This will not be a speech like any one I have ever given. I will talk to you today about the failure of leadership in global politics and in our globalizing economy. And I won't provide some feel-good, ready-made solutions. But I will in the end urge you to rethink, actually take risks, and get involved in what I see as a global evolution of democracy.
今天(的演讲)将不像我过去做的 的任何一个演讲 今天我想给你们讲的是 国际政治中失效的领导能力 和我们正走向国际化的经济 我不带给你们一些看似美好的现成解决方案 但最终我要敦促你们 反思并勇于承担风险,参与到 在我看来是全球范围的 民主变革中来
Failure of leadership. What is the failure of leadership today? And why is our democracy not working? Well, I believe that the failure of leadership is the fact that we have taken you out of the process. So let me, from my personal experiences, give you an insight, so that you can step back and maybe understand why it is so difficult to cope with the challenges of today and why politics is going down a blind alley.
(让我们来谈一下)失效的领导力 在当今社会,什么是失效的领导力? 究竟为什么我们的民主政策不管用? 我认为失效的领导力指的是 我们没有把你们(公众)带入民主全球化的进程中 好吧,让我从我个人的经历来 讲一下我的想法,借此你可以退一步 去理解为什么应对 当今社会的挑战是如此困难 为什么政治正走向死胡同
Let's start from the beginning. Let's start from democracy. Well, if you go back to the Ancient Greeks, it was a revelation, a discovery, that we had the potential, together, to be masters of our own fate, to be able to examine, to learn, to imagine, and then to design a better life. And democracy was the political innovation which protected this freedom, because we were liberated from fear so that our minds in fact, whether they be despots or dogmas, could be the protagonists. Democracy was the political innovation that allowed us to limit the power, whether it was of tyrants or of high priests, their natural tendency to maximize power and wealth.
让我们从头来讲吧 让我们从民主开始讲吧 嗯,如果你回到古希腊 它代表一种启示,一项发现 民主表明我们有潜力能够一起努力 成为我们命运的主人 能够检验、学习、想象 然后一起设计一个更美好的生活 民主既是一个政治上的创新 同时也保护我们的自由生活 (因为民主)我们能够从恐惧中解放出来 这样我们的内心坚定 无论面临着专制主义或是教条主义的时候 (我们)都是自己的主人 民主曾是一个政治创新,让我们得以 限制强权,无论它是来自恶势力 或是大祭司 这些人的天性就是最大化他们的强权和财富
Well, I first began to understand this when I was 14 years old. I used to, to try to avoid homework, sneak down to the living room and listen to my parents and their friends debate heatedly. You see, then Greece was under control of a very powerful establishment which was strangling the country, and my father was heading a promising movement to reimagine Greece, to imagine a Greece where freedom reigned and where, maybe, the people, the citizens, could actually rule their own country.
嗯,我最早意识到这一点 是在我14岁的时候 我为了逃避做作业 遛到客厅去听我父母 和他们的朋友激烈辩论 你知道,希腊过去是 在极强大的极权统治之下的 这种极权扼制了国家(的发展) 我父亲当时在领导一个大有希望的(政治)运动 来重新设想希腊,来设想 一个由自由主宰的,而且一个 由人民、公民来统治的国家
I used to join him in many of the campaigns, and you can see me here next to him. I'm the younger one there, to the side. You may not recognize me because I used to part my hair differently there.
我过去曾参与许多我父亲的竞选活动 你可以(从照片上看到)我站在他旁边 我是他左边的那个少年 你可能认不出我来了,因为 我过去的发型与现在略有不同
(Laughter)
(观众笑声)
So in 1967, elections were coming, things were going well in the campaign, the house was electric. We really could sense that there was going to be a major progressive change in Greece.
在1967年竞选时 竞选活动非常顺利 众议院是一片热闹的景象 我们真的感觉到了 这将使希腊迈出一大步
Then one night, military trucks drive up to our house. Soldiers storm the door. They find me up on the top terrace. A sergeant comes up to me with a machine gun, puts it to my head, and says, "Tell me where your father is or I will kill you." My father, hiding nearby, reveals himself, and was summarily taken to prison.
然而一个晚上,一辆军用卡车开到我家 士兵涌进门 他们在露台发现我 一个警官手提机枪走上前 顶着我的脑袋,说 “告诉我你爸在哪里,不然我杀了你” 我藏在一旁的父亲走了出来 即刻被他们押到了监狱
Well, we survived, but democracy did not. Seven brutal years of dictatorship which we spent in exile.
