So, I've known a lot of fish in my life. I've loved only two. That first one, it was more like a passionate affair. It was a beautiful fish: flavorful, textured, meaty, a bestseller on the menu. What a fish. (Laughter) Even better, it was farm-raised to the supposed highest standards of sustainability. So you could feel good about selling it.
我一生中接觸過很多魚, 只有兩種是我的最愛。 第一種, 是一種熱烈的情感, 那條美麗的魚, 美味、紋理、肉質都是一等, 是菜單上最暢銷的菜, 多麼棒的魚呀! (笑聲) 更好的是, 它是由人工養殖場,所培育出可持續提供的 最高標準的魚, 賣牠的人也會感到安心。
I was in a relationship with this beauty for several months. One day, the head of the company called and asked if I'd speak at an event about the farm's sustainability. "Absolutely," I said. Here was a company trying to solve what's become this unimaginable problem for us chefs: How do we keep fish on our menus?
我曾經沉醉於這美麗的關係中, 大概維持了幾個月。 有一天,這個公司的高層打電話給我, 希望我能針對這個養殖場持續提供漁源, 發表一場演說。 我說:「當然可以。」 這個公司正是要試圖解決一個 對我們廚師來說,無法想像的問題: 如何持續供應魚類餐點?
For the past 50 years, we've been fishing the seas like we clear-cut forests. It's hard to overstate the destruction. Ninety percent of large fish, the ones we love -- the tunas, the halibuts, the salmons, swordfish -- they've collapsed. There's almost nothing left. So, for better or for worse, aquaculture, fish farming, is going to be a part of our future. A lot of arguments against it: Fish farms pollute -- most of them do anyway -- and they're inefficient. Take tuna, a major drawback. It's got a feed conversion ratio of 15 to one. That means it takes fifteen pounds of wild fish to get you one pound of farm tuna. Not very sustainable. It doesn't taste very good either.
在過去的50年中, 我們從各個海洋中捕魚, 就像是砍伐樹木, 我絕不是誇大它的破壞性。 但我們喜愛的大型魚類裡,有90%的 鮪魚,大比目魚,鮭魚,劍魚等, 他們的生態遭受重創, 幾乎沒有剩下多少了。 所以,不管是好是壞, 水產養殖業、人工漁場,都會成為我們未來的一部分。 有很多針對這個行業的爭論, 因為大部分養殖漁場都會污染環境, 而且效率很低。以鮪魚為例, 最主要的弊病是, 養殖鮪魚的飼料轉換率 是15比1, 意思是,你要用15磅的野生魚類當飼料, 才能養出1磅的養殖鮪魚。 漁場不容易經營, 魚也不好吃。
So here, finally, was a company trying to do it right. I wanted to support them. The day before the event, I called the head of P.R. for the company. Let's call him Don.
最後, 終於有一家公司想好好做事了, 我也想支持他們。 就在那次活動的前一天, 我聯繫了公司的公關部門負責人, 就讓我們暫且稱呼他為“唐”吧...
"Don," I said, "just to get the facts straight, you guys are famous for farming so far out to sea, you don't pollute."
我說:“唐閣下,是這樣的,你們的人工養殖漁場 最有名之處就是設置在遠洋,而且不會產生污染。"
"That's right," he said. "We're so far out, the waste from our fish gets distributed, not concentrated." And then he added, "We're basically a world unto ourselves. That feed conversion ratio? 2.5 to one," he said. "Best in the business."
他回應:“你說的對。我們作業的地點很遠, 我們漁場所產生的污染物都被稀釋掉了, 不會集中殘留在一個地方。" 然後他補充, “那是我們自己的漁場, 飼料轉換率?2.5比1,” 他說。 “業界中最好的。”
2.5 to one, great. "2.5 what? What are you feeding?"
2.5比 1,很好 “2.5比什麼呢?你們餵什麼?”
"Sustainable proteins," he said.
他回答道: “可持續性蛋白質。”
"Great," I said. Got off the phone. And that night, I was lying in bed, and I thought: What the hell is a sustainable protein? (Laughter)
“很好。”然後我們掛了電話。 結果那晚, 我躺在床上想: 可持續性蛋白質是什麼鬼東西呀? (笑聲)
So the next day, just before the event, I called Don. I said, "Don, what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"
所以第二天,就在那個活動之前,我打電話給唐, 我問道:"唐閣下,可持續性蛋白質大概是什麼東西啊?"
