Chris Anderson: Christiane, great to have you here. So you've had this amazing viewpoint, and perhaps it's fair to say that in the last few years, there have been some alarming developments that you're seeing. What's alarmed you most?
Chris Anderson: Christiane, hvala što ste došli. Imali ste sjajno stajalište, a možemo reći da ste u proteklih par godina svjedočili nekim alarmantnim događajima. Što vas najviše uznemiruje?
Christiane Amanpour: Well, just listening to the earlier speakers, I can frame it in what they've been saying: climate change, for instance -- cities, the threat to our environment and our lives. It basically also boils down to understanding the truth and to be able to get to the truth of what we're talking about in order to really be able to solve it. So if 99.9 percent of the science on climate is empirical, scientific evidence, but it's competing almost equally with a handful of deniers, that is not the truth; that is the epitome of fake news. And so for me, the last few years -- certainly this last year -- has crystallized the notion of fake news in a way that's truly alarming and not just some slogan to be thrown around. Because when you can't distinguish between the truth and fake news, you have a very much more difficult time trying to solve some of the great issues that we face.
Christiane Amanpour: Nakon što sam poslušala ranije govornike, mogu sažeti ono o čemu oni govore: npr. klimatske promjene - gradovi, opasnost za okoliš i za naše živote. Svodi se na to da razumijemo istinu i da možemo razaznati istinu o onome o čemo govorimo, kako bismo mogli riješiti problem. Ako 99,9 posto znanstvenih dokaza o klimi proizlazi iz empirijskih znanstvenih dokaza, koji se jednako uspoređuju sa šačicom protivnika, tu se ne radi o istini; to je primjer lažnih vijesti. Meni se u proteklih par godina, a posebice u zadnjoj godini iskristalizirala ideja lažnih vijesti na način koji je zastrašujuć, ne radi se samo o sloganu kojim se razbacujemo. Jer kada ne možeš razlikovati istinu od lažnih vijesti, puno je teže nastojati riješiti neke od velikih problema s kojima se suočavamo.
CA: Well, you've been involved in this question of, what is balance, what is truth, what is impartiality, for a long time. You were on the front lines reporting the Balkan Wars 25 years ago. And back then, you famously said, by calling out human right abuses, you said, "Look, there are some situations one simply cannot be neutral about, because when you're neutral, you are an accomplice." So, do you feel that today's journalists aren't heeding that advice about balance?
CH: Uključena si u raspravu o uravnoteženosti, istini, objektivnosti već duže vrijeme. Izvještavala si iz rovova balkanskih ratova prije 25 godina. Proslavila si se poznatom izjavom o kršenju ljudskih prava: "Postoje situacije u kojima ne možeš ostati neutralan, jer ako ostaneš neutralan, postaješ suučesnik." Misliš li da današnje novinare nije briga za uravnoteženost?
CA: Well, look, I think for journalists, objectivity is the golden rule. But I think sometimes we don't understand what objectivity means. And I actually learned this very, very young in my career, which was during the Balkan Wars. I was young then. It was about 25 years ago. And what we faced was the wholesale violation, not just of human rights, but all the way to ethnic cleansing and genocide, and that has been adjudicated in the highest war crimes court in the world. So, we know what we were seeing. Trying to tell the world what we were seeing brought us accusations of bias, of siding with one side, of not seeing the whole side, and just, you know, trying to tell one story. I particularly and personally was accused of siding with, for instance, the citizens of Sarajevo -- "siding with the Muslims," because they were the minority who were being attacked by Christians on the Serb side in this area. And it worried me. It worried me that I was being accused of this. I thought maybe I was wrong, maybe I'd forgotten what objectivity was.