我们活了下来,可惜民主没有 残暴的独裁统治的7年里 我们在流亡中度过
Now, today, our democracies are again facing a moment of truth. Let me tell you a story. Sunday evening, Brussels, April 2010. I'm sitting with my counterparts in the European Union. I had just been elected prime minister, but I had the unhappy privilege of revealing a truth that our deficit was not 6 percent, as had been officially reported only a few days earlier before the elections by the previous government, but actually 15.6 percent. But the deficit was only the symptom of much deeper problems that Greece was facing, and I had been elected on a mandate, a mission, actually, to tackle these problems, whether it was lack of transparency and accountability in governance, or whether it was a clientelistic state offering favors to the powerful -- tax avoidance abetted and aided by a global tax evasion system, politics and media captured by special interests. But despite our electoral mandate, the markets mistrusted us. Our borrowing costs were skyrocketing, and we were facing possible default.
今天,我们的民主政治再次到了 面临真理的时刻 让我来给你们讲述一个故事 一个星期日的晚上, 布鲁塞尔,2010年4月 我和一些欧盟同行坐在一起 我刚刚被选为总理 身为总理我不幸地公布这样一个事实 我们的财务亏损并不是6% 那个几天前 在竞选以前,由前任政府所公布的数据 事实上,我们的财务亏损是15.6% 但财务亏损仅是 希腊面临的更深层问题的一个体现 我当选之际,承担的一个使命就是 解决这些深层问题 不论是政府行政缺乏透明度 和责任感 还是一个地方保护主义的州政府 让利给强权势力-给他们免税 被全球逃税体系和 特殊利益集团控制下的政界、媒体所怂恿教唆 尽管我们由选举授权 市场仍旧无法信任我们 我们的借贷利率仍旧疯涨 我们那时正面临负债的可能
So I went to Brussels on a mission to make the case for a united European response, one that would calm the markets and give us the time to make the necessary reforms. But time we didn't get. Picture yourselves around the table in Brussels. Negotiations are difficult, the tensions are high, progress is slow, and then, 10 minutes to 2, a prime minister shouts out, "We have to finish in 10 minutes."
于是我带着一个使命来到布鲁塞尔 向欧盟叙述现状,以期得到回应 从而稳定市场,并给我们时间 来进行必要的改革 但我们未得到(足够的)时间 想象一下你坐在布鲁赛尔的谈判桌上 谈判很艰难,局势很紧张 整个过程进行得十分缓慢,1点50分的时候 某国一总理喊起来 “我们必须10分钟内结束会议。”
I said, "Why? These are important decisions. Let's deliberate a little bit longer."
我问,“为什么?这些是重要的决定。 我们再花点时间商议一下。“
Another prime minister comes in and says, "No, we have to have an agreement now, because in 10 minutes, the markets are opening up in Japan, and there will be havoc in the global economy."
另一国总理插话说, ”不行,我们不得不达成一致, 因为10分钟以后, 日本市场将开盘, 全球经济将一片浩劫。”
We quickly came to a decision in those 10 minutes. This time it was not the military, but the markets, that put a gun to our collective heads. What followed were the most difficult decisions in my life, painful to me, painful to my countrymen, imposing cuts, austerity, often on those not to blame for the crisis. With these sacrifices, Greece did avoid bankruptcy and the eurozone avoided a collapse.
我们迅速在10分钟内达成协议 这一次,不是军队 而是市场,用机枪顶住了我们所有人的脑袋 接下来我做了一生最困难的决定 这不仅令我痛苦,也令我的国民痛苦 强行削减政策,财政紧缩 受重挫的往往是那些无辜的人们 由于这样的牺牲,希腊确实没有破产 欧元体系也没有崩溃
Greece, yes, triggered the Euro crisis, and some people blame me for pulling the trigger. But I think today that most would agree that Greece was only a symptom of much deeper structural problems in the eurozone, vulnerabilities in the wider global economic system, vulnerabilities of our democracies. Our democracies are trapped by systems too big to fail, or, more accurately, too big to control. Our democracies are weakened in the global economy with players that can evade laws, evade taxes, evade environmental or labor standards. Our democracies are undermined by the growing inequality and the growing concentration of power and wealth, lobbies, corruption, the speed of the markets or simply the fact that we sometimes fear an impending disaster, have constrained our democracies, and they have constrained our capacity to imagine and actually use the potential, your potential, in finding solutions.
