I'm going to go off script and make Chris quite nervous here by making this audience participation. All right. Are you with me? Yeah. Yeah. All right.
我會脫稿演說, 克里斯肯定緊張。 但我想讓觀眾參與。 好的,你們有跟上我嗎? 有嗎?有嗎? 好的。
So what I'd like to do is have you raise your hand if you've ever heard a heterosexual couple having sex. Could be the neighbors, hotel room, your parents. Sorry. Okay. Pretty much everybody. Now raise your hand if the man was making more noise than the woman. I see one guy there. It doesn't count if it was you, sir. (Laughter) So his hand's down. And one woman. Okay. Sitting next to a loud guy.
我想要你們舉手, 如果你們曾經聽過一對異性伴侶做愛, 可能是鄰居,在飯店 你的父母,抱歉。 好的,幾乎每個人都有聽過 現在舉起你的手, 如果男人比女人發出更多的聲音? 我看到有一個男生舉手。 如果是你自己的話,就不算。 (笑聲) 那位先生的手放下了,有一位女士舉手, 她坐在一位很吵的先生旁邊。
Now what does this tell us? It tells us that human beings make noise when they have sex, and it's generally the woman who makes more noise. This is known as female copulatory vocalization to the clipboard crowd. I wasn't even going to mention this, but somebody told me that Meg Ryan might be here, and she is the world's most famous female copulatory vocalizer. So I thought, got to talk about that. We'll get back to that a little bit later.
這個告訴我們什麼? 它告訴我們人類, 在做愛時發出聲音, 女生一般比男生發出更多聲音。 這就是女性的交配發聲。 對科學家來說, 我本來沒有要提到這個, 但是有人告訴我梅格萊恩或許會在這裡, 她是世界上最知名的 女性交配發聲器。 所以我後來想,應該要提到這個 我們稍後會再回到這個話題。
Let me start by saying human beings are not descended from apes, despite what you may have heard. We are apes. We are more closely related to the chimp and the bonobo than the African elephant is to the Indian elephant, as Jared Diamond pointed out in one of his early books. We're more closely related to chimps and bonobos than chimps and bonobos are related to any other primate -- gorillas, orangutans, what have you. So we're extremely closely related to them, and as you'll see in terms of our behavior, we've got some relationship as well. So what I'm asking today, the question I want to explore with you today is, what kind of ape are we in terms of our sexuality? Now, since Darwin's day there's been what Cacilda and I have called the standard narrative of human sexual evolution, and you're all familiar with it, even if you haven't read this stuff. The idea is that, as part of human nature, from the beginning of our species' time, men have sort of leased women's reproductive potential by providing them with certain goods and services. Generally we're talking about meat, shelter, status, protection, things like that. And in exchange, women have offered fidelity, or at least a promise of fidelity. Now this sets men and women up in an oppositional relationship. The war between the sexes is built right into our DNA, according to this vision. Right? What Cacilda and I have argued is that no, this economic relationship, this oppositional relationship, is actually an artifact of agriculture, which only arose about 10,000 years ago at the earliest. Anatomically modern human beings have been around for about 200,000 years, so we're talking about five percent, at most, of our time as a modern, distinct species. So before agriculture, before the agricultural revolution, it's important to understand that human beings lived in hunter-gatherer groups that are characterized wherever they're found in the world by what anthropologists called fierce egalitarianism. They not only share things, they demand that things be shared: meat, shelter, protection, all these things that were supposedly being traded to women for their sexual fidelity, it turns out, are shared widely among these societies. Now I'm not saying that our ancestors were noble savages, and I'm not saying modern day hunter-gatherers are noble savages either. What I'm saying is that this is simply the best way to mitigate risk in a foraging context. And there's really no argument about this among anthropologists. All Cacilda and I have done is extend this sharing behavior to sexuality. So we've argued that human sexuality has essentially evolved, until agriculture, as a way of establishing and maintaining the complex, flexible social systems, networks, that our ancestors were very good at, and that's why our species has survived so well.
