This is a hard conversation. I want to start with that. Well, let's step into it. It was 1977. Jimmy Carter was president. "Queen" was playing on the radio. I was having lunch in my high school cafeteria in Houston, Texas, when we heard a young man shouting at another young man next to him saying, “You stole my girlfriend, and I’m going to make you pay.” He pulled out a pistol, and as about 100 of us looked on, he shot and killed him.
呢場對話好鬼難, 我想從呢度開始。 就噉開始啦。 喺 1977 年, 占美·卡特擔任總統嗰時, 收音機正播放 「Queen」嘅歌曲, 我喺德州侯斯頓 高中嘅 canteen 食緊午飯, 當我哋聽到一個男仔 同側根另一個男仔大聲講: 「你搶咗我嘅女朋友, 你要付出代價。」 大約有 100 人喺旁邊睇住, 佢拔出手槍, 開槍打死咗個情敵。
Two years later, I was a freshman, big state university, Friday night in the dorm room. Music, beer, five young men take a young woman back to one of their rooms and force her to have sex. There was no investigation at the time. No one called it rape. No one said sexual violence.
兩年後, 我係州立大學新生, 週五晚喺宿舍, 音樂、啤酒、 五個男仔將一個女仔 帶返佢哋其中一間房 強迫女仔發生性行為。 當時並冇進行調查。 冇人認為係強姦。 冇人講性暴力呢樣嘢。
These two events are what drove me to do this work. I work with survivors of violence around the world. It was somehow easier to work with survivors in other parts than it was to think about this in my own country, the US. And in that work, a throughline became clear. And that throughline is manhood.
呢兩件事觸發我 從事呢項工作。 我為世界各地 暴力倖存者工作。 為啲唔係美國嘅倖存者工作, 比起喺本土 要考慮嘅問題容易得多。 喺嗰項工作中, 條主線容易變得清晰; 呢條主線就係男子氣概。
It is an inconvenient and difficult-to-look-at truth, but the majority of violence in the world is carried out by men.
唔係咁容易 睇到真實嘅面貌, 但喺世界上大多數嘅暴力行為 都係由男性主導。
Since that shooting in my high school, at least 800,000 people have died from gun suicide in the US alone. The vast majority of those, men. About 600,000 people have died of homicide in the US alone. The vast majority of those who did the killing were men. One in three women in the world experiences violence from a male partner. Violence is overwhelmingly male.
自從我高中 嗰次槍擊案以來, 光喺美國就有至少 80 萬人死喺用槍械自殺。 其中絕大多數係男性。 淨喺美國大概有 60 萬人死於被殺。 殺人嘅絕大多數係男性。 世界上三分一嘅女性 曾遭受男性伴侶暴力對待。 暴力絕大部分係男性所為。
Often, the point will come up, this must be biology. Yes, biology accounts for a small portion of it, but the vast majority is how we raise boys. Research that we do --
啲人通常會提出 一個觀點: 生物學嘅原因。 係嘅,生物學 只佔其中小部分, 但絕大部分 係我哋教養男仔嘅方式。 我哋所做嘅研究——
(Applause)
(掌聲)
Research that we've carried out finds that about -- and we ask this in multiple countries -- about two thirds of men tell us that during childhood they experienced physical violence from another male. You do not get to adult manhood in most of the world without experiencing, witnessing and learning male violence.
進行研究嘅發現係, 喺多個國家 提出一個問題, 大概三分二男性 話我哋知, 喺童年曾遭受 男性嘅暴力對待。 喺世界上大多數地方, 如果冇經歷 及目睹過、同學習男性暴力, 男仔就無可能長大。
Now, when I bring these points up, several things often happen. One is someone will say, well, you're attacking men. Someone will also say, well, you're apologizing for men as you look at these origins of violence. We've got to talk about this. We have to understand what are these pathways to men's use of violence if we're to break these cycles of violence.