希腊,是的,引起了欧元危机 而且有些人埋怨是我扣动了扳机 但我认为今天大多数人都同意 希腊(的问题)仅是一个表象 是一些在欧元区更深层、更本质问题的一个表象 是更大范围的全球经济系统漏洞的一个表象 我们民主政治漏洞的一个表象。 我们的民主政治深陷于“强大得永不坍塌”的系统 或者,更准确地说,“强大得无法驾驭”的系统 我们的民主政治在全球经济环境中被削弱 (民主)被那些逃避法律、逃避税收的人(所削弱) (民主)被那些破坏环境和劳动力标准的人(所削弱) 我们的民主政治 被日益加剧的不平等和 权富集中所削弱 政治游说、贪污腐败、市场化的进程 或仅仅是我们面临灾难的那种恐惧 制约了我们的民主 制约了我们 设想和发挥潜能的能力 你们的潜能 寻求解决方案的潜能
Greece, you see, was only a preview of what is in store for us all. I, overly optimistically, had hoped that this crisis was an opportunity for Greece, for Europe, for the world, to make radical democratic transformations in our institutions. Instead, I had a very humbling experience. In Brussels, when we tried desperately again and again to find common solutions, I realized that not one, not one of us, had ever dealt with a similar crisis. But worse, we were trapped by our collective ignorance. We were led by our fears. And our fears led to a blind faith in the orthodoxy of austerity. Instead of reaching out to the common or the collective wisdom in our societies, investing in it to find more creative solutions, we reverted to political posturing. And then we were surprised when every ad hoc new measure didn't bring an end to the crisis, and of course that made it very easy to look for a whipping boy for our collective European failure, and of course that was Greece. Those profligate, idle, ouzo-swilling, Zorba-dancing Greeks, they are the problem. Punish them! Well, a convenient but unfounded stereotype that sometimes hurt even more than austerity itself.
你所看到的希腊只是一场预演 这是我们所有人都将面临的景象 我曾天真地希望 这个危机提供了一个机会,让希腊,让欧洲 进行全世界范围内大幅度的民主改革 改革我们的组织机构 可是正相反,我却有了一次非常屈辱的经历 在布鲁塞尔,当我们一次又一次绝望地努力着 去寻求共同的解决方案(的时候) 我认识到,我们中没有一个人 曾处理过类似的危机 更糟糕的是,我们陷入共同的无知中 被恐惧牵着鼻子走 恐惧带着我们走向盲目的信念 对紧缩政策的信奉 没有向大众 抑或是社会集体智慧(求助) (没有)花时间寻找有创见性的解决方案 我们再次摆出了政治姿态 接着我们惊讶地发现 临时推出的方案未能结束危机 当然了,这很容易(让我们)想找到 寻找一个替罪羊 来为整个欧洲的失败买单 毫无疑问,这替罪羊就是希腊 那些挥霍无度的、闲散的、一边畅饮茴香酒,一边狂跳左巴舞的希腊人 他们就是问题所在。惩罚他们! 这随便的毫无依据的陈旧思维 往往比财政紧缩带来的危害更大
But let me warn you, this is not just about Greece. This could be the pattern that leaders follow again and again when we deal with these complex, cross-border problems, whether it's climate change, whether it's migration, whether it's the financial system. That is, abandoning our collective power to imagine our potential, falling victims to our fears, our stereotypes, our dogmas, taking our citizens out of the process rather than building the process around our citizens. And doing so will only test the faith of our citizens, of our peoples, even more in the democratic process.
我要提醒你,这不仅是希腊的问题 这可能是一个思维模式的问题 使领导者们一次又一次遵循 处理复杂跨国问题固有的思维模式的问题 不论是气候问题,是移民问题 还是金融调解问题 我们抛弃集体力量 不充分发挥我们的潜力 而选择成为恐惧,机械,教条的牺牲品 把公民排除在决策层之外 而不是以公民意见为核心来决策 这样做的结果是 考验了我们的公民、人民,甚至 (考验了)整个民主进程的信念
It's no wonder that many political leaders, and I don't exclude myself, have lost the trust of our people. When riot police have to protect parliaments, a scene which is increasingly common around the world, then there's something deeply wrong with our democracies. That's why I called for a referendum to have the Greek people own and decide on the terms of the rescue package. My European counterparts, some of them, at least, said, "You can't do this. There will be havoc in the markets again." I said, "We need to, before we restore confidence in the markets, we need to restore confidence and trust amongst our people."
