Tyler Dewar: The way I feel right now is that all of the other speakers have said exactly what I wanted to say. (Laughter) And it seems that the only thing left for me to say is to thank you all for your kindness.
我現在的感覺是, 其他的演説者 已經把我想說的都說完了。 (笑聲) 現在看起來,唯一要補充的是, 謝謝大家對我的親切。
TD: But maybe in the spirit of appreciating the kindness of you all, I could share with you a little story about myself.
為了感謝大家 對我的親切及好意, 我想跟大家分享 關於我的一個小故事。
TD: From the time I was very young, onward, I was given a lot of different responsibilities, and it always seemed to me, when I was young, that everything was laid out before me. All of the plans for me were already made. I was given the clothes that I needed to wear and told where I needed to be, given these very precious and holy looking robes to wear, with the understanding that it was something sacred or important.
從很年輕的時候開始, 我就被賜予了 很多的責任。 在我年輕的時候,我總覺得 所有的事別人都替我決定好了, 我所有的計劃都有人訂好了, 我穿的衣服也都有人準備好, 並告訴我該出席什麽場合; 而為了出席這些場合, 也有人為我準備珍貴莊嚴的法袍, 我當然很清楚, 那是十分神聖和莊重的事。
TD: But before that kind of formal lifestyle happened for me, I was living in eastern Tibet with my family. And when I was seven years old, all of a sudden, a search party arrived at my home. They were looking the next Karmapa, and I noticed they were talking to my mom and dad, and the news came to me that they were telling me that I was the Karmapa. And these days, people ask me a lot, how did that feel. How did that feel when they came and whisked you away, and your lifestyle completely changed? And what I mostly say is that, at that time, it was a pretty interesting idea to me. I thought that things would be pretty fun and there would be more things to play with.
但是在那種正式的生活型態以前, 我跟我的家人住在西藏東部, 那時我只有七歲。 突然間, 有一隊搜索人馬來到我家, 他們在找下一世的大寶法王噶瑪巴。 我看到他們在和我爸媽說話, 之後他們進來告訴我這個消息, 說我就是大寶法王噶瑪巴。 一直以來,常常有人問到, 我當初的感覺怎麽樣。 “當他們進來匆匆把你帶走,並完全改變了你的生活, 你覺得怎麽樣?” 我的回答大部分是: 剛開始的時候, 我覺得挺有趣的。 我以爲一切會變得很好玩, 也會有很多東西可以玩。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
TD: But it didn't turn out to be so fun and entertaining, as I thought it would have been. I was placed in a pretty strictly controlled environment. And immediately, a lot of different responsibilities, in terms of my education and so forth, were heaped upon me. I was separated, largely, from my family, including my mother and father. I didn't have have many personal friends to spend time with, but I was expected to perform these prescribed duties. So it turned out that my fantasy about an entertaining life of being the Karmapa wasn't going to come true. It more felt to be the case to me that I was being treated like a statue, and I was to sit in one place like a statue would.
結果事情變得沒有我想像中 那麽有趣和好玩。 我被安置在 一個高度管制的環境裏, 很快地, 有很多責任-- 像我該受的教育等,接踵而來。 大部分的時間,我是和家人隔離的, 我無法見我的父母, 我沒有自己的朋友, 沒人能陪伴我, 大家期望我獨自一個人去 承擔這些任務。 所以,我想像中的 大寶法王噶瑪巴有趣的生活, 是不會發生的了。 我覺得那時 周圍的人把我當成一尊雕像, 我必須在安排的時間地點裏, 像個雕像般坐在那兒。
TD: Nevertheless, I felt that, even though I've been separated from my loved ones -- and, of course, now I'm even further away. When I was 14, I escaped from Tibet and became even further removed from my mother and father, my relatives, my friends and my homeland. But nevertheless, there's no real sense of separation from me in my heart, in terms of the love that I feel for these people. I feel, still, a very strong connection of love for all of these people and for the land.
