Caitlin Quattromani: The election of 2016 felt different. Political conversations with our family and friends uncovered a level of polarization that many of us had not previously experienced. People who we always thought were reasonable and intelligent seemed like strangers. We said to ourselves, "How could you think that? I thought you were smart."
凯特琳 · 奎塔罗马尼(CQ): 2016 年的选举感觉不太一样。 与我们的家人和朋友进行的政治对话 暴露出的两极分化的程度 是我们很多人从未经历过的。 我们一直认为理性聪慧的人 好像变成了陌生人。 我们心里说:“你怎能那么想? 我以为你很聪明呢。”
Lauran Arledge: Caitlin and I met in the summer of 2011, and we bonded around being working moms and trying to keep our very energetic boys busy. And we soon found out we had almost everything in common. From our love of Colorado to our love of sushi, there wasn't much we didn't agree on. We also discovered that we share a deep love of this country and feel a responsibility to be politically active. But no one's perfect --
劳伦 · 阿利奇(LA): 我与凯特琳在 2011 年夏相遇。 我们很合得来, 因我们同时身为在职妈妈, 也在努力让我们 精力充沛的儿子们忙碌起来。 我们很快发现 彼此的共同之处不胜枚举。 从对科罗拉多州的喜爱 到我们对寿司的热爱, 几乎没有什么喜好不一致的地方。 我们还发现 对方也一样深爱这个国家 并认为有责任积极参与政治。 但是,没有人是完美的——
(Laughter) and I soon found out two disappointing things about Caitlin. First, she hates camping.
(笑声) 我很快发现 凯特琳有两点让我失望。 首先,她不喜欢野营。
CQ: I think camping is the worst.
CQ:我认为野营很糟糕。
LA: So there would not be any joint camping trips in our future. The second thing is that she's politically active all right -- as a conservative.
LA:所以我们的未来 不会有任何机会一起去野营。 第二件事就是, 她的确政治积极—— 却是一个保守派。
CQ: I may hate camping, but I love politics. I listen to conservative talk radio just about every day, and I've volunteered for a few different conservative political campaigns.
CQ:我可能讨厌露营, 但我热爱政治。 我几乎每天都听保守派的谈话广播, 而且我也给几个不同的 保守派政治竞选做过志愿者。
LA: And I'd say I'm a little to the left, like all the way to the left.
LA:而我会说—— 我有点儿左, 就是那种左到底的左。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
I've always been interested in politics. I was a political science major, and I worked as a community organizer and on a congressional campaign.
我一直对政治感兴趣。 我是政治专业的, 我当过社区组织者 也为国会选举工作过。
CQ: So as Lauran and I were getting to know each other, it was right in the middle of that 2012 presidential campaign, and most of our early political conversations were really just based in jokes and pranks. So as an example, I would change Lauran's computer screen saver to a picture of Mitt Romney, or she would put an Obama campaign magnet on the back of my car.
CQ:随着我和劳伦加深相互了解 那正值是 2012 年的总统大选期间。 我们之前的大部分政治对话 真的都只是笑话和恶作剧。 比如,我会把劳伦的电脑屏保 改成米特 · 罗姆尼的照片 而她会把奥巴马选举磁铁 粘在我车后面。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
LA: Car, not minivan.
LA:轿车,不是小客车。
CQ: But over time, those conversations grew more serious and really became a core of our friendship. And somewhere along the line, we decided we didn't want to have any topic be off limits for discussion, even if those topics pushed us way outside of our friendship comfort zone.
