So in 2011, I altered my name so that I could participate in Far Right youth camp in Hungary. I was doing a PhD looking at youth political socialization -- why young people were developing political ideologies in a post-communist setting, and I saw that a lot of young people I was talking to were joining the Far Right, and this was astounding to me. So I wanted to enroll in this youth camp to get a better understanding of why people were joining.
在2011年,我为了参加 在匈牙利的极右青年营而改了名字。 我当时正在做一个 青年政治社交的博士研究—— 为什么年轻人正在 后共产主义的环境下 发展出政治思想体系。 然后我看到许多 同我谈话的年轻人 在加入极右营, 而这使我感到很震惊。 所以我想要参与这个青年营 来更好地理解 人们为什么加入它。
So a colleague enrolled me, and my last name sounds a little bit too Jewish. So Erin got turned into Iréna, and Saltman got turned into Sós, which means "salty" in Hungarian. And in Hungarian, your last name goes first, so my James Bond name turned into "Salty Irena," which is not something I would have naturally chosen for myself.
一个同事帮我注册了, 而我的姓听起来有点太像犹太人。 也就是艾琳被改成了艾伦娜, 而萨特曼被改成了梭斯, 也就是匈牙利语中的“咸”的意思。 而在匈牙利语中,你的姓在前面 所以我的代号变成了 “咸咸的艾伦娜”, 这是我不会自然而然 选给自己的名字。
But going to this camp, I was further shocked to realize that it was actually really fun. They talked very little about politics. It was mostly learning how to ride horses, shooting a bow and arrow, live music at night, free food and alcohol, also some air-gun target practice using mainstream politicians' faces as targets. And this seemed like a very, actually, friendly, inclusive group until you started talking or mentioning anything to do with the Roma population, Jewish people or immigrants, and then the discourse would become very hate-based very quickly.
但是参加这个营的时候, 我更震惊地意识到 它其实真的挺有趣的。 他们很少谈论政治, 大部分时间是学习骑马, 射箭, 晚上演奏音乐, 有免费的食物和酒精饮料, 以及一些气枪打靶练习, 用主流政治家的脸当靶子。 而这看上去像一个非常 友好的、包容的团体, 直到你开始谈到或提起 任何有关罗马尼亚人、 犹太人、或是移民的话题, 然后谈话就会很快变得充满仇恨。
So it led me into my work now, where we pose the question, "Why do people join violent extremist movements, and how do we effectively counter these processes?" In the aftermath of horrible atrocities and attacks in places like Belgium, France, but all over the world, sometimes it's easier for us to think, "Well, these must be sociopaths, these must be naturally violent individuals. They must have something wrong with their upbringing." And what's really tragic is that oftentimes there's no one profile. Many people come from educated backgrounds, different socioeconomic backgrounds, men and women, different ages, some with families, some single. So why? What is this allure? And this is what I want to talk you through, as well as how do we challenge this in a modern era?
于是这就引导我开始了现在的工作, 也就是提出这个问题, “人们为什么加入暴力的极端运动, 而我们怎么去有效地反击这个过程?“ 比利时、法国等地区 还在骇人听闻的 暴行和袭击的余悸中, 但是在世界各地 有时候我们更容易认为 “这些肯定是反社会人物, 这些肯定是天生暴力的人。 他们从小接受的教育肯定有问题。“ 真正的让人惋惜的是, 很多时候它没有一个绝对的答案。 很多人都受过教育, 有着不同的社会经济背景, 不同年龄的男人和女人, 有些有家庭,有些单身。 为什么要这么做? 他们受了什么诱惑? 而这就是我想要和你们讨论的, 以及我们怎样在现代挑战这件事。
We do know, through research, that there are quite a number of different things that affect somebody's process of radicalization, and we categorize these into push and pull factors. And these are pretty much similar for Far Right, neo-Nazi groups all the way to Islamist extremist and terrorist groups. And push factors are basically what makes you vulnerable to a process of radicalization, to joining a violent extremist group. And these can be a lot of different things, but roughly, a sense of alienation, a sense of isolation, questioning your own identity, but also feeling that your in-group is under attack, and your in group might be based on a nationality or an ethnicity or a religion, and feeling that larger powers around you are doing nothing to help.
