all over the world, but certainly here in the United States -- we have to get rid of this current administration, and we have to elect people that are really brave, that will step up --
珍:我意識到,不是所有人 都能拋下工作,投身運動, 加入我們的活動, 但舉行抗議活動的呼聲正不斷涌來, 不僅來自美國, 還來自其他國家。 大家想要舉行「週五消防演習」。 那些參加公民不服從, 和我一起被捕的人, 很多之前都沒參加過抗議活動, 他們認為這是一場變革。 事實上,大家能做的還有很多, 從開始談論氣候危機開始。 表達你的感受,談論它, 即便是在不太合適的場合。 比如在假日聚餐的餐桌上談論, 也許鮑勃舅舅不大同意, 但也許鮑勃舅舅擔心他的孫子, 或許他喜歡小鳥, 你總會找到一個切入角度, 來讓他們關心氣候危機。 當然,投票也非常非常重要。 我們要把票投給最勇敢的人, 投給當選官員中最大膽的那個。 因為擺在我們面前的任務, 對於全世界,特別是美國, 是要擺脫現今的行政機構, 選出真正的勇敢者, 他會全力以赴,
(Applause)
(掌聲)
and do the bold actions that are needed, the way Franklin Delano Roosevelt did during the 1930s, during the Great Depression, when he really changed a great deal about American society. And that's what is needed now.
做出壯舉,像富蘭克林·羅斯福那樣, 他在 19 世紀 30 年代, 經濟大蕭條的時代, 真正讓美國社會天翻地覆。 這正是當今社會需要的。
PM: So Jane, we should also explain, because many people who are here are thinking, what can they do? Can they come to Washington and join you in this action? We should explain, not everyone who participates in Fire Drill Fridays is under threat of being arrested. There are other parts of what you're doing, like you are currently in the Greenpeace offices in Washington. So explain what else is a part of Fire Drill Fridays and how we could participate in civil disobedience without the risk of getting arrested.
帕:我們還要向大家說明, 因為在座的很多人在想, 他們能做些什麼? 他們能到華盛頓加入你的行動嗎? 我們要向大家解釋, 不是所有「週五消防演習」的參與者 都會有被捕的危險。 還有其他方面的工作可以選擇, 像是你們現在, 坐在綠色和平組織的辦公室。 所以和我們說說 「週五消防演習」活動的其他部分, 我們如何在不會被捕的情況下, 參與公民不服從。
JF: First of all, you want to try not do anything as a lone individual. You know, it's by our powers combined. There's strength in numbers. There's also community in numbers, and one of the hardest things about what we're facing now is: this is a collective crisis, coming at a time when the whole notion of the collective, of the commons, of the public sphere, is being eroded quite deliberately by neoliberalism and conservatism. And so reconnecting with groups of people, like-minded people in a common action, is solace to the soul. It gives you such strength. It's a great antidote to depression. So find out what organizations that are concerned about the climate crisis are in your area. Of course, Greenpeace has chapters all around the world. And even if you just start yourself, have house parties, invite people over to talk about what's happening. Find an article that you can all read and discuss together. Obviously, if there's a climate action where you live, try to join it. It's not necessary to engage in civil disobedience and risk getting arrested, but it is going to become the new normal, I think. It feels like it is here in DC with Fire Drill Fridays. People seem to want to come back and do it again. My grandkids just got arrested last weekend. It was a transformative experience.
珍:首先你要知道, 單靠一個人是做不到的, 因為這需要團結衆力, 人多能匯聚力量, 能形成團結。 我們面臨的一個難關就是, 這是一次集體危機, 而當前所有的集體概念, 不論民衆、公共領域, 都被新自由主義 和保守主義刻意撕裂。 因此,重新團結起來, 集結志趣相投的人, 是對心靈的慰藉, 是解救絕望的力量。 所以瞭解一下你的身邊 有哪些關心氣候危機的組織。 當然,綠色和平在全球都有分會。 你甚至可以從家庭派對開始, 邀請大家談論氣候變化。 找到你們能共同閱讀和討論的報導。 如果你住的地方有氣候抗議運動, 試着加入他們。 雖說冒著被捕的風險 參加公民不服從 並不是必須的, 但我認為這將成為一種新常態。 人們參加了華盛頓的 「週五消防演習」後, 他們想要回來,再參加一次。 我的孫子上個週末剛剛被捕。 這是次變革性的經歷。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
My fellow actor Sam Waterston, who is a self-described centrist, he had never spoken at a rally or risked getting arrested, and he was arrested with me. Last week, I see that he was arrested at the Harvard-Yale game. He sent me a picture of himself in handcuffs, saying, "Now look what you started!"