CQ:但是随着时间的推移, 这些对话越来越严肃, 真的变成了我们友谊的核心。 然后有一天, 我们决定即使有些话题 会把我们的友谊推到舒适区之外, 也不会让任何话题 成为我们之间不能讨论的。
LA: And so to most of us, political conversations are a zero-sum game. There's a winner and there's a loser. We go for the attack and we spot a weakness in someone's argument. And here's the important part: we tend to take every comment or opinion that's expressed as a personal affront to our own values and beliefs. But what if changed the way we think about these conversations? What if, in these heated moments, we chose dialogue over debate? When we engage in dialogue, we flip the script. We replace our ego and our desire to win with curiosity, empathy and a desire to learn. Instead of coming from a place of judgment, we are genuinely interested in the other person's experiences, their values and their concerns.
LA:对我们大多数人来说, 政治对话是一场零和游戏: 一个赢家,一个输家。 我们进攻, 我们找别人论点中的弱点。 而这是一个重要的部分: 我们倾向于把 每一个发表的评论或意见 当作对我们个人价值观和 信念的人身攻击。 但是,如果改变我们对 这些谈话的看法会怎样呢? 如果在这些激烈的时刻, 我们选择对话而不是争辩呢? 当我们进行对话时, 情况就大不相同了。 我们用好奇、同情和学习欲望 取代自我价值感 和获胜欲望, 不再从评判的角度出发, 相反我们由衷感兴趣的是 对方的经历、 他们的价值观和他们的担忧。
CQ: You make it sound so simple, Lauran. But getting to that place of true dialogue is hard, especially when we're talking about politics. It is so easy to get emotionally fired up about issues that we're passionate about, and we can let our ego get in the way of truly hearing the other person's perspective. And in this crazy political climate we're in right now, unfortunately, we're seeing an extreme result of those heated political conversations, to the point where people are willing to walk away from their relationships. In fact, Rasmussen released a poll earlier this year that said 40 percent of people reported that the 2016 election negatively impacted a personal relationship, and the Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience tells us that people tend to feel their way to their beliefs rather than using reasoning, and that when reason and emotion collide, it's emotion that invariably wins. So no wonder it's hard to talk about these issues.
CQ:你把它说得如此简单,劳伦。 但是做到那样的真正对话太难了。 特别是当我们谈论政治的时候, 对于我们热衷的问题, 情绪很容易激动起来。 我们自己的观点会阻碍 真正听取他人的观点。 而在当前这个疯狂的政治环境下, 很不幸,我们看到的是 那些激烈政治对话 带来的极端后果。 激烈到人们愿意为之 结束一段关系。 事实上,拉斯穆森 今年早些时候发布的一项调查显示 40% 的人说 2016 年选举 对他们的个人关系产生了负面影响; 《认知神经科学杂志》告诉我们 人们倾向于摸索得到自己的观点, 而非使用逻辑推理, 而当理性和感性碰撞时, 感性总是获胜。 难怪很难理性探讨这些问题。
LA: And look, we're just two regular friends who happen to think very differently about politics and the role that government should play in our lives. And I know we were all taught not to talk about politics because it's not polite, but we need to be able to talk about it, because it's important to us and it's a part of who we are.
LA:你看, 我们只是两个普通朋友, 碰巧对政治和政府 在我们生活中扮演的角色 有着非常不同的想法。 而且我知道我们都被教导说: 不要谈论政治,因为那不礼貌。 但我们需要能够谈论政治, 因为这对我们很重要 而且它是我们本质的一部分。
CQ: We have chosen to avoid political debate and instead engage in dialogue in order to maintain what we fondly call our bipartisan friendship.
CQ:我们选择避免政治辩论, 而是进行对话 以维持我们所戏称的 两党友谊。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
LA: And this election and all of the craziness that has followed has given us several opportunities to practice this skill.
LA:这次选举以及随之而来的疯狂 给了我们很多机会来练习这个技巧。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Let's start with January and the Women's March. At this point, you can probably guess which one of us participated.
