Eight years ago, I was haunted by an evil spirit.
Pre osam godina, proganjao me je zli duh.
I was 25 at the time, and I was living in a tiny house behind someone else's house in Los Angeles. It was this guest house, it had kind of been dilapidated, not taken care of for a long time. And one night, I was sitting there and I got this really spooky feeling, kind of the feeling like you're being watched. But no one was there except my two dogs, and they were just chewing their feet. And I looked around. No one was there. And I thought, OK, it's just my imagination. But the feeling just kept getting worse, and I started to feel this pressure in my chest, sort of like the feeling when you get bad news. But it started to sink lower and lower and almost hurt.
Tada mi je bilo 25 godina i živela sam u kućici iza nečije druge kuće u Los Anđelesu. Bila je to gostinska kuća, koja je nekeko bila trošna, dugo nije održavana. I jedne noći sam sedela u njoj i imala sam taj krajnje jeziv osećaj, nalik osećaju da vas neko posmatra. Međutim, nikoga nije bilo tu osim moja dva psa, a oni su prosto grickali svoja stopala. Osvrnula sam se. Nikog nije bilo tu. Pa sam pomislila, u redu, to je samo moja mašta. Ali osećaj je samo postajao gori i počela sam da osećam pritisak u grudima, nalik onom osećaju kad dobijete loše vesti. Ali počela sam da tonem dublje i dublje i gotovo u bolovima.
And over the course of that week, this feeling got worse and worse, and I started to become convinced that something was there in my little guest house, haunting me.
A tokom te nedelje, ovo osećanje se sve više pogoršavalo, te sam postala ubeđena da postoji nešto u mojoj gostinskoj kućici što me je proganjalo.
And I started to hear these sounds, this "whoosh," kind of whisper, like something passing through me. I called my best friend, Claire, and said, "I know this is going to sound crazy, but, um ... I think there's a ghost in my house, and I need to get rid of it." And she said -- she's very open-minded -- and she said, "I don't think you're crazy. I think you just need to do a cleansing ritual."
Te sam počela da čujem zvukove, taj nekakav šapat nalik na "šuš", kao da je nešto prolazilo kroz mene. Nazvala sam moju najbolju prijateljicu Kler i rekla: "Znam da će da zvuči blesavo, ali, hm... mislim da imam duha u kući i moram da ga se rešim." A ona je rekla - veoma je otvorenog uma - te je rekla: "Mislim da nisi luda. Mislim da ti je samo potreban ritual pročišćenja."
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
"So get some sage and burn it, and tell it to go away."
"Dakle, nabavi žalfiju i spali je i reci mu da nestane."
So I said, "OK," and I went and I bought sage. I had never done this before, so I set the sage on fire, waved it about, and said, "Go away! This is my house! I live here. You don't live here!" But the feeling stayed. Nothing got better. And then I started to think, OK, well now this thing is probably just laughing at me, because it hasn't left, and I probably just look like this impotent, powerless thing that couldn't get it to go away.
Pa sam rekla: "U redu", i otišla sam i kupila žalfiju. Nikad ovo ranije nisam radila, pa sam zapalila žalfiju, promahala njom i rekla: "Nestani! Ovo je moja kuća! Ja živim ovde. Ti ne živiš ovde!" Međutim, osećaj je ostao. Nije bilo poboljšanja. Pa sam počela da razmišljam, u redu, ova stvar mi se verovatno samo smeje jer nije otišla i ja verovatno izgledam poput bednog, nemoćnog bića koje ga nije moglo najuriti.
So every day I'd come home and you guys, this feeling got so bad that -- I mean, I'm laughing at it now -- but I would sit there in bed and cry every night. And the feeling on my chest got worse and worse. It was physically painful. And I even went to a psychiatrist and tried to get her to prescribe me medicine, and she wouldn't just because I don't have schizophrenia, OK.
Dakle, svaki dan bih došla kući i, ljudi, ovo osećanje se toliko pogoršalo da - mislim, sad mi je smešno - ali sedela bih u krevetu i plakala svake noći. A osećanje u grudima se sve više pogoršavalo. Bilo je fizički bolno. I pošla sam kod psihijatrice i pokušala sam da je navedem da mi prepiše lekove, a ona nije htela, samo zato što nemam šizofreniju, u redu.
(Laughter) So finally I got on the internet, and I Googled "hauntings." And I came upon this forum of ghost hunters. But these were a special kind of ghost hunters -- they were skeptics. They believed that every case of ghosts that they had investigated so far had been explained away by science. And I was like, "OK, smart guys, this is what's happening to me, and if you have an explanation for me, I would love to hear it."
