Imagine you're in Rome, and you've made your way to the Vatican Museums. And you've been shuffling down long corridors, past statues, frescoes, lots and lots of stuff. You're heading towards the Sistine Chapel. At last -- a long corridor, a stair and a door. You're at the threshold of the Sistine Chapel.
想像一下你身在羅馬 而你終於來到了 梵蒂岡的博物館 你走過了長走廊 經過了雕像 壁畫 林林種種 你正向着西斯汀教堂 的方向前進 最後 —— 一條長廊 一堂樓梯 和一道門 終於來到了西斯汀教堂 的核心處
So what are you expecting? Soaring domes? Choirs of angels? We don't really have any of that there. Instead, you may ask yourself, what do we have?
你在期待著什麼呢 飽滿的圓頂 還是天使合唱團 其實那裡並沒有這些 那好 你可能會問自己 那哪裡有什麼呢
Well, curtains up on the Sistine Chapel. And I mean literally, you're surrounded by painted curtains, the original decoration of this chapel. Churches used tapestries not just to keep out cold during long masses, but as a way to represent the great theater of life. The human drama in which each one of us plays a part is a great story, a story that encompasses the whole world and that came to unfold in the three stages of the painting in the Sistine Chapel.
好吧 西斯汀教堂 掀起你的帳幕吧 我的意思是在字面上 你確是被繪上了圖畫的帳幕包圍着 這是這座教堂原本的裝飾 教堂採用了掛毯 不單只是為了 在舉行彌撒時可以保暖 同時也代表著 偉大的人生舞台 我們每一位都有參與的人生舞台劇 是一個偉大的故事 一個涵蓋了整個世界的故事 分開了三個階段去演繹 成就了西斯汀教堂的圖畫
Now, this building started out as a space for a small group of wealthy, educated Christian priests. They prayed there. They elected their pope there. Five hundred years ago, it was the ultimate ecclesiastical man cave. So, you may ask, how can it be that today it attracts and delights five million people a year, from all different backgrounds? Because in that compressed space, there was a creative explosion, ignited by the electric excitement of new geopolitical frontiers, which set on fire the ancient missionary tradition of the Church and produced one of the greatest works of art in history.
這座建築物當初開始的時候 是為一小部分人提供了空間 多是富裕而有學識的神父們 他們在那裡禱告 他們在那裡推選他們的教皇 五百年前 那是一個擁有無上榮譽的終極神父洞窟 所以你大概會問 那這個教堂 是如何做到每年能吸引 並將歡欣帶給來自完全不同背景的 五百萬人的呢 因為在那壓縮了的空間裡 存在了一種創意大爆發 新地緣政治的前沿變化 帶動而來的強烈刺激觸發了它 並點燃激發了教會的傳教傳統 同時也創造了歷史上 最偉大的藝術品之一
Now, this development took place as a great evolution, moving from the beginning of a few elite, and eventually able to speak to audiences of people that come from all over the world. This evolution took place in three stages, each one linked to a historical circumstance. The first one was rather limited in scope. It reflected the rather parochial perspective. The second one took place after worldviews were dramatically altered after Columbus's historical voyage; and the third, when the Age of Discovery was well under way and the Church rose to the challenge of going global.
這個發展如同 是一個偉大的進化 從開始的少數精英 到最後能夠 與來自全球的 所有群眾對話 這個進化過程 歷經了三個階段 每一個階段 都關連到一個歷史場境 第一個在範疇上比較狹窄 它反映了相當是教會的角度 第二個階段發生的時候 人類整個世界觀都已經有了戲劇性的改變 也就是在哥倫布的 歷史性旅程之後; 而第三個階段 則發生在如火如荼的大航海時代 而教會也正在面臨 走向全球的挑戰。
The original decoration of this church reflected a smaller world. There were busy scenes that told the stories of the lives of Jesus and Moses, reflecting the development of the Jewish and Christian people. The man who commissioned this, Pope Sixtus IV, assembled a dream team of Florentine art, including men like Sandro Botticelli and the man who would become Michelangelo's future painting teacher, Ghirlandaio. These men, they blanketed the walls with a frieze of pure color, and in these stories you'll notice familiar landscapes, the artists using Roman monuments or a Tuscan landscape to render a faraway story, something much more familiar. With the addition of images of the Pope's friends and family, this was a perfect decoration for a small court limited to the European continent. But in 1492, the New World was discovered, horizons were expanding, and this little 133 by 46-foot microcosm had to expand as well. And it did, thanks to a creative genius, a visionary and an awesome story.