He said he didn't know. He would ask around. Well, I got on the phone with a few people in the company; no one could give me a straight answer until finally, I got on the phone with the head biologist. Let's call him Don too. (Laughter)
他說他不知道,他會去問問周圍的人。 然後,我和這個公司裡的一些人通了電話, 但是沒有人能給我一個明確的答案。 直到最後, 我和他們的首席生物學家 通上了電話。 讓我也暫且叫他“唐"... (笑聲)
"Don," I said, "what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"
我說:"唐," 你能否舉例說明一下,可持續性蛋白質是些什麼東西嗎?"
Well, he mentioned some algaes and some fish meals, and then he said chicken pellets. I said, "Chicken pellets?"
然後,他提到一些藻類, 還有一些魚肉, 然後他提到雞肉丸, 我說:“雞肉丸?“
He said, "Yeah, feathers, skin, bone meal, scraps, dried and processed into feed."
他說:「是的,羽毛、雞皮、 骨頭、剩料等, 被曬乾加工後做成飼料。”
I said, "What percentage of your feed is chicken?" Thinking, you know, two percent.
我說:“雞在你們的飼料中 所占的比例是多少?” 你知道,我心裡想大概是2%吧。
"Well, it's about 30 percent," he said.
結果他說:“嗯,大概佔30%,”
I said, "Don, what's sustainable about feeding chicken to fish?" (Laughter)
我說,“唐閣下,用雞餵魚, 這算什麼可持續性?” (笑聲)
There was a long pause on the line, and he said, "There's just too much chicken in the world." (Laughter)
電話的那邊安靜了很長時間, 然後他說,“世界上的雞真的太多了。” (笑聲)
I fell out of love with this fish. (Laughter) No, not because I'm some self-righteous, goody-two shoes foodie. I actually am. (Laughter) No, I actually fell out of love with this fish because, I swear to God, after that conversation, the fish tasted like chicken. (Laughter)
於是,我不再愛這魚了。 (笑聲) 不,不是因為我是個自以為正直的 偽善美食家, 其實我是這樣的人沒錯。 (笑聲) 不,我不再愛這個魚了,是因為,我向上帝發誓, 在那次對話之後,那個魚嚐起來有雞的味道。 (笑聲)
This second fish, it's a different kind of love story. It's the romantic kind, the kind where the more you get to know your fish, you love the fish. I first ate it at a restaurant in southern Spain. A journalist friend had been talking about this fish for a long time. She kind of set us up. (Laughter) It came to the table a bright, almost shimmering, white color. The chef had overcooked it. Like twice over. Amazingly, it was still delicious.
這第二條魚, 它是另一種不同的愛情故事, 是很浪漫的那種, 你愈了解那種魚, 你就會愈愛牠。 我第一次是在西班牙南部的一個餐廳, 吃到這種魚。 有一個記者朋友已經和我提到這種魚很多次了, 她可以說是媒人。 (笑聲) 一條白色、 鮮亮透光的魚被端上桌來, 廚師煮得太熟了, 熟過頭二倍之多, 但神奇的是,它還是很好吃。
Who can make a fish taste good after it's been overcooked? I can't, but this guy can. Let's call him Miguel -- actually his name is Miguel. (Laughter) And no, he didn't cook the fish, and he's not a chef, at least in the way that you and I understand it. He's a biologist at Veta La Palma. It's a fish farm in the southwestern corner of Spain. It's at the tip of the Guadalquivir river.
誰可以做出這樣好吃的魚, 而且還是煮過頭的魚? 我不能, 但這位廚師可以。 讓我們叫他米格爾, 其實他的名字就是米格爾。 (笑聲) 但是,他不是煮魚的人,他也不是個廚師, 至少他不是你我認知的那種廚師, 他是在薇塔拉帕爾馬的 一個生物學家。 薇塔拉帕爾馬是位於西班牙西南角的養殖漁場, 就在高達爾克維爾河的末端。
Until the 1980s, the farm was in the hands of the Argentinians. They raised beef cattle on what was essentially wetlands. They did it by draining the land. They built this intricate series of canals, and they pushed water off the land and out into the river. Well, they couldn't make it work, not economically. And ecologically, it was a disaster. It killed like 90 percent of the birds, which, for this place, is a lot of birds. And so in 1982, a Spanish company with an environmental conscience purchased the land.