(Smeh) Pa sam konačno pošla na internet i proguglala "proganjanja". I naišla sam na forum lovaca na duhove. Ali to je bila naročita vrsta lovaca na duhove - bili su skeptici. Verovali su da je svaki slučaj s duhovima koji su do sad istraživali naučno objašnjiv. A ja sam bila u fazonu: "U redu, pametnjakovići, evo šta mi se dešava i ako imate objašnjenje, volela bih da ga čujem."
And one of them said, "OK. Um, have you heard of carbon monoxide poisoning?"
A jedan od njih je rekao: "U redu. Hm, da li si čula za trovanje ugljen-monoksidom?"
And I said, "Yeah. Like, gas poisoning?"
A ja sam rekla: "Da. Poput trovanja plinom?"
Carbon monoxide poisoning is when you have a gas leak leaking into your home. I looked it up, and the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning include a pressure on your chest, auditory hallucinations -- whoosh -- and an unexplained feeling of dread. So that night, I called the gas company. I said, "I have an emergency. I need you to come out. I don't want to get into the story now, but I need you to come out."
Trovanje ugljen-monoksidom se dešava kada vam curi plin u vašem domu. Proverila sam to i simptomi trovanja ugljen-monoksidom uključuju pritisak u grudima, zvučne halucinacije - šuš - i neobjašnjivo osećanje straha. Pa sam te noći nazvala plinsku firmu. Rekla sam: "Hitno je. Morate da dođete. Ne želim trenutno da ulazim u priču, ali potrebno mi je da dođete.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
They came out. I said, "I suspect a gas leak." They brought their carbon monoxide detector, and the man said, "It's a really good thing that you called us tonight, because you could have been dead very soon."
Došli su. Rekla sam: "Sumnjam da mi curi plin." Doneli su detektor ugljen-monoksida i čovek je rekao: "Zaista je dobro što si nas večeras pozvala jer si mogla uskoro da budeš mrtva."
Thirty-seven percent of Americans believe in haunted houses, and I wonder how many of them have been in one and how many of them have been in danger.
U uklete kuće veruje 37 procenata Amerikanaca i pitam se koliko njih je bilo u ukletoj kući, a koliko njih je bilo u opasnosti.
So that haunting story has led me to my job. I'm an investigator, and I'm an investigator in two senses: I'm an investigative journalist, and I'm also an investigator of the claims of the paranormal and claims of the spiritual. And that means a few things. Sometimes that means that I'm pretending to need an exorcism so I can get -- yes, that's right! -- so I can go to an exorcist and see if he's using gimmicks or psychological tricks to try to convince someone that they're possessed. Sometimes that means I'm going undercover in a fringe group which I report on for a podcast that I co-host. And I've done over 70 investigations like this with my co-host, Ross. I would love to tell you that nine times out of 10, science wins, saves the day, it's all explained. That's not true. The truth is, 10 times out of 10, science wins, it saves the day.
Pa me je ta ukleta priča dovela do mog posla. Ja sam istražiteljka, i istražiteljka sam na dva načina: istraživačka sam novinarka i takođe istražujem tvrdnje o paranormalnom i tvrdnje o spiritualnom. A to znači nekoliko stvari. Ponekad to znači da se pretvaram da mi je potreban egzorcizam kako bih mogla - da, to je tačno! - kako bih mogla da pođem do egzorciste i proverim da li obmanjuje ili koristi psihološke trikove kako bi ubedio nekoga da je posednut. Ponekad to znači da u tajnosti prilazim marginalizovanim grupama o čemu izveštavam u audio izveštajima čija sam kovoditeljka. I obavila sam preko 70 istraga, poput ove sa mojim kovoditeljem Rosom. Volela bih da vam kažem da u devet od 10 slučajeva nauka pobeđuje, spašava dan, sve je objašnjeno. To nije tačno. Istina je da u 10 od 10 puta nauka pobeđuje, spašava dan.
(Applause)
(Aplauz)
And that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a mystery. Of course there are mysteries, but a mystery is a mystery. It is not a ghost.
A to ne znači da ne postoji nešto kao misterija. Naravno da postoje misterije, ali misterija je misterija. Nije duh.
Now, I believe there are two kinds of truth, and it's taken me a while to get to this place, but I think this is right, so hear me out. I think there is outer truth and there's inner truth. So if you say to me, "There was a man named Jesus and he once existed," that's outer truth, right? And we can go and look at the historical record. We can determine whether that seems to be true. And I would argue, it does seem to be true. If you say, "Jesus rose from the dead," -- ooh, trickier.
Sad, verujem da postoje dve vrste istine, i trebalo mi je neko vreme da to shvatim, ali mislim da je tako, zato poslušajte me. Mislim da postoje spoljne istine i postoje unutrašnje istine. Pa, ako mi kažete: "Bio je čovek po imenu Isus i on je nekad postojao", to je spoljna istina, zar ne? I možemo poći i proveriti u istorijskim zapisima. Možemo da odredimo da li se to čini istinitim. I rekla bih da se čini istinitim. Ako kažete: "Isus je ustao iz mrtvih" - uh, to je zeznutije.
