So in 2011, I altered my name so that I could participate in Far Right youth camp in Hungary. I was doing a PhD looking at youth political socialization -- why young people were developing political ideologies in a post-communist setting, and I saw that a lot of young people I was talking to were joining the Far Right, and this was astounding to me. So I wanted to enroll in this youth camp to get a better understanding of why people were joining.
2011. godine promijenila sam ime da bih se pridružila desničarskom kampu mladih u Mađarskoj. Radila sam na doktoratu o političkoj socijalizaciji mladih... zašto mladi razvijaju političke ideologije u postkomunističkom okruženju, i shvatila sam da se mnogi mladi s kojima sam razgovarala pridružuju radikalnoj desnici, što me zaprepastilo. Stoga sam se htjela uključiti u kamp kako bih razumjela zašto.
So a colleague enrolled me, and my last name sounds a little bit too Jewish. So Erin got turned into Iréna, and Saltman got turned into Sós, which means "salty" in Hungarian. And in Hungarian, your last name goes first, so my James Bond name turned into "Salty Irena," which is not something I would have naturally chosen for myself.
Prijavila me kolegica, a moje prezime zvuči previše židovski. Tako je Erin postala Iréna, a Saltman Sós, što znači "slano" na mađarskom. Na mađarskom se prezime stavlja na prvo mjesto, tako da je moje ime u stilu Jamesa Bonda postalo "Slana Irena", što ne bih sama izabrala za sebe.
But going to this camp, I was further shocked to realize that it was actually really fun. They talked very little about politics. It was mostly learning how to ride horses, shooting a bow and arrow, live music at night, free food and alcohol, also some air-gun target practice using mainstream politicians' faces as targets. And this seemed like a very, actually, friendly, inclusive group until you started talking or mentioning anything to do with the Roma population, Jewish people or immigrants, and then the discourse would become very hate-based very quickly.
Kada sam došla u kamp, dodatno me šokiralo to što je zapravo bilo jako zabavno. Vrlo se malo razgovaralo o politici. Uglavnom se učilo jahanje, streličarstvo, bilo je žive glazbe navečer, besplatne hrane i alkohola, pa učenje rukovanja zračnim pištoljem s licima poznatih političara kao metama. I ljudi su bili jako ljubazni i tolerantni sve dok ne spomeneš Rome, Židove ili imigrante, tu bi razgovor vrlo brzo skrenuo u smjeru mržnje.
So it led me into my work now, where we pose the question, "Why do people join violent extremist movements, and how do we effectively counter these processes?" In the aftermath of horrible atrocities and attacks in places like Belgium, France, but all over the world, sometimes it's easier for us to think, "Well, these must be sociopaths, these must be naturally violent individuals. They must have something wrong with their upbringing." And what's really tragic is that oftentimes there's no one profile. Many people come from educated backgrounds, different socioeconomic backgrounds, men and women, different ages, some with families, some single. So why? What is this allure? And this is what I want to talk you through, as well as how do we challenge this in a modern era?
To me dovelo do današnjeg rada, u kojem postavljamo pitanje: "Zašto se ljudi pridružuju nasilnim ekstremističkim pokretima, i kako da učinkovito suzbijemo te procese?" Nakon svih strahota i napada u Belgiji, Francuskoj i ostatku svijeta, ponekad nam je lakše razmišljati: "To su zasigurno sociopati, to su prirodno nasilni pojedinci. Nešto nije bilo u redu s njihovim odgojem." A što je zaista tragično, često se ne radi o jednom profilu ljudi. Mnogi dolaze iz obrazovanih sredina, različitih društvenih i ekonomskih sredina, muškarci i žene, različitih dobi, jedni iz obitelji, drugi samci. Onda zašto? U čemu je čar? I to je ono o čemu želim govoriti, kao i o tome što možemo učiniti da se tome danas suprotstavimo.