然而,我覺得, 雖然那時我無法見我的親友-- 當然我現在又離他們更遠了。 當我十四歲逃離西藏後, 又更遠離 我的父母、 我的親戚、朋友、 和我的故鄉。 然而, 在我的心中,我對他們的愛, 並沒有因爲距離 而有所間斷。 我仍然覺得和這些人之間, 有很強烈的愛的連繫, 包括對西藏也是。
TD: And I still do get to keep in touch with my mother and father, albeit infrequently. I talk to my mother once in a blue moon on the telephone. And my experience is that, when I'm talking to her, with every second that passes during our conversation, the feeling of love that binds us is bringing us closer and closer together.
我仍然 跟我的父母有聯絡, 雖然不是很頻繁。 我跟我母親, 很久很久才通一次電話。 我的經驗是, 每當我跟她通話的時候, 儘管通話時間 一分一秒的過去, 我們之間的愛, 卻把我們更緊密地聯繫在一起。
TD: So those were just a few remarks about my personal background. And in terms of other things that I wanted to share with you, in terms of ideas, I think it's wonderful to have a situation like this, where so many people from different backgrounds and places can come together, exchange their ideas and form relationships of friendship with each other. And I think that's symbolic of what we're seeing in the world in general, that the world is becoming smaller and smaller, and that all of the peoples in the world are enjoying more opportunities for connection. That's wonderful, but we should also remember that we should have a similar process happening on the inside. Along with outward development and increase of opportunity, there should be inward development and deepening of our heart connections as well as our outward connections. So we spoke and we heard some about design this week. I think that it's important for us to remember that we need to keep pushing forward on the endeavor of the design of the heart. We heard a lot about technology this week, and it's important for us to remember to invest a lot of our energy in improving the technology of the heart.
所以,這是我個人背景故事的 一些說明。 至於,我想跟你們分享的, 是一些看法。 我認爲能有像今天這樣的場合是好的, 能有這麽多來自不同地方不同地方背景的人 聚集在這裡, 來交換意見想法、 來建立友誼和關係。 而這也正象徵著 我們住的真實世界裏的情景, 隨著這世界越變越小, 所有的人們, 也能有更多的機會互相建立關係, 這真是一件美好的事。 但我們也該記得, 要讓相同的過程在内心裏發生。 隨著外在的發展 和逐漸增加的機會, 也該有對應的内在的發展, 使我們的心靈能更緊密地連結在一起, 如同外在的連結一樣。 在這個星期裏, 我們聼到了有關設計的演説, 我認爲我們應該要記得, 我們需要 不斷地向前 努力地追求 心的設計。 我們也聽到了很多有關科技的演講, 同時我們也必須切記, 把我們的精力 用在改進心的科技。
TD: So, even though I'm somewhat happy about the wonderful developments that are happening in the world, still, I feel a sense of impediment, when it comes to the ability that we have to connect with each other on a heart-to-heart, or a mind-to-mind, level. I feel that there are some things that are getting in the way.
所以雖然在某個程度上, 我對世間這些發展感到高興, 但是在另一方面, 我還覺得有所欠缺, 那就是我們 與其他人做心對心、或精神上連繫的能力上還有所不足。 我覺得在這方面, 還有一些障礙存在。
TC: My relationship to this concept of heart-to-heart connection, or mind-to-mind connection, is an interesting one, because, as a spiritual leader, I'm always attempting to open my heart to others and offer myself up for heart-to-heart and mind-to-mind connections in a genuine way with other people, but at the same time, I've always been advised that I need to emphasize intelligence over the heart-to-heart connections, because, being someone in a position like mine, if I don't rely primarily on intelligence, then something dangerous may happen to me. So it's an interesting paradox at play there. But I had a really striking experience once, when a group from Afghanistan came to visit me, and we had a really interesting conversation.