从一月和女权游行运动开始说吧。 到现在,你大概可以猜到 我俩谁去参加了。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
CQ: Oh, the Women's March. I was annoyed and irritated that entire day, really because of two things. Number one, the name "Women's March." As a conservative woman, the march's platform of issues didn't represent me, and that's OK, but hearing it talked about as this demonstration of sisterhood and solidarity for all women didn't ring true for me. The other piece was the timing of the event, the fact that it was the day after the presidential inauguration. It felt like we weren't even giving the new administration to actually do anything, good or bad, before people felt the need to demonstrate against it.
CQ:哦,女权游行运动。 那一整天我都因为两件事 变得很烦躁和恼怒。 第一,是“女权游行运动” 这个名字。 作为保守派的一名女性, 这个问题的游行平台不代表我, 那也没什么。 但是听到它被说成 所有女性的姐妹情谊 和团结一致的表现, 在我看来并非如此。 另一件事, 就是事件发生的时间, 那是新总统就职后的第二天。 这感觉我们甚至没给新政府任何机会 去落实任何事情,无论好坏, 人们就觉得需要赶快去反对了。
LA: And under normal circumstances, I would agree with Caitlin. I think an administration does deserve the benefit of the doubt. But in this case, I was marching to show my concern that a man with such a poor track record with women and other groups had been elected as president. I had to be part of the collective voice that wanted to send a clear message to the new president that we did not accept or condone his behavior or rhetoric during the election.
LA:在正常情况下 我会同意凯特琳的说法。 我认为政府需要从质疑中有所收获。 但这一次, 我参加游行以表达我的担忧: 一个对女性和其他群体 有这样不良记录的人 被选为总统。 我必须成为集体声音的一部分, 向新总统发出 一个明确的信息—— 即我们不接受或宽恕 他选举期间的行为或言论。
CQ: So I'm already feeling kind of aggravated, and then I see this Facebook from Lauran pop up in my social media feed.
CQ:我已经感觉到情况有点恶化了, 然后马上在脸书的朋友推送里 就看到了劳伦的这条状态。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Seeing Lauran's sons at the march and holding signs took it to a new level for me, and not in a good way, because I know these boys, I love these boys, and I didn't feel they were old enough to understand what the march stood for. I didn't understand why Lauran would choose to have them participate in that way, and I assumed it wasn't a choice that the boys made for themselves. But I also know Lauran. You're an incredible mom who would never exploit your boys in any way, so I had to stop and check myself. I had a decision to make. I could take the easy way out and just choose not to say anything to her, and instead just kind of simmer in my frustration, or I could ask her to learn more about her motivations.
看到劳伦的儿子们 在游行里,拿着标语牌 对我来说这件事变严重了, 而且是往坏的方向升级。 因为我认识这些男孩, 我喜欢这些男孩子, 但我觉得他们的年龄 还不足以理解 那场游行代表着什么。 我不明白为什么劳伦会选择 让他们那样参与游行, 而且我假定这不是男孩们 自己做出的选择。 但是,我也了解劳伦。 你是一个超棒的妈妈, 绝不会以任何方式 利用你的孩子。 所以我必须停下并审视自己。 我需要做个决定。 我可以采取简单的方法 选择什么都不对她说, 只是抓狂地憋着, 或者我可以直接问她 从而更多地了解她的动机。
LA: And I shared with Caitlin that we actually started talking about the March weeks before we participated. And my boys were curious as to why the event was being organized, and this led to some very interesting family conversations. We talked about how in this country, we have the right and the privilege to demonstrate against something we don't agree with, and my husband shared with them why he thought it was so important that men joined the Women's March. But the most significant reason we marched as a family is that it was a way for us to honor my parents' legacy. They spent their careers working to defend the rights of some of our most vulnerable citizens, and they passed these values down to me and my brother, and we want to do the same with our sons.
