I'm a contemporary artist and I show in art galleries and museums. I show a number of photographs and films, but I also make television programs, books and some advertising, all with the same concept. And it's about our fixation with celebrity and celebrity culture, and the importance of the image: celebrity is born of photography.
Ja sam savremeni umetnik i izlažem u galerijama i muzejima. Izlažem brojne fotografije i filmove, ali takođe pravim program za televiziju, knjige i nešto reklama, sve sa istom idejom. A to je naša fiksacija za slavne i kulturu slavnih, i važnost slike. Slavna ličnost je rođena na fotografiji.
I'm going to start with how I started with this concept seven years ago, when Princess Diana died. There was a sort of a standstill in Britain the moment of her death, and people decided to mourn her death in a sort of mass way. I was fascinated by this phenomenon, so I wondered: could one erase the image of Diana, actually quite crudely and physically? So, I got a gun and started to shoot at the image of Diana, but I couldn't erase this from my memory and certainly it was not being erased from the public psyche. Momentum was being built. The press wrote about her death in rather, I felt, pornographic ways -- like, "Which bit of artery left which bit of body?" and "How did she die in the back of the car?" -- and I was intrigued by this sort of mass voyeurism, so I made these rather gory images.
Tako da ću početi sa time kako sam počela sa ovim konceptom pre sedam godina, kada je princeza Dajana umrla. Postojala je neka vrsta zastoja u Britaniji tog dana, ili momenta kada je umrla, i ljudi su odlučili da je oplakuju na jedan masovan način. Bila sam fascinirana ovim fenomenom. I upitala sam se: da li bi neko zapravo mogao da obriše sliku Dajane prilično grubo i fizički? Uzela sam pištolj i počela da pucam u sliku Dajane. Ali nisam mogla da izbrišem ovo iz mog pamćenja, i sigurno nije moglo biti izbrisano iz kolektivne psihe. Polet je počeo da se stvara. Štampa je pisala o njenoj smrti na neki, po meni, pornografski način, kao, koja je arterija napustila koje deo tela, i kako je umrla na zadnjem delu automobila. I bila sam intrigirana ovom vrstom masovnog voajerizma. Pa sam napravila ove donekle krvave slike.
I then went on wondering whether I could actually replace her image, so I got a look-alike of Diana and posed her in the right positions and angles and created something that was in, or existed in, the public imagination. So people were wondering: was she going to marry Dodi? Was she in love with him? Was she pregnant? Did she want his baby? Was she pregnant when she died? So I created this image of Diana, Dodi and their imaginary mixed-race child and this image came out, which caused a huge public outcry at the time.
Onda sam počela da se pitam da li bih ustvari mogla da zamenim njen lik. Našla sam osobu koja liči na Dajanu, i postavila je na određenu poziciju pod određenim uglom, i stvorila nešto što je postojalo u mašti javnosti. Ljudi su se pitali, da li će se udati za Dodija? Da li je bila zaljubljena u njega? Da li je bila trudna? Da li je želela njegovu bebu? Da li je bila trudna kada je umrla? Tako da sam stvorila taj lik Dajane, Dodija i njihovog zamišljenog deteta pomešane rase. I ta slika je objavljena, što je izazvalo ogromno negodovanje javnosti u to vreme.
I then went on to make more comments on the media and press imagery, so I started making reference to media imagery -- made it grainy, shot through doorways and so on and so forth -- to titillate the public or the viewer further in terms of trying to make the viewer more aware of their own voyeurism. So, this is an image of Diana looking at Camilla kissing her husband, and this was a sequence of images. And this gets shown in art galleries like this, as a sequence. And similarly with the Di-Dodian baby imagery -- this is another art gallery installation.
