Okay, this morning I'm speaking on the question of corruption. And corruption is defined as the abuse of a position of trust for the benefit of yourself -- or, in the case of our context, your friends, your family or your financiers. Okay? Friends, family and financiers. But we need to understand what we understand about corruption, and we need to understand that we have been miseducated about it, and we have to admit that. We have to have the courage to admit that to start changing how we deal with it.
OK, ovog jutra ću govoriti o problemu korupcije. A korupcija se definiše kao zloupotreba poverenja zbog sopstvene koristi - ili u našem kontekstu, vaših prijatelja, porodice ili vaših ulagača. U redu? Prijatelji, porodica, ulagači. Ali moramo razumeti šta mi podrazumevamo pod korupcijom i moramo razumeti da smo pogrešno učeni o tome i moramo priznati to. Moramo imati hrabrosti da priznamo to, kako bismo počeli da menjamo naš pristup ka tome.
The first thing is that the big myth, number one, is that in fact it's not really a crime. When we get together with friends and family and we discuss crime in our country, crime in Belmont or crime in Diego or crime in Marabella, nobody's speaking about corruption. That's the honest truth. When the Commissioner of Police comes on TV to talk about crime, he isn't speaking about corruption. And we know for sure when the Minister of National Security is speaking about crime, he's not talking about corruption either. The point I'm making is that it is a crime. It is an economic crime, because we're involving the looting of taxpayers' money. Public and private corruption is a reality. As somebody who comes from the private sector, I can tell you there's a massive amount of corruption in the private sector that has nothing to do with government. The same bribes and backhanders and things that take place under the table, it all takes place in the private sector. Today, I'm focusing on public sector corruption, which the private sector also participates in.
Prva stvar je zapravo veliki mit, pod jedan, da to zapravo nije krivično delo. Kada se okupimo sa prijateljima i porodicom i raspravljamo o kriminalu u našoj zemlji, kriminalu u Belmontu ili criminal u Dijegu ili kriminalu u Marabeli, niko ne govori o korupciji. To je prava istina. Kada komesar policije na TV-u govori o kriminalu, on ne priča o korupciji. A zasigurno znamo da kada Ministar nacionalne sigurnosti govori o kriminalu, takođe ne govori o korupciji. Poenta jeste da je to zapravo krivično delo. U pitanju je privredni kriminal, jer podrazumeva pljačkanje poreskih obveznika. Javna i privatna korupcija su realnost. Kao neko ko dolazi iz privatnog sektora, mogu vam reći da u privatnom sektoru postoji veliki stepen korupcije koji nema nikakve veze sa vlašću. Ista podmićivanja, mito i poslovanja ispod stola, dešavaju se i u privatnom sektoru. Danas ću se fokusirati na korupciju u javnom sektoru,
The second important myth to understand -- because we have to destroy these myths, dismantle them and destroy them and ridicule them -- the second important myth to understand is the one that says that in fact corruption is only a small problem -- if it is a problem, it's only a small problem, that in fact it's only a little 10 or 15 percent, it's been going on forever, it probably will continue forever, and there's no point passing any laws, because there's little we can do about it. And I want to demonstrate that that, too, is a dangerous myth, very dangerous. It's a piece of public mischief.
u kojem učestvuje i privatni sektor. Drugi važan mit koji je potrebno razumeti - jer moramo razbiti ove mitove, razmontirati, uništiti ih i rugati im se - drugi važan mit koji je potrebno razumeti je onaj koji kaže da je korupcija zapravo mali problem - da ako je problem, u stvari je mali problem, da zapravo čini samo malih 10 ili 15 posto, da postoji od davnina i da će se verovatno nastaviti i u budućnosti i da nema nikakvog smisla usvajati zakone, jer zapravo ne možemo mnogo šta učiniti. I želim da demonstriram da je i to opasan mit, veoma opasan.