這座教堂原來的裝飾 反映了一個比較細小的世界 那些擁擠的畫面 訴說著耶穌和摩西的生平事蹟 反映著猶太民族和基督教徒的發展 定下這個項目的人 教皇聖思道四世 召集了佛羅倫斯最好的藝術家 成員中包括桑德羅波堤切利 還有後來會成為了 米開朗基羅繪畫老師的 基爾蘭達約 這幾位為牆壁舖上了 帶狀裝飾的純色彩 而在這些故事中 你會看到熟悉的場景 藝術家們會用上 羅馬紀念碑或是托斯卡尼的街景 把一個久遠的故事 聯繫到 比較熟悉的一些東西 再加上一些圖像比如 教宗的朋友們和家庭 這是一個小庭的完美裝飾 只限於歐洲大陸 但是在1492年 人們發現了新大陸 各方面的範疇都在拓展 所以這個133乘以46呎的 微觀宇宙也得跟著拓展 它也的確跟上了時代的步伐 這得歸功於一位創作天才 創造出了高瞻遠矚的偉大故事。
Now, the creative genius was Michelangelo Buonarroti, 33 years old when he was tapped to decorate 12,000 square feet of ceiling, and the deck was stacked against him -- he had trained in painting but had left to pursue sculpture. There were angry patrons in Florence because he had left a stack of incomplete commissions, lured to Rome by the prospect of a great sculptural project, and that project had fallen through. And he had been left with a commission to paint 12 apostles against a decorative background in the Sistine Chapel ceiling, which would look like every other ceiling in Italy.
那位創作天才是 米開朗基羅波納羅蒂 當他被邀約去裝飾12,000平方呎的天花時 正值33歲 而整體情況並不利於他 他受訓於繪畫 但卻跑去了鑽研雕塑 在佛羅倫斯有許多客戶對他很不滿意 因為他留下了一批 未完成的定製項目 為着一個偉大的雕塑項目 而去到羅馬 但該項目卻流產了 剩下的一個定製項目 就是去畫12位門徒 就在西斯汀教堂 那個有裝飾的背景天花 那個在意大利 到哪裡 看起來都一樣的天花板
But genius rose to the challenge. In an age when a man dared to sail across the Atlantic Ocean, Michelangelo dared to chart new artistic waters. He, too, would tell a story -- no Apostles -- but a story of great beginnings, the story of Genesis.
但天才自能克服挑戰 在那個年代 有人敢於橫越大西洋 米開朗基羅就敢於 藝壇上開天闢地 他 同樣的 也會訴說一個故事 沒有門徒 但一個偉大的 磐古初開故事 創世紀的故事
Not really an easy sell, stories on a ceiling. How would you be able to read a busy scene from 62 feet below? The painting technique that had been handed on for 200 years in Florentine studios was not equipped for this kind of a narrative.
要想把故事畫到天花板上 並非易事 在距離天花壁62呎的地面, 有如何讓人能夠細閱這樣擁擠的畫面? 佛羅倫斯畫室 傳授了二百年的繪畫技巧 並不足以應付這類型的故事
But Michelangelo wasn't really a painter, and so he played to his strengths. Instead of being accustomed to filling space with busyness, he took a hammer and chisel and hacked away at a piece of marble to reveal the figure within. Michelangelo was an essentialist; he would tell his story in massive, dynamic bodies.