Onda sam počela da pravim više komentara o medijima i imidžu štampe. Tako sam počela da se obraćam medijskoj slici - napravila bih zrnastu, uhvaćenu kroz ulaz i tako dalje, da podstaknem publiku ili gledaoca dalje, u smislu pokušavanja da učinim gledaoce svesnijim njihovog sopstvenog voajerizma. Ovo je fotografija gde Dajana gleda Kamilu kako ljubi njenog muža. Ovo je niz fotografija. I ovo se prikazuje u umetničkim galerijama na taj način, kao niz, i slično, sa fotografijom Di - Dodi bebe. Ovo je još jedna instalacija u umetničkoj galeriji.
I'm particularly interested in how you can't rely on your own perception. This is Jane Smith and Jo Bloggs, for instance, but you think it's Camilla and the Queen, and I'm fascinated how what you think is real isn't necessarily real. And the camera can lie, and it makes it very, very easy with the mass bombardment of imagery to tell untruths. So, I continued to work on this project of how photography seduces us and is more interesting to look at than the actual real subject matter. And at the same time, it removes us from the real subject matter,
Posebno sam zainteresovana za to kako se ne možemo osloniti na sopstvenu percepciju. Ovo je Džejn Smit i Džo Blogs, na primer, ali mislite da su Kamila i Kraljica. Fascinirana sam kako ono što mislite da je stvarno nije nužno stvarno, i aparat može da laže. I veoma, veoma je lako govoriti neistinu masovnim bombardovanjem slikama. Nastavila sam da radim na projektu o tome kako nas fotografija zavodi, i zanimljivija je za gledanje nego stvaran predmet stvari. I u isto vreme, sklanja nas od stvarnog subjekta.
and this acts as a sort of titillating thing. So, the photograph becomes this teaser and incites desire and voyeurism; what you can't have, you want more. In the photograph, the real subject doesn't exist so it makes you want that person more. And that is the way, I think, that celebrity magazines work now: the more pictures you see of these celebrities, the more you feel you know them, but you don't know them and you want to know them further.
I ovo postane neka vrsta golicave stvari. Dakle, fotografija postane izazivač i podstiče želju i voajerizam. Ono što ne možete da imate, još više želite. Dakle, u fotografiji, pravi subjekt ne postoji. Tako da čini da želite tu osobu još više. I mislim da je to način na koji časopisi o poznatima danas funkcionišu. Što više fotografija ovih poznatih ličnosti vidite, više osećate da ih znate, ali ne znate ih, i želite više da ih upoznate.
Of course, the Queen goes to her stud often to watch her horses ... watch her horses. (Laughter). And then I was sort of making imagery. In England there's an expression: "you can't imagine the Queen on the loo." So I'm trying to penetrate that. Well, here is the image.
Naravno Kraljica odlazi do staje često da bi gledala svoje konje ... gleda svoje konje. (smeh) Onda sam na neki način pravila slike. U Engleskoj postoji izraz: "Ne možete zamisliti kraljicu u toaletu." Tako da pokušavam da probijem to. Pa, evo je fotografija.
All this imagery was creating a lot of fuss and I was cited as a disgusting artist. The press were writing about this, giving full pages about how terrible this was. Which I found very interesting that it was going full cycle: I was making comments about the press and about how we know facts and information only by media -- because we don't know the real people; very few of us know the real people -- but it was going back into the press and they were publicizing, effectively, my filthy work. So, these are broadsheets, tabloids, debates were being had all about this work, films were being banned before people had actually had the look at the work, politicians were getting involved -- all sorts of things -- great headlines.
Sve ove fotografije su stvarale mnogo pometnje. I bila sam citirana kao odvratna umetnica. Štampa je pisala o ovome, znate, puneći čitave strane o tome kako je to strašno, i bilo mi je vrlo zanimljivo da se napravio pun krug. Komentarisala sam o štampi, i kako znamo činjenice i informacije samo preko medija jer ne znamo prave ljude. Vrlo malo nas zna prave ljude. Ali to se vraćalo u štampu, i oni su objavljivali, efektivno, moj prljavi rad. Novine, tabloidi, debate su govorile o ovome, sve o ovom radu. Filmovi su bili zabranjivani pre nego što su ljudi mogli da pogledaju rad. Političari su počeli da se mešaju. Svakakve stvari, veliki naslovi.