當我依家提出呢啲觀點, 經常會發生一啲嘢。 有人會話, 你喺度攻擊男性; 亦都有人會講, 當你睇到暴力嘅根源, 正在為男性道歉。 我哋就講吓呢啲。 如果你要打破 呢啲暴力嘅循環, 必須要了解男性 使用暴力嘅途徑係為咩。
This conversation must be about the version of manhood we literally beat in to boys. My organization, Equimundo, does research around the world on these topics. We listen to men, we carry out research together with the UN, country governments, local partners. We've been measuring over the last 10 to 12 years where men are on these versions of manhood. This won't surprise you, as we look at some of the numbers. About 40 to 50 percent of men in the world believe in a version of manhood that goes like this: I’ve got to outperform the other at all cost. I can’t show that I’m vulnerable or ask for help. That sex is about conquest, not about intimacy and connection. That you’ve got to show that you’re tough all the time. And that violence is a reasonable way to get what you want. These are not just empty phrases. These are things that men talk about. They create realities.
呢場對話實際上係向男仔 灌輸我哋男人氣概嘅版本。 我嘅組織 Equimundo 喺世界各地對呢啲主題進行研究。 我哋聽男人嘅意見, 同聯合國、各國政府、 及當地合作夥伴一齊進行研究。 喺過去 10 至 12 年間, 我哋一直衡量男子氣概 喺呢啲講法上嘅表現。 當你睇到啲數字 唔會感到震驚, 世界上大約有 40% 到 50% 嘅男性 相信男子氣概係: 必須不惜一切代價 超越其他人。 唔能夠表現出脆弱 或者要尋求幫助。 性係征服,而唔係 親密同連結嘅關係。 你必須由始至終 表現出係堅強嘅。 你想要嘅嘢 用暴力獲得係合理嘅。 呢啲唔只係廢話, 都係男人講緊嘅嘢。 佢哋創造緊現實。
The other thing we find is that the more you believe in these norms, these ideas about manhood, you are multiple times more likely to do this: to have considered suicide, to use violence against others, to harm yourself and to harm others in multiple ways. These norms affect us, they cause harm.
我哋發現一件事, 你越相信呢啲規範, 有關男子氣概想法, 會出現以下行為嘅可能性 會高出幾倍: 曾會考慮自殺, 對其他人使用暴力, 同以多種方式 傷害自己及其他人。 呢啲規範影響我哋, 同造成傷害。
Now I realize I'm doing in that last affirmation something that I said I wasn't going to do in this talk, which is women know this. And when a man explains to women something they already know, we have a word for that. I'm not going to do that.
我意識到 喺最后一句話度, 講咗啲呢次演講 唔打萛講嘅嘢, 係女人先會知道。 當男人對女人解釋 已經知道嘅嘢, 我哋有個詞語。 我唔會噉樣做。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
I'm not going to do that, OK? Pull that back. What I do want is to get men talking about this. So call this “mansplaining to men.”
我唔會噉做,好啦? 挽回感情。 我真正想要嘅係 等男人討論呢啲嘢。 所以稱為「男人 對男人嘅說教」。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
Thank you for that, because I don't get a lot of men inviting me to the bar when I have these conversations, so thank you. Thank you for that love. What I do often bring up with men, and you could see why they find me kind of inconvenient to have around, is I'll say, men, we die, on average, six years earlier than women in the US. Around the rest of the world, pretty similar numbers. Why is that? Part of that's biology, we know this. The female body is a better model.
多謝, 因為當進行呢啲傾談嘅時候, 並冇好多男士邀請我去酒吧, 多謝你哋嘅愛心。 由於我經常提起, 美國男性平均 比女性早死六年, 男士覺得我喺身邊 有啲麻煩。 喺世界各地, 都有近似嘅數字。 點解會噉? 部分係生物原因。 女性身體 係更好嘅模型。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
(Cheers and applause)
(歡呼聲同拍掌聲)
Let us acknowledge that. The vast majority of this, though, is how we live as men. What we drink, what we smoke, how we drive, the harm we put ourselves in the way of, the drugs that we take, how we literally live as men. Of course it interacts with racism, with where you live, with poverty, but we're literally dying of manhood. Women pick up the pieces when men die early. They are the ones who do the care, who carry on households, who carry on in countries when men die. This affects us all. My daughter, when she was 12, 13, middle school, she said, "Dad, girls are talking a lot about empowered womanhood and how we can be in the world. But the boys seem kind of lost. Could you come and give a talk at school about this?"