我们通过研究知道, 有很多不同的东西 影响着一个人变得激进的过程, 而我们把这些分类为 推动和拉回因素。 这些因素在极右、新纳粹团体,甚至是 穆斯林极端和 恐怖团体中都差不多。 而推动因素让你更容易 受激进过程的影响, 更容易去加入 一个暴力的极端团体 而这些可以是很多不同的事情, 但粗略来说就是,疏远感,孤立感, 质疑你自己的身份 但同时感到你所属的群体 正在受到攻击, 而你的群体可能基于 一个国籍或是一个种族 或是一个宗教, 以及感到你周围更大的权力 没有提供任何帮助。
Now, push factors alone do not make you a violent extremist, because if that were the fact, those same factors would go towards a group like the Roma population, and they're not a violently mobilized group. So we have to look at the pull factors. What are these violent extremist organizations offering that other groups are not offering? And actually, this is usually very positive things, very seemingly empowering things, such as brotherhood and sisterhood and a sense of belonging, as well as giving somebody a spiritual purpose, a divine purpose to build a utopian society if their goals can be met, but also a sense of empowerment and adventure.
仅仅是推动因素不会把你 变成一个暴力的极端主义者, 因为如果那是事实, 那些相同的因素也应该适用于 像是罗马尼亚人的群体, 而他们并不是一个暴力群体。 那么我们需要看一下拉回因素。 这些暴力的极端组织提供了什么 别的团体没有提供的呢? 通常是非常积极的东西, 看上去非常能赋予权力的东西, 像是兄弟情谊和姐妹情谊 一种归属感, 以及给人一个精神目标, 一个神圣的目标来 建造一个乌托邦社会, 如果他们的目标可以被实现的话, 但还有一种自主感和冒险感。
When we look at foreign terrorist fighters, we see young men with the wind in their hair out in the desert and women going to join them to have nuptials out in the sunset. It's very romantic, and you become a hero. For both men and women, that's the propaganda being given. So what extremist groups are very good at is taking a very complicated, confusing, nuanced world and simplifying that world into black and white, good and evil. And you become what is good, challenging what is evil.
当我们想到国外恐怖主义的斗争者时, 我们看到了沙漠中 匆匆赶路的年轻人, 而女人走过去加入他们, 然后在夕阳中举行婚礼。 这很浪漫,而你会变成一个英雄, 对男人和女人来说 这就是他们被许诺的东西。 极端团体非常善于 把一个非常复杂、 令人困惑且琐碎的世界 简化为一个只有黑和白, 好和坏的世界。 而你成为了好的, 挑战着坏的事物。
So I want to talk a little bit about ISIS, Daesh, because they have been a game changer in how we look at these processes, and through a lot of the material and their tactics. They're very much a modern movement. One of the aspects is the internet and the usage of social media, as we've all seen in headlines tweeting and videos of beheadings. But the internet alone does not radicalize you. The internet is a tool. You don't go online shopping for shoes and accidentally become a jihadist. However, what the Internet does do is it is a catalyst.
那么我想稍微谈一谈伊斯兰国, 因为他们通过许多宣传材料和策略 改变了我们是怎样看待这些过程的。 他们几乎相当于一个现代运动。 其中一个方面就是 网络和社交媒体的使用, 因为我们都在推特头条 和砍头视频里见过。 但是单纯使用网络不会使你变得激进。 网络是一个工具, 你不会上网买鞋子, 然后突然变成了一个伊斯兰圣徒。 然而,网络的作用是催化剂。
It provides tools and scale and rapidity that doesn't exist elsewhere. And with ISIS, all of a sudden, this idea of a cloaked, dark figure of a jihadist changed for us. All of a sudden, we were in their kitchens. We saw what they were eating for dinner. They were tweeting. We had foreign terrorist fighters tweeting in their own languages. We had women going out there talking about their wedding day, about the births of their children. We had gaming culture, all of a sudden, and references to Grand Theft Auto being made.
它提供其它地方不存在的 工具,规模和速度。 而对于伊斯兰国,突然之间 这个披着斗篷、黑暗的圣徒形象 突然为我们改变了。 突然之间,我们在他们的厨房里, 看到了他们晚饭吃什么。 他们在发微博。 我们看到外国的恐怖分子 用他们自己的语言发微博。 我们看到女人们公开谈论她们的婚礼, 她们孩子的出生。 我们有突然间有了游戏文化, 然还提到了侠盗飞车。
So all of a sudden, they were homey. They became human. And the problem is that trying to counter it, lots of governments and social media companies just tried to censor. How do we get rid of terrorist content? And it became a cat-and-mouse game where we would see accounts taken down and they'd just come back up, and an arrogance around somebody having a 25th account and material that was disseminated everywhere.
突然之间,他们变得普通了。 他们变成了人类。 而问题是,为了应对这种情况, 许多政府和社交媒体公司 都试图进行审查。 我们怎样去掉恐怖主义内容? 然后它变成了一个猫捉老鼠的游戏, 我们会看到账号被封杀, 然后它们只卷土重来, 有着第25个账号的人的傲慢 以及被散播到各处的资料。
But we also saw a dangerous trend -- violent extremists know the rules and regulations of social media, too. So we would see a banal conversation with a recruiter start on a mainstream platform, and at the point at which that conversation was going to become illegal, they would jump to a smaller, less regulated, more encrypted platform. So all of a sudden, we couldn't track where that conversation went. So this is a problem with censorship, which is why we need to develop alternatives to censorship.