CA: Mislim da je objektivnost zlatno pravilo za novinare. Ali mislim da ponekad ne znamo što znači objektivnost. To sam zapravo naučila u počecima svoje karijere, za vrijeme balkanskih ratova. Bila sam mlada. To je bilo prije 25 godina. Suočili smo se s raznim povredama, ne samo ljudskih prava, već i s etničkim čišćenjem i genocidom, što je završilo na najvišem sudu za ratne zločine na svijetu. Sada znamo što smo vidjeli. Kada smo pokušali prenijeti svijetu što vidimo, optuživali su nas za pristranost, da zauzimamo jednu stranu, da ne vidimo cijelu priču i da pokušavamo dati samo jednu stranu priče. Mene su osobno optužili da zauzimam stranu građana Sarajeva... "da se zauzimam za muslimane" jer su oni bili manjina koju su napadali kršćani sa srpske strane na tom području. To me zabrinjavalo. Brinulo me što me optužuju za to. Mislila sam da sam možda u krivu, da sam zaboravila što je objektivnost.
But then I started to understand that what people wanted was actually not to do anything -- not to step in, not to change the situation, not to find a solution. And so, their fake news at that time, their lie at that time -- including our government's, our democratically elected government's, with values and principles of human rights -- their lie was to say that all sides are equally guilty, that this has been centuries of ethnic hatred, whereas we knew that wasn't true, that one side had decided to kill, slaughter and ethnically cleanse another side. So that is where, for me, I understood that objectivity means giving all sides an equal hearing and talking to all sides, but not treating all sides equally, not creating a forced moral equivalence or a factual equivalence. And when you come up against that crisis point in situations of grave violations of international and humanitarian law, if you don't understand what you're seeing, if you don't understand the truth and if you get trapped in the fake news paradigm, then you are an accomplice. And I refuse to be an accomplice to genocide.
Ali onda sam shvatila da ljudi žele da ništa ne činiš, da se ne uključuješ, ne pokušavaš promijeniti situaciju, ne tražiš rješenje. Tako da su lažne vijesti u ono doba, njihova laž iz onog doba... uključujući naše vlade, demokratski izabrane vlade, s vrijednostima i načelima ljudskih prava... njihova je laž bila da su sve strane jednako krive, da se radi o stoljećima etničke mržnje, a mi smo znali da to nije istina, da je jedna strana odlučila ubijati, klati i provoditi etničko čišćenje nad drugom stranom. Tu sam shvatila da za mene objektivnost znači saslušati sve strane, razgovarati sa svim stranama, ali ne i jednako postupati prema svima, nikako stvarati prisilne moralne ili činjenične jednakosti. A kada dođete do te kritične točke u situacijama ozbiljnog kršenja međunarodnih i humanitarnih prava, ako ne razumijete to čemu svjedočite, ako ne razumijete istinu i uhvaćeni ste u paradigmu lažnih vijesti, vi postajete suučesnik. A ja odbijam biti suučesnik u genocidu.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
CH: So there have always been these propaganda battles, and you were courageous in taking the stand you took back then. Today, there's a whole new way, though, in which news seems to be becoming fake. How would you characterize that?
CH: Propagandne bitke postoje oduvijek, a vi ste bili hrabri i zauzeli svoj stav. Danas postoje potpuno drukčiji načini kako vijesti postaju lažne. Kako biste to objasnili?
CA: Well, look -- I am really alarmed. And everywhere I look, you know, we're buffeted by it. Obviously, when the leader of the free world, when the most powerful person in the entire world, which is the president of the United States -- this is the most important, most powerful country in the whole world, economically, militarily, politically in every which way -- and it seeks to, obviously, promote its values and power around the world. So we journalists, who only seek the truth -- I mean, that is our mission -- we go around the world looking for the truth in order to be everybody's eyes and ears, people who can't go out in various parts of the world to figure out what's going on about things that are vitally important to everybody's health and security. So when you have a major world leader accusing you of fake news, it has an exponential ripple effect. And what it does is, it starts to chip away at not just our credibility, but at people's minds -- people who look at us, and maybe they're thinking, "Well, if the president of the United States says that, maybe somewhere there's a truth in there."