And I want to speak a little bit, take us back about 30 years. We're coming out today from Trinidad and Tobago, a resource-rich, small Caribbean country, and in the early 1970s we had a massive increase in the country's wealth, and that increase was caused by the increase in world oil prices. We call them petrodollars. The treasury was bursting with money. And it's ironic, because we're standing today in the Central Bank. You see, history's rich in irony. We're standing today in the Central Bank, and the Central Bank is responsible for a lot of the things I'm going to be speaking about. Okay? We're talking about irresponsibility in public office. We're speaking about the fact that across the terrace, the next tower is the Ministry of Finance, and there's a lot of connection with us today, so we're speaking within your temple today. Okay?
To je lažno predstavljanje stvari u javnosti. I želim da kažem nešto, o periodu 30 godina unazad. Mi smo danas Trinidad i Tobago, mala karipska zemlja, bogata resursima i početkom '70-ih došlo je do velikog porasta u bogatstvu zemlje, što je prouzrokovano porastom svetske cene nafte. Zovemo ih petrodolarima. Državna kasa je pucala od količine novca. Što je ironično jer se danas nalazimo u Centralnoj banci. Vidite, istorija je bogata ironijom. Danas se nalazimo u Centralnoj banci, a Centralna banka je odgovorna za mnoge stvari o kojima ću danas pričati. OK? Govorimo o neodgovornosti državne administracije. Govorimo o činjenici da je preko puta terase kula Ministarstva finansija, i postoji velika veza sa nama danas,
(Applause)
pa pričamo unutar vašeg hrama danas. Ok?
The first thing I want to talk about is that when all of this money flowed into our country about 40 years ago, we embarked, the government of the day embarked on a series of government-to-government arrangements to have rapidly develop the country. And some of the largest projects in the country were being constructed through government-to-government arrangements with some of the leading countries in the world, the United States and Britain and France and so on and so on. As I said, even this building we're standing in -- that's one of the ironies -- this building was part of that series of complexes, what they called the Twin Towers. It became so outrageous, the whole situation, that in fact a commission of inquiry was appointed, and it reported in 1982, 30 years ago it reported -- the Ballah Report -- 30 years ago, and immediately the government-to-government arrangements were stopped. The then-Prime Minister went to Parliament to give a budget speech, and he said some things that I'll never forget. They went right in here. I was a young man at the time. It went right into my heart. And he said that, in fact — Let me see if this thing works. Are we getting a, yeah?— That's what he told us. He told us that, in fact, two out of every three dollars of our petrodollars that we spent, the taxpayers' money, was wasted or stolen. So the 10 or 15 percent is pure mischief. As we say, it's a nancy-story. Forget it. That's for little children. We are big people, and we're trying to deal with what's happening in our society. Okay? This is the size of the problem. Okay? Two thirds of the money stolen or wasted. That was 30 years ago. 1982 was Ballah.
(Aplauz) Prva stvar o kojoj želim da govorim jeste da kad se sav taj novac slio u našu zemlju pre oko 40 godina upustili smo se, tadašnja vlada se upustila u niz aranžmana sa drugim vladama kako bi ubrzano razvili zemlju. I neki od najvećih projekata u zemlji su bili dogovoreni u saradnji sa drugim vladama, sa nekim od vodećih zemalja na svetu, Sjedinjenim državama, Britanijom, Francuskom i ostalim. Kao što sam rekao, čak i ova zgrada - to je jedna od ironija - ova zgrada je bila deo niza velikih kompleksa, koji su zvali Kulama bliznakinjama. Cela situacija je postala toliko sramna, da je zapravo formirana istražna komisija, koja je izvestila 1982, pre 30 godina je izvestila - Balah izveštaj - pre 30 godina i odmah su aranžmani saradnje sa drugim vladama stopirani. Tadašnji premijer je otišao u Parlament kako bi izvestio o budžetu i rekao je neke stvari koje nikad neću zaboraviti. Zadržale su se ovde. Bio sam mladić u to vreme. Reči su ušle pravo u moje srce. I rekao je da u stvari - samo da vidim da li ovo radi. Sve u redu? Ovo nam je rekao. Rekao nam je da su u stvari, 2 od svaka 3 naša petrodolara koje smo potrošili, novac poreskih obveznika, protraćena ili ukradena. Tako da je tih 10 ili 15 posto prava laž. Rekli smo, to je bajka. Zaboravi. To je za malu decu. Mi smo odrasli ljudi i pokušavamo da se nosimo sa ovim šta se dešava u našem društvu. OK? To je veličina problema. OK? Dve trećine novca je ukradeno ili protraćeno.