We do know, through research, that there are quite a number of different things that affect somebody's process of radicalization, and we categorize these into push and pull factors. And these are pretty much similar for Far Right, neo-Nazi groups all the way to Islamist extremist and terrorist groups. And push factors are basically what makes you vulnerable to a process of radicalization, to joining a violent extremist group. And these can be a lot of different things, but roughly, a sense of alienation, a sense of isolation, questioning your own identity, but also feeling that your in-group is under attack, and your in group might be based on a nationality or an ethnicity or a religion, and feeling that larger powers around you are doing nothing to help.
Istraživanja nam pokazuju da postoji cijeli niz čimbenika koji utječu na radikalizaciju osobe, a koje kategoriziramo kao čimbenike poticanja i privlačenja. I oni su otprilike isti kod radikalno desnih, neonacista pa sve do islamskih ekstremističkih i terorističkih skupina. Čimbenici poticanja čine vas osjetljivima na postupak radikalizacije, pridruživanje ekstremističkim skupinama. A to mogu biti različite stvari, ali uglavnom se svode na osjećaj otuđivanja, izolacije, propitivanje vlastitog identiteta, ali i osjećaj da je tvoja grupa napadnuta, a ta grupa može biti vezana uz nacionalnost ili etnicitet ili vjeru, te osjećaj da više sile koje te okružuju ne čine ništa da bi pomogle.
Now, push factors alone do not make you a violent extremist, because if that were the fact, those same factors would go towards a group like the Roma population, and they're not a violently mobilized group. So we have to look at the pull factors. What are these violent extremist organizations offering that other groups are not offering? And actually, this is usually very positive things, very seemingly empowering things, such as brotherhood and sisterhood and a sense of belonging, as well as giving somebody a spiritual purpose, a divine purpose to build a utopian society if their goals can be met, but also a sense of empowerment and adventure.
Sami čimbenici poticanja ne čine osobu nasilnim ekstremistom jer da je tomu tako, jednaki čimbenici odnosili bi se na romsku populaciju, a oni nisu nasilno mobilizirana skupina. Stoga treba pogledati čimbenike privlačenja. Što te nasilne ekstremističke organizacije nude, a da ostale skupine ne nude? I zapravo se obično radi o pozitivnim stvarima, naizgled osnažujućim stvarima, kao što su bratstva i sestrinstva i osjećaj pripadnosti, kao i pružanje duhovnog smisla, božanskog nauma da se izgradi utopijsko društvo ako se njihovi ciljevi ispune, ali i osjećaj osnaživanja i pustolovine.
When we look at foreign terrorist fighters, we see young men with the wind in their hair out in the desert and women going to join them to have nuptials out in the sunset. It's very romantic, and you become a hero. For both men and women, that's the propaganda being given. So what extremist groups are very good at is taking a very complicated, confusing, nuanced world and simplifying that world into black and white, good and evil. And you become what is good, challenging what is evil.
Kada pogledamo strane teroriste, vidimo mladiće s vjetrom u kosi u pustinji kojima prilaze žene kako bi izrekli bračne zavjete uz zalazak sunca. To je jako romantično i postajete junak. I muškarcima i ženama nudi se ta propaganda. Ekstremističke skupine vrlo su vješte u pretvaranju složenog, zbunjujućeg, šarolikog svijeta u pojednostavljen crno-bijeli svijet, u dobro i zlo. I vi postajete ono dobro koje se odupire zlu.
So I want to talk a little bit about ISIS, Daesh, because they have been a game changer in how we look at these processes, and through a lot of the material and their tactics. They're very much a modern movement. One of the aspects is the internet and the usage of social media, as we've all seen in headlines tweeting and videos of beheadings. But the internet alone does not radicalize you. The internet is a tool. You don't go online shopping for shoes and accidentally become a jihadist. However, what the Internet does do is it is a catalyst.