Then suddenly, it started to get on front pages. I was being asked and paid to do front covers. Suddenly I was becoming sort of acceptable, which I found also fascinating. How one moment -- it was disgusting -- journalists would lie to me to get a story or a photograph of me, saying my work was wonderful, and the next minute there were terrible headlines about me. But then this changed suddenly.
Onda je odjednom počelo da stiže na naslovne strane. Pitali su me i plaćali da radim naslovne strane. Odjednom su počeli da me prihvataju, što sam smatrala, znate, takođe fascinantnim. Kako je u jednom momentu to bilo odvratno - novinari su me lagali da bi dobili priču ili moju fotografiju, govoreći da je moj rad sjajan, a sledećeg momenta pojavili bi se strašni naslovi o meni. Ali onda se ovo promenilo, iznenada.
I then started to work for magazines and newspapers. This was, for example, an image that went into Tatler. This was another newspaper image. It was an April fool actually, and to this day some people think it's real. I was sitting next to someone at dinner the other day, and they were saying there's this great image of the Queen sitting outside William Hill. They thought it was real.
Počela sam onda da radim za časopise i novine. Ovo je, na primer, fotografija objavljena u "Tatleru". Ovo je još jedna novinska fotografija. BIla je to prvoaprilska šala ustvari, i do današnjeg dana, neki ljudi misle da je stvarna. Sedela sam pored nekoga za večerom pre neki dan, i govorili su kako postoji ta sjajna fotografija Kraljice ispred Vilijam Hila. Mislili su da je stvarna.
I was exploring, at the time, the hyperbole of icons -- and Diana and Marilyn -- and the importance of celebrity in our lives. How they wheedle their way into the collective psyche without us even knowing, and how that should happen. I explored with actually dressing up as the celebrities myself. There's me as Diana -- I look like the mass murderer Myra Hindley, I think, in this one. (Laughter). And me as the Queen. I then continued on to make a whole body of work about Marilyn -- the biggest icon of all -- and trying to titillate by shooting through doorways and shutters and so on and so forth, and only showing certain angles to create a reality that, obviously, is completely constructed. This is the look-alike, so the crafting elements of this is completely enormous. She looks nothing like Marilyn, but by the time we've made her up and put wigs and makeup on, she looks exactly like Marilyn, to the extent that her husband couldn't recognize her -- or recognize this look-alike -- in these photographs, which I find quite interesting. So, all this work is getting shown in art galleries. Then I made a book. I was also making a TV series for the BBC at the time. Stills from the TV series went into this book.
Istraživala sam, u to vreme, hiperbolu ikona, i Dajanu i Merilin i važnost slave u našim životima. Kako su pronašle svoj put u kolektivnu svest bez našeg znanja, i kako to treba da se dogodi. Istraživala sam zapravo i oblačeći se kao poznate ličnosti. Ovo sam ja kao Dajana. Mislim da na ovoj izgledam kao masovni ubica Majra Henli. (smeh). I ja kao Kraljica. Nastavila sam onda da radim čitav projekat o Marilin, najvećoj od svih ikona. I pokušavala da zagolicam snimajući kroz ulaze i žaluzine i tako dalje. I pokazujući samo određene uglove da bi stvorila realnost koja je, očigledno, potpuno konstruisana. Ovo je osoba koja liči na nju, tako da je sklapanje ovih elemanata strašno veliko. Ona ni malo ne izgleda kao Merilin. Ali kada smo je sredili i kada smo stavili periku i šminku, ona u potpunosti izgleda kao Merilin, toliko da je čak ni njen muž nije prepoznao, ili da prepozna da je ona imitator, na ovim fotografija, što smatram vrlo zanimljivim. Dakle, sav ovaj rad se prikazuje u umetničkim galerijama. Onda sam napravila knjigu. Takođe sam pravila TV serije za BBC u ono vreme. Fotografije iz serija su ušle u ovu knjigu.