但米開朗基羅 其實並不真的是一位畫家 所以他發揮自己的所長 他並沒有隨俗的就把空間填滿 他反而拿起了鎚子和鏨刀 雕琢一塊大理石 釋放了其中蘊藏著的人物 米開朗基羅是一位本質主義者 他透過宏偉而互動的軀體講述故事
This plan was embraced by the larger-than-life Pope Julius II, a man who was unafraid of Michelangelo's brazen genius. He was nephew to Pope Sixtus IV, and he had been steeped in art for 30 years and he knew its power. And history has handed down the moniker of the Warrior Pope, but this man's legacy to the Vatican -- it wasn't fortresses and artillery, it was art. He left us the Raphael Rooms, the Sistine Chapel. He left St. Peter's Basilica as well as an extraordinary collection of Greco-Roman sculptures -- decidedly un-Christian works that would become the seedbed of the world's first modern museum, the Vatican Museums. Julius was a man who envisioned a Vatican that would be eternally relevant through grandeur and through beauty, and he was right. The encounter between these two giants, Michelangelo and Julius II, that's what gave us the Sistine Chapel. Michelangelo was so committed to this project, that he succeeded in getting the job done in three and a half years, using a skeleton crew and spending most of the time, hours on end, reaching up above his head to paint the stories on the ceiling.
這個計劃得到了 教皇尤利烏斯二世的支持 他是一位傳奇人物 無懼於米開朗基羅這樣自負的天才 他是教皇聖思道四世的外甥 而他亦沉醉於藝術達三十年 明瞭其中的力量 這位人物在歷史上 留下的名號是 戰鬥教皇 但對於梵諦岡來說 這位人物所留芳的 不是堡壘和大砲 是藝術 他遺留給我們的是拉裴爾房間 是西斯汀教堂 他遺留了聖彼得大教堂 還有古希臘-古羅馬雕塑的非凡收藏 這些非基督教的作品 很明確地孕育了 全球首間現代博物館 梵諦岡博物館 尤利烏斯是那種 能預見到梵諦岡可以透過恢宏和美 永恒地矗立的人 他是對的 這兩位偉人的相遇相知 米開朗基羅和尤利烏斯二世 為我們留下了西斯汀教堂 米開朗基羅 非常投入於這個項目 在三年半以內 他已經成功地完成了任務 採用節流的隊伍 投進大量時間 在他頭頂上的天花壁繪畫
So let's look at this ceiling and see storytelling gone global. No more familiar artistic references to the world around you. There's just space and structure and energy; a monumental painted framework which opens onto nine panels, more driven by sculptural form than painterly color. And we stand in the far end by the entrance, far from the altar and from the gated enclosure intended for the clergy and we peer into the distance, looking for a beginning. And whether in scientific inquiry or in biblical tradition, we think in terms of a primal spark. Michelangelo gave us an initial energy when he gave us the separation of light and dark, a churning figure blurry in the distance, compressed into a tight space. The next figure looms larger, and you see a figure hurtling from one side to the next. He leaves in his wake the sun, the moon, vegetation. Michelangelo didn't focus on the stuff that was being created, unlike all the other artists. He focused on the act of creation.
讓我們來看看這個天花板 和走向世界的故事 身邊再沒有熟悉 的藝術資料可供參考 那裡有的只是空間、架構和能量; 一幅不朽的繪畫架構 橫亙九個板塊 更多由雕塑形式所主導 而不只是繪畫顏色 我們站在入口的最遠處 遠離神壇及遠離只留給神職人員的 大門緊鎖的密室 而我們縱目看進去 尋覓一個開始 不管是從科學的查考 或是從聖經上的傳統 我們期待一種原始的火花 米開朗基羅給予我們 一種初始的能量 當他為我們分開了光和影 一位翻騰的人物 在距離中顯得糢糊 被壓縮進一個狹窄的空間 下一位人物顯得大一些 而你會看到一位人物 從一處飛馳往下一處 祂在醒著的時候 創造了太陽 月亮 植物 米開朗基羅的重點 並不在於被創造的事物 有別於所有其他的藝術家 他聚焦於創造這行為
And then the movement stops, like a caesura in poetry and the creator hovers. So what's he doing? Is he creating land? Is he creating sea? Or is he looking back over his handiwork, the universe and his treasures, just like Michelangelo must have, looking back over his work in the ceiling and proclaiming, "It is good."