So what has changed? I don't like to bring up embarrassing secrets to an international audience, but I have to. Four months ago, we suffered a constitutional outrage in this country. We call it the Section 34 fiasco, the Section 34 fiasco, a suspicious piece of law, and I'm going to say it like it is, a suspicious piece of law was passed at a suspicious time to free some suspects. (Laughter) And it was called, those people are called the Piarco Airport accused. I'm going to have my own lexicon speaking here today. They are the Piarco Airport accused. It was a constitutional outrage of the first order, and I have labeled it the Plot to Pervert Parliament. Our highest institution in our country was perverted. We are dealing with perverts here of an economic and financial nature. Do you get how serious this problem is? There was massive protest. A lot of us in this room took part in the protest in different forms. Most importantly, the American embassy complained, so Parliament was swiftly reconvened, and the law was reversed, it was repealed. That's the word lawyers use. It was repealed. But the point is that Parliament was outwitted in the whole course of events, because what really happened is that, because of the suspicious passage of that law, the law was actually passed into effect on the weekend we celebrated our 50th anniversary of independence, our jubilee of independence. So that is the kind of outrage of the thing. It was kind of a nasty way to get maturation, but we got it, because we all understood it, and for the first time that I could remember, there were mass protests against this corruption. And that gave me a lot of hope. Okay? Those of us who are, sometimes you feel like you're a little bit on your own doing some of this work. That passage of the law and the repeal of the law fortified the case of the Piarco Airport accused. So it was one of those really superior double bluff kind of things that took place.
To je bilo pre 30 godina. 1982. je bio Balah. Šta se promenilo? Ne volim da iznosim sramotne tajne pred međunarodnom publikom, ali moram. Pre četiri meseca pretrpeli smo ustavnu sramotu u ovoj zemlji. Zovemo je fijasko Odeljka 34, fijasko Odeljka 34, sumnjivi zakon i reći ću kako zapravo stoje stvari, sumnjivi zakon koji je usvojen u sumnjivo vreme da bi se oslobodili određeni osumnjičeni. (Smeh) I zvali su ih, ti ljudi se zovu "optuženi Piarko aerodroma". Imaću sopstveni rečnik ovde danas. Oni su "optuženi Piarko aerodroma". Bila je to ustavna sramota prvog stepena i ja sam je označio kao zaveru da se izopači parlament. Naša najviša institucija u zemlji bila je izopačena. Radimo sa izopačenim ljudima ovde ekonomske i finansijske prirode. Shvatate koliko je ozbiljan problem? Došlo je do masovnog protesta. Puno ljudi u ovoj prostoriji je učestvovalo u tom protestu na različite načine. A najvažnije, američka ambasada se žalila, pa je parlament ponovo sazvan i zakon je promenjen, bio je ukinut. To je termin koji pravnici koriste. Bio je ukinut. Ali poenta je da je parlament nadmudren u celoj stvari, jer ono što se u stvari desilo jeste, zbog sumnjivog usvajanja zakona, zakon je zapravo stupio na snagu za vikend kad smo slavili 50. godišnjicu nezavisnosti, naš jubilej nezavisnosti. To je zapravo sramota cele stvari. Bio je to gnusan način da sazrimo, ali smo uspeli, jer smo svi shvatili i po prvi put od kad sam mogao da se setim, došlo je do masovnih protesta protiv ove korupcije. I to mi je dalo puno nade. OK? Ponekad se osećaš kao da si sam i da sve to radiš sam. Usvajanje i kasnije ukidanje tog zakona potvrdio je slučaj "optuženih Piarko aerodroma".