But there was a real legal problem because it looks real, but how do you get over that? Because obviously it's making a comment about our culture right now: that we can't tell what's real. How do we know when we're looking at something whether it's real or not? So, from my point of view, it's important to publish it, but at the same time it does cause a confusion -- intentional on my behalf, but problematic for any outlet that I'm working with. So a big disclaimer is put on everything that I do, and I made narratives about all the European or Brit celebrities and comments about our public figures. You know, what does Tony Blair get up to in private with his fashion guru? And also dealing with the perceptions that are put about Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, the links that were put about pre-Iraq war. And what is going to happen to the monarchy? Because obviously the British public, I think, would prefer William to Charles on the throne.
Ali postojao je zaista veliki pravni problem jer je izgledalo stvarno, ali kako preći preko toga? Jer očigledno komentariše našu trenutnu kulturu, da ne možemo da kažemo šta je stvarnost. Kako da znamo, kada gledamo u nešto, da li je stvarno ili ne? Sa moje tačke gledišta, važno je to objaviti, ali istovremeno stvara konfuziju -- namerno sa moje strane - ali problematično za bilo koga sa kim radim. Veliko odricanje prava je vezano za sve što radim, i napravila sam neku vrstu priče o svim evropskim i britanskim zvezdama i komentare o našim javnim ličnostima. Znate, šta Toni Bler radi privatno sa svojim modnim guruom? Baveći se takođe percepcijom Bin Ladena, Sadama Huseina, linkovima koji su postavljeni pre rata u Iraku. I šta će se dogoditi sa kraljevinom jer očigledno britanska javnost, mislim, bi radije Vilijama nego Čarlsa na prestolu.
And it's that wish, or that desire, that I suppose I'm dealing with in my work. I'm not really interested in the celebrity themselves. I'm interested in the perception of the celebrity. And with some look-alikes, they are so good you don't know whether they're real or not.
I ono što oni žele ili ono za čim čeznu, je ono čime se, pretpostavljam bavim u svom radu. Ja nisam zainteresovana za slavne. Zanima me percepcija slavnih. I sa onima koji na njih podsećaju, oni su tako dobri. Ne znate da li su stvarni ili ne.
I did an advertising campaign for Schweppes, which is Coca-Cola, and so that was very interesting in terms of the legalities. It's highly commercial. But it was a difficulty for me -- because this is my artwork; should I do advertising? -- at the time. So I made sure the work was not compromised in any way and that the integrity of the work remained the same. But the meanings changed in the sense that with the logo on, you're closing all the lines of interpretation down to selling a product and that's all you're doing. When you take the logo off, you're opening up the interpretations and making the work inconclusive, opposed to conclusive when you are advertising.
Uradila sam reklamnu kampanju za Šveps, što je Koka - Kola, i to je bilo vrlo zanimljivo u pravnom smislu. Visoko je komercijalna. Ali bilo je teško za mene jer je to moj umetnički rad. Da li da radim reklame, u to vreme? Pobrinula sam se da rad ne bude ni na koji način kompromitovan, i da integritet rada ostane isti. Ali značenje se promenilo, u smislu da sa logom, zatvarate sve puteve interpretacije na prodaju proizvoda - i to je sve što radite. Kada skinete logo, otvarate interpretacije i činite rad nezaključivim. Nasuprot zaključivom, kada se reklamirate.
This image is quite interesting, actually, because I think we made it three years ago. And it's Camilla in her wedding dress, which, again, nearly got re-used now, recently prior to her wedding. Tony Blair and Cherie. And again, the legalities -- we had to be very careful. It's obviously a very big commercial company, and so this little, "Shh -- it's not really them," was put on the side of the imagery. And Margaret Thatcher visiting Jeffery Archer in jail.