然後所有的動態都戛然而止 如同在詩歌裡的休止 而創造者在徘徊 那祂在幹嗎哪 祂在創造大地 祂在創造大海 還是祂在顧盼著自己的創作 整個宇宙和他的珍寶 就像米開朗基羅那樣 顧盼著自己在天花壁上的作品 並且宣稱 幹得好
So now the scene is set, and you get to the culmination of creation, which is man. Adam leaps to the eye, a light figure against a dark background. But looking closer, that leg is pretty languid on the ground, the arm is heavy on the knee. Adam lacks that interior spark that will impel him to greatness. That spark is about to be conferred by the creator in that finger, which is one millimeter from the hand of Adam. It puts us at the edge of our seats, because we're one moment from that contact, through which that man will discover his purpose, leap up and take his place at the pinnacle of creation.
這樣下來整個場景已擬定 然後你來到了創造的高潮部分 創造人類 亞當躍進了眼裏 在深暗的背景上 跳入一個輕巧的身軀 但看得近一點 他的腿部痠軟地落在地上 手臂負苛在膝蓋上 亞當缺乏了 那種會促使他偉大 由內綻放出來的靈光 那靈光將會從創造者 的那手指授賜 就在亞當的手一毫米之距 這吸引了我們的專注 因為我們就在 那接觸的頃刻之間 在那一刻 人類會發現自己的意義 躍升到一個地位 成為了創造之顛
And then Michelangelo threw a curveball. Who is in that other arm? Eve, first woman. No, she's not an afterthought. She's part of the plan. She's always been in his mind. Look at her, so intimate with God that her hand curls around his arm. And for me, an American art historian from the 21st century, this was the moment that the painting spoke to me. Because I realized that this representation of the human drama was always about men and women -- so much so, that the dead center, the heart of the ceiling, is the creation of woman, not Adam. And the fact is, that when you see them together in the Garden of Eden, they fall together and together their proud posture turns into folded shame.
米開朗基羅再拋出了一個弧線球 誰在另一邊的手臂 夏娃 第一位女性 不 她不是事後想出來的 她是創造計畫的一部份 她從來都已經在祂心中。 看看她 和上帝很親厚 她的手繞著祂的手臂 對我來說 作為來自21世紀 美國的藝術歷史學者 這一刻 這幅圖畫最感動我 因為我體會到 在這個具代表性的人生戲劇 總是述說著男性和女性 最最重要的 夏娃在教堂的中央 在天花壁上的核心位置 主角其實是女性 而不是亞當 事實上 當你看到他倆在伊甸園 他倆雙雙墮落 他倆原來驕傲的姿勢 雙雙轉化為一種收納起的羞愧
You are at critical juncture now in the ceiling. You are exactly at the point where you and I can go no further into the church. The gated enclosure keeps us out of the inner sanctum, and we are cast out much like Adam and Eve. The remaining scenes in the ceiling, they mirror the crowded chaos of the world around us. You have Noah and his Ark and the flood. You have Noah. He's making a sacrifice and a covenant with God. Maybe he's the savior. Oh, but no, Noah is the one who grew grapes, invented wine, got drunk and passed out naked in his barn. It is a curious way to design the ceiling, now starting out with God creating life, ending up with some guy blind drunk in a barn. And so, compared with Adam, you might think Michelangelo is making fun of us.
你現在來到了天花壁上 最關鍵的交滙處 你正正處於一個位置 你和我在這座教堂裡 都需要止步的地方 那關上了閘的密室 讓我們無從再走進去內裡的聖所 如同亞當和夏娃一樣 我們被摒開了 天花壁上其餘的場景 倒映了我們四週那種擁擠的混亂 能看到挪亞和他的方舟和洪水 挪亞 他正在獻祭 並和上帝訂立盟約 可能他是那位救世者 噢 但不 挪亞種植葡萄 發明了酒 喝醉了後還赤裸裸地 休克在自己的榖場 那是一個奇異的方式去設計天花 從上帝創造萬物開始 而以一個宿醉在榖場的男人作結 所以 如果與亞當比起來 你大概會覺得米開朗基羅在開我們玩笑
But he's about to dispel the gloom by using those bright colors right underneath Noah: emerald, topaz, scarlet on the prophet Zechariah. Zechariah foresees a light coming from the east, and we are turned at this juncture to a new destination, with sibyls and prophets who will lead us on a parade. You have the heroes and heroines who make safe the way, and we follow the mothers and fathers. They are the motors of this great human engine, driving it forward.