But what were they accused of? What was it that they were accused of? I'm being a bit mysterious for those of you out there. What were they accused of? We were trying to build, or reconstruct largely, an airport that had grown outdated. The entire project cost about 1.6 billion dollars, Trinidad and Tobago dollars, and in fact, we had a lot of bid-rigging and suspicious activity, corrupt activity took place. And to get an idea of what it consisted of, and to put it in context in relationship to this whole second myth about it being no big thing, we can look at this second slide here. And what we have here -- I am not saying so, this is the Director of Public Prosecutions in a written statement. He said so. And he's telling us that for the $1.6 billion cost of the project, one billion dollars has been traced to offshore bank accounts. One billion dollars of our taxpayers' money has been located in offshore bank accounts.
Tako da je to zapravo bio dupli blef, ta situacija do koje je došlo. Ali zašto su oni bili optuženi? Šta je to bilo da su bili optuženi? Malo sam misteriozan za vas koji ste ovde. Zašto su bili optuženi? Pokušali smo da izgradimo ili da u velikom delu rekonstruišemo zastareli aerodrom. Ceo projekat je koštao 1,6 milijardi dolara, Trinidad i Tobago dolara, i u stvari imali smo dosta nameštanja ponuda, sumnjivih aktivnosti, koruptivnih aktivnosti. I da biste dobili celu sliku, i sve to stavili u kontekst i vezu sa drugim mitom da to nije velika stvar, možemo da pogledamo drugi slajd ovde. I šta imamo ovde - to ne kažem ja, ovo su reči direktora Javnog tužilaštva u njegovom izveštaju. On je tako rekao. I kaže nam da je od projekta vrednog 1,6 milijardi dolara jedna milijarda pronađena na računima ofšor banaka. Jedna milijarda novca poreskih obveznika
Being the kind of suspicious person I am, I am outraged at that, and I'm going to pause here, I'm going to pause now and again and bring in different things. I'm going to pause here and bring in something I saw in November last year at Wall Street. I was at Zuccotti Park. It was autumn. It was cool. It was damp. It was getting dark. And I was walking around with the protesters looking at the One Wall Street, Occupy Wall Street movement walking around. And there was a lady with a sign, a very simple sign, a kind of battered-looking blonde lady, and the sign was made out of Bristol board, as we say in these parts, and it was made with a marker. And what it said on that sign hit me right in the center. It said, "If you're not outraged, you haven't been paying attention." If you're not outraged by all of this, you haven't been paying attention. So listen up, because we're getting into even deeper waters.
je pronađena na računima ofšor banaka. Kako sam inače sumnjičava osoba, zgrožen sam time, i napraviću pauzu ovde, napraviću pauzu s vremena na vreme i istaknuti različite stvari. Napraviću pauzu ovde i podeliti nešto što sam video novembra prošle godine na Vol stritu. Bio sam u Zukoti parku. Bila je jesen i bilo je hladno. Vlažno je bilo i padao je mrak. Šetao sam sa ljudima koji su protestovali posmatrajući One Wall Street, Occupy Wall Street pokret. I video sam gospođu sa natpisom, jednostavnim, nekako izmučena plava gospođa, natpis je bio od kartona i bio je ispisan markerom. I ono što je bilo napisano me je pogodilo do srži. Pisalo je: ''Ako nisi zaprepašćen, nisi obraćao pažnju.'' Ako te sve ovo nije zaprepastilo, nisi obraćao pažnju.
My brain started thinking. Well, what if -- because I'm suspicious like that. I read a lot of spy novels and stuff. What if -- (Laughter) But to make it in these wrongs, you have to read a lot of spy novels and follow some of that stuff, right? (Laughter) But what if this wasn't the first time? What if this is just the first time that the so-and-sos had been caught? What if it had happened before? How would I find out? Now, the previous two examples I gave were to do with construction sector corruption, okay? And I have the privilege at this time to lead the Joint Consultative Council, which is a not-for-profit. We're at jcc.org.tt, and we have the -- we are the leaders in the struggle to produce a new public procurement system about how public money is transacted. So those of you interested in finding out more about it, or joining us or signing up on any of our petitions, please get involved.
