This is a hard conversation. I want to start with that. Well, let's step into it. It was 1977. Jimmy Carter was president. "Queen" was playing on the radio. I was having lunch in my high school cafeteria in Houston, Texas, when we heard a young man shouting at another young man next to him saying, “You stole my girlfriend, and I’m going to make you pay.” He pulled out a pistol, and as about 100 of us looked on, he shot and killed him.
我首先必须要说,这个主题并不轻松。 好,让我们开始吧。 那是 1977 年。 总统是吉米·卡特。 广播里正在播放皇后乐队。 我正在得克萨斯州休斯敦的 高中食堂吃午饭, 当时我们听到一个年轻人 对旁边的另一个年轻人大喊: “你抢了我的女朋友, 我给你点教训。” 他拿出一把手枪, 在我们大约 100 人的注视下, 他开枪打死了对方。
Two years later, I was a freshman, big state university, Friday night in the dorm room. Music, beer, five young men take a young woman back to one of their rooms and force her to have sex. There was no investigation at the time. No one called it rape. No one said sexual violence.
两年后, 我是州立大学的大一学生, 星期五晚上在宿舍里, 听音乐、喝啤酒, 五名年轻男子将 一名年轻女子带到一个房间 并强迫她做爱。 当时没有进行任何调查。 没有人称之为强奸。 没有人说过性暴力。
These two events are what drove me to do this work. I work with survivors of violence around the world. It was somehow easier to work with survivors in other parts than it was to think about this in my own country, the US. And in that work, a throughline became clear. And that throughline is manhood.
这两个事件促使我从事这项工作。 我与世界各地的暴力幸存者一起工作。 在某种程度上,与其他地区的幸存者合作 要比在我自己的国家美国 考虑这个问题要容易得多。 在工作中, 一条主线变得清晰起来。 那就是男子气概。
It is an inconvenient and difficult-to-look-at truth, but the majority of violence in the world is carried out by men.
这是一个令人不安 且难以直视的真相, 但世界上大多数暴力是由男性实施的。
Since that shooting in my high school, at least 800,000 people have died from gun suicide in the US alone. The vast majority of those, men. About 600,000 people have died of homicide in the US alone. The vast majority of those who did the killing were men. One in three women in the world experiences violence from a male partner. Violence is overwhelmingly male.
自从我高中发生枪击事件以来, 仅在美国就有 至少 80 万人死于枪击自杀。 其中绝大多数,是男性。 仅在美国, 就有大约 60 万人死于凶杀。 其中绝大多数杀人者,是男性。 世界上三分之一的女性 遭受过来自男性伴侣的暴力。 暴力行为在极大程度上就是男性的。
Often, the point will come up, this must be biology. Yes, biology accounts for a small portion of it, but the vast majority is how we raise boys. Research that we do --
通常,会有一个观点出现, 这一定是生理原因。 是的,一小部分原因的确是生理的, 但主要问题在于我们如何抚养男孩。 我们所做的研究——
(Applause)
(掌声)
Research that we've carried out finds that about -- and we ask this in multiple countries -- about two thirds of men tell us that during childhood they experienced physical violence from another male. You do not get to adult manhood in most of the world without experiencing, witnessing and learning male violence.
我们进行的研究表明—— 我们在多个国家进行了调研—— 有三分之二的男性告诉我们 在童年期间,他们遭受过 来自另一个男性的肢体暴力。 在世界大多数地方,男孩在长大 成为男人的过程中, 必定会经历、目睹和学习男性暴力。
Now, when I bring these points up, several things often happen. One is someone will say, well, you're attacking men. Someone will also say, well, you're apologizing for men as you look at these origins of violence. We've got to talk about this. We have to understand what are these pathways to men's use of violence if we're to break these cycles of violence.
当我提出这些观点时, 经常会发生几件事。 一是有人会说, 好吧,你在攻击男人。 有人也会说, 你研究这些暴力起源时, 你是在为男人道歉。 我们要说一下这个事情。 我们必须要了解男性学会 使用暴力的方式, 如果我们想要打破这些暴力循环的话。
This conversation must be about the version of manhood we literally beat in to boys. My organization, Equimundo, does research around the world on these topics. We listen to men, we carry out research together with the UN, country governments, local partners. We've been measuring over the last 10 to 12 years where men are on these versions of manhood. This won't surprise you, as we look at some of the numbers. About 40 to 50 percent of men in the world believe in a version of manhood that goes like this: I’ve got to outperform the other at all cost. I can’t show that I’m vulnerable or ask for help. That sex is about conquest, not about intimacy and connection. That you’ve got to show that you’re tough all the time. And that violence is a reasonable way to get what you want. These are not just empty phrases. These are things that men talk about. They create realities.