CA: Vidite, ja sam stvarno uznemirena. Gdje god da pogledam, šamaraju nas time. Naravno, kada vođa slobodnog svijeta, najmoćnija osoba na cijelom svijetu, predsjednik Sjedinjenih Država, to je najvažnija, najmoćnija zemlja na cijelom svijetu, gospodarski, vojno, politički, na sve načine... i naravno da želi promicati svoje vrijednosti i moć diljem svijeta. Mi, novinari, koji tražimo istinu, to je naša misija, idemo svijetom tražeći istinu kako bismo bili oči i uši ostalih, ljudi koji ne mogu posjetiti druge dijelove svijeta kako bi saznali više o ključnim stvarima za zdravlje i sigurnost čovječanstva. Kada vas veliki svjetski vođa optuži za lažne vijesti, to uzrokuje lančanu reakciju. Počinje nagrizati ne samo našu vjerodostojnost, već i umove ljudi... ljudi koji nas gledaju i misle: "Ako predsjednik Sjedinjenih Država to kaže, možda u tome ima istine."
CH: Presidents have always been critical of the media --
CH: Predsjednici su uvijek kritizirali medije...
CA: Not in this way.
CA: Ne na ovaj način.
CH: So, to what extent --
CH: U kojoj mjeri...
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
CH: I mean, someone a couple years ago looking at the avalanche of information pouring through Twitter and Facebook and so forth, might have said, "Look, our democracies are healthier than they've ever been. There's more news than ever. Of course presidents will say what they'll say, but everyone else can say what they will say. What's not to like? How is there an extra danger?"
CH: Prije par godina, da je netko vidio tu lavinu informacija koja se danas slijeva Twitterom, Facebookom, itd., rekao bi: "Vidi, naše su demokracije zdravije nego ikad. Vijesti je više nego ikada. Naravno, predsjednici govore svoje, ali i drugi mogu govoriti svoje. Što je u tome loše? Gdje leži opasnost?"
CA: So, I wish that was true. I wish that the proliferation of platforms upon which we get our information meant that there was a proliferation of truth and transparency and depth and accuracy. But I think the opposite has happened. You know, I'm a little bit of a Luddite, I will confess. Even when we started to talk about the information superhighway, which was a long time ago, before social media, Twitter and all the rest of it, I was actually really afraid that that would put people into certain lanes and tunnels and have them just focusing on areas of their own interest instead of seeing the broad picture. And I'm afraid to say that with algorithms, with logarithms, with whatever the "-ithms" are that direct us into all these particular channels of information, that seems to be happening right now. I mean, people have written about this phenomenon. People have said that yes, the internet came, its promise was to exponentially explode our access to more democracy, more information, less bias, more varied information. And, in fact, the opposite has happened. And so that, for me, is incredibly dangerous. And again, when you are the president of this country and you say things, it also gives leaders in other undemocratic countries the cover to affront us even worse, and to really whack us -- and their own journalists -- with this bludgeon of fake news.
CA: Voljela bih da je tako. Voljela bih kada bi porast platformi s kojih dolaze informacije značio da postoji porast istine i transparentnosti, dubine i točnosti. Ali, mislim da se dogodilo suprotno. Znate, ja sam pomalo luddit, priznajem. Čak i kada smo počeli govoriti o ogromnom protoku informacija, što je bilo prije dosta vremena, prije društvenih mreža, Twittera i svega ostalog, zapravo me je bilo strah da će ljudi dobiti svoje cestice i tunele informacija i da će se usredotočiti samo na ono što ih zanima, umjesto da gledaju širu sliku. I bojim se da se uz algoritme, logaritme, koje god "itme", koji nas vode kroz te kanale informacija, upravo to danas događa. Ljudi su već pisali o toj pojavi. Kažu da je istina da je pojava interneta značila obećanje o rastućoj dostupnosti većoj demokraciji, većoj količini informacija, manjoj razini pristranosti, raznovrsnijim informacijama. A zapravo se dogodilo suprotno. I za mene je to jako opasno. Ponavljam, kada predsjednik države govori takve stvari, daje priliku vođama drugih, manje demokratskih država da nas još više napadaju, da šamaraju nas i naše novinare tom toljagom lažnih vijesti.