一開始,我想說人類 並不是來自於大猩猩。 儘管你或許聽到這種說法,我們是大猩猩。 但人類和黑猩猩 還有倭黑猩猩之間的關連, 比非洲象和印度象之間更為相近。 就像賈德戴蒙在他早期著作中指出的。 我們和黑猩猩和倭黑猩猩, 比和大猩猩和倭黑猩猩之間的關係更接近, 比起任何其他靈長類動物。 大猩猩,紅毛猩猩,你想得到的種類, 所以我們非常接近黑猩猩和倭黑猩猩, 所以我們的行為, 也和牠們有些接近。 所以我今天要問一個問題, 我今天想要和你們一起探討的是, 根據我們的性行為,我們是哪一種猩猩? 從達爾文演化論一直以來, 卡欣達和我稱之為, 人類性演化的標準說法。 你們對此也很熟悉, 即使你沒有讀過, 這個說法的大意是,人類天性 從人類最初開始, 男人和女人建立一種契約關係, 女性有生育能力, 所以男性提供某些物品和服務。 一般來說,我們說的是肉品、住所、地位、 保護,等等之類的。 作為交換,女人提供她們的忠誠, 或至少忠誠的承諾。 這種說法把男性和女性 建立在對立的關係上, 根據這個理論,我們的基因 已經決定了兩性之間的對立,是嗎? 我和卡欣達持反對的立場, 因為這種利益的關係, 這種對立的關係, 是農業社會的產物。 而農業最早出現在1萬年以前, 但從解剖學看,現代人類 卻在20萬年前就出現。 所以農業時期只占 人類歷史百分之五的時間,最多。 在現代人類史中, 所以農業出現以前, 農業革命之前, 我們必須了解人類 生活在狩獵採集的群體中。 獵人盡可能的在各處尋找獵物, 人類學家稱之為: 競爭激烈的平等主義。 他們不但共享物品, 他們要求物品要共享, 肉品、住所、保護,所有這些東西, 都應該作為交換女人忠誠的代價,但事實證明, 都應該作為交換女人忠誠的代價,但事實證明, 狩獵採集部落共享所有以上的資源。 我現在不是說我們的祖先, 是高貴的野蠻人,我也不是說 現代的狩獵採集者是高貴的野蠻人。 我所要表達的是,這僅僅 是降低風險的方式。 在覓食的環境中, 人類學家也同意這種說法。 卡欣達和我一直以來所探討的是, 將這種共享行為延伸到性行為, 所以我們主張人們的性行為 基本上已經演變為,直到農業出現 建立和維護 這種複雜且靈活的社會網絡系統的方式。 我們的祖先很擅長此方式, 這也是為什麼人類可以存活下來的原因。
Now, this makes some people uncomfortable, and so I always need to take a moment in these talks to say, listen, I'm saying our ancestors were promiscuous, but I'm not saying they were having sex with strangers. There were no strangers. Right? In a hunter-gatherer band, there are no strangers. You've known these people your entire life. So I'm saying, yes, there were overlapping sexual relationships, that our ancestors probably had several different sexual relationships going on at any given moment in their adult lives. But I'm not saying they were having sex with strangers. I'm not saying that they didn't love the people they were having sex with. And I'm not saying there was no pair-bonding going on. I'm just saying it wasn't sexually exclusive.
這個論點會讓一些人感到不舒服, 所以我總需要在演說中, 花個幾分鐘解釋、 聽著, 我是說我們的祖先是多重性伴侶的, 但我不是說他們和陌生人發生性關係, 在他們之間沒有陌生人,對嗎? 在狩獵採集部落中,沒有陌生人。 你和周圍的人都認識一輩子, 所以我會說, 是的,他們有重疊的性關係, 而且我們的祖先大概有數段不同的性關係, 在他們的整個成年生活進行著。 但我不是說他們和陌生人發生性關係, 我不是說他們不愛和他們有性行為的人, 我不是說他們之間沒有伴侶的關係, 我只是說他們不只有一個性伴侶。
And those of us who have chosen to be monogamous -- my parents, for example, have been married for 52 years monogamously, and if it wasn't monogamously, Mom and Dad, I don't want to hear about it— I'm not criticizing this and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this. What I'm saying is that to argue that our ancestors were sexual omnivores is no more a criticism of monogamy than to argue that our ancestors were dietary omnivores is a criticism of vegetarianism. You can choose to be a vegetarian, but don't think that just because you've made that decision, bacon suddenly stops smelling good. Okay? So this is my point. (Laughter) That one took a minute to sink in, huh?
