This is the venue where, as a young man, some of the music that I wrote was first performed. It was, remarkably, a pretty good sounding room. With all the uneven walls and all the crap everywhere, it actually sounded pretty good. This is a song that was recorded there. (Music) This is not Talking Heads, in the picture anyway. (Music: "A Clean Break (Let's Work)" by Talking Heads) So the nature of the room meant that words could be understood. The lyrics of the songs could be pretty much understood. The sound system was kind of decent. And there wasn't a lot of reverberation in the room. So the rhythms could be pretty intact too, pretty concise. Other places around the country had similar rooms. This is Tootsie's Orchid Lounge in Nashville. The music was in some ways different, but in structure and form, very much the same. The clientele behavior was very much the same too. And so the bands at Tootsie's or at CBGB's had to play loud enough -- the volume had to be loud enough to overcome people falling down, shouting out and doing whatever else they were doing.
就是這個場地, 我年輕的時候 一些當時寫的音樂,最早是在這裡演出的。 這個空間有相當 好的音效。 不平坦的牆面,那些雜七雜八的東西, 其實製造出很好的音效。 這首歌是在那裏錄製的。 (音樂) 這不是面部特寫, 我是指照片裡的不是面部特寫。 (音樂:徹底決裂 (我們分手吧) 面部特寫合唱團演唱) 這個場地的特色, 是要讓每一個字都可以被聽到。 歌詞可以被清楚的聽到。 這裡的音響系統還蠻不錯的, 也沒有太多的回聲。 所以音樂的節拍, 也相當完整, 相當簡潔。 美國還有類似的場地。 這是那什維爾的杜絲蘭花酒吧。 這裡的音樂不太一樣, 但就結構和形式而言, 其實大同小異。 客人們的行為也幾乎一樣。 所以樂團在杜絲蘭花酒吧 或是在CBGB's (註:位於紐約的酒吧,龐克音樂誕生地) 必須演奏得夠大聲, 音量要大到足以蓋過 人們跌倒、吶喊, 及其他任何的聲音。
Since then, I've played other places that are much nicer. I've played the Disney Hall here and Carnegie Hall and places like that. And it's been very exciting. But I also noticed that sometimes the music that I had written, or was writing at the time, didn't sound all that great in some of those halls. We managed, but sometimes those halls didn't seem exactly suited to the music I was making or had made. So I asked myself: Do I write stuff for specific rooms? Do I have a place, a venue, in mind when I write? Is that a kind of model for creativity? Do we all make things with a venue, a context, in mind?
之後,我在一些 更好的地方表演, 迪士尼音樂廳、 卡內基音樂廳等等。 這一切令人很興奮。 但是我也注意到,有時 我所寫好的音樂, 或是當時正在創作的音樂, 在某些音樂廳裡 聽起來並不是那麼的好。 我們設法解決, 但有時候那些場地完全不合適 我當時正在創作的, 或已經寫好的音樂。 我問自己: 「我是為了某個特定的場地 寫音樂嗎? 我在創作音樂時, 是否有一個特定地方在我的腦海中?」 「這是不是一種創造的模式?」 「是不是在我們創造的當下 心中都存有某個場地,某種背景情境?」
Okay, Africa. (Music: "Wenlenga" / Various artists) Most of the popular music that we know now has a big part of its roots in West Africa. And the music there, I would say, the instruments, the intricate rhythms, the way it's played, the setting, the context, it's all perfect. It all works perfect. The music works perfectly in that setting. There's no big room to create reverberation and confuse the rhythms. The instruments are loud enough that they can be heard without amplification, etc., etc. It's no accident. It's perfect for that particular context. And it would be a mess in a context like this. This is a gothic cathedral. (Music: "Spem In Alium" by Thomas Tallis) In a gothic cathedral, this kind of music is perfect. It doesn't change key, the notes are long, there's almost no rhythm whatsoever, and the room flatters the music. It actually improves it. This is the room that Bach wrote some of his music for. This is the organ. It's not as big as a gothic cathedral, so he can write things that are a little bit more intricate. He can, very innovatively, actually change keys without risking huge dissonances. (Music: "Fantasia On Jesu, Mein Freunde" by Johann S. Bach)