我和這種“心對心”、 ”精神層面上的連繫“的關係, 是挺耐人尋味的, 因爲,身為一個精神領袖, 我常會不由自主地 對他人敞開心胸、奉獻自我、 誠心誠意地對待他人, 以便建立這種心對心的連繫。 但在同時, 別人也常告訴我, 我應該強調理智, 甚於強調心靈的連接; 因爲,身在我這個位子的人, 如果不依賴理智去思考, 便有可能發生危險的事。 所以我常面對著這種兩難的局面。 但是有一次我有一個有趣的經驗, 有一群人從阿富汗 來拜訪我, 我們進行了一段很有趣的對話。
TD: So we ended up talking about the Bamiyan Buddhas, which, as you know, were destroyed some years ago in Afghanistan. But the basis of our conversation was the different approach to spirituality on the part of the Muslim and Buddhist traditions. Of course, in Muslim, because of the teachings around the concept of idolatry, you don't find as many physical representations of divinity or of spiritual liberation as you do in the Buddhist tradition, where, of course, there are many statues of the Buddha that are highly revered. So, we were talking about the differences between the traditions and what many people perceived as the tragedy of the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas, but I offered the suggestion that perhaps we could look at this in a positive way. What we saw in the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas was the depletion of matter, some solid substance falling down and disintegrating. Maybe we could look at that to be more similar to the falling of the Berlin Wall, where a divide that had kept two types of people apart had collapsed and opened up a door for further communication. So I think that, in this way, it's always possible for us to derive something positive that can help us understand one another better.
我們最後談到了巴米揚大佛, 如同衆人所知, 巴米揚大佛幾年前被炸毀了。 但是我們談話的主題, 是回教世界 和佛教世界 對靈性不同的看法。 當然,對回教徒而言, 任何形式的偶像崇拜都是被禁止的, 所以你看不到 像佛教傳統裏那麽多的 神佛雕像或 象徵心靈崇拜的實體。 在佛教傳統裏,當然, 佛的雕像是被尊重的。 所以,我們談論的是 不同傳統的差異。 在很多人的眼裏, 巴米揚大佛被摧毀是一件大悲劇, 但我提出以下的建議, 或許我們能夠用更正向的角度來看待這件事。 我們在巴米揚大佛被摧毀的事件裏, 看到的是一個實體的耗損, 一些堅固物質的 崩裂和瓦解。 我們也可以想想類似的事件: 柏林圍牆的瓦解。 一度隔絕兩個社會的 高牆倒下了, 一道新的門卻打開了, 讓進一步的溝通變得可能。 所以我覺得,以這樣的角度去看, 我們總是可以從任何事情裡, 學習到正向的經驗, 讓我們更能了解對方。
TD: So, with regard to the development that we've been talking about here at this conference, I really feel that the development that we make shouldn't create a further burden for us as human beings, but should be used to improve our fundamental lifestyle of how we live in the world.
關於發展, 我們在這個研討會裏 談了很多的發展, 我真的覺得, 任何新的發展, 都不該為人類 帶來新的負擔, 而是該用來 來改進 我們基本的生活形態, 或是我們生活的方式。
TD: Of course, I rejoice in the development and the growth and the rise of the noble land of India, the great country of India, but at the same time, I think, as some of us have acknowledged, we need to be aware that some aspects of this rise are coming at the cost of the very ground on which we stand. So, as we are climbing the tree, some of the things that we're doing in order to climb the tree are actually undermining the tree's very root. And so, what I think it comes down to is a question of, not only having information of what's going on, but paying attention to that and letting that shift our motivation to become more sincere and genuinely positive. We have hear, this week, about the horrible sufferings, for example, that so many women of the world are enduring day-to-day. We have that information, but what often happens to us is that we don't really choose to pay attention to it. We don't really choose to allow that to cause there to be a shift in our hearts. So I think the way forward for the world -- one that will bring the path of outer development in harmony with the real root of happiness -- is that we allow the information that we have to really make a change in our heart.