CH: To what extent is what happened, though, in part, just an unintended consequence, that the traditional media that you worked in had this curation-mediation role, where certain norms were observed, certain stories would be rejected because they weren't credible, but now that the standard for publication and for amplification is just interest, attention, excitement, click, "Did it get clicked on?" "Send it out there!" and that's what's -- is that part of what's caused the problem?
CH: Ipak, u kojoj je mjeri ono što se dogodilo tek nenamjerna posljedica, tradicionalni mediji u kojima ste radili imali su ulogu konzervatora i posrednika, poštivale su se određene norme, neke bi se priče odbile jer nisu bile vjerodostojne, ali sada je standard za objavu samo interes, pažnja, uzbuđenje, klikovi, "Je li se kliknulo?" "Šalji to!" Je li to djelomični uzrok problema?
CA: I think it's a big problem, and we saw this in the election of 2016, where the idea of "clickbait" was very sexy and very attractive, and so all these fake news sites and fake news items were not just haphazardly and by happenstance being put out there, there's been a whole industry in the creation of fake news in parts of Eastern Europe, wherever, and you know, it's planted in real space and in cyberspace. So I think that, also, the ability of our technology to proliferate this stuff at the speed of sound or light, just about -- we've never faced that before. And we've never faced such a massive amount of information which is not curated by those whose profession leads them to abide by the truth, to fact-check and to maintain a code of conduct and a code of professional ethics.
CA: Mislim da je to velik problem, vidjeli smo to kod izbora 2016. kada je ideja "clickbaita" bila vrlo privlačna i postojale su stranice s lažnim vijestima koje se nisu objavljivale tek nasumično, pokrenuta je industrija stvaranja lažnih vijesti u dijelovima istočne Europe, gdje god, i nalazi se u stvarnom i u internetskom prostoru. Mislim da je i naša tehnologija koja to omogućuje brzinom zvuka ili svjetlosti, nikada se nismo suočavali s takvim nečim. I nikada se nismo suočavali s masivnim količinama informacija koje ne uređuju oni čija struka nalaže da se drže istine, da provjere činjenice i da se drže kodeksa ponašanja i profesionalne etike.
CH: Many people here may know people who work at Facebook or Twitter and Google and so on. They all seem like great people with good intention -- let's assume that. If you could speak with the leaders of those companies, what would you say to them?
CH: Mnogi ljudi ovdje možda poznaju osobe koje rade za Facebook, Twtitter, Google, itd. Svi se čine kao ljudi s dobrim namjerama... uzmimo to kao pretpostavku. Kada biste mogli razgovarati s voditeljima tih tvrtki, što biste im rekli?
CA: Well, you know what -- I'm sure they are incredibly well-intentioned, and they certainly developed an unbelievable, game-changing system, where everybody's connected on this thing called Facebook. And they've created a massive economy for themselves and an amazing amount of income. I would just say, "Guys, you know, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee and look at what's happening to us right now." Mark Zuckerberg wants to create a global community. I want to know: What is that global community going to look like? I want to know where the codes of conduct actually are. Mark Zuckerberg said -- and I don't blame him, he probably believed this -- that it was crazy to think that the Russians or anybody else could be tinkering and messing around with this avenue. And what have we just learned in the last few weeks? That, actually, there has been a major problem in that regard, and now they're having to investigate it and figure it out. Yes, they're trying to do what they can now to prevent the rise of fake news, but, you know, it went pretty unrestricted for a long, long time. So I guess I would say, you know, you guys are brilliant at technology; let's figure out another algorithm. Can we not?