LA:我告诉凯特琳 实际上在参加游行的几周前, 我们就已经对其展开了讨论。 我的孩子们好奇 为什么会组织这个活动, 这也引发了一系列 非常有趣的家庭对话。 我们谈到在这个国家 我们有权利和特权 去表达我们对不赞成之事的反对, 而我的丈夫与他们分享了 为什么他认为 男性加入女权游行运动是如此重要。 但我们作为一个家庭参加游行的 最重要的一个理由是 这是对我父母传承的尊重。 他们用尽自己的职业生涯 在捍卫我们最弱势公民的权利, 他们把这些价值观 传递给了我和我的兄弟, 之后我们也想将其 传递给我们的儿子们。
CQ: After talking to Lauran, I really understood not only why she felt it was so important to march, but why she had her boys with her. And frankly, my assumptions were wrong. It was the boys who wanted to march after they talked about the issues as a family.
CQ:在和劳伦谈过之后, 我真的不仅明白了 为什么她觉得游行很重要, 而且明白了为什么 她的儿子们与她一起参与了游行。 坦率地说, 我之前的假设是错误的。 在他们全家讨论这个问题之后, 是男孩子们自己想要参加游行。
But what's most important about this example is to think about the alternative. Had Lauran and I not talked about it, I would have been annoyed with her, and it could have resulted in an undercurrent of disrespect in our friendship. But by asking Lauran questions, it allowed us to use dialogue to get to a place of true understanding. Now, to be clear, our conversation didn't really change my mind about how I felt about the March, but it absolutely changed my thinking around why she brought her boys with her. And for both of us, that dialogue allowed us to understand each other's perspective about the Women's March even though we disagreed.
但是这个例子最重要的是 去思考另一种可能性。 如果劳伦和我没有就这件事谈开, 我就会一直感觉她很令人烦扰, 而且可能会导致我们友谊之中 一股不尊重的暗涌。 但是通过询问劳伦, 我们能利用对话实现真正的理解。 不过我要说清楚, 我们的谈话并没有真正改变 我对这场游行的看法, 但谈话绝对完全改变了我对 她为什么带着孩子们去的想法。 而对于我们俩来说, 那对话让我们明白了 彼此对女权游行运动的看法, 即使观点并不统一。
LA: The second topic that challenged our ability to engage in dialogue was around my need to understand how Caitlin could vote for Trump.
LA:挑战我们 参与对话能力的第二件事 是我想要理解对于 凯特琳怎么能投票给特朗普 这件事的需求。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
Caitlin is a successful professional woman who is deeply caring and compassionate, and the Caitlin I know would never excuse any man from talking about women the way that Trump did during the campaign. It was hard for me to reconcile these two things in my mind. How could you overlook the things that were said?
凯特琳是一位成功的职业女性, 深切关怀他人并富有同情心。 我所认识的凯特琳 绝不会原谅 像特朗普在竞选中 那样谈论女性的任何人。 在我脑海中 很难调和这两件事情, 你怎么能对他过说的话 视而不见?
CQ: So I'm guessing I may not be the only one here that thought we didn't have the best choices for the presidential election last year.
CQ:所以我想不只是我一个人 认为去年总统选举不存在最佳选择。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
The Republican candidate who I did support didn't make it out of the primary, so when it came time to vote, I had a decision to make. And you're right, there were some terrible things that came out during the Trump campaign, so much so that I almost decided to just abstain rather than voting for president, something I had never even considered doing before. But ultimately, I did vote for Donald Trump, and for me it was really a vote for party over person, especially recognizing how important that presidential pick is on influencing our judicial branch. But I shared with Lauran it was a decision I really wrestled with, and not one that I made lightly.
我所支持的共和党候选人 在初选就被淘汰了, 所以到了投票的时候, 我必须做出选择。 你没错, 在特朗普竞选期间 不少很糟糕的事情都被爆出来, 以至于我几乎决定就投弃权票, 就不选总统了。 这是我以前从未考虑过的事情。 但是最终,我确实 投了唐纳德 · 特朗普。 对我来说,这选择是 针对党派的,而非个人, 尤其是认识到总统选举 对影响我们司法部门的重要性。 但是我对劳伦说了 这个决定真的让我非常纠结, 它不是我轻易就做出的决定。
LA: And so after our conversation, I was struck by a few things. First, I had fallen victim to my own confirmation bias. Because of my strong feelings about Trump, I had given all Trump voters the same attributes, and none of them forgiving.