Htjela bih ovdje spomenuti Islamsku državu ili ISIL jer oni mijenjaju naše stajalište prema tim procesima, raznovrsnim materijalima i taktikama. To je vrlo moderan pokret. To je donekle zbog interneta i upotrebe društvenih mreža, kao što smo vidjeli u naslovima i tvitovima s videozapisima dekapitacija. No sam internet nije ono što vas čini radikalnim. Internet je sredstvo. Ne ideš kupiti cipele putem interneta i slučajno tako postaneš džihadist. Međutim, internet jest katalizator.
It provides tools and scale and rapidity that doesn't exist elsewhere. And with ISIS, all of a sudden, this idea of a cloaked, dark figure of a jihadist changed for us. All of a sudden, we were in their kitchens. We saw what they were eating for dinner. They were tweeting. We had foreign terrorist fighters tweeting in their own languages. We had women going out there talking about their wedding day, about the births of their children. We had gaming culture, all of a sudden, and references to Grand Theft Auto being made.
Omogućuje alate, širinu i brzinu kakve ne postoje drugdje. Uz ISIL se odjedanput promijenilo ono kako zamišljamo ogrnutog, mračnog džihadista. Odjedanput smo se našli u njihovim kuhinjama. Vidjeli smo što večeraju. Tvitali su. Gledamo kako teroristi tvitaju na svom jeziku. Gledamo kako žene pričaju o svom vjenčanju, rođenju svoje djece. Odjedanput se pojavila kultura igara i povezivanje s igrom Grand Theft Auto.
So all of a sudden, they were homey. They became human. And the problem is that trying to counter it, lots of governments and social media companies just tried to censor. How do we get rid of terrorist content? And it became a cat-and-mouse game where we would see accounts taken down and they'd just come back up, and an arrogance around somebody having a 25th account and material that was disseminated everywhere.
Odjedanput postali su nam bliski. Postali su ljudi. A problem je što su taj problem mnoge vlade i društvene mreže pokušale riješiti cenzurom. Kako se riješiti terorističkog sadržaja? Postala je to igra mačke i miša u kojima se računi brišu i ponovno pojavljuju uz bahatost koja prati nekog tko otvara 25. račun i materijale koji su posvuda prošireni.
But we also saw a dangerous trend -- violent extremists know the rules and regulations of social media, too. So we would see a banal conversation with a recruiter start on a mainstream platform, and at the point at which that conversation was going to become illegal, they would jump to a smaller, less regulated, more encrypted platform. So all of a sudden, we couldn't track where that conversation went. So this is a problem with censorship, which is why we need to develop alternatives to censorship.
Ali vidjeli smo i opasan trend... i nasilni ekstremisti znaju pravila i propise društvenih mreža. Pa smo tako vidjeli banalan razgovor s regrutom na popularnoj platformi, a u trenutku kada razgovor treba postati nezakonit, prebacili bi se na manju šifriraniju platformu. Odjedanput više ne možemo pratiti kamo razgovor vodi. To je problem s cenzurom, zbog čega moramo razviti alternative cenzuri.
ISIS is also a game-changer because it's state-building. It's not just recruiting combatants; it's trying to build a state. And what that means is all of a sudden, your recruitment model is much more broad. You're not just trying to get fighters -- now you need architects, engineers, accountants, hackers and women. We've actually seen a huge increase of women going in the last 24, but especially 12 months. Some countries, one in four of the people going over to join are now women. And so, this really changes who we're trying to counter this process with.
ISIL se razlikuje i po tome što nastoji stvoriti državu. Nije da samo regrutiraju borce; pokušavaju izgraditi državu. To odjedanput znači da regrutiraš šire mase. Ne trebaju ti samo borci... trebaju ti arhitekti, inženjeri, računovođe, hakeri i žene. Značajno raste broj žena koje odlaze u zadnjih 24, ali posebno zadnjih 12 mjeseci. U nekim zemljama jedna od četiri osobe koje se pridružuju sada su žene. To mijenja kome se ovdje suprotstavljamo.