CA: Znate što? Vjerujem da imaju dobre namjere i stvorili su sustave koji mijenjaju svijet, u kojem su svi povezani preko Facebooka. Stvorili su ogromno vlastito gospodarstvo i nevjerojatne prihode. Rekla bih: "Dečki, vrijeme je da se probudite, popijete kavu i pogledate što nam se događa." Mark Zuckerberg želi stvoriti globalnu zajednicu. Ja želim znati: kako će globalna zajednica izgledati? Gdje se nalaze kodeksi ponašanja? Mark Zuckerberg je rekao... i ne krivim ga, vjerojatno u to vjeruje, da bi bila ludost misliti da će Rusi ili bilo tko drugi ići tim putem. A što smo saznali u proteklih par tjedana? Da u vezi s tim postoji golem problem koji sada moraju ispitati i riješiti. Da, sada pokušavaju sve što mogu da bi spriječili porast lažnih vijesti, ali, znate, prostor je bio neograničen jako, jako dugo. Rekla bih, znate, dečki, sjajni ste u tehnologiji; osmislimo novi algoritam. Zar ne možemo?
CH: An algorithm that includes journalistic investigation --
CH: Algoritam koji uključuje novinarsko istraživanje...
CA: I don't really know how they do it, but somehow, you know -- filter out the crap!
CA: Ne znam kako bi to napravili, ali nekako moramo filtrirati sranje!
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
And not just the unintentional --
I to ne samo nenamjerne...
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
but the deliberate lies that are planted by people who've been doing this as a matter of warfare for decades. The Soviets, the Russians -- they are the masters of war by other means, of hybrid warfare. And this is a -- this is what they've decided to do. It worked in the United States, it didn't work in France, it hasn't worked in Germany. During the elections there, where they've tried to interfere, the president of France right now, Emmanuel Macron, took a very tough stand and confronted it head on, as did Angela Merkel.
već i namjerne laži koje poslužuju oni koji na ovaj način ratuju već desetljećima. Sovjeti, Rusi, savladali su druge vrste ratova, hibridne ratove. I ovo je to... to što su odlučili napraviti. Djelovalo je u Sjedinjenim Državama, nije djelovalo u Francuskoj, nije djelovalo u Njemačkoj. Za vrijeme tamošnjih izbora, kada su se pokušali ubaciti, sadašnji predsjednik Francuske, Emmanuel Macron, zauzeo je oštar stav i suprotstavio se, kao i Angela Merkel.
CH: There's some hope to be had from some of this, isn't there? That the world learns. We get fooled once, maybe we get fooled again, but maybe not the third time. Is that true?
CH: Postoji neka nada u svemu ovome, zar ne? Da će svijet naučiti. Mogu nas prevariti jedanput, možda i dvaput, ali ne i treći put. Je li tako?
CA: I mean, let's hope. But I think in this regard that so much of it is also about technology, that the technology has to also be given some kind of moral compass. I know I'm talking nonsense, but you know what I mean.
CA: Nadajmo se. Budući veliki dio ovisi o tehnologiji, tehnologija mora dobiti moralni kompas. Znam da govorim besmislice, ali znate što želim reći.
CH: We need a filter-the-crap algorithm with a moral compass --
CH: Treba nam algoritam za filtriranje sranja s moralnim kompasom...
CA: There you go.
CA: Tako je.
CH: I think that's good.
CH: Mislim da je to dobro.
CA: No -- "moral technology." We all have moral compasses -- moral technology.
CA: Ne... "moralna tehnologija." Svi imamo moralne kompase... moralna tehnologija.
CH: I think that's a great challenge. CA: You know what I mean.
CH: To je veliki izazov. CA: Znate što mislim.
CH: Talk just a minute about leadership. You've had a chance to speak with so many people across the world. I think for some of us -- I speak for myself, I don't know if others feel this -- there's kind of been a disappointment of: Where are the leaders? So many of us have been disappointed -- Aung San Suu Kyi, what's happened recently, it's like, "No! Another one bites the dust." You know, it's heartbreaking.
CH: Osvrnimo se malo na vodstvo. Imali ste priliku razgovarati s puno ljudi diljem svijeta. Za neke od nas... govorim u svoje ime, ne znam što drugi misle... malo smo se razočarali: Gdje su vođe? Mnogi od nas osjećaju razočaranje... Aung San Suu Kyi i nedavna zbivanja: "O, ne! Još je jedna svladana." To je jako tužno.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
Who have you met who you have been impressed by, inspired by?
Od ljudi koje ste upoznali, tko vas je impresionirao, nadahnuo?