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
I would say that's an outer-truth claim, because he physically rose or he didn't. I'm not going to get into whether he rose or he didn't, but I would say that's an outer-truth claim. It happened or it didn't happen. But if you say, "I don't care whether he rose from the dead. It's symbolically important to me, and that metaphor is so meaningful, so purposeful to me, and I'm not going to try to persuade you of it," now you've moved it from outer truth to inner truth, from science to art. And I think we have a tendency to not be clear about this, to try to move our inner truths to outer truths, or to not be fair about it to each other, and when people are telling us their inner truths, to try to make them defend them by outer-truth standards.
Rekla bih da je to tvrdnja o spoljnjoj istini jer je fizički ustao ili nije. Neću ulaziti u to da li je ustao ili nije, ali bih rekla da je to tvrdnja o spoljnoj istini. Desilo se ili nije. Ali ako kažete: "Nije me briga da li je ustao iz mrtvih. Važno mi je simbolički i ta metafora je toliko značajna, toliko smislena za mene i neću pokušavati da te ubedim u nju", sada ste se pomerili od spoljne ka unutrašnjoj istini, od nauke do umetnosti. I mislim da imamo tendenciju da ne budemo jasni povodom ovoga, povodom pokušaja pomeranja naših unutrašnjih istina ka spolja ili da ne budemo međusobno pošteni po tom pitanju, i kada nam ljudi govore svoje unutrašnje istine, da pokušamo da ih nateramo da ih brane po standardima spoljnih istina.
So I'm talking here about outer truth, about objective things. And there was an objective reality in my haunted house, right? Now that I've told you about the gas leak, I doubt a single person here would be like, "I still think there was a ghost, too" --
Dakle, ovde govorim o spoljnim istinama, o objektivnim stvarima. A postojala je objektivna stvarnost u mojoj ukletoj kući, zar ne? Sad kad sam vam rekla za curenje plina, sumnjam da će ijedna osoba biti u fazonu: "I dalje mislim da je postojao i duh" -
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
because as soon as we have these scientific explanations, we know to give up the ghost. We use these things as stopgaps for things that we can't explain. We don't believe them because of evidence; we believe them because of a lack of evidence.
jer čim imamo naučna objašnjenja, odustajemo od duha. Koristimo to kao privremena merila za ono što ne možemo da objasnimo. Ne verujemo u njih zbog dokaza; verujemo u njih zbog nedostatka dokaza.
So there is a group in Los Angeles called the Independent Investigations Group, or the IIG, and they do great work. They'll give a $10,000 prize to anyone who can show, under scientific conditions, that they have a paranormal ability. No one's done it yet, but they've had a couple people who claim that they were clairaudients, which means that they can hear voices either from the great beyond or they can read minds. And they had one person who was very sincere, who believed that he could read minds. So they set up a test with him, and this is the way it always works. The group says, "OK, we have a protocol, we have a way to scientifically test this. Do you agree with it?" The person says yes. Then they test it. It's very important that both sides agree. They did that, they tested him. They said, "OK, you know what? You weren't able to predict what Lisa was thinking. It matched up about the same as chance. Looks like you don't have the power."
Dakle, postoji grupa u Los Anđelesu, nazivaju se Nezavisna istraživačka grupa ili NIG, i obavljaju sjajan posao. Nude nagradu od 10.000$ svakome ko pokaže, pod naučnim okolnostima, da ima paranormalnu sposobnost. Niko to nije uspeo, ali su imali nekoliko ljudi koji su tvrdili da imaju natprirodan sluh, što znači da mogu da čuju glasove bilo iz velike udaljenosti ili mogu da čitaju misli. I imali su jednu osobu koja je bila veoma iskrena, koja je verovala da može da čita misli. Pa su postavili test sa njim, a ovako to uvek funkcioniše. Grupa kaže: "U redu, imamo protokol, imamo način da ovo naučno testiramo. Slažete li se s tim?" Osoba kaže da. Potom ga testiraju. Veoma je važno da obe strane pristanu. Uradili su to, testirali su ga. Rekli su: "U redu, znate šta? Niste bili u stanju da predvidite o čemu je Lisa razmišljala. Podudarnost je bila kao kod nagađanja. Izgleda da nemate moći."
And that gave them the opportunity to compassionately sit down with him and have a very difficult discussion, which basically amounted to, "Hey, we know you're sincere, and what that means is, you do hear something in your head."
A to im je pružilo priliku da saosećajno sednu s njim i obave veoma težak razgovor, koji se u suštini svodio na: "Hej, znamo da si iskren, a to znači da zaista čuješ nešto u glavi."