Slušajte sad, jer ulazimo u dublje vode. Moj mozak je počeo da razmišlja. Šta ako - jer sam sumnijičav inače. Čitam dosta špijunskih romana. Šta ako - (Smeh) Ali da biste uspeli u ovom zlodelu, morate da čitate dosta takvih romana, i ispratite neke od tih stvari, zar ne? (Smeh) Ali šta ako ovo nije bilo prvi put? Šta ako je to samo prvi put da su taj i taj uhvaćeni? Šta ako se desilo ranije? Kako bih inače to saznao? Prethodna dva primera koja sam dao su se odnosila na korupciju u građevinskom sektoru, OK? Ja sad imam privilegiju da vodim neprofitnu organizaciju zvanu Savet zajedničke inicijative. Naš sajt je jcc.org.tt, i mi smo lideri u borbi za izgradnju novog sistema javnih nabavki i toga kako se javni novac koristi. Za one od vas koji su zainteresovani da saznaju više o tome ili da nam se pridruže ili potpišu neku od naših peticija,
But I'm going to segue to another thing that relates, because one of my private campaigns I've been conducting for over three and a half years is for transparency and accountability around the bailout of CL Financial. CL Financial is the Caribbean's largest ever conglomerate, okay? And without getting into all of the details, it is said to have collapsed — I'm using my words very carefully — it's said to have collapsed in January of '09, which is just coming up to nearly four years. In an unprecedented fit of generosity -- and you have to be very suspicious about these people -- in an unprecedented — and I'm using that word carefully — unprecedented fit of generosity, the government of the day signed, made a written commitment, to repay all of the creditors. And I can tell you without fear of contradiction that hasn't happened anywhere else on the planet. Let's understand, because we lack context. People are telling us it's just like Wall Street. It's not just like Wall Street. Trinidad and Tobago is like a place with different laws of physics or biology or something. It's not just like anywhere. (Applause) It's not just like anywhere. It's not just like anywhere. Here is here, and out there is out there. Okay? I'm serious now. Listen. They've had bailouts on Wall Street. They've had bailouts in London. They've had bailouts in Europe. In Africa, they've had bailouts. In Nigeria, six of the major commercial banks collapsed at the same time as ours, eh? It's interesting to parallel how the Nigerian experience has -- how they've treated it, and they've treated it very well compared to us. Nowhere on the planet have all the creditors been bailed out in excess of what their statutory entitlements were. Only here. So what was the reason for the generosity? Is our government that generous? And maybe they are. Let's look at it. Let's look into it.
molim vas da se uključite. Ali preći ću na drugu sličnu temu, zbog jedne od mojih privatnih kampanja, koju vodim već više od tri i po godine i koja se odnosi na transparentnost i odgovornost vezane za spasavanje od bankrota kompanije CL Fajnenšl. CL Fajnenšel je najveći karipski konglomerat svih vremena, ok? I bez ulaženja u sve detalje, navodno je propao - biram svoje reči vrlo pažljivo - navodno je propao u januaru 2009. godine, što je sada već skoro četiri godine. U nezapamćenom izlivu velikodušnosti - a morate biti veoma sumnjičavi kad su ovi ljudi u pitanju - u nezapamćenom - koristim pažljivo ovu reč - nezapamćenom izlivu velikodušnosti, tadašnja vlada je potpisala, pismeno se obavezala da vrati sve dugove poveriocima. I mogu vam reći bez straha da budem kontradiktoran, ovo se nije desilo nigde na planeti. Da probamo da razumemo, nedostaje nam kontekst. Ljudi nam govore da je isto kao na Vol Stritu. Nije kao Vol Strit. Trinidad i Tobago je izgleda mesto sa drugačijim zakonima fizike ili biologije. Nije kao u ostalim delovima sveta. (Aplauz) Nije kao na drugim mestima sveta. Prosto nije. Ovo je ovde, a tamo je tamo. OK? Ozbiljan sam sad. Slušajte. Imali su finansijska spašavanja i na Vol Stritu. Imali su ih i u Londonu. Bilo ih je u Evropi. U Africi, bilo je finansijskih spašavanja. U Nigeriji šest najvećih banaka je doživelo kolaps u isto vreme, zar ne? Interesantno je napraviti paralelu sa nigerijskim iskustvom i kako su oni to sredili, mnogo bolje u poređenju sa nama. Nigde na planeti nisu svi poverioci isplaćeni više od onog što im je zakonski pripadalo. Samo ovde. Pa šta je bio razlog za ovu velikodušnu isplatu? Je li naša vlada toliko darežljiva? Možda i jeste.