我的演員朋友山姆·華特斯頓, 他自稱是中間派, 他從不在集會上演講, 也不想冒被捕的風險。 但他最近和我一起被捕。 上週,他在哈佛-耶魯球賽的 氣候抗議活動被捕。 他發給我一張銬著手銬的圖, 說:「瞧你幹的好事!」
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
You know, we're at a point, I think, in this crisis where people are looking to take the next step. They want to put their bodies on the line, as Greta Thunberg has exhorted us to do. And they find it very rewarding, and they want to do it again. So I think that this is good, what we're doing. I met with the Senate [Climate Change Task Force] a few weeks ago, and I asked the senators, "Is there something else we should be doing? Should we be doing more?" And Senator Ed Markey said to me, "You're building an army. That's what we need. Make it bigger. We need pressure from the outside." And I think that's true all over the world. People need to be amassing armies for the climate, armies for the environment, in the streets, shutting down governments if necessary. I'm thinking of Brazil right now. You know, we can't allow the burning of our precious rainforests.
我們正處於一個節點, 人們積極探索著下一步, 他們想要投身戰線, 就像格蕾塔·童貝里 號召我們做的那樣。 他們感到振奮, 他們想要再次參與。 所以我認為我們做著一件很好的事。 幾週前我去見了參議院的 氣候變化負責小組, 我問參議員: 「我們還能做什麼? 我們是否還應做更多?」 參議員埃德·馬基告訴我: 「你在集結一支隊伍, 這正是我們需要的, 壯大隊伍, 我們需要外部的壓力。」 我認為這在全世界都適用。 我們要集結成團結、龐大的隊伍, 為氣候和環境而戰。 走上街頭, 若有必要,讓政府停止運作。 想一想巴西亞馬遜, 我們怎能容許大火吞噬珍貴的雨林?
PM: And as you have done so many times in the past, Jane, you are leading these changes. Eventually, one assumes, especially the fans of "Grace and Frankie," that you will go back to your life and resume that program. But will Fire Drill Fridays continue?
帕:你為氣候危機做了很多事, 你正領導著這場變革, 特別是一些《同妻俱樂部》的粉絲, [珍·芳達主演的電視劇] 猜想你會終究會回歸原來的生活, 繼續演藝事業。 那麼「週五消防演習」活動會繼續嗎?
JF: Well, there's been such an interest in it, as I said, from all around the country, people asking if they can start one. And, you know, I have a lot of celebrity friends who haven't, for scheduling reasons, been able to come to DC, so we're thinking about maybe doing it in Los Angeles. But I just want to correct one thing: I'm not leading. It's the young people, it's the students that are leading. It's always the young people that step up with the courage, and it's pretty amazing, because they're risking a lot. It's pretty brave to take a Friday off from school. You could get bad grades. You could make your teachers mad. But they're doing it anyway. There have been millions of them at a time, all around the world. And they're saying, "Don't let us have to deal with this by ourselves. We didn't create this problem. Come and help us." So, Grandmas unite!
珍:像我說的那樣, 全世界對此都有熱情, 人們問我他們能否也舉行。 並且,我有很多明星朋友, 他們因為行程關係沒能來華盛頓。 所以我們考慮在洛杉磯舉行一次。 但是我要澄清一件事, 我不是那個領導者, 年輕人、學生才是, 永遠是年輕人勇敢站出來, 他們真的很了不起, 他們冒了很大風險。 在週五翹課去抗議真的很勇敢, 他們可能會得糟糕的課業成績, 可能會惹老師生氣, 但他們仍選擇做了。 那時候全世界百萬的學生 都在為氣候抗議, 他們說: 「別讓我們獨自處理這件事, 這又不是我們製造的問題, 快來幫助我們!」 所以,奶奶團來啦!
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
(Applause)
(掌聲)
PM: And you are in a city that is probably more divided than it has been in a very long time. The polarities that exist there and in many other places around the world have kept our collective strength from being unified and used, and in that way, you have been leading us. What would success look like to you from Fire Drill Fridays?
帕:華盛頓是一座分裂的城市, 長久以來都存在著異見。 而世界上許多其他地方, 因為統一與和諧 而形成了團結的力量。 對於你領導的「週五消防演習」, 你所期待的成功是什麼樣的?