直到1980年代, 這個漁場還是由阿根廷人管轄, 他們在這裡養牛, 因為這裡原本是濕地。 當時他們把水抽走, 然後建造了錯綜複雜的運河, 他們接著把這裡的水排入河流。 但是,他們沒有成功, 我是指經濟方面; 在環境方面,則造成了巨大的災難, 差不多90%的鳥類都消失了, 原本這裡的鳥類是很多的。 到了1982年, 一家具有環保意識的的西班牙公司, 購買了這塊地。
What did they do? They reversed the flow of water. They literally flipped the switch. Instead of pushing water out, they used the channels to pull water back in. They flooded the canals. They created a 27,000-acre fish farm -- bass, mullet, shrimp, eel -- and in the process, Miguel and this company completely reversed the ecological destruction. The farm's incredible. I mean, you've never seen anything like this. You stare out at a horizon that is a million miles away, and all you see are flooded canals and this thick, rich marshland.
他們做了什麼? 他們逆轉了水流的方向, 翻轉了開關, 把原本設計要排水的渠道, 反過來把水引進來, 用水填滿了這些運河, 然後建立了一個2萬7千英畝的漁場, 裡頭有鱸魚、梭魚、 蝦、鰻魚等。 在這個過程中,米格爾和這個公司 挽救了這次生態災難。 這個漁場真的很棒! 我的意思是說,你從沒見過類似這樣的地方, 當你凝視著一萬英哩之外 廣闊的地平線, 你眼前盡是充滿水的運河, 還有富饒的沼澤溼地。
I was there not long ago with Miguel. He's an amazing guy, like three parts Charles Darwin and one part Crocodile Dundee. (Laughter) Okay? There we are slogging through the wetlands, and I'm panting and sweating, got mud up to my knees, and Miguel's calmly conducting a biology lecture. Here, he's pointing out a rare Black-shouldered Kite. Now, he's mentioning the mineral needs of phytoplankton. And here, here he sees a grouping pattern that reminds him of the Tanzanian Giraffe.
不久前,我和米格爾去過那兒, 他是個了不起的人, ¾是達爾文,¼是鱷魚先生鄧迪。 (笑聲) 我們步履艱難地進入了濕地, 我是氣喘吁吁加汗流浹背,淤泥淹到了我的膝蓋, 米格爾則是平心靜氣地對我說著他的生物學。 他一下指著一隻罕見的黑肩鳶, 一下又提到可以滿足礦物質需求的浮游植物, 接著他又看到一組圖案, 讓他聯想起坦桑尼亞的長頸鹿。
It turns out, Miguel spent the better part of his career in the Mikumi National Park in Africa. I asked him how he became such an expert on fish.
原來,米格爾曾經花了很長時間, 在非洲的米庫米國家公園工作。 我問他是怎麼成為 一位魚類專家的,
He said, "Fish? I didn't know anything about fish. I'm an expert in relationships." And then he's off, launching into more talk about rare birds and algaes and strange aquatic plants.
他說: “魚?我不了解牠們, 我只是一個生態關係專家。” 然後他談起了更多 關於稀有鳥類和藻類, 還有特殊的水生植物。
And don't get me wrong, that was really fascinating, you know, the biotic community unplugged, kind of thing. It's great, but I was in love. And my head was swooning over that overcooked piece of delicious fish I had the night before. So I interrupted him. I said, "Miguel, what makes your fish taste so good?"
請不要誤解,那樣的談話真的很吸引人, 他說的生態社群這一類的事情, 都很好, 但是我心另有所屬, 我腦中始終惦記著那條 我前一晚品嚐過,被煮過頭的美味的魚。 所以我打斷他,我說: "米格爾,你的魚為什麼那麼好吃?"
He pointed at the algae.
他指向藻類,
"I know, dude, the algae, the phytoplankton, the relationships: It's amazing. But what are your fish eating? What's the feed conversion ratio?"
“我知道, 兄弟,藻類、浮游植物、 生態關係,這些都很神奇, 但是你餵魚吃什麼? 飼料轉換率是多少?”