这次谈话必须是关于 我们向男孩子们灌输的 是什么样的男子主义。 我所在的组织 Equimundo 在世界各地就这些主题进行了研究。 我们倾听男性的心声, 我们与联合国、国家政府、 当地合作伙伴一起进行研究。 在过去的 10 到 12 年中, 我们一直在衡量男性 对男子气概的看法。 意料之中的是, 我们看到了这样一些数字。 世界上大约有 40% 到 50% 的男性 认为男子主义是这样的: 我必须不惜一切代价超越对方。 我不能显露自己很脆弱, 也不能寻求帮助。 性行为是关于征服, 与亲密关系和人际关系无关。 你必须证明自己一直很坚强。 而暴力是获得你想要的东西的合理途径。 这些不只是空泛的话语。 这些是男人谈论的事情。 他们创造了现实。
The other thing we find is that the more you believe in these norms, these ideas about manhood, you are multiple times more likely to do this: to have considered suicide, to use violence against others, to harm yourself and to harm others in multiple ways. These norms affect us, they cause harm.
我们发现的另一件事是, 你越相信这些规范, 这些关于男子气概的观念, 你有下列行为的可能性就越会成倍增加: 考虑自杀、 对他人使用暴力、 以及以多种方式伤害自己和他人。 这些规范影响着我们,并造成伤害。
Now I realize I'm doing in that last affirmation something that I said I wasn't going to do in this talk, which is women know this. And when a man explains to women something they already know, we have a word for that. I'm not going to do that.
我知道,我刚刚这句话 有违我说过不会在这次演讲里做的事, 因为女性都知道这一点。 当一个男人向女人解释 她们已经知道的事情时, 我们有个词可以形容。 我不会那样做的。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
I'm not going to do that, OK? Pull that back. What I do want is to get men talking about this. So call this “mansplaining to men.”
我不会那样做的,好吗? 收回去。 我真正想要的是让男人谈论这个问题。 因此,称之为 “向男人爹味说教”。
(Applause)
(掌声)
Thank you for that, because I don't get a lot of men inviting me to the bar when I have these conversations, so thank you. Thank you for that love. What I do often bring up with men, and you could see why they find me kind of inconvenient to have around, is I'll say, men, we die, on average, six years earlier than women in the US. Around the rest of the world, pretty similar numbers. Why is that? Part of that's biology, we know this. The female body is a better model.
谢谢, 因为当我向男性进行这番教育时, 邀请我去酒吧的人不多,所以谢谢。 谢谢你们的支持。 我经常和男性说的是, 而且你可以理解为什么 他们觉得我有点麻烦, 就是我总说,男性,在美国, 我们平均比女性早六年死亡。 在世界其他地方,这个数字非常相近。 这是为什么? 一部分是因为我们已知的生理原因。 女性的身体就是设计得更好。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
(Cheers and applause)
(欢呼和掌声)
Let us acknowledge that. The vast majority of this, though, is how we live as men. What we drink, what we smoke, how we drive, the harm we put ourselves in the way of, the drugs that we take, how we literally live as men. Of course it interacts with racism, with where you live, with poverty, but we're literally dying of manhood. Women pick up the pieces when men die early. They are the ones who do the care, who carry on households, who carry on in countries when men die. This affects us all. My daughter, when she was 12, 13, middle school, she said, "Dad, girls are talking a lot about empowered womanhood and how we can be in the world. But the boys seem kind of lost. Could you come and give a talk at school about this?"
我们得承认这一点。 但是,主要是因为 我们作为男人的生活方式。 我们喝什么,抽什么,我们如何开车, 我们给自己带来的伤害, 我们服用的药物, 我们如何男人地生活。 当然,这与种族主义、 生活地点、贫困也都相互作用, 但我们是因为男子气概而死亡。 当男人早死时,女人会收拾残局。 她们是负责护理,照顾家庭, 当男人去世后继续劳作的人。 这影响到我们所有人。 我的女儿在 12、13 岁读初中时说: “爸爸,女孩们经常谈论女性赋权, 以及我们如何才能融入这个世界。 但是男孩们似乎有点迷茫了。 你能来学校讲一讲这个吗?”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
So, for better or worse, I started with this example. The boys' eyes were going up, "Wait, I never thought about the fact that I could die on average earlier than women because of all these reasons." Next day I get a letter, a note from one of the boys who gave it to my daughter to give to me, and I opened it up and it said, “Dear Dr. Barker, thank you for that information. I never thought about how we as men are affected by these things. Only now, I'm worried about dying."