Now, not all doom and gloom. So the rest I'd like to talk about some of the positive things and the new innovation in trying to prevent and counter violent extremism.
No nije sve tako crno. Voljela bih do kraja govoriti o nekim pozitivnim stvarima i novim inovacijama u pokušaju sprječavanja nasilnog ekstremizma.
Preventing is very different than countering, and actually, you can think of it in medical terms. So preventative medicine is, how do we make it so you are naturally resilient to this process of radicalization, whereas that is going to be different if somebody is already showing a symptom or a sign of belonging to a violent extremist ideology. And so in preventative measures, we're talking more about really broad groups of people and exposure to ideas to make them resilient. Whereas it's very different if somebody is starting to question and agree with certain things online, and it's also very different if somebody already has a swastika tattoo and is very much embedded within a group. How do you reach them?
Sprječavanje nije isto kao suprotstavljanje, a to se može pojasniti medicinskim pojmovima. Preventivni lijekovi čine vas prirodno otpornima na proces radikalizacije, što se razlikuje od situacije kada netko već pokazuje simptom ili znak pripadnosti nasilnoj ekstremističkoj ideologiji. Kod preventivnih mjera mislimo na vrlo široke skupine ljudi i izloženost idejama koje ih čine otpornima. A velika je razlika kada netko tek počinje propitivati neke stvari na internetu, i kada netko već ima tetovažu svastike i uklapa se u skupinu. Kako doprijeti do njih?
So I'd like to go through three examples of each one of those levels and talk you through what some of the new ways of engaging with people are becoming.
Prikazala bih tri primjera za svaku od tih razina i objasnila neke nove načine angažmana s ljudima.
One is "Extreme Dialogue," and it's an educational program that we helped develop. This one is from Canada, and it's meant to create dialogues within a classroom setting, using storytelling, because violent extremism can be very hard to try to explain, especially to younger individuals. So we have a network of former extremists and survivors of extremism that tell their stories through video and create question-giving to classrooms, to start a conversation about the topic.
Prvi je "ekstremni dijalog", to je obrazovni program koji smo pomogli razviti. Dolazi iz Kanade i cilj mu je stvoriti dijalog u razredu, koristeći prepričavanje jer nasilni ekstremizam zna biti teško objašnjiv, pogotovo mlađim pojedincima. Imamo mrežu bivših ekstremista i onih koji su preživjeli ekstremizam koji kroz videozapise pričaju priče i postavljaju pitanja kojima se pokreće razgovor o temi u razredu.
These two examples show Christianne, who lost her son, who radicalized and died fighting for ISIS, and Daniel is a former neo-Nazi who was an extremely violent neo-Nazi, and they pose questions about their lives and where they're at and regret, and force a classroom to have a dialogue around it.
Ova dva primjera prikazuju Christianne, koja je izgubila sina koji je postao radikal i poginuo za ISIL, te Daniela, bivšeg neonacista, iznimno nasilnog neonacista, i oni postavljaju pitanja o životu, o tome gdje su sada i za čim žale, te potiču raspravu o tome u razredu.
Now, looking at that middle range of individuals, actually, we need a lot of civil society voices. How do you interact with people that are looking for information online, that are starting to toy with an ideology, that are doing those searching identity questions? How do we provide alternatives for that? And that's when we combine large groups of civil society voices with creatives, techies, app developers, artists, comedians, and we can create really specified content and actually, online, disseminate it to very strategic audiences. So one example would be creating a satirical video which makes fun of Islamophobia, and targeting it to 15- to 20-year-olds online that have an interest in white power music and live specifically in Manchester.