Well, he goes on to tell me it's such a rich system that the fish are eating what they'd be eating in the wild. The plant biomass, the phytoplankton, the zooplankton, it's what feeds the fish. The system is so healthy, it's totally self-renewing. There is no feed. Ever heard of a farm that doesn't feed its animals?
然後,他繼續告訴我, 這是一個很富饒的系統, 這些魚吃的就是它們在野外吃的東西 植物、浮游植物、 浮游生物等,都是魚的飼料。 這個系統非常健康, 會進行自我更新, 不需要任何飼料。 有聽說過哪一個農場不需要餵動物飼料的嗎?
Later that day, I was driving around this property with Miguel, and I asked him, I said, "For a place that seems so natural, unlike like any farm I'd ever been at, how do you measure success?"
那天稍晚時,我和米格爾開著車在附近兜風, 我問他,“像這樣一個自然的地方, 不像其它任何一個我曾經見過的農場, 你如何衡量成功?"
At that moment, it was as if a film director called for a set change. And we rounded the corner and saw the most amazing sight: thousands and thousands of pink flamingos, a literal pink carpet for as far as you could see.
就在那時, 彷彿有一位電影導演突然要求改變場景, 我們轉過彎, 看到最美的畫面, 成千上萬的粉紅色火鶴, 就像一張粉紅色的地毯舖向遙遠的盡頭。
"That's success," he said. "Look at their bellies, pink. They're feasting." Feasting? I was totally confused.
他說,“那就是成功。 看看他們的腹部,粉紅色的, 他們正在享受盛宴。“ 盛宴?我不知道他在說什麼。
I said, "Miguel, aren't they feasting on your fish?" (Laughter)
我說,“米格爾,他們的盛宴不正是你的魚嗎?” (笑聲)
"Yes," he said. (Laughter) "We lose 20 percent of our fish and fish eggs to birds. Well, last year, this property had 600,000 birds on it, more than 250 different species. It's become, today, the largest and one of the most important private bird sanctuaries in all of Europe."
“正是," 他說, (笑聲) “鳥類會吃掉我們20%的魚, 還有魚卵, 而且,去年這個漁場裡 有60萬隻鳥, 有超過250種不同的種類。 今天,這裡已經成為全歐洲 最大且最重要的 私人鳥類自然保護區之一。"
I said, "Miguel, isn't a thriving bird population like the last thing you want on a fish farm?" (Laughter) He shook his head, no.
我說,“米格爾,在養殖漁場裡, 不是最不想見到這麼多鳥嗎?” (笑聲) “不“,他搖搖頭,
He said, "We farm extensively, not intensively. This is an ecological network. The flamingos eat the shrimp. The shrimp eat the phytoplankton. So the pinker the belly, the better the system."
他說,“我們養殖很多生物, 不是集中養殖某一種。 這是一個生態網絡, 這些火鶴吃掉蝦子, 蝦子吃浮游動物; 所以他們的腹部愈粉紅, 就代表這個生態越好。"
Okay, so let's review: a farm that doesn't feed its animals, and a farm that measures its success on the health of its predators. A fish farm, but also a bird sanctuary. Oh, and by the way, those flamingos, they shouldn't even be there in the first place. They brood in a town 150 miles away, where the soil conditions are better for building nests. Every morning, they fly 150 miles into the farm. And every evening, they fly 150 miles back. (Laughter) They do that because they're able to follow the broken white line of highway A92. (Laughter) No kidding.
好的,讓我們重新審視一下, 這個農場不需要餵食動物, 它衡量成功的方式 是根據它的掠食者的健康狀態。 一個漁場,同時也是個鳥類庇護所, 喔,而且那些火鶴, 他們原先就不應該出現在那裡, 牠們的窩巢是在 240公里外的地方, 那裡的土壤狀況 較適合築巢, 他們每天早上 都要飛行240公里來到這個漁場, 到了晚上,再飛行240公里回家。 (笑聲) 因為他們這樣才能 順著A92號 高速公路的白線飛... (笑聲) 這不是開玩笑。
I was imagining a "March of the Penguins" thing, so I looked at Miguel. I said, "Miguel, do they fly 150 miles to the farm, and then do they fly 150 miles back at night? Do they do that for the children?"