所以,无论怎样, 我都从这个例子开始。 男孩们睁大了眼睛, “等等,我从来没有想过, 由于所有这些原因, 我会比女性更早死亡。” 第二天我收到一封信, 一个男孩的便条, 他让我的女儿转交给我, 我打开信上写着: “亲爱的巴克博士, 谢谢你提供的信息。 我从来没有想过我们作为男人 会受到这些东西的影响。 只不过现在,我担心会死。”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
(Exhales sharply)
(尖锐地呼气)
(Laughter)
(笑声)
I am a developmental psychologist, and I should know a little bit more than having a 12-year-old think about his own mortality.
我是一名发育心理学家, 我好像不应该 让一个 12 岁的孩子担心他会死。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Trying to get some help for that myself.
我自己也想为此寻求帮助。
The point was, he got it. And that is what we need men to think about. This pathway is how to step into how we as men are part of this conversation and how we benefit from it.
关键是,他明白了。 这就是我们需要男人考虑的问题。 这就是我们 我们作为男性如何参与对话 以及我们如何从中受益的方法。
OK, risk of mansplaining here. You know where men are having these conversations if we don't talk to them. Young men right now are having these conversations online. There is an explosion of conversations about manhood online. Some of them are good. How much water to drink, the exercise you should carry out, how can I get close to somebody I'm interested in. That’s guys trying to be their best selves. But there’s a huge amount of it that’s fed by an industry of misogynist and angry influencers who are getting the attention of young men. Our research finds that 40 to 50 percent of young men in the US say they trust one or more of those negative voices online. Why are they going there? They are lost, they are struggling, they're confused. Other data that we have, almost 50 percent of men in the US say they think about suicide frequently. About two thirds of young men tell us that "no one really knows me." What a call and a cry about loneliness in their lives. If we don't reach out, they will continue to find solace online with the voices that we well know about.
好吧,这里开始有点说教了。 你知道如果不是和我们, 男人会去和什么人聊这些事情。 现在的年轻人都在网上讨论。 网络上关于男子气概的讨论激增。 其中一些很不错。 要喝多少水, 你应该做什么运动, 我怎样才能接近我感兴趣的人。 这些人都在努力成为最好的自己。 但是,其中有很大一部分讨论 是由一个厌女和愤怒的网红行业培养的, 是这些人正受到青年男子的关注。 我们的研究发现,在美国, 有 40% 至 50% 的青年男子 表示他们信任网上的一个 或多个负面声音。 他们是怎么发展成这样的? 他们迷路了, 他们在挣扎,他们很困惑。 我们掌握的其他数据显示, 美国将近 50% 的男性 表示他们经常考虑自杀。 大约三分之二的青年男子和我们说 “没有人真正了解我”。 这是对他们生活中的孤独感的发声。 如果我们不伸出援手, 他们将继续在网上寻找慰藉, 而我们知道他们会听到什么样的话。
For young men of color, these issues are even more acute. Job uncertainties, education, systemic racism. One young man that we worked with in Washington, DC, when he was part of a training activity to carry out work in schools, as we're going through the training of trainers, he said, "Gary, these ideas of manhood that you talk about, for a white guy like you, it's like the flu. For me as a Black guy, this is pneumonia." I think that's an excellent point to think about, the compassion that we have to step into as we have this conversation.
对于有色人种的青年男子来说, 这些问题更加严重。 工作不确定性、教育、系统性种族主义。 我们在华盛顿特区与一位年轻人共事过, 当时他正在参加学校工作的培训活动, 当时我们正在接受培训师培训,他说: “加里,你所说的这些男子气概, 对于像你这样的白人来说,就像流感。 对于作为黑人的我来说,这是肺炎。” 我认为这是一个很好的观点, 我们在进行这次对话时 应当同时保有同理心。
And this is where I want to take the last point here. We have to talk about care. Care of boys, care about boys, care for men, and talk to boys and men about how they care. Let me talk a little bit more about that.
这就是我想在这里讲的最后一点。 我们必须谈谈关爱。 对男孩的关爱,关心, 对男性的关怀照料, 并与男孩和男人谈论他们如何关心。 让我再多展开讲一下。
One of the casualties that we face as men growing up in that version of manhood that I presented to you, is that we make this thick shell around ourselves. We close off our emotions, we close ourselves off to the human connection we need. Think about what young men frequently say. I would guess, I don't know that we've asked it in a survey, but one of the most frequent things that young men say, "I don't care." "I don't care." "I don't care." It is our perfect shell, right? We close ourselves behind it, and it also says, you can't shame me, you can't question me, you can't hurt me, you can't embarrass me because I don't care. I said it thousands of times as a teenage boy. I'm sure my mother would have a bigger number. And I know I've said it thousands of times as an adult man as well. This is the shield that we put on to close ourselves off.