我們之中,有人選了一夫一妻制, 我的父母,舉例來說,已經結婚 52年了。 如果他們不是一夫一妻的話,爸爸媽媽 我不想要聽。 我不是在批評,我也不是在說 這樣有什麼不對, 我想要表達的是, 我們的祖先是多重性伴侶。 我並不是批評一夫一妻制, 就像我認為我們的祖先是雜食性, 不代表我批評素食主義, 你可以選擇當一位素食者, 但你不應該認為因為你的決定, 培根就突然聞起來不美味了。 好嗎? 這就是我的論點。 (笑聲) 這個笑話需要一些時間才能了解,是嗎?
Now, in addition to being a great genius, a wonderful man, a wonderful husband, a wonderful father, Charles Darwin was also a world-class Victorian prude. All right? He was perplexed by the sexual swellings of certain primates, including chimps and bonobos, because these sexual swellings tend to provoke many males to mate with the females. So he couldn't understand why on Earth would the female have developed this thing if all they were supposed to be doing is forming their pair bond, right? Chimps and bonobos, Darwin didn't really know this, but chimps and bonobos mate one to four times per hour with up to a dozen males per day when they have their sexual swellings. Interestingly, chimps have sexual swellings through 40 percent, roughly, of their menstrual cycle, bonobos 90 percent, and humans are among the only species on the planet where the female is available for sex throughout the menstrual cycle, whether she's menstruating, whether she's post-menopausal, whether she's already pregnant. This is vanishingly rare among mammals. So it's a very interesting aspect of human sexuality. Now, Darwin ignored the reflections of the sexual swelling in his own day, as scientists tend to do sometimes.
除了是偉大的天才, 一位了不起的人, 一位很棒的丈夫, 一位好父親,查爾斯達爾文 也是一位世界知名 維多利亞時期的保守人士。 好嗎? 達爾文感到困惑, 他不瞭解某些靈長類動物的性器官的腫脹, 包括黑猩猩和倭黑猩猩, 因為牠們性器官的腫脹使得 一個雌性可以和很多雄性交配。 達爾文無法理解為什麼性器官的腫脹 可以讓女性有多個性伴侶。 如果男女是伴侶的關係,是嗎? 關於黑猩猩和倭黑猩猩, 達爾文不知道的是 黑猩猩和倭黑猩猩 每小時可以交配一到四次, 一天可以和高達12個雄性進行交配, 當雌猩猩的性器官開始腫脹。 有趣的是,黑猩猩經歷性器官腫脹的時間 大概占百分之四十,大略來說 在牠們的月經周期, 倭黑猩猩則有百分之九十的時間都是如此。 而人類是靈長類動物之中, 唯一,女性可以隨時有性行為, 在整個月經周期, 不管是月經期間,或是經期後, 不管是不是懷孕。 這在哺乳類動物中是少見的。 這是人類性行為中有趣的特點。 但達爾文忽略當時 關於性器官腫脹的意見, 如同科學家常常如此。
So what we're talking about is sperm competition. Now the average human ejaculate has about 300 million sperm cells, so it's already a competitive environment. The question is whether these sperm are competing against other men's sperm or just their own. There's a lot to talk about in this chart. The one thing I'll call your attention to right away is the little musical note above the female chimp and bonobo and human. That indicates female copulatory vocalization. Just look at the numbers. The average human has sex about 1,000 times per birth. If that number seems high for some of you, I assure you it seems low for others in the room. We share that ratio with chimps and bonobos. We don't share it with the other three apes, the gorilla, the orangutan and the gibbon, who are more typical of mammals, having sex only about a dozen times per birth. Humans and bonobos are the only animals that have sex face-to-face when both of them are alive. (Laughter) And you'll see that the human, chimp and bonobo all have external testicles, which in our book we equate to a special fridge you have in the garage just for beer. If you're the kind of guy who has a beer fridge in the garage, you expect a party to happen at any moment, and you need to be ready. That's what the external testicles are. They keep the sperm cells cool so you can have frequent ejaculations. I'm sorry. It's true. The human, some of you will be happy to hear, has the largest, thickest penis of any primate.