我一直在腦海中想像類似企鵝行進的事, 我看著米格爾, 我說,“米格爾,它們飛行240公里 來到漁場, 然後它們晚上 再飛240公里回去嗎? 它們這麼做是為了孩子嗎?"
He looked at me like I had just quoted a Whitney Houston song. (Laughter) He said, "No; they do it because the food's better." (Laughter)
他看著我就像是我剛剛引用了惠特尼休斯頓的歌, (笑聲) 他說,“不,他們這麼做是因為這裡的食物更好。” (笑聲)
I didn't mention the skin of my beloved fish, which was delicious -- and I don't like fish skin; I don't like it seared, I don't like it crispy. It's that acrid, tar-like flavor. I almost never cook with it. Yet, when I tasted it at that restaurant in southern Spain, it tasted not at all like fish skin. It tasted sweet and clean, like you were taking a bite of the ocean. I mentioned that to Miguel, and he nodded. He said, "The skin acts like a sponge. It's the last defense before anything enters the body. It evolved to soak up impurities." And then he added, "But our water has no impurities."
我還沒有提到我最愛的魚的皮吧? 真的是很美味,但我以前不喜歡魚皮, 我不喜歡烤的,也不喜歡脆的, 魚皮有腥味,像柏油的味道, 我從不把它和魚一起烹煮。 但是,當我在西班牙南部的那個餐館嚐到它的時候, 嚐起來一點都不像是魚皮, 它嚐起來微甜而且乾淨, 就像你嚐了一口海洋自然的味道一樣。 我向米格爾提到我的想法,他點點頭, 他說,“魚皮的作用就像是海綿, 它是阻止物質進入到體內的最後的防線, 它的作用是吸收雜質," 他繼續說, “但是我們的水沒有雜質。”
OK. A farm that doesn't feed its fish, a farm that measures its success by the success of its predators. And then I realized when he says, "A farm that has no impurities," he made a big understatement, because the water that flows through that farm comes in from the Guadalquivir River. It's a river that carries with it all the things that rivers tend to carry these days: chemical contaminants, pesticide runoff. And when it works its way through the system and leaves, the water is cleaner than when it entered. The system is so healthy, it purifies the water. So, not just a farm that doesn't feed its animals, not just a farm that measures its success by the health of its predators, but a farm that's literally a water purification plant -- and not just for those fish, but for you and me as well. Because when that water leaves, it dumps out into the Atlantic. A drop in the ocean, I know, but I'll take it, and so should you, because this love story, however romantic, is also instructive. You might say it's a recipe for the future of good food, whether we're talking about bass or beef cattle.
好的。這個漁場不需要餵養它的魚, 它衡量成功的方式, 是看它的掠食者是否成功生存。 然後我發現,當他說 這個漁場沒有雜質時, 他說得其實太保守了, 因為在漁場中流過的水, 是來自高達爾克維爾河, 那條河中含有 現在所有的河流都有的成份, 像是化學污染物及 農藥等, 當河水進入這個系統, 之後再離開時, 水質會變得比來時更乾淨。 這個系統很健康,它可以過濾水, 所以,這個漁場不只是不餵食動物, 也不只是根據掠食者的健康狀況 來衡量它的成功, 它還是一個污水淨化廠, 不只是為那些魚淨化水質, 更是為了你和我。 因為當水離開這裡時,它會流入大西洋, 雖然我知道那是滄海一粟, 但是我很重視它,而且你們也應該重視, 因為這個愛的故事, 不但浪漫, 而且有教育意義。 你也許會說它是 未來美食的食譜, 不管我們是在說鱸魚還是牛肉,
What we need now is a radically new conception of agriculture, one in which the food actually tastes good. (Laughter) (Applause) But for a lot people, that's a bit too radical. We're not realists, us foodies; we're lovers. We love farmers' markets, we love small family farms, we talk about local food, we eat organic. And when you suggest these are the things that will ensure the future of good food, someone, somewhere stands up and says, "Hey guy, I love pink flamingos, but how are you going to feed the world?" How are you going to feed the world?
我們現在需要的是, 一個全新的農業概念, 能夠培養出真正美食的農業概念。 (笑聲) (掌聲) 但是對很多人來說, 這有點激進。 我們美食家不是現實主義者, 我們是美食愛好者。 我們愛農夫們自己籌組的市場, 我們愛小型的家庭農場, 我們談論本地的食物, 我們吃有機食品。 而當你提到這樣做 才能保證未來有美好的食物時, 某個地方的某人就會站起來說, "嘿,我愛粉紅色的火鶴, 但是你打算怎麼填飽世人的肚子?" 怎麼填飽世人的肚子?