我哋要承認。 但係大多數係 我哋作為男人嘅生活方式, 飲啲咩、食啲咩藥、 吸啲咩煙、 點樣開車、 同畀自己造成嘅傷害, 作為男人實際上 係點樣生活嘅。 當然,同種族、 所居住嘅地方、貧窮有關, 但我哋正正係 死喺男子氣概度。 當男人早死, 女人就會收拾殘局。 佢哋負責照料, 同承擔家庭責任, 男人死咗後, 佢哋喺本國繼續生活。 呢種情況 影響到所有人。 當我個女,12 、3 歲 上中學嗰時, 佢講:「爸爸, 嗰啲女仔經常講賦權女性 同點喺社會度生活。 但啲男仔迷惘。 你可唔可以來學校 講吓呢啲嘢?」
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
So, for better or worse, I started with this example. The boys' eyes were going up, "Wait, I never thought about the fact that I could die on average earlier than women because of all these reasons." Next day I get a letter, a note from one of the boys who gave it to my daughter to give to me, and I opened it up and it said, “Dear Dr. Barker, thank you for that information. I never thought about how we as men are affected by these things. Only now, I'm worried about dying."
因此,無論點樣, 我都由呢個例子開始。 男仔啲眼都望上面, 「等等,我從未諗過, 由於所有呢啲原因, 我會比平均女性早死。」 第二日收到 一個男仔寫嘅便條, 佢畀咗我個女畀我, 打開便條,上面寫: 「Barker 博士, 多謝提供嘅資訊。 身為男人從未諗過 會受到呢啲嘢影響。 依家我只擔心會死。」
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
(Exhales sharply)
(急促噉呼氣)
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
I am a developmental psychologist, and I should know a little bit more than having a 12-year-old think about his own mortality.
我係發展心理學家, 會知道多啲嘢, 唔單止令到 12 歲細路 諗到死亡。
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
Trying to get some help for that myself.
呢度我都要尋求一啲幫助。
The point was, he got it. And that is what we need men to think about. This pathway is how to step into how we as men are part of this conversation and how we benefit from it.
關鍵係,佢明白咗。 呢啲就係要 男人思考嘅問題。 呢條路就係我哋身為男人 須要對話嘅地方 同時可以從中受益。
OK, risk of mansplaining here. You know where men are having these conversations if we don't talk to them. Young men right now are having these conversations online. There is an explosion of conversations about manhood online. Some of them are good. How much water to drink, the exercise you should carry out, how can I get close to somebody I'm interested in. That’s guys trying to be their best selves. But there’s a huge amount of it that’s fed by an industry of misogynist and angry influencers who are getting the attention of young men. Our research finds that 40 to 50 percent of young men in the US say they trust one or more of those negative voices online. Why are they going there? They are lost, they are struggling, they're confused. Other data that we have, almost 50 percent of men in the US say they think about suicide frequently. About two thirds of young men tell us that "no one really knows me." What a call and a cry about loneliness in their lives. If we don't reach out, they will continue to find solace online with the voices that we well know about.
