This is the venue where, as a young man, some of the music that I wrote was first performed. It was, remarkably, a pretty good sounding room. With all the uneven walls and all the crap everywhere, it actually sounded pretty good. This is a song that was recorded there. (Music) This is not Talking Heads, in the picture anyway. (Music: "A Clean Break (Let's Work)" by Talking Heads) So the nature of the room meant that words could be understood. The lyrics of the songs could be pretty much understood. The sound system was kind of decent. And there wasn't a lot of reverberation in the room. So the rhythms could be pretty intact too, pretty concise. Other places around the country had similar rooms. This is Tootsie's Orchid Lounge in Nashville. The music was in some ways different, but in structure and form, very much the same. The clientele behavior was very much the same too. And so the bands at Tootsie's or at CBGB's had to play loud enough -- the volume had to be loud enough to overcome people falling down, shouting out and doing whatever else they were doing.
就是这个地方 那时我还年轻 我的音乐首演就是在这里 特别强调一下,这是一个 声音效果非常棒的房间 墙面凹凸不平,到处都是垃圾 它的音效实际上却非常不错 这首歌就是在那里录制的 (音乐) 不过照片里的 还不是传声头像(著名摇滚乐队) (音乐:"A Clean Break (Let's Work)" 传声头像) 这房间的结构 让吐字变得易于理解 歌词很容易听清 音响系统相当不错 房间里的混响也不太大 因此旋律 保存得相当完好 相当凝练 国内还有很多地方有这样的房间 这是纳什维尔的Tootsie's Orchid Lounge 这里的音乐有些不同 但结构和形式 却很相似 客人的行为习惯也很类似 因此在Tootsie's和 CBGB(纽约传奇摇滚音乐俱乐部)里表演的乐队 都必须演奏得非常大声—— 音量要大得足以压过 人们跌倒、大吼大叫 或者发出的其他声音
Since then, I've played other places that are much nicer. I've played the Disney Hall here and Carnegie Hall and places like that. And it's been very exciting. But I also noticed that sometimes the music that I had written, or was writing at the time, didn't sound all that great in some of those halls. We managed, but sometimes those halls didn't seem exactly suited to the music I was making or had made. So I asked myself: Do I write stuff for specific rooms? Do I have a place, a venue, in mind when I write? Is that a kind of model for creativity? Do we all make things with a venue, a context, in mind?
在那以后,我还在其他 更高级的场所表演过 我在这里的迪斯尼音乐厅 或是卡内基音乐厅之类的地方演奏过 都是激动人心的经历 但我也发现,有时候 我之前 或是当时谱写的歌曲 在其中的一些音乐厅 表现得并不理想 我们尽量做了调整 但有些时候,那些地方 和我创作的音乐 就是显得不太协调 我问自己 我是不是在为着什么特定的场所 进行创作呢? 在我创作时,脑海中 是不是有一个地点、一个场所呢? 这算不算是一种创作模式呢? 我们创作时是不是 脑海中都有着某个场所、某个情境?
Okay, Africa. (Music: "Wenlenga" / Various artists) Most of the popular music that we know now has a big part of its roots in West Africa. And the music there, I would say, the instruments, the intricate rhythms, the way it's played, the setting, the context, it's all perfect. It all works perfect. The music works perfectly in that setting. There's no big room to create reverberation and confuse the rhythms. The instruments are loud enough that they can be heard without amplification, etc., etc. It's no accident. It's perfect for that particular context. And it would be a mess in a context like this. This is a gothic cathedral. (Music: "Spem In Alium" by Thomas Tallis) In a gothic cathedral, this kind of music is perfect. It doesn't change key, the notes are long, there's almost no rhythm whatsoever, and the room flatters the music. It actually improves it. This is the room that Bach wrote some of his music for. This is the organ. It's not as big as a gothic cathedral, so he can write things that are a little bit more intricate. He can, very innovatively, actually change keys without risking huge dissonances. (Music: "Fantasia On Jesu, Mein Freunde" by Johann S. Bach)