但是他馬上就驅祛這愁緒 在挪亞的下方 借用了絢爛的顏色 翠綠 黃玉 斐紅 描繪出先知撒迦利亞 撒迦利亞預見了從東邊來的一道光 就在這個交滙點 我們就被導往新的目的地 女神喻者和先知們 帶領我們前往參與遊行隊伍 有英雄和英雌為你保駕護航 我們跟隨着先父先母們 他們就是人類社會的原動力 向前推進
And now we're at the keystone of the ceiling, the culmination of the whole thing, with a figure that looks like he's about to fall out of his space into our space, encroaching our space.
現在我們來到了天花的拱心石 整個天花壁的綜合之顛 有一位人物彷彿就要 離開他自己的空間 墮進來我們的世界 侵進來我們的世界
This is the most important juncture. Past meets present. This figure, Jonah, who spent three days in the belly of the whale, for the Christians, is the symbol of the renewal of humanity through Jesus' sacrifice, but for the multitudes of visitors to that museum from all faiths who visit there every day, he is the moment the distant past encounters and meets immediate reality.
這是一個最關鍵的交滙點 過去與現在相遇 這位人物 約拿 在鯨魚的肚腹內三天 對於基督徒來說 象徵著人類的重生 透過耶穌基督的犧牲 但對於來自五湖四海的博物館到訪者 對於每天都到那裡去的信徒 他就是久遠的過去 和眼前當下相遇的刹那
All of this brings us to the yawning archway of the altar wall, where we see Michelangelo's Last Judgment, painted in 1534 after the world had changed again. The Reformation had splintered the Church, the Ottoman Empire had made Islam a household word and Magellan had found a route into the Pacific Ocean. How is a 59-year-old artist who has never been any further than Venice going to speak to this new world? Michelangelo chose to paint destiny, that universal desire, common to all of us, to leave a legacy of excellence. Told in terms of the Christian vision of the Last Judgment, the end of the world, Michelangelo gave you a series of figures who are wearing these strikingly beautiful bodies. They have no more covers, no more portraits except for a couple. It's a composition only out of bodies, 391, no two alike, unique like each and every one of us. They start in the lower corner, breaking away from the ground, struggling and trying to rise. Those who have risen reach back to help others, and in one amazing vignette, you have a black man and a white man pulled up together in an incredible vision of human unity in this new world. The lion's share of the space goes to the winner's circle. There you find men and women completely nude like athletes. They are the ones who have overcome adversity, and Michelangelo's vision of people who combat adversity, overcome obstacles -- they're just like athletes. So you have men and women flexing and posing in this extraordinary spotlight. Presiding over this assembly is Jesus, first a suffering man on the cross, now a glorious ruler in Heaven. And as Michelangelo proved in his painting, hardship, setbacks and obstacles, they don't limit excellence, they forge it.