但是我们也看到了 一个危险的趋势—— 暴力的极端主义者 也知道社交媒体的规则和管理方法。 所以我们会看到一个平淡的招募对话 在一个主流平台上开始, 而当那个对话 就要变得违法时, 他们会跳到一个 更小的,更疏于管理的 加密的平台。 所以突然之间,我们跟踪不到 那个对话去了哪里。 那么这是审查制度的一个问题, 也就是为什么我们需要 开发审查制度的替代品。
ISIS is also a game-changer because it's state-building. It's not just recruiting combatants; it's trying to build a state. And what that means is all of a sudden, your recruitment model is much more broad. You're not just trying to get fighters -- now you need architects, engineers, accountants, hackers and women. We've actually seen a huge increase of women going in the last 24, but especially 12 months. Some countries, one in four of the people going over to join are now women. And so, this really changes who we're trying to counter this process with.
伊斯兰国也是一个游戏改变者, 因为它建造了一个国家。 它不只是招募战斗者, 它还试着建造一个国家。 而这意味着突然之间, 你的招募模式变得更加宽泛了。 你不仅仅试着找斗士—— 现在你需要建筑师、工程师、 会计、黑客、和女人。 我们其实已经看到了 在过去的24,尤其是12个月里, 加入他们的女性数量急剧增加。 有些国家里,目前4个加入的人中 就有1个是女性。 这从本质上改变了 和我们一起试着反抗这个过程的人。
Now, not all doom and gloom. So the rest I'd like to talk about some of the positive things and the new innovation in trying to prevent and counter violent extremism.
但是,还有希望。 那么接下来我想 谈一些积极的事情, 以及试着预防并反击 暴力的极端主义的新方法。
Preventing is very different than countering, and actually, you can think of it in medical terms. So preventative medicine is, how do we make it so you are naturally resilient to this process of radicalization, whereas that is going to be different if somebody is already showing a symptom or a sign of belonging to a violent extremist ideology. And so in preventative measures, we're talking more about really broad groups of people and exposure to ideas to make them resilient. Whereas it's very different if somebody is starting to question and agree with certain things online, and it's also very different if somebody already has a swastika tattoo and is very much embedded within a group. How do you reach them?
预防和反击很不一样, 而事实上,你可以用 医学概念来思考它。 那么预防性药物就是 我们怎么利用它来让你对这个激进过程 存在天然的抵抗力。 然而如果某些人已然表现出了 属于一个暴力的极端主义意识形态, 情况就不同了。 所以在预防性方法中, 我们讨论的更多是很宽泛的群体, 让他们了解各种不同的意识形态, 让他们对形成抵抗力。 然而如果某些人 已经开始提问并同意网上的 某些观点,情况就不同了。 如果某些人已经有了一个万字纹身, 而且在一个群体中根深蒂固, 情况也变得不一样了。 你怎么触动他们呢?
So I'd like to go through three examples of each one of those levels and talk you through what some of the new ways of engaging with people are becoming.
那么我想要解读一下 关于这每一个阶段的三个例子, 并且和你们谈论 一些新的鼓励人们参与的方法。
One is "Extreme Dialogue," and it's an educational program that we helped develop. This one is from Canada, and it's meant to create dialogues within a classroom setting, using storytelling, because violent extremism can be very hard to try to explain, especially to younger individuals. So we have a network of former extremists and survivors of extremism that tell their stories through video and create question-giving to classrooms, to start a conversation about the topic.
其一就是“极端对话”, 这是一个我们参与发展的教育项目。 这个项目来自加拿大, 目的是在一个教室环境中通过讲故事 创造对话。 因为暴力的极端主义 可以是非常难以解释的, 尤其是对于年轻人来说。 我们有一个前极端主义者 和极端主义下的幸存者的关系网, 他们通过视频和设计教室提问 来讲述自己的故事, 来开始一个有关这个话题的谈话。
These two examples show Christianne, who lost her son, who radicalized and died fighting for ISIS, and Daniel is a former neo-Nazi who was an extremely violent neo-Nazi, and they pose questions about their lives and where they're at and regret, and force a classroom to have a dialogue around it.