Sada razmotrimo tu srednju razinu pojedinaca, tu nam treba puno građanskih glasova. Kako komunicirati s ljudima koji traže informacije na internetu, koji se počinju poigravati ideologijom, koji traže odgovore na pitanja o identitetu? Kako pružiti alternative za to? I tu moramo kombinirati velike skupine građanskih udruga sastavljene od kreativaca, tehničara, programera, umjetnika, komičara, i možemo stvoriti konkretan sadržaj koji bi se strateški širio na internetu. Na primjer, izradimo satiričan video koji ismijava islamofobe i koji je namijenjen osobama od 15 do 20 godina na internetu koje se zanimaju za nacističku glazbu i konkretno žive u Manchesteru.
We can use these marketing tools to be very specific, so that we know when somebody's viewing, watching and engaging with that content, it's not just the average person, it's not me or you -- it's a very specific audience that we are looking to engage with.
Takve promidžbene alate možemo izraditi da budu konkretni i da znamo kada netko gleda i postaje angažiran, ne radi se o prosječnoj osobi, o meni ili vama... radi se o konkretnoj publici koju želimo angažirati.
Even more downstream, we developed a pilot program called "One to One," where we took former extremists and we had them reach out directly to a group of labeled neofascists as well as Islamist extremists, and put direct messages through Facebook Messenger into their inbox, saying, "Hey, I see where you're going. I've been there. If you want to talk, I'm here." Now, we kind of expected death threats from this sort of interaction. It's a little alarming to have a former neo-Nazi say, "Hey, how are you?" But actually, we found that around 60 percent of the people reached out to responded, and of that, around another 60 percent had sustained engagement, meaning that they were having conversations with the hardest people to reach about what they were going through, planting seeds of doubt and giving them alternatives for talking about these subjects, and that's really important.
Još konkretnije, razvili smo probni program "Jedan na jedan", u kojem bivše ekstremiste tražimo da se izravno obrate skupini poznatih neofašista, kao i islamističkim ekstremistima, te pošalju izravne poruke putem Facebook Messengera, u kojima kažu: "Hej, vidim kamo ideš. Bio sam tamo. Ako želiš razgovarati, tu sam." Na neki smo način očekivali prijetnje u takvoj vrsti komunikacije. Zvuči opasno kada ti bivši neonacist kaže: "Hej, kako si?" Ali zapravo je oko 60 posto ljudi kojima smo se obratili odgovorilo, i oko 60 posto od tih ljudi reagiralo je na angažman, odnosno razgovaralo se s ljudima do kojih je najteže doprijeti o tome što im se događa, sijalo se sjeme sumnje i davale su im se alternative vezane uz te predmete, a to je jako važno.
So what we're trying to do is actually bring unlikely sectors to the table. We have amazing activists all over the world, but oftentimes, their messages are not strategic or they don't actually reach the audiences they want to reach. So we work with networks of former extremists. We work with networks of young people in different parts of the world. And we work with them to bring the tech sector to the table with artists and creatives and marketing expertise so that we can actually have a more robust and challenging of extremism that works together.
Ono što pokušavamo postići jest dovesti neočekivano za stol. Imamo sjajne aktiviste diljem svijeta, ali njihove poruke često nisu strateške ili ne dopiru do ljudi do kojih žele. Zato radimo s mrežama bivših ekstremista. Radimo s mrežama mladih u različitim dijelovima svijeta. I radimo tako da okupljamo tehničare, umjetnike, kreativce s iskustvom u marketingu tako da još čvršće izazovemo ekstremizam kroz međusobnu suradnju.
So I would say that if you are in the audience and you happen to be a graphic designer, a poet, a marketing expert, somebody that works in PR, a comedian -- you might not think that this is your sector, but actually, the skills that you have right now might be exactly what is needed to help challenge extremism effectively.
Ako ste sada u publici, a grafički ste dizajner, pjesnik, stručnjak za marketing, radite u odnosima s javnošću, komičar... možda mislite da ovo nije vaš sektor, no zapravo vještine koje imate možda su upravo ono što nam treba da se učinkovito suprotstavimo ekstremizmu.
Thank you.
Hvala.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)