So I started digging and writing and so and so on, and that work can be found, my personal work can be found at AfraRaymond.com, which is my name. It's a not-for-profit blog that I run. Not as popular as some of the other people, but there you go. (Laughter) But the point is that the bitter experience of Section 34, that plot to pervert Parliament, that bitter experience that took place in August, when we were supposed to be celebrating our independence, going into September, forced me to check myself and recalculate my bearings, and to go back into some of the work, some of the stuff I'd written and some of the exchanges I'd had with the officials to see what was really what. As we say in Trinidad and Tobago, who is who and what is what? Okay? We want to try to recalculate.
Hajde da vidimo. Počeo da istažujem i da pišem i taj ceo posao možete naći na sajtu AfraRaymond.com, što je moje ime. Neprofitni blog koji pišem. Nije tako popularan kao od nekih ljudi, ali šta da radim. (Smeh) Ali poenta je da me je to gorko iskustvo Odeljka 34, zavere da se opstruira Parlament, to gorko iskustvo koje se dogodilo u avgustu, kada smo trebali da proslavimo našu nezavisnost, nateralo da u septembru promislim, da revidiram moj stav, i vratim se na stvari koje sam napisao, i razmenu koju sam imao sa zvaničnicima i da vidim o čemu se zapravo radi. Kako kažemo kod nas, da vidim ko je ko i šta je šta?
And I made a Freedom of Information application in May this year to the Ministry of Finance. The Ministry of Finance is the next tower over. This is the other context. The Ministry of Finance, we are told, is subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act. I'm going to take you through a worked example of whether that's really so. The Central Bank in which we stand this morning is immune from the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act. So in fact, you can't ask them anything, and they don't have to answer anything. That is the law since 1999.
OK? Želimo da se preračunamo. I podneo sam zahtev u skladu sa Zakonom o slobodi informacija Ministarstvu finansija, u maju ove godine. Ministarstvo finansija je sledeća kula pored. To je drugi kontekst. Kako nam je rečeno, Ministarstvo finansija podleže odredbama Zakona o slobodnom pristupu informacijama. Provešću vas kroz primer da li je to zapravo tako. Centralna banka u kojoj se jutros nalazimo je izuzeta od odredbi Zakona o slobodnom pristupu informacijama. Tako da ih možete pitati bilo šta, a oni ne moraju da vam odgovore.
So I plunged into this struggle, and I asked four questions. And I'll relate the questions to you in the short form with the reply, so you could understand, as I said, where we are. Here is not like anywhere else.
Ovaj zakon je na snazi od 1999. godine. Ipak sam ušao u borbu i postavio četiri pitanja. Predstaviću vam pitanja ukratko, zajedno sa odgovorom, kako biste mogli razumeti, kao što sam rekao, gde se nalazimo.
Question number one: I asked to see the accounts of CL Financial, and if you can't show me the accounts -- the Minister of Finance is making statements, passing new laws and giving speeches and so on. What are the figures he's relying on? It's like that joke: I want whatever he's drinking. And they wrote back and said to me, well what do you really mean? So they hit my question with a question.
Ovde nije kao na drugim mestima. Prvo pitanje: tražio sam da vidim račune firme CL Fajnenšel, a ako ne možete da mi pokažete račune - ministar finansija daje izjave, usvaja zakone, drži govore, itd. Na koje se brojke on zapravo oslanja? To je kao onaj vic: uzeću ono što on pije. I odgovorili su mi, na šta zapravo mislite?
Second point: I want to see who are the creditors of the group who have been repaid? Let me pause here to point out to you all that 24 billion dollars of our money has been spent on this. That is about three and a half billion U.S. dollars coming out of a small -- we used to be resource-rich -- Caribbean country. Okay? And I asked the question, who was getting that three and a half billion dollars?