好了,这是非洲 (音乐: "Wenlenga" / 多名艺术家) 当今我们所知的大部分流行音乐 有很大一部分是源于西非的 而这里的音乐 要我说,这乐器 这复杂的节奏 演奏的方式,背景,情境 一切都很完美,协调得天衣无缝 在那种背景下,这样的音乐是完美的 没有大房间 制造混响,干扰节奏 乐器的声音也够大 即使没有功放之类的设备也能听得一清二楚 这不是偶然的 这音乐只在特定情境下才表现得如此完美 如果改成这样的场所 那就会一团糟。这是一座哥特式大教堂 (音乐:"Spem In Alium" 托马斯·塔利斯) 在哥特式大教堂,这类的音乐才是完美的 不改变音调,音符拖得很长 基本上没有节奏 而这个房间则为音乐锦上添花 实际上,它提升了音乐 这里是巴赫为其 创作乐曲的地方。这是管风琴 这里并没有哥特式大教堂那么大 所以他可以创作更繁复的作品 他可以标新立异 改变调子 而不会发生不协和和音 (音乐:"Fantasia On Jesu, Mein Freunde" 约翰·S·巴赫)
This is a little bit later. This is the kind of rooms that Mozart wrote in. I think we're in like 1770, somewhere around there. They're smaller, even less reverberant, so he can write really frilly music that's very intricate -- and it works. (Music: "Sonata in F," KV 13, by Wolfgang A. Mozart) It fits the room perfectly. This is La Scala. It's around the same time, I think it was built around 1776. People in the audience in these opera houses, when they were built, they used to yell out to one another. They used to eat, drink and yell out to people on the stage, just like they do at CBGB's and places like that. If they liked an aria, they would holler and suggest that it be done again as an encore, not at the end of the show, but immediately. (Laughter) And well, that was an opera experience. This is the opera house that Wagner built for himself. And the size of the room is not that big. It's smaller than this. But Wagner made an innovation. He wanted a bigger band. He wanted a little more bombast, so he increased the size of the orchestra pit so he could get more low-end instruments in there. (Music: "Lohengrin / Prelude to Act III" by Richard Wagner)
这是晚些时候 类似莫扎特创作时所在的房间 我想大概是1770年左右的建筑 它们空间更小,混响也更小 所以他能作出可谓华丽的曲子 他的音乐非常繁复——而且效果甚佳 (音乐:"F小调奏鸣曲" 乌夫冈·A·莫扎特) 它完美地契合了这个房间 这是斯卡啦剧院(位于意大利米兰) 它和之前的那个房间差不多建造于同一时期 我想大概建于1776年 在歌剧院建成的时期 里面的听众常常互相嚷嚷 他们经常一边大吃大喝,一边和舞台上的人大喊大叫 就像CBGB这类场所的观众一样 如果他们喜欢其中一段咏叹调 会大喊着建议 这一段再演一次 不是在演出最后再演一次,而是马上重演 (笑声) 嗯,那就是看歌剧的经验之谈 这是瓦格纳自己建造的歌剧院 剧院的规模不是很大 比这里要小 但是瓦格纳进行了革新 他想要一支更大的乐队 多一点浮华的感觉 于是他增加了乐池的面积 这样就可以容纳更多的低音乐器 (音乐:"罗恩格林/第三幕序曲" 理查德·瓦格纳)
Okay. This is Carnegie Hall. Obviously, this kind of thing became popular. The halls got bigger. Carnegie Hall's fair-sized. It's larger than some of the other symphony halls. And they're a lot more reverberant than La Scala. Around the same, according to Alex Ross who writes for the New Yorker, this kind of rule came into effect that audiences had to be quiet -- no more eating, drinking and yelling at the stage, or gossiping with one another during the show. They had to be very quiet. So those two things combined meant that a different kind of music worked best in these kind of halls. It meant that there could be extreme dynamics, which there weren't in some of these other kinds of music. Quiet parts could be heard that would have been drowned out by all the gossiping and shouting. But because of the reverberation in those rooms like Carnegie Hall, the music had to be maybe a little less rhythmic and a little more textural. (Music: "Symphony No. 8 in E Flat Major" by Gustav Mahler) This is Mahler. It looks like Bob Dylan, but it's Mahler. That was Bob's last record, yeah.