难怪很多政治领导 包括我自己 失去了人民的信任 警察需要从骚乱中保护国会 这一场面在世界各地越来越常见 (那是因为)我们的民主政治出现了深层的问题 这就是为什么我主张公投,借此让希腊人民自己 决定援救计划的各个条款 我的欧洲同行们,至少其中一部分说, “你不能这么做。 这样又会导致一场市场浩劫。” 我回答说,“我们需要这么做,在恢复对市场的信心以前, 我们需要恢复人民的信心与信任。”
Since leaving office, I have had time to reflect. We have weathered the storm, in Greece and in Europe, but we remain challenged. If politics is the power to imagine and use our potential, well then 60-percent youth unemployment in Greece, and in other countries, certainly is a lack of imagination if not a lack of compassion. So far, we've thrown economics at the problem, actually mostly austerity, and certainly we could have designed alternatives, a different strategy, a green stimulus for green jobs, or mutualized debt, Eurobonds which would support countries in need from market pressures, these would have been much more viable alternatives. Yet I have come to believe that the problem is not so much one of economics as it is one of democracy.
离政以后,我有时间来进行反思 我们经受了在希腊和欧洲的风暴 但我们仍面临挑战 如果政治决策层拥有设想和发挥潜力的能力 那么在希腊以及其他国家60%的青年失业率 证明了我们缺乏合理的设想 缺乏应有的同情心 到现在为止,我们将这个问题归因于经济状况 事实上绝大部分是由于财政紧缩 当然我们本可以想其他的办法 不同的策略,(比如)鼓励绿色产业刺激就业 或互惠借贷,用欧元债券 帮助那些困于市场压力的国家 这些应该是更可行的办法 但我相信问题的根本不仅仅 是一个经济问题,而是一个民主问题
So let's try something else. Let's see how we can bring people back to the process. Let's throw democracy at the problem. Again, the Ancient Greeks, with all their shortcomings, believed in the wisdom of the crowd at their best moments. In people we trust. Democracy could not work without the citizens deliberating, debating, taking on public responsibilities for public affairs. Average citizens often were chosen for citizen juries to decide on critical matters of the day. Science, theater, research, philosophy, games of the mind and the body, they were daily exercises. Actually they were an education for participation, for the potential, for growing the potential of our citizens.
让我们试试其他的办法 让我们把人民带入这个过程中来 让我们用民主来解决问题 古希腊,即便有种种不足 最辉煌的时期,他们相信群众的智慧 相信值得信赖的人民 民主需要人民通过 商议、辩论、承担公共事务中的责任 对公共事务进行决策。 大多数公民常被选为公民陪审团 来裁决当日重要案件 科技,戏剧,研究,哲学 是心灵与身体的游戏 是一种日常演习 事实上通过参与,公民得以进行自我教育 因此提高我们公民的潜能
And those who shunned politics, well, they were idiots. You see, in Ancient Greece, in ancient Athens, that term originated there. "Idiot" comes from the root "idio," oneself. A person who is self-centered, secluded, excluded, someone who doesn't participate or even examine public affairs. And participation took place in the agora, the agora having two meanings, both a marketplace and a place where there was political deliberation. You see, markets and politics then were one, unified, accessible, transparent, because they gave power to the people. They serve the demos, democracy. Above government, above markets was the direct rule of the people.
那些避开政治的人是蠢货 蠢货一词源于古希腊和雅典 来自词根“idio",意思是”自己“ 一个自我为中心的、与世隔离,被排斥了的人 一个不参与或不思考公共事务的人 应该参与在集市中来。集市有两个意思 既指市场, 又指政治商酌的地方 你看,市场和政治是实际上是统一的 是可接近的,透明的,因为他们同样给人民以力量 让他们为民主服务 (让民主)高于政府,高于市场 由人民直接统治
Today we have globalized the markets but we have not globalized our democratic institutions. So our politicians are limited to local politics, while our citizens, even though they see a great potential, are prey to forces beyond their control.