我們談的是精液的競爭, 一般男性射精時會有3億個精蟲, 所以這是個競爭的環境。 問題是,精蟲需要和 別的男性的精蟲競爭 或只是自己競爭? 在這個圖表上,有很多東西可以討論。 唯一一件事我想要你們注意的是, 投影片上雌性黑猩猩, 倭黑猩猩和人類頭上的小音符, 代表牠們的雌性性交發聲, 看一下這些數據, 人類性交的平均次數是 一生一千次。 如果這個數字對一些人來說太多了, 我保證這個數字對 這個房間的另一些人來說太少了。 人類和黑猩猩和倭黑猩猩的性交次數相近, 但和其他三種猩猩不同。 大猩猩,猩猩和長臂猿 這三種都是典型的哺乳類動物。 牠們一生的性交次數大約是12次。 再來,人類和倭黑猩猩是 唯一會面對面性交的動物。 當兩方都是活著的時候。 (笑聲) 而且,人類,黑猩猩和倭黑猩猩 都有外露的睾丸,在我們的著作裡, 我們把它比喻成你放在車庫的特殊冰箱, 只冰啤酒, 如果你是那種男性, 在車庫裡有專門放啤酒的冰箱。 你隨時都可以舉辦派對, 所以你需要準備好。 這就是外露睪丸的功用。 這使得精蟲細胞能保持涼爽, 所以才可以頻繁的射精。 不好意思, 但這是事實。 有些人會很高興地聽到, 人類在所有靈長類動物中, 擁有最大最粗的陰莖。
Now, this evidence goes way beyond anatomy. It goes into anthropology as well. Historical records are full of accounts of people around the world who have sexual practices that should be impossible given what we have assumed about human sexual evolution. These women are the Mosuo from southwestern China. In their society, everyone, men and women, are completely sexually autonomous. There's no shame associated with sexual behavior. Women have hundreds of partners. It doesn't matter. Nobody cares. Nobody gossips. It's not an issue. When the woman becomes pregnant, the child is cared for by her, her sisters, and her brothers. The biological father is a nonissue. On the other side of the planet, in the Amazon, we've got many tribes which practice what anthropologists call partible paternity. These people actually believe -- and they have no contact among them, no common language or anything, so it's not an idea that spread, it's an idea that's arisen around the world -- they believe that a fetus is literally made of accumulated semen. So a woman who wants to have a child who's smart and funny and strong makes sure she has lots of sex with the smart guy, the funny guy and the strong guy, to get the essence of each of these men into the baby, and then when the child is born, these different men will come forward and acknowledge their paternity of the child. So paternity is actually sort of a team endeavor in this society. So there are all sorts of examples like this that we go through in the book.
這個證據不僅在解剖學上被證實, 它也在人類學中被證實。 歷史記載也記錄了 世界各地的性行為, 根據我們原先的推論, 在人類性行為的演化中 是不可能發生的。 中國西南方的摩梭族女性, 在他們的社會中, 每個人,男人和女人 都是性自主的。 性行為從來不是可恥的, 女人可以有數百個性伴侶。 這並不重要,沒有人在乎 沒有人八卦,這不是個問題。 當女人懷孕時, 小孩由母親, 母親的姊妹和兄弟照顧。 誰是生父並不重要。 在地球的另一端, 在亞馬遜, 我們現在得知許多部落有著 人類學家稱之為 可分的父權制度, 這些人確實相信-- 這些部落之間彼此沒有聯繫, 沒有共同語言或任何東西。 所以這個觀念並沒有被傳播, 但這個想法在世界各地都出現。 人們相信胎兒是 從累積的精液中產生的。 如果一個女人想要一個孩子, 既聰明,有趣,又強壯 她會確認她分別和聰明 有趣,和強壯的男人有很多次的性行為。 為了讓她的孩子擁有這些男人的特質。 當小孩出生時, 這些男人會上前 去承認他們是孩子的父親。 所以父權是團隊努力的結果。 在他們的社會中, 我們可以找到很多類似的例子。 當我們查閱文獻,
Now, why does this matter? Edward Wilson says we need to understand that human sexuality is first a bonding device and only secondarily procreation. I think that's true. This matters because our evolved sexuality is in direct conflict with many aspects of the modern world. The contradictions between what we're told we should feel and what we actually do feel generates a huge amount of unnecessary suffering. My hope is that a more accurate, updated understanding of human sexuality will lead us to have greater tolerance for ourselves, for each other, greater respect for unconventional relationship configurations like same-sex marriage or polyamorous unions, and that we'll finally put to rest the idea that men have some innate, instinctive right to monitor and control women's sexual behavior. (Applause) Thank you. And we'll see that it's not only gay people that have to come out of the closet. We all have closets we have to come out of. Right? And when we do come out of those closets, we'll recognize that our fight is not with each other, our fight is with an outdated, Victorian sense of human sexuality that conflates desire with property rights, generates shame and confusion in place of understanding and empathy. It's time we moved beyond Mars and Venus, because the truth is that men are from Africa and women are from Africa.