LA:所以在我们谈过之后, 我对几件事感到震惊。 首先,我成了确认偏误的受害者。 由于我对特朗普的强烈感受, 我赋予所有特朗普选民相同的属性, 而且他们中一个都不能原谅。
(Laughter) But knowing Caitlin, I started to ask questions. What were Trump voters really concerned about? Under all the divisive language, what was really going on? What could we learn about ourselves and our country from this unlikely event? I also learned that we shared a deep disappointment in this election, and that we have growing concerns about our two-party political system.
(笑声) 但是因为了解凯特琳, 我开始有疑问。 特朗普的选民真正关心的是什么? 在那么多分裂语言的背后 究竟发生了什么? 从这个不太可能发生的事件中 关于自己和自己的国家, 我们学到了什么? 我还了解到我们全都 对这次选举感到非常失望, 并且对我们的两党政治制度 越来越担忧。
But the most important thing about this conversation is that it happened at all. Without an open and honest dialogue between the two of us, this election would have been the elephant in the room for the next four years, pun intended.
但关于这次谈话, 最重要的是:它发生了。 如果没有我们两人之间 坦率诚恳的对话, 这次选举就会成为未来四年 房间里的大象。 (大家都知道但选择避而不谈的问题)
(Laughter)
(笑声)
CQ: So, look --
CQ:所以,你看 ——
(Applause)
(掌声)
So, look -- we know it takes work to get past the difficult, frustrating and sometimes emotional parts of having discussions about issues like the Women's March or why your friend may have voted for a candidate that you can't stand. But we need to have these conversations. Our ability to move past political debate into true dialogue is a critical skill we should all be focused on right now, especially with the people that we care about the most.
你看,我们知道需要付出努力, 克服随之而来的困难、沮丧, 有时候甚至是很情绪化的部分, 例如在讨论女权游行运动之类问题时, 或者讨论你的朋友为什么会投票给 让你无法忍受的候选人时。 但是我们需要进行这些对话。 我们不再政治辩论 而是进行真正对话的能力 是现在大家都该关注的重要技能, 特别是与我们最关心的人之间。
LA: And it's not just as adults that we need to bottle this behavior. It's critical that we do it for our children as well. My sons were inundated with this election. We were listening to the news in the morning, and they were having conversations with their friends at school. I was concerned that they were picking up so much polarizing misinformation, and they were growing really fearful of a Trump presidency. Then one day, after the election, I was taking my sons to school, and my younger son, completely out of the blue, said, "Mom, we don't know anybody who voted for Trump, right?"
LA:不只是作为成年人 要养成这种行为习惯, 对于我们的孩子来说 这也是至关重要的。 我的儿子们 完全被这次选举包围。 我们早上听新闻, 他们在学校里和朋友们也会聊。 我担心他们会吸收 很多极端化的错误信息, 也担心他们会变得恐惧 特朗普的统治。 大选之后, 有一天我送儿子们上学, 我的小儿子,带着彻底的失望, 说:“妈妈,我们认识的人里 没有投给特朗普的,对吧?”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
And I paused and I took a deep breath. "Yes, we do."
我顿了一下,深吸一口气。 “有的。”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
"The Quattromanis." And his response was so great. He kind of got this confused look on his face, and he said ... "But we love them."
“是奎塔罗马尼家的人。” 他的回答太棒了—— 他脸上带着点困惑,说: “但我们爱他们。”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
And I answered, "Yes, we do."