好,來看看非洲。 (音樂:Wenlenga,眾多藝人合唱) 許多我們所熟悉的流行音樂, 有很大一部分是源自於西非。 那裏的音樂, 它的樂器, 複雜的節奏, 演奏的方式,譜曲,整首曲子的氛圍, 真是太完美了! 一切都搭配的完美極了! 這首曲子在那個場地演奏效果非常棒! 沒有大的室內場地 會製造回聲,把節奏攪亂。 所有樂器的音量也夠大聲 不需要擴音都能聽得到,還有其它一些因素...。 這並非偶然, 在這特定的背景情境中,這一切都無懈可擊。 但要是換到了這裡, 哥德式大教堂,那可就會一塌糊塗了! (音樂:"寄託的希望" 四十聲部經文歌 湯瑪斯.泰利斯 作曲) 在哥德式大教堂裡,這樣的音樂是完美無暇的。 這建築物不會改變音調,音符拉的很長, 這樣的音樂沒有強烈節奏。 這空間使音樂顯得更美, 其實還提升、改善了音樂。 巴哈為了這個場地 寫了一些音樂。這是管風琴。 這裡不如哥德式大教堂那麼大, 所以巴哈可以作一些複雜的曲子。 他可以盡情的創作, 放手改編曲調, 無須擔心樂曲會過於不諧調。 (音樂:"幻想曲 耶穌,我的至寶" 約翰.塞巴斯蒂安.巴哈 作曲)
This is a little bit later. This is the kind of rooms that Mozart wrote in. I think we're in like 1770, somewhere around there. They're smaller, even less reverberant, so he can write really frilly music that's very intricate -- and it works. (Music: "Sonata in F," KV 13, by Wolfgang A. Mozart) It fits the room perfectly. This is La Scala. It's around the same time, I think it was built around 1776. People in the audience in these opera houses, when they were built, they used to yell out to one another. They used to eat, drink and yell out to people on the stage, just like they do at CBGB's and places like that. If they liked an aria, they would holler and suggest that it be done again as an encore, not at the end of the show, but immediately. (Laughter) And well, that was an opera experience. This is the opera house that Wagner built for himself. And the size of the room is not that big. It's smaller than this. But Wagner made an innovation. He wanted a bigger band. He wanted a little more bombast, so he increased the size of the orchestra pit so he could get more low-end instruments in there. (Music: "Lohengrin / Prelude to Act III" by Richard Wagner)
這是後來, 莫札特在像這樣的空間裡創作。 這大約是1770年左右。 這樣的空間比較小,回聲也比較少。 因此莫札特可以寫很華麗的、 很複雜的樂曲,而且效果很好。 (音樂:"奏鳴曲 F大調" KV13 沃爾夫岡.阿瑪迪斯,莫札特作曲) 這首奏鳴曲非常適合這裡。 這是史卡拉歌劇院, 同一時期的建築, 大約建於1776年左右, 當時歌劇院裡的觀眾, 會彼此呼來喚去, 會吃東西,喝飲料,還會對台上的人叫喊, 就像CBGB's的觀眾一般。 如果他們喜歡某段詠歎調, 就會大聲喊安可, 要求再把這一段唱一遍, 觀眾會馬上喊安可,不是等到表演完畢。 (笑聲) 嗯,那是一種聆聽歌劇的經驗。 這是華格納為自己蓋的歌劇院。 這個空間並不是那麼的大。 比起現在這裡小。 但是華格納有一項創舉, 他想要容納更大的樂團, 想要讓音樂更華麗一些, 所以他把樂池給加大了, 這麼一來就可以容納更多的低音樂器。 (音樂:"羅安格林 / 序曲至第三幕" 華格納 作曲)
Okay. This is Carnegie Hall. Obviously, this kind of thing became popular. The halls got bigger. Carnegie Hall's fair-sized. It's larger than some of the other symphony halls. And they're a lot more reverberant than La Scala. Around the same, according to Alex Ross who writes for the New Yorker, this kind of rule came into effect that audiences had to be quiet -- no more eating, drinking and yelling at the stage, or gossiping with one another during the show. They had to be very quiet. So those two things combined meant that a different kind of music worked best in these kind of halls. It meant that there could be extreme dynamics, which there weren't in some of these other kinds of music. Quiet parts could be heard that would have been drowned out by all the gossiping and shouting. But because of the reverberation in those rooms like Carnegie Hall, the music had to be maybe a little less rhythmic and a little more textural. (Music: "Symphony No. 8 in E Flat Major" by Gustav Mahler) This is Mahler. It looks like Bob Dylan, but it's Mahler. That was Bob's last record, yeah.