當然,關於印度的發展、 成長崛起、成爲一個偉大的國家, 我也很替你們感到高興。 但在同時, 很多人也注意到了, 我覺得我們必須瞭解, 成長背後 所付出的代價, 可能會傷害 我們賴以爲生的這塊土地。 正如同爬一棵樹, 我們為了要爬上樹梢 所做的某些事, 事實上會對這棵樹的樹根 造成傷害。 所以我認爲, 追根究底地來説, 我們不止要去擁有最新的資訊, 還要真的去注意背後的訊息, 由此來改變我們的動機, 讓它變得更真誠、 也更正向。 例如說,在這個禮拜的一個演講裏, 我們聼到了一個駭人聽聞的故事, 內容是說每天都有很多的婦女, 日復一日地忍受著折磨。 我們知道了這個資訊, 但是最常見的結果是, 我們選擇不去注意這個資訊。 之所以選擇不去注意, 是因爲我們不想為此而心情受影響。 所以我認爲,世界進步的方向, 不止是要讓外在的發展 和快樂的根源 同步協調, 還要讓 我們擁有的資訊, 真正地改變我們的内心。
TD: So I think that sincere motivation is very important for our future well-being, or deep sense of well-being as humans, and I think that means sinking in to whatever it is you're doing now. Whatever work you're trying to do now to benefit the world, sink into that, get a full taste of that.
所以我認爲,真心的動機 對我們未來的福址 或是人類深切的幸福感是十分重要的, 真心的動機是全新投入 在你現在在做的事。 不管你現在在做什麽有利於全世界的事, 儘管去做, 讓你有深刻的體驗。
TD: So, since we've been here this week, we've taken millions of breaths, collectively, and perhaps we haven't witnessed any course changes happening in our lives, but we often miss the very subtle changes. And I think that sometimes we develop grand concepts of what happiness might look like for us, but that, if we pay attention, we can see that there are little symbols of happiness in every breath that we take.
這一個禮拜來,我們都在這裡, 我們一起做了幾百萬次的呼吸; 雖然到現在, 還沒看到任何 發生在我們生命裏的改變, 但是我們常常看不出細微的改變。 我也認爲, 有時候我們會去 勾勒一大堆 我們認爲的 “幸福”的模樣, 但是,如果我們注意去看、去體會, 就會發現,在我們每一次的呼氣吸氣中, 也都有小小的幸福徵兆呢。
TD: So, every one of you who has come here is so talented, and you have so much to offer to the world, I think it would be a good note to conclude on then to just take a moment to appreciate how fortunate we are to have come together in this way and exchanged ideas and really form a strong aspiration and energy within ourselves that we will take the good that has come from this conference, the momentum, the positivity, and we will spread that and plant it in all of the corners of the world.
今天來到這裡的每個人, 都是很有才能的, 你們能對這世界作出很多貢獻。 在結束我的演説以前, 我想花一些時間來 感激這個因緣, 我們很幸運能來這裡互相交換意見, 並在我們的心裏 產生很強的靈感和能量, 我們也會將這研討會内 產生的好的結果、 好的動量、正向的事, 散播出去;在世界的各個角落, 種下正向的因。
His Holiness the Karmapa: Tomorrow is my Talk.
大寶法王噶瑪巴:明天是我的演講。
TD: Lakshmi has worked incredibly hard, even in inviting me, let alone everything else that she has done to make this happen, and I was somewhat resistant at times, and I was also very nervous throughout this week. I was feeling under the weather and dizzy and so forth, and people would ask me, why. I would tell them, "It's because I have to talk tomorrow." And so Lakshmi had to put up with me through all of that, but I very much appreciate the opportunity she's given me to be here. And to you, everyone, thank you very much.
Lakshmi 很努力地做了很多事, 包括邀請了我, 還在背後做了很多的準備, 才能讓這一切發生。 一開始的時候我還有些抗拒, 這一個禮拜以來,我也一直都很緊張, 我覺得身體不適、頭暈等等的。 大家問我是怎麽了, 我都說“因爲明天我要演講”。 Lakshmi 也一直在容忍我, 但是我很感激 她給了我這個機會, 來這裡演講。 謝謝每個人,很感謝。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
HH: Thank you very much.
大寶法王噶瑪巴:謝謝大家。
(Applause)
(掌聲)