今天我们已经有了全球化市场 但是我们还没有全球化的民主组织 所以我们的政治家仍旧局限于本地政治 即便人民可以看到更美好的希望 仍旧被强权所吞噬
So how then do we reunite the two halves of the agora? How do we democratize globalization? And I'm not talking about the necessary reforms of the United Nations or the G20. I'm talking about, how do we secure the space, the demos, the platform of values, so that we can tap into all of your potential?
那么我们怎样重新整合市场经济和政治体系呢? 我们怎样将全球化民主化呢? 我不是在讨论如何 对联合国或G20进行必要的改革 我是在说,我们怎样保留 民主和价值体系的平台 在此之基础上我们可以挖掘全部的潜能
Well, this is exactly where I think Europe fits in. Europe, despite its recent failures, is the world's most successful cross-border peace experiment. So let's see if it can't be an experiment in global democracy, a new kind of democracy. Let's see if we can't design a European agora, not simply for products and services, but for our citizens, where they can work together, deliberate, learn from each other, exchange between art and cultures, where they can come up with creative solutions. Let's imagine that European citizens actually have the power to vote directly for a European president, or citizen juries chosen by lottery which can deliberate on critical and controversial issues, a European-wide referendum where our citizens, as the lawmakers, vote on future treaties. And here's an idea: Why not have the first truly European citizens by giving our immigrants, not Greek or German or Swedish citizenship, but a European citizenship? And make sure we actually empower the unemployed by giving them a voucher scholarship where they can choose to study anywhere in Europe. Where our common identity is democracy, where our education is through participation, and where participation builds trust and solidarity rather than exclusion and xenophobia. Europe of and by the people, a Europe, an experiment in deepening and widening democracy beyond borders.
这恰恰是欧洲的情况 欧洲,尽管近来失利, 仍旧是世界最成功的跨国和平共处的实验平台 所以让我们来看一看它是否也可以成为 全球民主的实验地,一种新的民主 让我们看看是否我们可以设计一个欧洲集市 不仅是提供产品和服务的集市 也是人民进行交流的集市 互相讨论,相互学习 进行艺术与文化的交流 在这里他们可以提出有创意的解决方案 让我们想象一下”欧洲公民“ 可以投票 直选出一个”欧洲主席“ 或者抽签选出陪审团 商酌重要的有争议的问题 在欧洲范围内公投,我们的公民 作为法律的制定者,为未来的法律条约投票 我有个想法 能不能有第一批真正的“欧洲公民” 给各地移民一个“欧洲公民”的身份 不是希腊公民、德国公民、瑞典公民, 而是”欧洲公民“? 保证他们的权利 让失业人士拥有”奖学金券“ 让他们随意选择在欧洲的任何地方进行深造 这样我们共同的身份是民主 这样我们的教育是通过参与 这种参与能够建立信任、团结 而不是排斥与仇外 欧洲属于人民,由人民统治 在欧洲,推行更深更广的 跨国界的民主政治实验
Now, some might accuse me of being naive, putting my faith in the power and the wisdom of the people. Well, after decades in politics, I am also a pragmatist. Believe me, I have been, I am, part of today's political system, and I know things must change. We must revive politics as the power to imagine, reimagine, and redesign for a better world.
或许有人认为我天真地 过度信赖于人民的力量与智慧 有了几十年参政经验的我,也已经变成了一个实用主义者 相信我,我曾经是 现在仍是当今政治体系中一部分 我知道这一切必须改变 我们必须将政治的复兴作为一种力量来设想 来重新设想、设计出一个更美好的世界
But I also know that this disruptive force of change won't be driven by the politics of today. The revival of democratic politics will come from you, and I mean all of you. Everyone who participates in this global exchange of ideas, whether it's here in this room or just outside this room or online or locally, where everybody lives, everyone who stands up to injustice and inequality, everybody who stands up to those who preach racism rather than empathy, dogma rather than critical thinking, technocracy rather than democracy, everyone who stands up to the unchecked power, whether it's authoritarian leaders, plutocrats hiding their assets in tax havens, or powerful lobbies protecting the powerful few.