好, 這是卡內基音樂廳。 顯然這股風潮流行起來流, 音樂廳越來越大,卡內基音樂廳就很大, 比其他音樂廳都要來的大。 比史卡拉歌劇院 回聲也大得多。 在這個時期, 根據《紐約客》音樂評論 艾力克斯.羅斯的說法, 開始有欣賞古典音樂的禮節: 觀眾必須安靜, 不准進食,喝飲料,也不可以對著舞台大叫, 在表演進行時, 不得在席間交頭接耳。 觀眾必須非常地安靜。 這兩件事結合起來意味著 有一種不同的音樂, 最適合在這些音樂廳中演出。 意味著音樂的張力可以展現到極致, 這在其他類型的音樂 是看不到的。 以前被觀眾叫喊或交頭接耳的聲音 給淹沒的輕柔樂曲 現在可以聽得一清二楚。 因為回聲變大了, 像卡內基音樂廳這樣的場地, 音樂的節奏性必須不是那麼強, 而要更注重樂曲的整體諧和。 (音樂:" 降E大調第八號交響曲 「千人」" 馬勒 作曲) 這是馬勒, 看起來像巴布狄倫,但是是馬勒, 對啦,是巴布狄倫最後一次錄音,沒錯!
(Laughter)
(笑聲)
Popular music, coming along at the same time. This is a jazz band. According to Scott Joplin, the bands were playing on riverboats and clubs. Again, it's noisy. They're playing for dancers. There's certain sections of the song -- the songs had different sections that the dancers really liked. And they'd say, "Play that part again." Well, there's only so many times you can play the same section of a song over and over again for the dancers. So the bands started to improvise new melodies. And a new form of music was born. (Music: "Royal Garden Blues" by W.C. Handy / Ethel Waters) These are played mainly in small rooms. People are dancing, shouting and drinking. So the music has to be loud enough to be heard above that. Same thing goes true for -- that's the beginning of the century -- for the whole of 20th-century popular music, whether it's rock or Latin music or whatever. [Live music] doesn't really change that much.
同一時期,流行音樂興起了, 這是一個爵士樂團 斯科特 · 喬普林說當他們的樂團 在船上及俱樂部裡表演時, 這些場地也是很吵雜。他們演奏的對象是舞客。 舞客們非常喜愛樂曲裡的某一段, 許多樂曲裡的不同的片段, 舞客會說:「那一段再來一遍吧。」 嗯,同樣的片段, 你頂多只能重複表演個幾次, 所以樂團開始臨場即興創作新的旋律, 一種新的音樂風格誕生了。 (音樂:"皇家花園藍調曲" W.C.韓第 / 艾索華特斯 演出) 這種新的音樂多半是在小場地表演。 觀眾會跳舞,叫喊,喝酒, 所以音樂必須要夠大聲, 大過其他所有的聲音, 二十世紀初的音樂皆然。 整個二十世紀的流行音樂— 不論是搖滾、拉丁,或其他類型的音樂, 都沒有多大的改變,
It changes about a third of the way into the 20th century, when this became one of the primary venues for music. And this was one way that the music got there. Microphones enabled singers, in particular, and musicians and composers, to completely change the kind of music that they were writing. So far, a lot of the stuff that was on the radio was live music, but singers, like Frank Sinatra, could use the mic and do things that they could never do without a microphone. Other singers after him went even further. (Music: "My Funny Valentine" by Chet Baker) This is Chet Baker. And this kind of thing would have been impossible without a microphone. It would have been impossible without recorded music as well. And he's singing right into your ear. He's whispering into your ears. The effect is just electric. It's like the guy is sitting next to you, whispering who knows what into your ear.
一直到了30年代,開始有了變化, 收音機變成了 演奏的主要場地之一, 麥克風成為 音樂傳送的方式。 麥克風讓音樂家和作曲家 尤其是歌手, 完完全全的改變了 他們當時所寫的音樂的類型。 這個時期,收音機播放的多是現場演奏的音樂, 但是歌手們,像法蘭克辛納屈, 可以用麥克風 來表現一些在沒有麥克風之前 是不可能辦到的演唱技巧。 法蘭克辛納屈之後的歌手, 把麥克風更發揚光大。 (音樂:"我可笑的情人" 查特.貝克 演唱) 這是查特.貝克, 留聲機這樣的機器, 沒有麥克風是不可能的, 要是沒有錄製的音樂也是不可能的。 這就像查特.貝克正在你的耳邊唱歌, 就像他正在你的耳邊輕柔的唱歌。 感覺好像觸電一樣, 就像他就坐在你旁邊, 對著你的耳朵輕聲細語。
So at this point, music diverged. There's live music, and there's recorded music. And they no longer have to be exactly the same. Now there's venues like this, a discotheque, and there's jukeboxes in bars, where you don't even need to have a band. There doesn't need to be any live performing musicians whatsoever, and the sound systems are good. People began to make music specifically for discos and for those sound systems. And, as with jazz, the dancers liked certain sections more than they did others. So the early hip-hop guys would loop certain sections. (Music: "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang) The MC would improvise lyrics in the same way that the jazz players would improvise melodies. And another new form of music was born.