Can I be honest? I don't love that question. No, not because we already produce enough calories to more than feed the world. One billion people will go hungry today. One billion -- that's more than ever before -- because of gross inequalities in distribution, not tonnage. Now, I don't love this question because it's determined the logic of our food system for the last 50 years.
我可以坦白的說嗎? 我不喜歡你的問題, 不,不是因為我們已經生產了 遠遠超出我們這個世界需要的卡路里, 而今天仍有十億人在餓著肚子。 十億--史上最多的人數, 根本原因在於總體上的分配不平衡, 不是數量多寡的問題。 我不喜歡這個問題,是因為他假定了一個 存在於過去五十年的食物系統的邏輯,
Feed grain to herbivores, pesticides to monocultures, chemicals to soil, chicken to fish, and all along agribusiness has simply asked, "If we're feeding more people more cheaply, how terrible could that be?" That's been the motivation, it's been the justification: it's been the business plan of American agriculture. We should call it what it is: a business in liquidation, a business that's quickly eroding ecological capital that makes that very production possible. That's not a business, and it isn't agriculture.
就是把穀物餵給食草動物, 在單一品種作物上施打農藥,在土壤上灑化學藥劑, 拿鷄餵魚... 然後各類農業開發企業 就會問: “如果我們用更便宜的方法養活更多的人, 有什麼不對的呢?” 這就是動機, 也是合理的藉口, 這已經成了美國農業的 營運計畫。 我們應該為它正名, 這是快要倒閉的生意, 這種生意快速地侵蝕了我們的 生態資本,只為了大量生產。 那不是生意, 也不是農業。
Our breadbasket is threatened today, not because of diminishing supply, but because of diminishing resources. Not by the latest combine and tractor invention, but by fertile land; not by pumps, but by fresh water; not by chainsaws, but by forests; and not by fishing boats and nets, but by fish in the sea.
今日我們的存糧正受到嚴重威脅, 不是因為供給的遞減, 而是因為資源的遞減。 存糧的增加不能只靠最新發明的收割機與拖拉機, 而是要有肥沃的土壤; 不能只靠幫浦,而是要有新鮮的水源; 不能只靠電鋸,而是要有森林; 不能只靠漁船和漁網,而是要有魚在海裡游。
Want to feed the world? Let's start by asking: How are we going to feed ourselves? Or better: How can we create conditions that enable every community to feed itself? (Applause) To do that, don't look at the agribusiness model for the future. It's really old, and it's tired. It's high on capital, chemistry and machines, and it's never produced anything really good to eat. Instead, let's look to the ecological model. That's the one that relies on two billion years of on-the-job experience.
怎麼填飽世人的肚子? 我們該先問:怎麼填飽自己的肚子? 或者更進一步問,怎麼建立一種環境, 可以讓每一個物種 養活自己? (掌聲) 要做到那樣, 就不要指望未來還沿用現在的農業模型, 它已經過時了,而且很疲乏了, 它過度依賴資金、化學和機械, 而且它生產不出來真正好的食物。 相反的,讓我們看看生態系統, 這個系統已經實地演練過 20億年了。
Look to Miguel, farmers like Miguel. Farms that aren't worlds unto themselves; farms that restore instead of deplete; farms that farm extensively instead of just intensively; farmers that are not just producers, but experts in relationships. Because they're the ones that are experts in flavor, too. And if I'm going to be really honest, they're a better chef than I'll ever be. You know, I'm okay with that, because if that's the future of good food, it's going to be delicious.
看看米格爾, 像米格爾這樣的農民, 他們的農場不是只屬於自己, 他們能自我恢復,而不單只是消耗資源而已; 他們養殖很多物種, 而不是集中養殖單一物種; 農民不再只是生產者, 而是生態關係專家, 因為他們同時也是 美味的專家。 如果要我說實話, 他們是比我更好的廚師。 我可以接受他們比我優秀, 因為如果未來的優質食物是如此,那肯定是非常美味的。
Thank you. (Applause)
謝謝大家。 (掌聲)