JF: Well, I can just speak as a citizen of the United States. Success would look like every state stops all new fossil fuel expansion, because if they keep drilling and fracking and mining, the problem will just get worse, so that no matter what we do with windmills and solar collectors and so forth, we'll never be able to catch up. We have to stop all new expansion. The other thing is, they would phase out fossil fuel emissions gradually, making sure that the workers who would be impacted would be retrained at union wages and get good new union jobs. There are going to be so many good jobs with the Green New Deal, building windmills and solar collectors, retrofitting all the houses in this country, for example, laying a new energy grid. There's tens of millions of jobs waiting to be unleashed, and that's the other thing that has gotten me mobilized.
珍:我從一個普通美國公民的角度說, 期待的結果應該是, 所有州停止擴充新的化石燃料, 因為如果他們持續開採, 問題會變得更加嚴峻。 不管我們怎麼改進風能、太陽能發電, 都不可能趕上能源衰竭的速度。 我們必須停止開採。 另外, 所有州逐漸停止化石燃料的排放, 並確保工作受影響的工人 帶工會工薪接受職業再訓練, 得到新的工會工作。 綠色新政將催生很多好職業, 修建風車、太陽能板, 改造全美國的房子, 比如鋪設新能源網路。 成千上萬的新崗位將會湧現, 這是我的又一個動力。
A Green New Deal is a framework for how to take ourselves into the future in a way that's sustainable and equitable. So that just gives you such hope, because if we do it right, it's going to be a win-win for everyone. And that has to be the case, or it won't work, because to make this work, everybody's going to have to be involved. And in order for everybody to be involved, they have to see something in it for themselves, and that's what a Green New Deal does.
綠色新政是一個可持續的、公平的 面向未來的框架, 它帶給我們希望, 因為如果我們好好去做, 這將是一場雙贏, 且這是唯一選擇。 因為要想做好,所有人都需參與, 而要想所有人都參與, 就必須讓他們為自己得到一些好處。 這正是綠色新政做的。
PM: Jane, you, as always --
帕:珍,就像——
(Applause)
(掌聲)
as you have done so many times in your life, you have taken risk, and you have stepped up to the front lines. Do you leave this experience with any new learning or a new level of commitment, hope or optimism?
像你多次做的那樣, 你冒著風險, 奮不顧身地站出來。 這個經歷讓你新學到什麼? 進一步承諾,或更 懷抱希望,更樂觀嗎?
JF: Yeah, I am optimistic. People in this country are really scared about the climate crisis, and they want to do something, but nobody has asked them. We just have to ask them. We have to get organized, you know? And we can do that. So I feel very hopeful. I must say that I am going to go back to work on "Grace and Frankie," but part of my heart is going to be with Fire Drill Fridays, and I hope I can continue with that. I just think that we do have to build an army. This coming year is the critical year. What happens is going to be so important. So we have to be sure, especially someone who's healthy, who feels relatively young, who has a platform -- we have to use it in every possible way we can. And if I didn't have that, then I would find other little ways that I could do it: talk to my neighbors, talk to my friends, talk to my family, join an organization. That's how, also, as I've said, to stave off depression, is to do something active.
珍:是的,我更樂觀了, 這個國家很擔心氣候危機, 每個人都想做些什麼, 但沒人向他們發出過請求, 我們只需要請求他們加入, 我們要團結起來, 我們能做到, 所以我感覺充滿希望。 我確實會回歸《同妻俱樂部》的拍攝, 但我永遠牽掛著「週五消防演習」, 我希望能繼續這事, 我們真的需要組成一支隊伍。 接下來的一年是關鍵的一年, 一切將要發生的事無比重要, 我們要確保, 特別是那些健康的人、 年輕的人、 擁有平臺的人, 我們要確保抓住每一個機會。 如果我沒有這些能力, 我會尋找其他方式做出貢獻, 同鄰居說,同朋友說, 同家人說, 加入環保組織。 停止失望的方式, 就是去積極地做些什麼。
PM: Jane, at 81, you are modeling what that can be like for sure, and I think we just recruited a new army.
帕:珍,你正向我們展示 81 歲的人可以是什麼樣的, 我想我們的隊伍多了一些新人。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
Thank you very much, my friend. Stay safe. Thank you for all that you have done for the planet and so much else.
謝謝你,我的朋友。 注意安全。 帕:感謝你為環保做出的貢獻。 珍:謝謝你。
JF: Thank you, Pat.
PM: Join me in thanking Jane.
一起謝謝她。
(Applause)
(掌聲)