這時音樂發展有了新的走向。 有現場音樂, 有錄音音樂, 現場音樂和錄音音樂不必完全一樣。 後來迪斯科舞廳出現了, 酒吧裡有點唱機, 在這些地方甚至不需要樂團。 這些地方不再需要 現場表演的樂手了。 音響系統也很棒。 歌手開始針對迪斯科 及音響系統 來創作音樂。 就像爵士樂一樣, 這些舞客也特別喜歡 曲子裡的某一段, 所以早期的嘻哈饒舌歌手會一直重複某一個部分。 (音樂:"說唱樂手的樂趣" 糖山幫 演唱) 饒舌歌手會現場即興創作歌詞, 就像爵士樂手即興創作新旋律一般。 因此,一種新的音樂形式誕生了。
Live performance, when it was incredibly successful, ended up in what is probably, acoustically, the worst sounding venues on the planet: sports stadiums, basketball arenas and hockey arenas. Musicians who ended up there did the best they could. They wrote what is now called arena rock, which is medium-speed ballads. (Music: "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" by U2) They did the best they could given that this is what they're writing for. The tempos are medium. It sounds big. It's more a social situation than a musical situation. And in some ways, the music that they're writing for this place works perfectly.
當時非常成功的現場音樂表演, 來到了可能是音效、 音響系統最糟的場地, 像體育場、 籃球場、及曲棍球場。 在這些場地表演的樂手們可是卯足了全力, 創作出體育館搖滾樂, 是一種不快不慢的歌曲。 (音樂:"我仍未找到我所找尋的" U2 演唱) 以體育館搖滾樂這種音樂類型而言, 他們表現的非常好, 節奏不疾不徐,聲音很大。 這比較像是一個社交場合, 反而不像是音樂場合。 而且從某些角度來看,他們創作的音樂, 在體育館這一類場地 表演起來非常的棒。
So there's more new venues. One of the new ones is the automobile. I grew up with a radio in a car. But now that's evolved into something else. The car is a whole venue. (Music: "Who U Wit" by Lil' Jon & the East Side Boyz) The music that, I would say, is written for automobile sound systems works perfectly on it. It might not be what you want to listen to at home, but it works great in the car -- has a huge frequency spectrum, you know, big bass and high-end and the voice kind of stuck in the middle. Automobile music, you can share with your friends.
還有更新的場地, 車子是其中之一。 我成長的過程中,車子裡有收音機。 但是現在已經演進成新的東西, 這輛車是自成一格音樂場地。 (音樂:"你跟誰" 力.喬恩 & 東城男孩 演出) 我認為這首歌是專門為了 汽車音響而寫的, 而且在汽車裡播放效果非棒。 你不會想在家裡聽這樣的音樂, 但在汽車裡聽起來很棒, 有很廣的振動頻率範圍, 有重低音也有高音, 歌手的聲音正好在中間。 汽車音樂可以和朋友們一起聽。
There's one other kind of new venue, the private MP3 player. Presumably, this is just for Christian music. (Laughter) And in some ways it's like Carnegie Hall, or when the audience had to hush up, because you can now hear every single detail. In other ways, it's more like the West African music because if the music in an MP3 player gets too quiet, you turn it up, and the next minute, your ears are blasted out by a louder passage. So that doesn't really work. I think pop music, mainly, it's written today, to some extent, is written for these kind of players, for this kind of personal experience where you can hear extreme detail, but the dynamic doesn't change that much.
而有另一種新的音樂演出場地: MP3播放器。 播放的很可能是基督教音樂。 (笑聲) 從某些方面來看,MP3就像卡內基音樂廳, 你必須安靜下來, 每一個細節都能聽得清清楚楚。 而從另一方面來看,MP3又更像西非音樂, 當你聽MP3,音樂變小聲時, 你把音量調大聲,然後 音樂大聲到好像在轟炸你的耳朵。 音樂忽小忽大是不行的。 我認為在某種程度上, 現在流行音樂的創作, 主要是為了像MP3這類的播放器, 是為了像這樣個人化的聆聽經驗而寫的, 你可以聽到非常細微的細節, 但是音樂還是張力十足。
So I asked myself: Okay, is this a model for creation, this adaptation that we do? And does it happen anywhere else? Well, according to David Attenborough and some other people, birds do it too -- that the birds in the canopy, where the foliage is dense, their calls tend to be high-pitched, short and repetitive. And the birds on the floor tend to have lower pitched calls, so that they don't get distorted when they bounce off the forest floor. And birds like this Savannah sparrow, they tend to have a buzzing (Sound clip: Savannah sparrow song) type call. And it turns out that a sound like this is the most energy efficient and practical way to transmit their call across the fields and savannahs. Other birds, like this tanager, have adapted within the same species. The tananger on the East Coast of the United States, where the forests are a little denser, has one kind of call, and the tananger on the other side, on the west (Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song) has a different kind of call. (Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song) So birds do it too.