男人說教係有風險。 如果我哋唔同男人傾, 佢哋會喺邊度進行對話。 依家啲年輕人 正喺網路度進行呢類對話。 網路度關於男子氣概嘅討論激增。 有啲係好嘅。 要飲幾多水, 要進行啲咩嘢鍛煉, 點先能夠接近我喜歡嘅人。 呢啲就係想成為 最好嘅男人嘅人。 但好大部分係 憎恨女人同憤怒嘅人 所產生嘅言論, 佢哋吸引緊年輕人嘅關注。 研究發現,有 40% 到 50% 美國年輕男性, 表示佢哋會相信網路上 一種或多種負面聲音。 佢哋為咩會噉樣? 佢哋迷失咗, 佢哋掙扎緊, 佢哋已經迷惘啦。 其他掌握嘅數據, 有近 50% 嘅美國男性 表示佢哋經常考慮自殺。 大約三分二嘅年輕人講 「冇人真正了解我」。 呢啲係對孤獨生活中嘅 呼喚同吶喊。 如果我哋唔伸出援手, 佢哋將繼續透過網路 搵佢哋熟識嘅聲音, 尋求安慰。
For young men of color, these issues are even more acute. Job uncertainties, education, systemic racism. One young man that we worked with in Washington, DC, when he was part of a training activity to carry out work in schools, as we're going through the training of trainers, he said, "Gary, these ideas of manhood that you talk about, for a white guy like you, it's like the flu. For me as a Black guy, this is pneumonia." I think that's an excellent point to think about, the compassion that we have to step into as we have this conversation.
對於年輕有色人種來講, 呢啲問題更加嚴重。 唔確定嘅工作、教育、 同系統性嘅種族歧視。 我哋華盛頓特區 一位年輕同事, 當佢喺學校 開展培訓活動時, 我哋正在進行 培訓員嘅培訓,佢講: 「Gary,你所講關於 男子氣概嘅想法, 對你哋白人來講, 就好似係流感, 對於我作為一個黑人來講, 就係肺炎。」 我認為呢個係 值得思考嘅問題, 當我哋進行呢次講話時, 必須表現出同情心,
And this is where I want to take the last point here. We have to talk about care. Care of boys, care about boys, care for men, and talk to boys and men about how they care. Let me talk a little bit more about that.
就係我想講嘅最後一點。 我哋必須講吓關懷, 照顧男仔, 關心啲男仔 同照顧男人, 並同男孩及男人 談論佢哋點樣關心自已。 等我再講多啲呢點。
One of the casualties that we face as men growing up in that version of manhood that I presented to you, is that we make this thick shell around ourselves. We close off our emotions, we close ourselves off to the human connection we need. Think about what young men frequently say. I would guess, I don't know that we've asked it in a survey, but one of the most frequent things that young men say, "I don't care." "I don't care." "I don't care." It is our perfect shell, right? We close ourselves behind it, and it also says, you can't shame me, you can't question me, you can't hurt me, you can't embarrass me because I don't care. I said it thousands of times as a teenage boy. I'm sure my mother would have a bigger number. And I know I've said it thousands of times as an adult man as well. This is the shield that we put on to close ourselves off.
喺我介紹嘅嗰種男子氣概度 長大嘅男人, 啲創傷係 喺佢自己嘅周圍 製造咗一個好厚嘅外殼。 佢哋封住自己嘅情緒, 將佢哋自己需要嘅 人際關係隔絕。 想想年輕人 經常會講嘅話。 係猜嘅,我唔知調查度 有冇呢條問題, 但年輕人最常講嘅 其中一句話就係: 「我唔在乎。」 「我唔在乎。」 「我唔在乎。」 啱嘛﹗呢個係完美外殼。 我哋把自己封閉喺後邊, 表示你唔能夠羞辱我, 你唔能夠質疑同傷害我, 你唔能夠畀我難堪, 因為我唔在乎。 當仲係十零歲𡃁仔, 我講過幾千次。 肯定我阿媽話 唔止啲個數。 身為成年男人, 我亦已經講咗幾千次。 呢啲就係我哋用來 封閉自己嘅盾牌。
The conversation that we need to step into with boys is not about their mortality, but it is about how we care. Where I start that conversation is to think about our superpower as humans. We are the most wired-to-care species on the planet. Our neurological systems, our hormonal systems, are wired to care, to nurture, to love, to form attachments with others. But it's not automatic. If you don't use it, if you close it off, if you hide, you don't get good at it. But if you try and if you practice and if you learn it, you do get good at it. Even the man who seems most cut off from the world can learn it.