Odgovorili su na moje pitanje, pitanjem. Druga tačka: želim da vidim ko su poverioci grupe koja je bila isplaćena? Napraviću pauzu da bih vam rekao da je 24 milijarde dolara našeg novca bilo potrošeno na ovo. To je otprilike oko tri i po milijarde američkih dolara male karipske zemlje, nekad bogate resursima. OK? I postavio sam pitanje,
And I want to pause again to bring up context, because context helps us to get clarity understanding this thing. There's a particular individual who is in the government now. The name of the person doesn't matter. And that person made a career out of using the Freedom of Information Act to advance his political cause. Okay? His name isn't important. I wouldn't dignify it. I'm on a point. The point is, that person made a career out of using the Freedom of Information Act to advance his cause. And the most famous case was what we came to call the Secret Scholarship Scandal, where in fact there was about 60 million dollars in government money that had been dispersed in a series of scholarships, and the scholarships hadn't been advertised, and so and so on and so on. And he was able to get the court, using that act of Parliament, Freedom of Information Act, to release the information, and I thought that was excellent. Fantastic. But you see, the question is this: If it's right and proper for us to use the Freedom of Information Act and to use the court to force a disclosure about 60 million dollars in public money, it must be right and proper for us to force a disclosure about 24 billion dollars. You see? But the Ministry of Finance, the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance, wrote me and said to me, that information is exempt too. You see? This is what we're dealing with, okay?
ko dobija te tri i po milijarde dolara? Želim opet da napravim pauzu da stavim stvari u kontekst, jer nam on pomaže da jasnije razumemo stvari. Postoji jedna osoba koja je trenutno u vladi. Ime te osobe nije bitno. I ta osoba je napravila karijeru koristeći Zakon o slobodnom pristupu informacijama, kako bi politčki napredovao. OK? Njegovo ime nije bitno. Ne zaslužuje da se imenuje. Želim da napravim poentu. Poenta jeste, da je ta osoba napravila karijeru koristeći Zakon o slobodnom pristupu informacijama radi sopstvenog napretka. I najpoznatiji slučaj je bio kad smo razotkrili skandal skivenih školarina, gde se zapravo oko 60 miliona dolara državnog novca delilo na različite školarine, koje nisu ni bile javno objavljene, itd. I on je uspeo da dođe do suda, koristeći taj zakon, Zakon o slobodnom pristupu informacijama, da objavi sve te informacije i ja sam pomislio kako je to odlično. Fantastično. Ali vidite, pitanje je ovo: ako mi možemo da se pozivamo na Zakon o slobodnom pristupu informacijama i da koristimo sud kako bi se razotkrilo korišćenje oko 60 miliona državnog novca, trebalo bi da možemo da razotkrijemo korišćenje te 24 milijarde dolara. Vidite? Ali Ministarstvo finansija, Stalni sekretar Ministarstva finansija, mi je odgovorio da je ta informacija takođe izuzeta od objavljivanja.
The third thing I will tell you is that I also asked for the directors of CL Financial, whether in fact they were making filings under our Integrity in Public Life Act. We have an Integrity in Public Life Act as part of our framework supposed to safeguard the nation's interest. And public officials are supposed to file to say what it is they have in terms of assets and liabilities. And of course I've since discovered that they're not filing, and in fact the Minister of Finance has not even asked them to file. So here we have it. We have a situation where the basic safeguards of integrity and accountability and transparency have all been discarded. I've asked the question in the legal and required fashion. It's been ignored.
Vidite? Sa ovim imamo posla, ok? Treća stvar koju ću vam reći jeste da sam takođe pitao za direktore CL Fajnenšela, da li su u stvari davali izveštaje u skladu sa Zakonom o integritetu u javnom životu. Imamo Zakon o integritetu u javnom životu, kao deo zakonskog okvira koji treba da štiti nacionalni interes. I zvaničnici su u obavezi da podnose izveštaj o ličnoj imovini. Naravno, tad sam otkrio da to ne rade, pa čak i da Ministar finansija nije to tražio od njih. Tu smo. Imamo situaciju gde se osnovne garancije integriteta i odgovornosti i transparentnosti ne poštuju. Postavio sam pitanje na zakonski i ispravan način.