CA: Well, you talk about the world in crisis, which is absolutely true, and those of us who spend our whole lives immersed in this crisis -- I mean, we're all on the verge of a nervous breakdown. So it's pretty stressful right now. And you're right -- there is this perceived and actual vacuum of leadership, and it's not me saying it, I ask all these -- whoever I'm talking to, I ask about leadership. I was speaking to the outgoing president of Liberia today, [Ellen Johnson Sirleaf,] who --
CA: Govorite o svijetu u krizi, što je istina, a mi koji cijeli život provodimo udubljeni u tu krizu... svi smo na rubu živčanog sloma. Vremena su stresna. I u pravu ste, došlo je do opipljivog i stvarnog vakuuma vodstva, i to ne mislim samo ja, s kim god da razgovaram, pitam ih o vodstvu. Danas sam razgovarala s vrlo pristupačnom predsjednicom Liberije, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, koja...
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
in three weeks' time, will be one of the very rare heads of an African country who actually abides by the constitution and gives up power after her prescribed term. She has said she wants to do that as a lesson. But when I asked her about leadership, and I gave a quick-fire round of certain names, I presented her with the name of the new French president, Emmanuel Macron. And she said -- I said, "So what do you think when I say his name?" And she said, "Shaping up potentially to be a leader to fill our current leadership vacuum." I thought that was really interesting. Yesterday, I happened to have an interview with him. I'm very proud to say, I got his first international interview. It was great. It was yesterday. And I was really impressed. I don't know whether I should be saying that in an open forum, but I was really impressed.
za tri tjedna postaje jedna od rijetkih afričkih vođa koja se pridržava ustava i predaje vlast nakon isteka mandata. Rekla je da time želi dati lekciju. Ali kada sam je pitala za vodstvo i ispalila nekoliko imena, spomenula sam ime novog francuskog predsjednika, Emmanuela Macrona. A ona je rekla... Pitala sam: "Što pomislite kada izgovorim njegovo ime?" Odgovorila je: "Razvija se u mogućeg vođu koji bi popunio aktualni vakuum vodstva." Mislim da je to bilo vrlo zanimljivo. Jučer sam razgovarala s njim. Mogu s ponosom reći da mi je dao svoj prvi međunarodni intervju i bilo je sjajno. Bila sam zaista impresionirana. Ne znam bih li trebala to govoriti ovako u forumu, ali zaista me impresionirao. (Smijeh)
(Laughter)
And it could be just because it was his first interview, but -- I asked questions, and you know what? He answered them!
Možda zato što je to bio njegov prvi intervju, ali, postavljala sam pitanja i znate što? Odgovarao je na njih!
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
There was no spin, there was no wiggle and waggle, there was no spend-five-minutes- to-come-back-to-the-point. I didn't have to keep interrupting, which I've become rather renowned for doing, because I want people to answer the question. And he answered me, and it was pretty interesting. And he said --
Nije bilo spinova, nije bilo izmotavanja, nije bilo trošenja minuta da bi se vratio na temu. Nisam ga morala prekidati, po čemu sam postala poznata, jer želim da ljudi odgovore na pitanje. I odgovorio mi je, i bilo je jako zanimljivo. Rekao je...
CH: Tell me what he said.
CH: Kažite što je rekao.
CA: No, no, you go ahead.
CA: Ne, ne, izvolite.
CH: You're the interrupter, I'm the listener.
CH: Vi prekidate, ja slušam.
CA: No, no, go ahead.
CA: Ne, ne, izvolite.
CH: What'd he say?
CH: Što je rekao?
CA: OK. You've talked about nationalism and tribalism here today. I asked him, "How did you have the guts to confront the prevailing winds of anti-globalization, nationalism, populism when you can see what happened in Brexit, when you could see what happened in the United States and what might have happened in many European elections at the beginning of 2017?" And he said, "For me, nationalism means war. We have seen it before, we have lived through it before on my continent, and I am very clear about that." So he was not going to, just for political expediency, embrace the, kind of, lowest common denominator that had been embraced in other political elections. And he stood against Marine Le Pen, who is a very dangerous woman.