And that guy got to make the very difficult decision, but really the life-changing decision about whether to go get help. We're actually helping people to make these connections that maybe before seemed like otherworldly explanations, help draw us into reality and maybe change our lives for the better.
Ali tog dana, taj momak je doneo veoma tešku odluku, ali zaista odluku koja mu je promenila život, o tome da potraži pomoć. Zapravo pomažemo ljudima da povežu konce koji su im se ranije možda činili poput onostranih objašnjenja, pomažu da nas dovuku u stvarnost i možda nam promene živote na bolje.
Now, on the other hand, maybe one time it'll turn out to be true. Maybe we'll find out there are ghosts, and holy shit, it will be the best thing! And every time I do one of these investigations, I still get so excited, and I'm like 75 into them, and still I swear on number 76, I'm going to be like, "This is the one!"
Sad, s druge strane, možda će se jednom ispostaviti tačnim. Možda ćemo otkriti da postoje duhovi i, sveca mu, biće to nešto najbolje! I svaki put kad obavljam jedno od ovih istraživanja, i dalje sam veoma uzbuđena i u fazonu, 75 je iza mene, i dalje vam se kunem kad stignem do 76, biću u fazonu: "To je to!"
(Laughter)
(Smeh)
Maybe I'm just eternally optimistic, but I hope I never lose this hope, and I invite you to take this same attitude when people share their outer beliefs with you. When talking about testable claims, respect them enough to ask these good questions. Challenge and see how you can examine them together, because there's this idea that you can't respect a belief and still challenge it, but that's not true. When we jiggle the lock, when we test the claim, we're saying, OK, I respect you, I'm listening to what you're saying, I'm going to test it out with you. We've all had that experience where you're telling someone something, and they're like, "Oh, that's really interesting, yeah," you know you're being had. But when someone says, "Really? Huh. Sounds a little sketchy to me, but I'm listening," you at least know you're being engaged and respected. And that's the kind of attitude we should have with these claims. That's showing someone that you care what they're saying. That's respect.
Možda sam prosto večni optimista, ali se nadam da neću izgubiti ovu nadu, i pozivam vas da zauzmete isti stav kada ljudi dele sa vama svoja ubeđenja u spoljne istine. Kada govore o proverljivim tvrdnjama, poštujte ih dovoljno da upitate ova dobra pitanja. Izazovite ih i proverite kako možete zajedno da ih istražite jer postoji zamisao da ne možete da poštujete verovanje i da ga i dalje dovodite u pitanje, ali to nije tačno. Kada tresemo katanac, kada testiramo tvrdnju, govorimo, u redu, poštujem te, slušam šta govoriš, zajedno ćemo to testirati. Svi smo imali slično iskustvo, kada govorite nekome nešto, a oni su u fazonu: "Oh, to je zaista zanimljivo, da", znate da vas drže za budalu. Ali kad neko kaže: "Zaista? Ha. Zvuči mi malčice nategnuto, ali slušam", bar znate da se bave vama i da vas poštuju. A takav bismo stav trebali imati kod ovih tvrdnji. To pokazuje nekome da marite za to što govore. To je poštovanje.
Now, yes, most of these searches will come up empty, but that's how all of science works. Every cure for cancer so far has not panned out, but we don't stop looking, for two reasons. Because number one, the answer matters. Whether it's looking at the afterlife or the paranormal or the cure for cancer, it all amounts to the same question: How long will we be here?
Sad, da, većina ovih pretraga će da bude uzaludna, ali tako nauka funkcioniše. Svaki lek za rak se do sad nije isplatio, ali ne prestajemo da tražimo iz dva razloga. Zato što, pod jedan: odgovor je važan. Bilo da proveravamo zagrobni život ili paranormalno ili lek za rak, sve se svodi na isto pitanje: koliko dugo ćemo da budemo ovde?
And two, because looking for the truth, being open-minded, and being willing to be wrong and to change your whole worldview is awe-inspiring.
I, pod dva: zato što traganje za istinom, stanje otovrenog uma i spremnost da ne budemo u pravu i da u potpunosti promenimo pogled na svet izazivaju strahopoštovanje.
I still get excited at ghost stories every single time. I still consider that every group I join might be right, and I hope I never lose that hope. Let's all never lose that hope, because searching for what's out there helps us understand what's in here. And also, please have a carbon monoxide detector in your home.
I dalje se svaki put uzbudim zbog priče o duhovima. I dalje smatram da svaka grupa kojoj se pridružim možda jeste u pravu i nadam se da neću izgubiti tu nadu. Hajde da svi zadržimo tu nadu jer traganje za onim što postoji napolju pomaže nam da razumemo ono što je unutra. I takođe, molim vas, držite detektor ugljen-monoksida u vašem domu.
Thank you.
Hvala vam.
(Applause)
(Aplauz)