The sort of thing that motivated us around Section 34, we need to continue to work on that. We can't forget it. I have defined this as the single largest expenditure in the country's history. It's also the single largest example of public corruption according to this equation.
Ignorisano je. Ono što nas je motivisalo u vezi sa Odeljkom 34, moramo da nastavimo sa tim. Ne smemo da zaboravimo. Podveo sam ovo pod najveći trošak u istoriji zemlje. Takođe je prema ovoj jednačini, najveći primer
And this is my reality check. Where you have an expenditure of public money and it is without accountability and it's without transparency, it will always be equal to corruption, whether you're in Russia or Nigeria or Alaska, it will always be equal to corruption, and that is what we are dealing with here.
javne korupcije. A ovo je moje otvaranje očiju. Gde god da imate trošenje državnog novca bez ikakve odgovornosti na netransparentan način, biće uvek jednako korupciji, bez obzira da li živite u Rusiji, Nigeriji ili na Aljasci,
I'm going to continue the work to press on, to get some resolution of those matters at the Ministry of Finance. If it is I have to go to court personally, I will do that. We will continue to press on. We will continue to work within JCC.
uvek će biti jednako korupciji i to je ono sa čim se mi ovde nosimo. Nastaviću da radim, da vršim pritisak, kako bih dobio neke odgovore na ova pitanja od Ministarstva finansija. Ako moram ja lično da idem na sud, ići ću. Nastavićemo da vršimo pritisak.
But I want to step back from the Trinidad and Tobago context and bring something new to the table in terms of an international example. We had the journalist [Heather] Brooke speaking about her battle against government corruption, and she introduced me to this website, Alaveteli.com. And Alaveteli.com is a way for us to have an open database for Freedom of Information applications, and speak with each other. I could see what you're applying for. You could see what I applied for and what replies I got. We can work on it together. We need to build a collective database and a collective understanding of where we are to go to the next point. We need to increase the consciousness.
Nastavićemo da radimo u okviru Saveta zajedničke inicijative. Ali želim malo da izađem iz konteksta Trinidad i Tobaga i nešto novo izložim, u vidu međunarodnog primera. Bila je novinarka Heder Bruk, koja je govorila o svojoj borbi protiv državne korupcije i ona me je upoznala sa sajtom, Alaveteli.com. Alaveteli.com je način da imamo otvorenu bazu za podnošenje zahteva po osnovu Zakona o slobodnom pristupu informacijama i da pričamo jedni sa drugima. Mogu da vidim kakve zahteve podnosite. Vi možete da vidite šta sam ja podneo i koje odgovore sam dobio. Možemo da radimo zajedno na tome. Moramo da napravimo zajedničku bazu i da imamo zajednički stav gde smo i šta nam je sledeći korak.
The final thing I want to say is in relation to this one, which is a lovely website from India called IPaidABribe.com. They have international branches, and it's important for us to tune into this one. IPaidABribe.com is really important, a good one to log on to and see.
Moramo da podignemo svest. Zadnja stvar koju želim da kažem je u vezi sa ovim sajtom, jednim simpatičnim indijskim sajtom, koji se zove IPaidABribe.com. Imaju međunarodnu mrežu, i važno je za nas da se uključimo u ovo. IPaidABribe.com (dao sam mito) je vrlo važan sajt,
I'm going to pause there. I'm going to ask you for your courage. Discard the first myth; it is a crime. Discard the second myth; it is a big thing. It's a huge problem. It's an economic crime. And let us continue working together to betterment in this situation, stability and sustainability in our society. Thank you.
toliko da odete i proverite. Napraviću pauzu ovde. Tražiću od vas malo hrabrosti. Odbacite prvi mit; to jeste krivično delo. Odbacite drugi mit; to jeste velika stvar. To je veliki problem. U pitanju je privredni kriminal. I hajde da zajedno radimo, da doprinesmo