我哋須要同男仔進行嘅對話 唔係關於佢哋嘅死亡率, 係佢哋點樣關心自己。 我嘅談話出發點係 去思考我哋作為人類嘅超能力。 喺地球度,我哋係 最需要去關愛嘅物種。 我哋嘅神經系統, 同荷爾蒙系統, 都同關懷、養育及愛、 與其他人密切相連。 但唔會係自動系統。 如果你唔肯用, 關閉同隱藏咗關愛, 你就唔會擅長。 但如果你嘗試、 練習同學習, 就會擅長關愛系統。 即使係睇嚟與世隔絕嘅人 亦都能夠學會呢啲嘢。
I take you back to my high school in 1977. The boy who killed the other. I didn't tell you this part, but I knew him. Took me years to say I didn't know him well because I didn't want to know him well. He got detention, he bullied, he got detention again, he didn't do well in school, he got sent away. No one, apparently, reached out to him.
等我帶你返去 1977 年我高中嘅時候。 殺死人嗰個男仔。 我無講你哋知, 我係識得佢。 我花咗好多年才講, 我唔係太了解佢, 因為我唔想深入去了解佢。 佢被拘留,佢欺負人, 又再次被拘留, 佢喺學校表現唔好, 被送走咗。 顯然冇人向佢伸出援手。
Think about what we often do when boys or men cause harm. If you're young, we give you a time out. Get a little bit older, we give you a detention. You step into the workplace, you do harm, we fire you. You do something else, we incarcerate you. These acts are often necessary to reduce harm, but they cut men off from the connection and humanity that we need, even when men have caused harm. I am not, in saying this, I'm not affirming or believing that we should give any man a free walk for harm that is caused. We must hold men accountable for harm caused. No question about that. We must call out with deep compassion when men do cause harm. We've also got to call in to being connected, caring humans.
諗諗當男仔或男人造成傷害時, 我哋經常做啲咩。 如果你仲年輕, 我哋畀你一啲時間。 再大一啲, 我哋就會拘留你。 當你踏入職場, 若造成危害, 就會被解僱。 你做咗其他嘢, 就會被監禁。 呢啲做法通常係 減少傷害所必須嘅, 但係佢哋被切斷咗 人與人及人類本身須要嘅連繫, 即使係男人造成咗危害。 我並唔係講 我唔確認或相信應該畀 任何男人,即使造成危害, 可以自由嘅權利。 我哋必須等男人 對佢哋造成嘅危害負責, 係毫無疑問嘅。 當男人造成危害, 我哋必須以深切同情發出呼喚。 我哋也必須號召 人類相互連結同充滿關懷。
This is not instead of, and I think this is very important to end on, this is not instead of the unfinished journey for full equality, respect and rights that every woman and girl on the planet deserves.
呢個唔係替代, 結束呢一點 好重要嘅係, 並唔係替代咗一個 未完成嘅旅程——實現地球上 每個女仔同婦女應得到嘅 完全平等、尊重同權利。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
This is an "and" conversation. We must continue that journey and we must talk about manhood. And I also believe that it is this conversation about pulling men into care that we get them to be allies for gender equality.
呢場係 「連結 」嘅對話。 我哋必須向前, 必須繼續討論男子氣概。 我亦相信正係呢種對話 將男性牽引到關懷嘅行列, 等佢哋成為性別平等嘅盟友。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
My final point would be this: look at the face of any three-year-old boy on the planet. He was not born into the world to be angry, aggressive, to follow dark threads down the internet. He comes into the world ready to be loved and to learn how to love. Take him, talk to him, teach him every day: I care.
我最後嘅一點係: 睇吓呢個星球上 任何一個三歲男仔嘅樣。 佢唔係與生俱來 就為咗要憤怒、富攻擊性、 及追隨網路上黑暗嘅線索。 佢來到呢個世界 就準備被愛同學習點樣去愛。 照顧佢,跟佢講, 每日教佢「我關心你」。
Thank you.
多謝。
(Applause)
(掌聲)