所以我問我自己: 「我們這樣的改變、適應, 這究竟是不是 一種創作的模式? 這是否也發生在其他的領域?」 大衛·艾登伯祿及一些人認為 鳥類也有同樣的行為。 在樹葉濃密的樹冠層 生活的鳥類, 聲調往往較高、 叫聲短促且重複。 住在森林地面的鳥類 叫聲則較低沉, 這麼一來,當他們的叫聲在森林裡傳送時, 聲音才不至於變調、失真。 像稀樹草鵐這類的鳥, 叫聲是持續的 (聲音:稀樹草鵐鳴叫聲) 一種低鳴聲。 結果聽起來 像是這樣, 這是高效率又聰明的 聲音傳送方法, 可以穿越廣闊的原野,傳達給其它的稀樹草鵐。 其它的鳥,像唐納雀, 在同類中也有這種改變、適應的例子發生。 美國東岸 森林較濃密, 這裡的唐納雀有一種叫聲; 而西岸的唐納雀 (聲音:緋紅風琴鳥鳴叫聲) 叫聲則不一樣。 (聲音:緋紅風琴鳥鳴叫聲) 鳥類也會因適應環境而改變叫聲。
And I thought: Well, if this is a model for creation, if we make music, primarily the form at least, to fit these contexts, and if we make art to fit gallery walls or museum walls, and if we write software to fit existing operating systems, is that how it works? Yeah. I think it's evolutionary. It's adaptive. But the pleasure and the passion and the joy is still there. This is a reverse view of things from the kind of traditional Romantic view. The Romantic view is that first comes the passion and then the outpouring of emotion, and then somehow it gets shaped into something. And I'm saying, well, the passion's still there, but the vessel that it's going to be injected into and poured into, that is instinctively and intuitively created first. We already know where that passion is going. But this conflict of views is kind of interesting.
我想: 「這是否是一種創作的模式; 是否我們創作音樂時, 根本的考量就是,最起碼音樂的形式 要完全合適表演場地的背景環境? 是否埋首藝術創作時,我們想著作品得適合美術館的牆? 是否設計軟體時,我們想著如何相容於在現有的作業系統? 這是不是我們創作時的心理狀態?」 是的,在我看來,這是一種進化, 音樂發展的適應性, 可是創作音樂的快樂、熱情和喜悅 仍然在那兒。 從傳統浪漫的觀點來看, 這是相反的看法, 傳統浪漫的觀點認為 音樂創作首先有源自於音樂家的熱情, 將其湧現的情感傾注其間, 音樂作品隨之成形。 而我認為, 創作的熱情始終都在, 而要承接 這股熱情的作品, 早已直覺地 被創造出來。 那一股創作的熱情始終都在, 這兩種相互衝突的觀點其實蠻有趣的。
The writer, Thomas Frank, says that this might be a kind of explanation why some voters vote against their best interests, that voters, like a lot of us, assume, that if they hear something that sounds like it's sincere, that it's coming from the gut, that it's passionate, that it's more authentic. And they'll vote for that. So that, if somebody can fake sincerity, if they can fake passion, they stand a better chance of being selected in that way, which seems a little dangerous. I'm saying the two, the passion, the joy, are not mutually exclusive.
作者 湯瑪斯‧法蘭克 說: 有一種解釋可以說明, 為什麼許多 像我們這樣的選民 會把票投給那些 聽起來好像很誠懇, 像是發自內心、熱情激昂,好像比較真實的候選人, 而不是投給對自己有最大利益的候選人, 人們會把票投給那樣的人。 這麼一來,如果某個人裝的很誠懇, 裝的滿腔熱情, 那麼當選的機會 就更大了, 這樣似乎有點危險。 我的意思是:熱情與喜悅這兩者 並不是互相排斥的。
Maybe what the world needs now is for us to realize that we are like the birds. We adapt. We sing. And like the birds, the joy is still there, even though we have changed what we do to fit the context.
或許現在我們最需要的是要瞭解的是, 我們也像鳥兒一樣, 我們適應環境, 我們唱歌; 而且也像鳥兒一樣,那一份喜悅始終都在, 就算我們必須改變 以適應環境。
Thank you very much.
非常謝謝您!
(Applause)
(掌聲)