Ova fotografija je prilično zanimljiva ustvari, zato što mislim da smo je napravili pre tri godine, i to je Kamila u njenoj venčanici, koja je, ponovo, nedavno ponovo iskorišćena, neposredno pre njenog venčanja. Toni Bler i Čeri. I opet, prava - morali smo da budemo vrlo obazrivi. Bila je to očigledno velika reklamna kampanja i uradili smo tu malu "Pssst .... znate da to nisu stvarno oni" stvaljeno je sa strane fotografije. I Margaret Tačer kako posećuje Džefrija Arčera u zatvoru.
I then was asked by Selfridges to do a series of windows for them, so I built a sauna bath in one of their windows and created little scenes -- live scenes with look-alikes inside the windows, and the windows were all steamed up. So, it's Tony Blair reading and practicing his speech; I've got them doing yoga inside there with Carole Caplin; Sven making out with Ulrika Jonsson, who he was having an affair with at that time. This was a huge success for them because the imagery got shown in the press the day after in every single newspaper, broadsheets and tabloids. It was a bit of a road stopper, which was problematic because the police kept on trying to clear away the crowds, but huge fun -- it was great for me to do a performance. Also, people were taking photographs of this, so it was being texted around the world extremely quickly, all this imagery. And the press were interviewing, and I was signing my book. (Laughter).
"Selfridžis" me je potom angažovao da uradim seriju izloga za njih. Izgradila sam saunu u jednom od njihovih izloga i napravila male scene - žive scene sa imitatorima u izlogu, a prozori su bili zamagljeni. Tako je Toni Bler čitao i vežbao svoj govor. Radili su jogu unutra sa Kerol Kaplin, Sven se ljubio sa Ulrikom Džonson, sa kojom je imao aferu u to vreme. Ovo je bio ogroman uspeh za njih jer je postavka prikazana u štampi dan posle u svim novinama, časopisima i tabloidima. Stvaralo je to pomalo zastoj u saobraćaju, što je bilo problematično jer je policija pokušavala da raščisti gužvu. Ali velika zabava - bilo je sjajno za mene da radim performans. Takođe, ljudi su ovo fotografisali, tako je ova postavka bila poslata širom sveta vrlo brzo. I štampa je intervjuisala, ja sam potpisivala knjigu. (smeh).
Further imagery. I'm making a new book now with Taschen that I'm working on really for a sort of global market -- my previous book was only for the U.K. market -- that I suppose it could be called humorous. I suppose I come from a sort of non-humorous background with serious intent, and then suddenly my work is funny. And I think it doesn't really matter that my work is considered humorous, in a way; I think it's a way in for me to deal with the importance of imagery and how we read all our information through imagery. It's an extremely fast way of getting information. It's extremely difficult if it's constructed correctly, and there are techniques of constructing iconic imagery.
Sledeće fotografije: Ja pravim novu knjigu sa "Taschen", sa kojim radim na globalnom tržištu. Moja prethodna knjiga je bila samo za britansko tržište. Ali pretpostavljam da bi se moglo nazvati smešnim. Pretpostavljam da dolazim iz ne-humorističkog okruženja, znate, sa ozbiljnim namerama. I odjednom moj rad je smešan. I mislim da nije važno da li je moj rad smatran smešnim, na neki način - mislim da je za mene to način da se bavim važnošću slika, i kako čitamo sve informacije preko slika. To je ekstremno brz način prikupljanja informacija. Vrlo je teško ako je pravilno postavljeno, i postoje tehnike pravljenja imidža ikone.