好了 这是卡内基音乐厅 这类的建筑显然已经流行起来 音乐厅规模更大。卡内基音乐厅的大小和集市差不多 比一些交响乐厅还大 那里的混响比 斯卡拉剧院的更大 与此同时 根据Alex Ross给《纽约客》所写的文章可以看出 这样的规则孕育而生: 观众必须保持安静 在演出的过程中,不能再吃吃喝喝 向舞台上大喊大叫 或者和别人交头接耳 他们必须非常安静 结合这两件事来看 有一种不同类型的音乐 在这样的音乐厅中效果最好 它可以气势磅礴 这是之前某些 种类的音乐所不具有的 安静的部分也听得到 虽然很容易被 悄悄话和叫喊声淹没 但由于混响的关系 在卡内基音乐厅之类的地方 音乐的节奏得稍微降低 质地却稍微提高 (音乐:“降E大调第八交响曲” 古斯塔夫·马勒) 这是马勒 虽然看上去像鲍勃·迪伦,但这确实是马勒 哈,这是鲍勃的最后一张唱片
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Popular music, coming along at the same time. This is a jazz band. According to Scott Joplin, the bands were playing on riverboats and clubs. Again, it's noisy. They're playing for dancers. There's certain sections of the song -- the songs had different sections that the dancers really liked. And they'd say, "Play that part again." Well, there's only so many times you can play the same section of a song over and over again for the dancers. So the bands started to improvise new melodies. And a new form of music was born. (Music: "Royal Garden Blues" by W.C. Handy / Ethel Waters) These are played mainly in small rooms. People are dancing, shouting and drinking. So the music has to be loud enough to be heard above that. Same thing goes true for -- that's the beginning of the century -- for the whole of 20th-century popular music, whether it's rock or Latin music or whatever. [Live music] doesn't really change that much.
流行音乐同时也诞生了 这是一支爵士乐队 据斯科特·乔普林所说,这支乐队曾经 在游船和夜总会中表演过 这一次的环境又很嘈杂。他们为跳舞的人伴奏 有些段落舞者特别喜欢 ——一首歌中有好几个段落 他们会说:“把那部分再演奏一次。” 有很多时候 为了满足舞者,你会一次又一次地演奏同一个段落 因此,乐队开始即兴创作新的曲子 一种音乐的新类型诞生了 (音乐:"皇家花园蓝调" W.C. Handy / Ethel Waters) 爵士乐主要在空间较小的室内演奏 人们跳舞、叫喊、畅饮 所以,音乐的声音必须够大 盖过别的声音 有些事情成真了。——那是在这个世纪之初 对整个20世纪的流行音乐来说 无论是摇滚还是拉丁音乐 对音乐的改变都不是很大
It changes about a third of the way into the 20th century, when this became one of the primary venues for music. And this was one way that the music got there. Microphones enabled singers, in particular, and musicians and composers, to completely change the kind of music that they were writing. So far, a lot of the stuff that was on the radio was live music, but singers, like Frank Sinatra, could use the mic and do things that they could never do without a microphone. Other singers after him went even further. (Music: "My Funny Valentine" by Chet Baker) This is Chet Baker. And this kind of thing would have been impossible without a microphone. It would have been impossible without recorded music as well. And he's singing right into your ear. He's whispering into your ears. The effect is just electric. It's like the guy is sitting next to you, whispering who knows what into your ear.
但当它成为音乐的主要媒介之一后 在20世纪的前30年间 流行音乐就发生了很大改变 而这是音乐传播到那里的 方法之一 麦克风完全改变了 音乐家、作曲家 特别是歌手 创作的作品 迄今为止,收音机上大多播放的都是现场演奏 但有些歌手,比如法兰克·辛纳屈(Frank Sinatra) 可以用麦克风 制造一些 不用麦克风根本无法达到的效果 在他之后,更有一些歌手 把这种做法发扬光大 (音乐:"My Funny Valentine" Chet Baker) 这是Chet Baker(著名爵士乐手) 这种效果 没有麦克风绝对做不出来 如果没有录成唱片,那也无法达到 他就在你的耳畔歌唱 在你的耳畔低语 这种效果就像过了电一样 仿佛歌手就坐在你的身边 和你说着什么东西
So at this point, music diverged. There's live music, and there's recorded music. And they no longer have to be exactly the same. Now there's venues like this, a discotheque, and there's jukeboxes in bars, where you don't even need to have a band. There doesn't need to be any live performing musicians whatsoever, and the sound systems are good. People began to make music specifically for discos and for those sound systems. And, as with jazz, the dancers liked certain sections more than they did others. So the early hip-hop guys would loop certain sections. (Music: "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang) The MC would improvise lyrics in the same way that the jazz players would improvise melodies. And another new form of music was born.