CA: U redu. Ovdje ste danas govorili o nacionalizmu i pripadnosti. Pitala sam ga: "Kako ste se usudili suprotstaviti trendovima antiglobalizacije, nacionalizma, populizma, kada vidite što se događa s Brexitom, kada vidite što se događa u SAD-u i što bi se moglo dogoditi na mnogim europskim izborima početkom 2017.?" Rekao je: "Za mene nacionalizam predstavlja rat. Već smo to vidjeli, već smo to proživjeli na mojem kontinentu i vrlo sam jasan po tom pitanju." Nije pristao radi lakše političke borbe prihvatiti najniži oblik određivanja koji je prihvaćen u drugim političkim izborima. Suprotstavio se Marine Le Pen, vrlo opasnoj ženi.
CH: Last question for you, Christiane. TED is about ideas worth spreading. If you could plant one idea into the minds of everyone here, what would that be?
CH: Zadnje pitanje za vas, Christiane. Kažite nam nešto o idejama koje vrijedi dijeliti. Kad biste mogli usaditi jednu ideju u glave svih ljudi ovdje, koja bi to ideja bila?
CA: I would say really be careful where you get your information from; really take responsibility for what you read, listen to and watch; make sure that you go to the trusted brands to get your main information, no matter whether you have a wide, eclectic intake, really stick with the brand names that you know, because in this world right now, at this moment right now, our crises, our challenges, our problems are so severe, that unless we are all engaged as global citizens who appreciate the truth, who understand science, empirical evidence and facts, then we are just simply going to be wandering along to a potential catastrophe.
CA: Treba paziti odakle dobivate informacije, preuzmite odgovornost za ono što čitate, slušate i gledate, pazite da informacije dobivate od priznatih imena, bez obzira je li vaš izbor eklektičan, držite se imena koje poznajete, jer u ovom svijetu danas, u današnjem trenutku, naše krize, izazovi i problemi toliko su teški i ako se ne angažiramo kao globalni građani koji cijene istinu, koji razumiju znanost, empirijske dokaze i činjenice, srljat ćemo uokolo prema mogućoj katastrofi.
So I would say, the truth, and then I would come back to Emmanuel Macron and talk about love. I would say that there's not enough love going around. And I asked him to tell me about love. I said, "You know, your marriage is the subject of global obsession."
Rekla bih da je to istina, a zatim bih se vratila do Emmanuela Macrona i govorila o ljubavi. Mislim da nema dovoljno ljubavi u svijetu. Pitala sam ga da mi kaže o ljubavi. Rekla sam: "Vaš je brak predmet globalne opsesije."
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
"Can you tell me about love? What does it mean to you?" I've never asked a president or an elected leader about love. I thought I'd try it. And he said -- you know, he actually answered it. And he said, "I love my wife, she is part of me, we've been together for decades." But here's where it really counted, what really stuck with me. He said, "It is so important for me to have somebody at home who tells me the truth."
"Kažite mi nešto o ljubavi. Što ona znači za vas?" Nikada nisam niti jednog predsjednika ni vođu pitala o ljubavi. Htjela sam pokušati. I odgovorio je i na to. Rekao je: "Volim svoju ženu, ona je dio mene, zajedno smo već desetljećima." Ali onda je došao do onog važnog, što sam zapamtila. Rekao je: "Važno mi je da me kod kuće čeka netko tko mi govori istinu."
So you see, I brought it home. It's all about the truth.
Vidite, vratila sam se na početak. Sve je u istini.
(Laughter)
(Smijeh)
CH: So there you go. Truth and love. Ideas worth spreading.
CH: Evo ga. Istina i ljubav. Ideje koje vrijedi dijeliti.
Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much. That was great.
Christiane Amanpour, puno hvala. Bilo je sjajno.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
CA: Thank you. CH: That was really lovely.
CA: Hvala. CH: Bilo je zaista lijepo.
(Applause)
(Pljesak)
CA: Thank you.
CA: Hvala.