但我也知道这种改变的颠覆性力量 不是来自于目前的政治决策层 民主政治的复兴 将来自你们,我指你们所有人 全球每一个参与交流的人 不管是今天到场的人 还是场外的人 网络上的人,还是住在某地的人, 每个反对不公正不平等的人 每个反对 那些宣扬种族歧视、无同情心的人 那些教条主义、无辩证思考的人 那些官僚的、无民主思想的人 每一个反对不受制约的强权的人 不论是专制的领导人 还是逃税来隐藏资产的财阀 还是保护一小撮强权者的政治说客
It is in their interest that all of us are idiots. Let's not be.
这些人希望我们所有人都是蠢货 我们偏不!
Thank you.
谢谢
(Applause)
(观众掌声)
Bruno Giussani: You seem to describe a political leadership that is kind of unprepared and a prisoner of the whims of the financial markets, and that scene in Brussels that you describe, to me, as a citizen, is terrifying. Help us understand how you felt after the decision. It was not a good decision, clearly, but how do you feel after that, not as the prime minister, but as George?
(主持人)你似乎描述了一个政治家 有点措手不及地 深陷于金融市场风暴的囹圄中 你描述的布鲁塞尔的场面对于我来说 一个普通公民来说确实够可怕的 请描述一下您做出决定以后的心情 显然那不是好决定 但你心情是怎样的?不是作为总理 而是作为乔治(你自己)?
George Papandreou: Well, obviously there were constraints which didn't allow me or others to make the types of decisions we would have wanted, and obviously I had hoped that we would have the time to make the reforms which would have dealt with the deficit rather than trying to cut the deficit which was the symptom of the problem. And that hurt. That hurt because that, first of all, hurt the younger generation, and not only, many of them are demonstrating outside, but I think this is one of our problems. When we face these crises, we have kept the potential, the huge potential of our society out of this process, and we are closing in on ourselves in politics, and I think we need to change that, to really find new participatory ways using the great capabilities that now exist even in technology but not only in technology, the minds that we have, and I think we can find solutions which are much better, but we have to be open.
(乔治·帕潘德里欧)显然当时确实有这样的困难 令我以及其他人无法做出 我们想要做的决定 我当然希望我们有时间 通过改革来处理财务亏损 而不是试图消减财务亏损 那只是问题的表象 这么做是不利的。不利是因为,首先 对年轻一代不利 而且他们很多人在外示威 但我认为这是问题之一 当我们面临危机时,我们忽略了我们的潜力 忽略了此过程中来自社会的巨大潜力 我们封闭在政治之中 我认为我们就是需要改变这个,寻求 一种以新的方式来参与决策的能力 (这种能力)现在甚至存在于科技中,不仅是科技 也存在于我们的信念中。我认为我们可以找到 更好的解决方式,但是我们一定需要有开放的心态
BG: You seem to suggest that the way forward is more Europe, and that is not to be an easy discourse right now in most European countries. It's rather the other way -- more closed borders and less cooperation and maybe even stepping out of some of the different parts of the European construction. How do you reconcile that?
(主持人)你似乎建议下一步 主要是欧洲开始施行(民主政治),这可不太容易做到 特别是现在的一些欧洲国家 它们正好相反,他们开始封闭国界 减少合作,甚至将退出 某些欧盟内的组织 您是怎样看待这个问题的呢?
GP: Well, I think one of the worst things that happened during this crisis is that we started a blame game. And the fundamental idea of Europe is that we can cooperate beyond borders, go beyond our conflicts and work together. And the paradox is that, because we have this blame game, we have less the potential to convince our citizens that we should work together, while now is the time when we really need to bring our powers together.
(乔治·帕潘德里欧) 我认为在危机发生后的恶果之一 就是我们开始了相互责备 欧盟最基本的观念是 我们可以跨越国界合作 抛开分歧,共同努力 然而矛盾的是,因为我们开始了相互责备 我们失去了赢得人心的机会 现在正是我们需要 齐心协力的时刻
Now, more Europe for me is not simply giving more power to Brussels. It is actually giving more power to the citizens of Europe, that is, really making Europe a project of the people. So that, I think, would be a way to answer some of the fears that we have in our society.
现在,欧洲不需要把 权利交给布鲁塞尔 而是要交给欧洲人民 让欧洲成为一个“人民工程” 所以我认为,可以通过这个来回应 一些社会上的恐慌
BG: George, thank you for coming to TED.
(主持人)感谢您光临Ted讲台
GP: Thank you very much.BG: Thank you.(Applause)
(乔治·帕潘德里欧)十分感谢。(主持人)谢谢。(观众掌声)