所有這些把我們帶到了 神壇牆壁上的拱廊 我們看到了米開朗基羅的 最後的審判 在1534年繪畫 那時候世界又再一次改變了 宗教改革削弱了教會 因為鄂圖曼帝國 伊斯蘭成了家傳户曉 而麥哲倫也找到了前往太平洋的航道 一位59歲的藝術家 最遠也只到過威尼斯 如何和這個新世界溝通呢 米開朗基羅選擇了描繪命運 整個宇宙都期盼 我們人人也一樣 遺傳下來優越的傳奇 從基督教角度而銓釋的 最後的審判 世界的終極 米開朗基羅給予你一系列的人物 他們都擁有極佳的肉體 他們都沒有遮蓋物 沒有畫像 除了極少數 那是由眾多的身軀組成的 391副身軀 通通沒有一樣的 就像我們每一位 都是獨一無二的人一樣 他們從下面的角落開始 脫離地面 掙扎著嘗試要奮起 那些已經成功起來的 會回去幫助其他人 在一幅奇妙的小插圖裡 你會看到一位黑人和一位白人並肩相扶 一種人類大融和的偉大願景 在這個新世界 絶大部分的空間歸屬於 勝利者的圈子 你會看到男性和女性 都如同運動健兒一樣裸體 他們都戰勝了逆境 在米開朗基羅的願景裡 戰勝了逆境的人們 克服了障礙 他們就如同運動健兒一樣 所以你會看到在這非同尋常的焦點上 無論男女 都在舒展筋骨 主持這集會的是耶穌 最初是十字架上的受難者 現在是天堂的榮耀統治者 如同米開朗基羅在 他的作品裡証實的一樣 苦難 挫折和阻礙 它們並沒有限制了優越 而是鍛造出了優越
Now, this does lead us to one odd thing. This is the Pope's private chapel, and the best way you can describe that is indeed a stew of nudes. But Michelangelo was trying to use only the best artistic language, the most universal artistic language he could think of: that of the human body. And so instead of the way of showing virtue such as fortitude or self-mastery, he borrowed from Julius II's wonderful collection of sculptures in order to show inner strength as external power.
現在 這其實也讓我們 看到一件滿蹩扭的事, 這是教皇的私人教堂 而這裡用最好的方式來描述 也其實是一堆裸體 但米開朗基羅只是想採用 最佳的藝術語言 他能夠想到的 最普遍通用的藝術語言 就是人體 所以他並沒有用上一般的方法 去表達美德 例如堅毅和自主 他反而從尤利烏斯二世的 絶佳收藏的雕塑品借鏡 去呈現出由內至外的 堅強和力量
Now, one contemporary did write that the chapel was too beautiful to not cause controversy. And so it did. Michelangelo soon found that thanks to the printing press, complaints about the nudity spread all over the place, and soon his masterpiece of human drama was labeled pornography, at which point he added two more portraits, one of the man who criticized him, a papal courtier, and the other one of himself as a dried up husk, no athlete, in the hands of a long-suffering martyr. The year he died he saw several of these figures covered over, a triumph for trivial distractions over his great exhortation to glory.
當代曾有評說 這樣漂亮的教堂必然會引起爭議 也確實是這樣 米開朗基羅很快就發現 因為媒體的關係 有關於裸體的投訴無處不在 不久之後 他的人類戲劇鉅作 被標籤為色情 在那個時候 他加上了兩個人的畫像 一個是抨擊他的那人 是教皇的助手 另外一個是他自己 扮成了乾涸的一副皮囊 而不是運動健兒 垂在一位久經辛酸的烈士手上 在他去世的那年 他目睹有幾位畫中的人物都披上了遮蓋物 微不足道的一些打岔 鳴勝了他偉大矢志的的榮耀
And so now we stand in the here and now. We are caught in that space between beginnings and endings, in the great, huge totality of the human experience. The Sistine Chapel forces us to look around as if it were a mirror. Who am I in this picture? Am I one of the crowd? Am I the drunk guy? Am I the athlete? And as we leave this haven of uplifting beauty, we are inspired to ask ourselves life's biggest questions: Who am I, and what role do I play in this great theater of life?
此時此地 我們就在這裡 我們都被擄在這個空間 在始初和終極之間 遊刃於偉大而恢宏全面的 人類體驗 西斯汀教堂好像一面鏡子 殷切的着我們環顧四週 在這幅圖畫裡 我是誰 我是擁擠人群裡的一員 我是那個醉漢嗎 我是運動健兒嗎 當我們離開了這處 愈形美麗的避難所 我們都得到了啟發 並且詢問自己 人生中最大的疑問 我是誰 在偉大的人生舞台上 我在扮演著甚麼樣的角色?
Thank you.
謝謝
(Applause)
(掌聲)
Bruno Giussani: Elizabeth Lev, thank you.