这两个例子影响了克里斯蒂安, 她失去了她的儿子, 他变得激进,并为伊斯兰国战斗至死。 还有丹尼尔,一个前新纳粹份子, 他曾是一个极度暴力的新纳粹。 而他们对于自己的生活和处境 提出了问题并感到了后悔, 而且强制一个教室来对此展开对话。
Now, looking at that middle range of individuals, actually, we need a lot of civil society voices. How do you interact with people that are looking for information online, that are starting to toy with an ideology, that are doing those searching identity questions? How do we provide alternatives for that? And that's when we combine large groups of civil society voices with creatives, techies, app developers, artists, comedians, and we can create really specified content and actually, online, disseminate it to very strategic audiences. So one example would be creating a satirical video which makes fun of Islamophobia, and targeting it to 15- to 20-year-olds online that have an interest in white power music and live specifically in Manchester.
看到了个人的一段人生, 事实上,我们感到需要 很多公民的社会声音。 怎么去和正在网上搜索信息, 玩弄意识形态, 搜索着身份认同问题的人沟通呢? 我们怎么为那些人提供替代内容呢? 而这时我们就把 大群的公民社会声音 同创新者、技术人员, 应用程序开发者、艺术家、戏剧家相结合, 而且我们可以创造非常详细的内容, 而且可以在网上 散布给有战略眼光的观众。 一个例子是录制一个讽刺视频, 其内容是嘲笑伊斯兰恐惧症, 然后把目标群体瞄准15-20岁, 对白人至上音乐有兴趣 生活在曼切斯特的在线用户。
We can use these marketing tools to be very specific, so that we know when somebody's viewing, watching and engaging with that content, it's not just the average person, it's not me or you -- it's a very specific audience that we are looking to engage with.
我们可以通过这些营销工具 做到非常有针对性, 这样一来我们知道什么时候 有人在浏览、播放 并参与内容互动。 我指的不是普通大众, 这不是我或者你—— 而是一个很特殊的, 我们想要针对的一个群体。
Even more downstream, we developed a pilot program called "One to One," where we took former extremists and we had them reach out directly to a group of labeled neofascists as well as Islamist extremists, and put direct messages through Facebook Messenger into their inbox, saying, "Hey, I see where you're going. I've been there. If you want to talk, I'm here." Now, we kind of expected death threats from this sort of interaction. It's a little alarming to have a former neo-Nazi say, "Hey, how are you?" But actually, we found that around 60 percent of the people reached out to responded, and of that, around another 60 percent had sustained engagement, meaning that they were having conversations with the hardest people to reach about what they were going through, planting seeds of doubt and giving them alternatives for talking about these subjects, and that's really important.
在项目的下游,我们还开发了 一个叫做“一对一”的试验方案。 我们让前极端主义者 直接和一组标记过的新纳粹 还有伊斯兰教极端主义者 进行交流, 并且直接把信息通过Facebook的 聊天工具发到他们的收件箱里,说, “嘿,我看到你在做什么了。 我曾经也是那样, 如果你想谈一谈的话,随时找我。” 我们预计到这种沟通会带来死亡威胁。 一个前新纳粹份子跟你打招呼 是有些令人惊慌的。 但事实上,我们发现大约60% 被接触的人回复了, 而其中又有大约60% 有持续性的参与, 意味着他们在和最难以接触的人 谈论他们正在经历的事情, 种下怀疑的种子, 并提供给他们替代话题, 那真的很重要。
So what we're trying to do is actually bring unlikely sectors to the table. We have amazing activists all over the world, but oftentimes, their messages are not strategic or they don't actually reach the audiences they want to reach. So we work with networks of former extremists. We work with networks of young people in different parts of the world. And we work with them to bring the tech sector to the table with artists and creatives and marketing expertise so that we can actually have a more robust and challenging of extremism that works together.
我们在尝试 开诚布公的谈论意想不到的部分。 我们有世界各地优秀的活动家, 但很多时候, 他们的消息不是策略性的, 或者他们并不能真正接触 他们想接触的人群。 所以我们与前极端分子的关系网合作, 我们与世界各地的年轻人关系网合作。 我们与艺术家、创意人士和营销专家 一起谈论技术部分的问题, 这样我们就能共同应对 更强大、更具挑战性的 极端主义。
So I would say that if you are in the audience and you happen to be a graphic designer, a poet, a marketing expert, somebody that works in PR, a comedian -- you might not think that this is your sector, but actually, the skills that you have right now might be exactly what is needed to help challenge extremism effectively.
我认为如果你在观众席中, 而且你恰巧是一名平面设计师, 或者诗人,市场专家, 公关人员, 喜剧演员—— 你可能不觉得这是你的领域, 但事实上,你现在所有的技巧 可能恰恰是我们需要用来 有效的对抗极端主义的。
Thank you.
谢谢。
(Applause)
(掌声)