从那个时候起,音乐开始分化 既有现场音乐 也有唱片音乐 它们不再完全相同 现在还有迪斯科舞厅这样的地方 在酒吧里也有自动点唱机 这些地方就不需要乐队了 不需要那些 现场乐队之类的角色 那里的音响不错 人们开始专门为迪斯科 和这些音响 创作音乐 此外,和爵士一样 跳舞的人会特别喜欢 其中一些片段 所以早期的嘻哈歌手会来回重复某些段落 (音乐:"Rapper's Delight" The Sugarhill Gang) 歌手会即兴创作歌词 就像爵士演奏者会即兴创作曲子一样 此外,还诞生了新的音乐模式
Live performance, when it was incredibly successful, ended up in what is probably, acoustically, the worst sounding venues on the planet: sports stadiums, basketball arenas and hockey arenas. Musicians who ended up there did the best they could. They wrote what is now called arena rock, which is medium-speed ballads. (Music: "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" by U2) They did the best they could given that this is what they're writing for. The tempos are medium. It sounds big. It's more a social situation than a musical situation. And in some ways, the music that they're writing for this place works perfectly.
现场演出,它取得了空前的成功 而它诞生的场所从音响效果上来看 这恐怕是世界上最不适合听音乐的地方了 体育场 篮球场,还有冰球场 音乐家们尽了最大努力 他们创作了“舞台摇滚”(arena rock) 听起来像是中速的谣曲 (音乐:"I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" U2) 他们已经尽了全力 写出了这样的歌曲 节拍不快不慢,听起来很浑厚 比起音乐场所 那里更像是一个社交场所 在某些方面 他们为那里创作的音乐 非常契合
So there's more new venues. One of the new ones is the automobile. I grew up with a radio in a car. But now that's evolved into something else. The car is a whole venue. (Music: "Who U Wit" by Lil' Jon & the East Side Boyz) The music that, I would say, is written for automobile sound systems works perfectly on it. It might not be what you want to listen to at home, but it works great in the car -- has a huge frequency spectrum, you know, big bass and high-end and the voice kind of stuck in the middle. Automobile music, you can share with your friends.
那么,还有更多新的环境 其中一个是汽车 我是在汽车中的收音机边长大的 但如今它进化了 整辆汽车变成了一个环境 (音乐:"Who U Wit" Lil' Jon & the East Side Boyz) 这种音乐,让我说,是写给 汽车音响系统的 完美地匹配了这个环境 这也许不是你想在家里听的音乐 但在车子里听起来却很棒—— 频谱很宽 重低音,发烧天碟,你懂的 人声一般集中在中频 我们可以和朋友一起享受汽车音乐
There's one other kind of new venue, the private MP3 player. Presumably, this is just for Christian music. (Laughter) And in some ways it's like Carnegie Hall, or when the audience had to hush up, because you can now hear every single detail. In other ways, it's more like the West African music because if the music in an MP3 player gets too quiet, you turn it up, and the next minute, your ears are blasted out by a louder passage. So that doesn't really work. I think pop music, mainly, it's written today, to some extent, is written for these kind of players, for this kind of personal experience where you can hear extreme detail, but the dynamic doesn't change that much.
还有另一种新的环境 私人MP3播放器 这一个大概只用来听基督教音乐吧 (笑声) 在某个方面,这和卡内基音乐厅有点像 听音乐的人必须安静 因为你能听到所有的细节 在别的方面,它又更像西非音乐 因为如果MP3播放器里的音乐太过于安静 你把音量调高了,而下一秒钟 你的耳朵会被另一段嘈杂的音乐震聋 所以这并不很好用 我想,当前创作的 大多数流行音乐 可以说是写给这类播放器 这种个人体验的 你能听出细枝末节 又不怎么改变音乐的本质
So I asked myself: Okay, is this a model for creation, this adaptation that we do? And does it happen anywhere else? Well, according to David Attenborough and some other people, birds do it too -- that the birds in the canopy, where the foliage is dense, their calls tend to be high-pitched, short and repetitive. And the birds on the floor tend to have lower pitched calls, so that they don't get distorted when they bounce off the forest floor. And birds like this Savannah sparrow, they tend to have a buzzing (Sound clip: Savannah sparrow song) type call. And it turns out that a sound like this is the most energy efficient and practical way to transmit their call across the fields and savannahs. Other birds, like this tanager, have adapted within the same species. The tananger on the East Coast of the United States, where the forests are a little denser, has one kind of call, and the tananger on the other side, on the west (Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song) has a different kind of call. (Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song) So birds do it too.