布魯諾吉薩尼: 伊麗莎白勒芙 謝謝
Elizabeth, you mentioned this whole issue of pornography, too many nudes and too many daily life scenes and improper things in the eyes of the time. But actually the story is bigger. It's not just touching up and covering up some of the figures. This work of art was almost destroyed because of that.
伊麗莎白 妳提述到色情 成為了一個大難題 在當時那一個年代的眾人眼裏 太多的裸體和太多的日常生活場景 是不恰當的 但其實整個故事牽扯到更廣 那不只是把一些人物補上和披上遮蓋物 這個藝術作品還幾乎被毁掉 就因為所謂的“色情”
Elizabeth Lev: The effect of the Last Judgment was enormous. The printing press made sure that everybody saw it. And so, this wasn't something that happened within a couple of weeks. It was something that happened over the space of 20 years of editorials and complaints, saying to the Church, "You can't possibly tell us how to live our lives. Did you notice you have pornography in the Pope's chapel?" And so after complaints and insistence of trying to get this work destroyed, it was finally the year that Michelangelo died that the Church finally found a compromise, a way to save the painting, and that was in putting up these extra 30 covers, and that happens to be the origin of fig-leafing. That's where it all came about, and it came about from a church that was trying to save a work of art, not indeed deface or destroyed it.
伊麗莎白勒芙:最後的審判 所帶來的影響非常巨大。 媒體矢志每一個人都要看到它 這樣下來 那不只是發生在 短短數週以內的事 而是發生了超逾二十年 包括各類型的社論和投訴 向西斯汀教堂表示 "你有什麼權利指揮 我們的生活 你連自己教皇的教堂 有色情圖畫都沒看到嗎?" 因為無數的投訴和堅持 致力於要毀去了這作品 最後在米開朗基羅去世的那年 西斯汀教堂最後找到了 一個妥協的方式 去保存這幅圖畫, 那就是加上了 額外的三十個覆蓋 那同時也成為了遮羞布的源起 所以故事就是這樣而來 來自一座教堂要拯救一幅藝術畫作 而不是要去損壞或毀掉了它
BG: This, what you just gave us, is not the classic tour that people get today when they go to the Sistine Chapel.
布魯諾吉薩尼: 妳剛剛給我們的 不是一個傳統的 今時今日一般民眾到訪 西斯汀教堂的歷程
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
EL: I don't know, is that an ad?
伊麗莎白勒芙: 我不知道 這算是廣告嗎
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
BG: No, no, no, not necessarily, it is a statement. The experience of art today is encountering problems. Too many people want to see this there, and the result is five million people going through that tiny door and experiencing it in a completely different way than we just did.
布魯諾吉薩尼: 不,不,不, 不能說是,那是一種表達 今時的藝術體驗都碰上了問題 太多的人想到那裏去看這個 造成了五百萬人都穿過了那小門 去體驗它 但卻是 和我們剛剛體驗過的 截然不同
EL: Right. I agree. I think it's really nice to be able to pause and look. But also realize, even when you're in those days, with 28,000 people a day, even those days when you're in there with all those other people, look around you and think how amazing it is that some painted plaster from 500 years ago can still draw all those people standing side by side with you, looking upwards with their jaws dropped. It's a great statement about how beauty truly can speak to us all through time and through geographic space.
伊麗莎白勒芙: 對 我同意 我覺得能夠停下來好好的欣賞 是很棒的一回事 同時也感悟到 就算是在那些日子 每天和28,000人在一起 即便和那些人在一起 的日子 環顧四週你也會覺得很神妙 一些五百年前塗上了畫的石膏 仍然能夠吸引到他們 和你一起並肩的站著 仰起頭看得入神 下顎都掉下來了 那是一個偉大的証明 真善美如何能夠 穿越時空和我們對話
BG: Liz, grazie.
布魯諾吉薩尼: 謝謝
EL: Grazie a te.
布魯諾吉薩尼:伊麗莎白 謝謝
BG: Thank you.
伊麗莎白勒芙: 謝謝您
(Applause)
(掌聲)