但這有什麼重要的? 艾德華威爾森說過: 我們需要了解, 人類的性行為首要是形成親密關係的機制, 其次才是生育。 我想這是事實, 這是重要的。 因為我們演化的性觀念, 和世界很多地方的觀念衝突。 我們被告知, 我們應該如何感受, 和我們真實的感覺有很大的不同。 我們因此被這些不必要的矛盾所困擾。 我希望我們能了解更正確, 更現代的人類性行為。 這會讓我們更包容自己, 和包容彼此。 更能接納非傳統的關係組合。 例如,同性婚姻或是多重伴侶, 然後,我們會摒棄所謂的觀念, 認為男性擁有與生俱來的權力, 去監視和控制女性的性行為。 (掌聲) 謝謝。 我們會了解不是只有同性戀者, 需要出櫃, 我們都有衣櫃需要出去, 對吧? 當我們走出我們的衣櫃, 我們會了解到我們要對抗的不是彼此, 而是那些過時, 維多利亞時期的人類性行為的觀念。 那些將慾望和財產合為一體的觀念。 這讓我們感到羞恥和困惑, 而不是了解和同情。 是時候我們要離開火星和金星 (認為男女是對立的關係)。 因為,事實是 男人來自非洲, 女人也來自非洲。
Thank you.
謝謝。
(Applause)
(掌聲)
Chris Anderson: Thank you. Christopher Ryan: Thank you.
克里斯安德森: 謝謝, 克里斯多福瑞德: 謝謝。
CA: So a question. It's so perplexing, trying to use arguments about evolutionary history to turn that into what we ought to do today. Someone could give a talk and say, look at us, we've got these really sharp teeth and muscles and a brain that's really good at throwing weapons, and if you look at lots of societies around the world, you'll see very high rates of violence. Nonviolence is a choice like vegetarianism, but it's not who you are. How is that different from the talk you gave?
克里斯安德森: 我有一個問題, 我覺得這有點讓人難以了解, 因為你嘗試用 演化歷史 來告訴當今的我們應該如何做。 別人也可以說 看看我們, 我們有這些尖銳的牙齒, 肌肉,和頭腦,這些都讓我們 擅長丟擲武器, 然後如果你看看世界各地許多的社會, 你會看到暴力發生的比率非常高, 所以非暴力就像素食主義一樣少, 但這不代表你是誰。 以上的論述, 和你的演說有什麼不同?
CR: Well first of all, the evidence for high levels of violence in prehistory is very debatable. But that's just an example. Certainly, you know, lots of people say to me, just because we lived a certain way in the past doesn't mean we should live that way now, and I agree with that. Everyone has to respond to the modern world. But the body does have its inherent evolved trajectories. And so you could live on McDonald's and milkshakes, but your body will rebel against that. We have appetites. I think it was Schopenhauer who said, a person can do what they want but not want what they want. And so what I'm arguing against is the shame that's associated with desires. It's the idea that if you love your husband or wife but you still are attracted to other people, there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with your marriage, something wrong with your partner. I think a lot of families are fractured by unrealistic expectations that are based upon this false vision of human sexuality. That's what I'm trying to get at.
克里斯多福瑞德: 首先, 有關史前 高暴力發生率的證據, 這還有待商榷, 這只是一個例子, 當然,很多人和我說, 不能因為我們以前的某種生活方式, 就表示我們應該也要如此生活。 我同意這種看法。 每個人都需要對現代的世界做出回應。 但是, 身體確實有其與生俱來的 演變軌跡。 你可以只吃麥當勞和奶昔, 但你的身體會抗議, 我們有慾望, 我想這就是叔本華所說的, 一個人可以做任何他們想做的事, 但現代的社會規範讓他們無法隨心所欲。 所以這就是我反對 將羞恥和慾望連結在一起。 也就是說,你愛你的丈夫或妻子, 但你還是會被其他人所吸引, 所以表示你有問題, 你的婚姻有問題, 你的伴侶有問題。 我想很多家庭破碎, 因為不實際的期待 建立在 對人類性行為有錯誤的見解。 這是我試圖要解釋的。
CA: Thank you. Communicated powerfully. Thanks a lot.
克里斯安德森: 謝謝。 這是很撼動人心的演說, 非常感謝。
CR: Thank you, Chris. (Applause)
克里斯多福瑞德: 謝謝,克里斯 (掌聲)。