我自问 好了,这是不是 一种创作的模式呢? 我们是不是在适应环境呢? 这又是不是放之四海而皆准呢? 根据大卫·爱登堡(David Attenborough,著名生物纪录片主持人)和其他人所说 鸟儿们也是这么做的 树冠上的鸟 在树枝浓密的地方 它们的叫声通常 调子更高,急促,反复 而地面上的鸟 叫声通常调子更低 这样当它们在森林的地面上蹦蹦跳跳时 声音也不会被扰乱 像这只草原雀(Savannah sparrow) 它们的叫声更接近嘤嘤作响 (声音片段:草原雀之歌) 的类型 事实证明 这样的声音 能最有效、实用地利用体内能量 传播它们的叫声 穿越田野和草原 其他的鸟,像这只唐纳雀(tananger) 是同一鸟种中适应环境后的种类 唐纳雀生活在美国东海岸 那里的森林更茂盛一些 它们的叫声是这样的 而这一只唐纳雀则生活在对面,西边 (声音片段:猩红唐纳雀之歌) 它有着另一种叫声 (声音片段:猩红唐纳雀之歌) 因此,鸟儿也一样这么做
And I thought: Well, if this is a model for creation, if we make music, primarily the form at least, to fit these contexts, and if we make art to fit gallery walls or museum walls, and if we write software to fit existing operating systems, is that how it works? Yeah. I think it's evolutionary. It's adaptive. But the pleasure and the passion and the joy is still there. This is a reverse view of things from the kind of traditional Romantic view. The Romantic view is that first comes the passion and then the outpouring of emotion, and then somehow it gets shaped into something. And I'm saying, well, the passion's still there, but the vessel that it's going to be injected into and poured into, that is instinctively and intuitively created first. We already know where that passion is going. But this conflict of views is kind of interesting.
然后我想 好吧,如果这是一种创作模式 如果我们创作音乐时 主要得符合情境 至少在形式上如此 如果我们根据画廊或者博物馆的墙壁来绘制作品 如果我们根据现有的操作系统来编写软件 这就是事情进行的方式吗? 对,我想这是一种进化 一种适应能力 但乐趣、激情和愉悦 仍然存在 这是和传统的浪漫情怀 正好相反的观点 在浪漫的观点看来 首先有激情 然后才有洋溢的感情 接着,它再被塑造成不同的东西 我要说 的确,激情不可或缺 但容器 那即将被填满、充实的容器 在最初就根据直觉 已经创造出来了 我们之前就知道激情会走向何方 然而,这两个观点冲突的地方有一点挺有趣
The writer, Thomas Frank, says that this might be a kind of explanation why some voters vote against their best interests, that voters, like a lot of us, assume, that if they hear something that sounds like it's sincere, that it's coming from the gut, that it's passionate, that it's more authentic. And they'll vote for that. So that, if somebody can fake sincerity, if they can fake passion, they stand a better chance of being selected in that way, which seems a little dangerous. I'm saying the two, the passion, the joy, are not mutually exclusive.
一名作家 托马斯·弗兰克 曾说 也许有一种解释可以说明 为什么有些选民 给自己利益的对立面投了一票 这些选民和我们的大多数人一样 假设,如果他们觉得某一方听起来很真诚 发自内心,激情洋溢 那一方就是更可靠的 他们会投上一票 所以,如果有人假装真诚 假装富有激情 靠着这种方法,当然有一点风险 但他们就有更大的机会 被选上 我要说,激情和快乐 并不是势不两立的
Maybe what the world needs now is for us to realize that we are like the birds. We adapt. We sing. And like the birds, the joy is still there, even though we have changed what we do to fit the context.
或许,世界现在需要我们认识到 我们就像鸟儿 我们适应环境 我们歌唱 也和鸟儿一样,快乐仍在 即使我们改变了做法 为了适应环境
Thank you very much.
非常感谢
(Applause)
(掌声)