我回答说:“是的,我们爱他们。”
(Laughter)
(笑声)
And then he said, "Why would they vote for him?" And I remember stopping and thinking that it was really important how I answered this question. Somehow, I had to honor our own family values and show respect for our friends. So I finally said, "They think that's the right direction for this country." And before I had even gotten the whole sentence out, he had moved on to the soccer game he was going to play at recess.
然后他说:“他们为什么要投给他呢?” 我记得我停下来想: 如何回答这个问题很重要。 不管怎样,我必须 尊重自己的家庭观念, 同时也要尊重朋友。 所以我最后说: “他们认为,对于这个国家 那是正确的方向。” 还没等我把整句话说完, 他已经开始说起 课间休息时的足球比赛了。
CQ: So life with boys.
CQ:和男孩们的生活啊。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
So what Lauran and I have discovered through our bipartisan friendship is the possibility that lives in dialogue. We have chosen to be genuinely curious about each other's ideas and perspectives and to be willing to listen to one another even when we disagree. And by putting aside our ego and our preconceived ideas, we've opened ourselves up to limitless learning. And perhaps most importantly for our relationship, we have made the commitment to each other that our friendship is way more important than either of us being right or winning a conversation about politics. So today, we're asking you to have a conversation. Talk to someone outside of your political party who might challenge your thinking. Make an effort to engage with someone with whom you might typically avoid a political conversation. But remember, the goal isn't to win, the goal is to listen and to understand and to be open to learning something new.
劳伦和我通过我们两党友谊发现的是 对话中的可能性。 我们选择做到 对彼此的想法和观点 保持真正的好奇—— 即使不一致,也愿意相互倾听。 抛开我们的自我和先入为主的想法, 我们敞开心扉,不断学习。 也许对我们的关系来说, 最为重要的是 我们相互承诺—— 比起谁对谁错, 或是谁赢了一场政治对话, 我们之间的友谊要重要得多。 所以今天, 我们请你也进行一场谈话。 与可能挑战你想法的 并在你支持的政党之外的人 进行交谈。 努力和某个你经常避免与其 进行政治对话的人 搭建联系。 但要记住, 目标不是要赢谁, 而是要倾听、理解, 以及愿意学习新事物。
LA: So let's go back to election night. As the polls were closing and it became clear that Trump was going to be our new president, I was devastated. I was sad, I was confused, and I'll be honest -- I was angry. And then just before midnight, I received this text message from Caitlin.
LA:让我们回到选举之夜。 随着民意调查的结束, 显然特朗普即将成为 我们的新总统, 我感到非常沮丧, 我很伤心,也很困惑。 说实话——我很生气。 然后,就在午夜之前, 我收到了凯特琳发来的短信:
[I know this is a hard night for you guys. We are thinking of you. Love you.]
[ 我知道这对你们来说 是一个艰难的夜晚。 我们在想你。爱你。]
And where there so easy could have been weeks or months of awkwardness and unspoken hostility, there was this -- an offering of empathy rooted in friendship. And I knew, in that moment, that we would make it through this.
当时的情况很容易变成 数周或数月的尴尬, 以及无言的敌意 可实际发生的是—— 从友谊中萌发的同情。 在那一刻,我知道 我们会迈过这道坎。
CQ: So we must find a way to engage in meaningful conversations that are going to move us forward as a nation, and we can no longer wait for our elected officials to elevate our national discourse.
CQ:所以我们必须找到一种方法 来进行有意义的对话, 这将使我们作为一个国家 共同前进, 我们不能再只是继续等待 当选官员来提上我们的国家进程。
LA: The challenges ahead are going to require all of us to participate in a deeper and more meaningful way ... and it starts with each one of us building connection through dialogue -- in our relationships, our communities and as a country.
LA:未来的挑战 将要求我们所有人 都以更深入且更有意义的方式参与。 它开始于我们每个人 通过对话建立联系—— 在我们的个人关系中, 我们的社区中, 以及在整个国家中。
Thank you.
谢谢。
(Applause)
(掌声)