This image, for example, is sort of spot-on because it exactly sums up what Elton may be doing in private, and also what might be happening with Saddam Hussein, and George Bush reading the Koran upside-down. For example, George Bush target practice -- shooting at Bin Laden and Michael Moore. And then you change the photograph he's shooting at, and it suddenly becomes rather grim and maybe less accessible. (Laughter). Tony Blair being used as a mounting block, and Rumsfeld and Bush laughing with some Abu Ghraib photos behind, and the seriousness, or the intellect, of Bush. And also, commenting on the behind the scenes -- well, as we know now -- what goes on in prisons. And in fact, George Bush and Tony Blair are having great fun during all of this.
Mislim ova slika, na primer, je neka vrsta primera jer tačno sumira ono što bi Elton mogao da radi privatno, i takođe šta bi moglo da se događa sa Sadamom Huseinom, i Džrodž Buš koji čita Kuran naopako. Na primer, Džordž Bušov trening gađanja, puca u Bin Ladena i Majkla Mura. I onda promenite fotografiju u koju puca, i odjednom postane prilično sumorna i možda manje pristupačna. (smeh) Toni Bler iskorišćen kao blok za montiranje. I Ramsfeld i Buš kako se smeju sa nekim fotografijama iz Abu Graiba iza, i ozbiljnost ili intelekt, Buša. I komentarišu događaje iza scene, kao što svi znamo sada, šta se dešava u zatvorima. I ustvari Džordž Buš i Toni Bler se dobro zabavaljaju za vreme svega ovoga.
And really commenting, you know, based on the perception we have of the celebrities. What Jack Nicholson might be up to in his celebrity life, and the fact that he tried to ... he had a bit of road rage and golf-clubbed a driver the other day. I mean, it's extremely difficult to find these look-alikes, so I'm constantly going up to people in the street and trying to ask people to come and be in one of my photographs or films. And sometimes asking the real celebrity, mistaking them for someone who just looks like the real person, which is highly embarrassing. (Laughter).
I stvarno komentarišu, znate, zasnovano na našoj percepciji slavnih, šta bi Džek Nikolson mogao raditi u svom slavnom životu. I činjenica da je pokušao, imao je malo tog drumskog besa, i tukao je vozača golf palicom pre neki dan. Mislim, veoma je teško naći ove imitatore, tako da stalno prilazim ljudima na ulici i poušavam da pitam ljude da dođu i budu na jednoj od mojih fotografija ili u filmu. I ponekad pitam pravu zvezdu, greškom ih mešajući sa nekim ko samo liči na pravu osobu, što je vrlo neprijatno. (smeh).
I've also been working with The Guardian on a topical basis -- a page a week in their newspaper -- which has been very interesting, working topically. So, Jamie Oliver and school dinners; Bush and Blair having difficulty getting alongside Muslim culture; the whole of the hunting issue, and the royal family refusing to stop hunting; and the tsunami issues; and obviously Harry; Blair's views on Gordon Brown, which I find very interesting; Condi and Bush. This image I've decided to show having a reservation about it. I made it a year ago. And just how meanings change, and there were a terrible thing that has happened, but the fear is lurking around in our minds prior to that. That's why this image was made one year ago, and what it means today. So, I'll leave you with these clips to have a look. (Music)
Takođe radim sa "Gardijanom" na aktuelnim temama - stranica nedeljno u njihovim novinama - što je vrlo zanimljivo, raditi na aktuelnostima. Dakle, Džejmi Oliver i školske menze; Buš i Bler imaju poteškoće da se slože sa muslimanskom kulturom; čitav problem oko lova, i kraljevske porodice koja odbija da prestane sa lovom. I cunami teme. I očigledno Hari. Blerov pogled na Gordona Brauna, što smatram vrlo zanimljivim. Kondi i Buš. Ovu sliku, odlučila sam da prikažem, sa određenom rezervom. Napravila sam je pre godinu dana - i kako se značenje menja, i strašna stvar se dogodila. Ali strah vreba u našim umovima pre toga. Zato je ova slika napravljena pre godinu dana. I šta znači danas. Ostaviću vas da pogledate ove snimke.
Chris Anderson: Thank you.
Kris Anderson: Hvala vam.