我们所面临的一种情况, 就是我给你们讲的男子气概中成长的男人 会在自己周围制造厚厚的外壳。 我们封闭情绪, 与需要的人际关系保持隔绝。 想想年轻男孩们经常说的话。 我会说——我不知道我们 在调查中问过这个问题—— 但是年轻人最常说的一句话是, “我不在乎。” “我不在乎。” “我不在乎。” 这是我们的完美外壳,对吧? 我们在外壳下封闭自己 类似的话还有,你不能羞辱我, 你不能质疑我,你不能伤害我, 无法让我感到尴尬,因为我不在乎。 我十几岁的时候说过几千次。 我敢肯定我妈妈会觉得我说了几万次。 而且我知道作为一个成年男人 我也说过数千次了。 这是我们用来封锁自己的盾牌。
The conversation that we need to step into with boys is not about their mortality, but it is about how we care. Where I start that conversation is to think about our superpower as humans. We are the most wired-to-care species on the planet. Our neurological systems, our hormonal systems, are wired to care, to nurture, to love, to form attachments with others. But it's not automatic. If you don't use it, if you close it off, if you hide, you don't get good at it. But if you try and if you practice and if you learn it, you do get good at it. Even the man who seems most cut off from the world can learn it.
我们需要与男孩进行讨论的 不是他们的死亡, 而是关于我们如何关心、在乎。 我的对话的开头, 是思考我们作为人类的超级力量。 我们是这个星球上最由关爱构建的物种。 我们的神经系统, 我们的荷尔蒙系统, 与关心、培育、爱、 与他人建立依恋息息相关。 但这不是自动的。 如果你不使用这种能力, 如果你把它关掉,如果你躲起来, 你就无法擅长这种能力。 但是,如果你尝试,如果你练习, 如果你学习,你就会变得擅长。 即使是看似最与世隔绝的人, 也可以学会。
I take you back to my high school in 1977. The boy who killed the other. I didn't tell you this part, but I knew him. Took me years to say I didn't know him well because I didn't want to know him well. He got detention, he bullied, he got detention again, he didn't do well in school, he got sent away. No one, apparently, reached out to him.
我在 1977 年带你回到我的高中。 那个杀了对方的男孩, 我没告诉你这部分, 但我认识这个男孩。 多年之后我才有勇气承认, 我不太了解他, 是因为我不想很了解他。 他被留校了,他欺负人了, 他又被留校了, 他在学校表现不佳, 他被送走了。 显然,没有人向他伸出援手。
Think about what we often do when boys or men cause harm. If you're young, we give you a time out. Get a little bit older, we give you a detention. You step into the workplace, you do harm, we fire you. You do something else, we incarcerate you. These acts are often necessary to reduce harm, but they cut men off from the connection and humanity that we need, even when men have caused harm. I am not, in saying this, I'm not affirming or believing that we should give any man a free walk for harm that is caused. We must hold men accountable for harm caused. No question about that. We must call out with deep compassion when men do cause harm. We've also got to call in to being connected, caring humans.
想想当男孩或男人造成伤害时, 我们经常做什么。 如果你还小, 我们会计时隔离你。 再大一点, 我们让你留校。 你踏入工作场所, 你造成伤害,我们解雇你。 你做别的事,我们监禁你。 这些行为通常是减少伤害所必需的, 但它们把男人们与他们所需的人际关系 和人性进行切断, 即使男性造成了伤害。 我这样说, 并不是在肯定或认为 我们应该让任何人逍遥法外, 不承担伤害的后果。 我们必须追究男性对 造成的伤害的责任。 对此毫无疑问。 当人造成伤害时,我们应当怀着 深切的同情心大声疾呼。 我们还必须呼吁人与人 保持联系、充满关爱。
This is not instead of, and I think this is very important to end on, this is not instead of the unfinished journey for full equality, respect and rights that every woman and girl on the planet deserves.
这并不是一种替代手段, 我认为这很重要, 这不是要取代地球上每个女性 和女孩应得的实现完全平等、 尊重和权利的未完成旅程。
(Applause)
(掌声)
This is an "and" conversation. We must continue that journey and we must talk about manhood. And I also believe that it is this conversation about pulling men into care that we get them to be allies for gender equality.
这是一场“同时”的对话。 我们必须继续这段旅程, 我们必须谈论男子气概。 我还相信,正是这种 关于让男性接受关爱的对话, 使他们成为性别平等的盟友。
(Applause)
(掌声)
My final point would be this: look at the face of any three-year-old boy on the planet. He was not born into the world to be angry, aggressive, to follow dark threads down the internet. He comes into the world ready to be loved and to learn how to love. Take him, talk to him, teach him every day: I care.
我的最后一点是: 看看这个星球上任何一个三岁男孩的脸。 他出生在世上并不是为了愤怒、好斗、 关注互联网上的阴暗发言。 他来到这个世界是准备 被爱并学习如何爱。 引领他,和他探讨,每天教他:我在乎。
Thank you.
谢谢。
(Applause)
(掌声)